Trains in France TGV vs TER
Dec 26th, 2016, 07:48 AM
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Trains in France TGV vs TER
We are planning our trip to Europe this summer. We are going to visit our exchange student in Germany but plan on retracing my dad's WWII journey from Normandy to Paderborn, Germany. We are planning on flying to Paris to spend a couple of days and then take the train to Normandy. From Normandy we plan on going to Born, Netherlands. From there we will head to Paderborn.
We used the ICE and regional trains in Germany. We will be a group of seven with luggage. In the other posts I see the TGV trains mentioned but very little on the TER trains.
Are the trains in France as convenient as the German system or are we going to be better served with taking the train to Normandy and then renting cars to travel across France?
We used the ICE and regional trains in Germany. We will be a group of seven with luggage. In the other posts I see the TGV trains mentioned but very little on the TER trains.
Are the trains in France as convenient as the German system or are we going to be better served with taking the train to Normandy and then renting cars to travel across France?
Dec 26th, 2016, 08:00 AM
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The problem which you will have is that there are no train lines, as far as I know, that would go from Normandy to Belgium; you will have to go back to Paris. On the other hand, it would be difficult to find a vehicle for 7 plus luggage.
Dec 26th, 2016, 08:44 AM
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Dec 26th, 2016, 09:11 AM
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>>> Are the trains in France as convenient as the German system
It depends on which route your are taking the train and when. One can compare a frequent route in Germany and compare to an infrequent route in France and can claim German trains are more convenient. While another one would compare in reverse and claim that French trains are more convenient. Like never ending political dialogues, this is an unproductive discussion until specific routes are stated. Even so, how would a generality help you?
>>> We will be a group of seven with luggage. In the other posts I see the TGV trains mentioned but very little on the TER train.
German-French train type comparison
ICE = TGV
RE = TER
There is little on TER because it is a pay as you go type of train like RE. Nothing to think about buying tickets in advance. No seat to reserve.
>>> are we going to be better served with taking the train to Normandy and then renting cars to travel across France?
This again depends on your routes and what you mean by "better." Some routes are well served by trains while others are not. You don't have to wait for someone to tell you when "better" involves rental cost. You can plug in your need into any of your favorite rental car booking site and it would tell you if you rent a car as you imagined. The size of car you need depends on the amount of luggage involved which is not stated. If you travel like cruise passengers, you will need multiple cars. If you don't have multiple drivers, this plan would be dead on arrival. Cross border one way rental adds additional cost - a lot. You would also need to study up on traffic enforcement. While the traffic rules are similar across EU countries (while different from where you live), the enforcement is not. The enforcement practice you are used to at home does not apply in Europe. Many people fume after getting traffic tickets in Europe.
It depends on which route your are taking the train and when. One can compare a frequent route in Germany and compare to an infrequent route in France and can claim German trains are more convenient. While another one would compare in reverse and claim that French trains are more convenient. Like never ending political dialogues, this is an unproductive discussion until specific routes are stated. Even so, how would a generality help you?
>>> We will be a group of seven with luggage. In the other posts I see the TGV trains mentioned but very little on the TER train.
German-French train type comparison
ICE = TGV
RE = TER
There is little on TER because it is a pay as you go type of train like RE. Nothing to think about buying tickets in advance. No seat to reserve.
>>> are we going to be better served with taking the train to Normandy and then renting cars to travel across France?
This again depends on your routes and what you mean by "better." Some routes are well served by trains while others are not. You don't have to wait for someone to tell you when "better" involves rental cost. You can plug in your need into any of your favorite rental car booking site and it would tell you if you rent a car as you imagined. The size of car you need depends on the amount of luggage involved which is not stated. If you travel like cruise passengers, you will need multiple cars. If you don't have multiple drivers, this plan would be dead on arrival. Cross border one way rental adds additional cost - a lot. You would also need to study up on traffic enforcement. While the traffic rules are similar across EU countries (while different from where you live), the enforcement is not. The enforcement practice you are used to at home does not apply in Europe. Many people fume after getting traffic tickets in Europe.
Dec 26th, 2016, 09:24 AM
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Great great info from greg
IME France does not have as dense or as comprehensive a rail system than does Germany- that said you can get to all main cities and in Normandy maybe rent a car or take buses or take mini-bus tours like in Bayeux - center of D-Day Invasion sites. There are dirt-cheap (1-2 euro) public buses but are limited in service and frequency.
TGVs are high-speed trains that require seat reservations before boarding- TER or as greg says regional trains you can just hop on - the is also a hybrid between them TEOZ they are called I think that also require seat reservations before boarding.
You presumably will be using regional trains going short distances.
I'd rent a car or two or a van - 9 pax max I think or a hired van with driver shared 7 ways.
Anyway for loads of great info on French and Benelux trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. There is a France-Benelux (Belgium, NL and Luxembourg) railpass that could be viable if taking several longer trips.
Between Normandy and Belgium quickest route by far is via Paris except flying -if renting car beware steep drop-off charges for renting in one country and dropping off in another.
IME France does not have as dense or as comprehensive a rail system than does Germany- that said you can get to all main cities and in Normandy maybe rent a car or take buses or take mini-bus tours like in Bayeux - center of D-Day Invasion sites. There are dirt-cheap (1-2 euro) public buses but are limited in service and frequency.
TGVs are high-speed trains that require seat reservations before boarding- TER or as greg says regional trains you can just hop on - the is also a hybrid between them TEOZ they are called I think that also require seat reservations before boarding.
You presumably will be using regional trains going short distances.
I'd rent a car or two or a van - 9 pax max I think or a hired van with driver shared 7 ways.
Anyway for loads of great info on French and Benelux trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. There is a France-Benelux (Belgium, NL and Luxembourg) railpass that could be viable if taking several longer trips.
Between Normandy and Belgium quickest route by far is via Paris except flying -if renting car beware steep drop-off charges for renting in one country and dropping off in another.
Dec 26th, 2016, 10:34 AM
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<i> Trains in France TGV vs TER
Posted by: Kstate90 on Dec 26, 16 at 11:48am</i>
I think that if you want to follow the 3rd Armored Division a rental vehicle would serve better than trains. The trains will whiz you past some of the places you would want to see. For an illustrated introducton to driving in Europe see http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap18/auto-1.htm, in four parts. You must anticipate a drop off charge if you rent in France and drop off in Germany. If you are planning for three weeks or more have a look at the Renault lease program, http://www.renaultusa.com/.
Posted by: Kstate90 on Dec 26, 16 at 11:48am</i>
I think that if you want to follow the 3rd Armored Division a rental vehicle would serve better than trains. The trains will whiz you past some of the places you would want to see. For an illustrated introducton to driving in Europe see http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap18/auto-1.htm, in four parts. You must anticipate a drop off charge if you rent in France and drop off in Germany. If you are planning for three weeks or more have a look at the Renault lease program, http://www.renaultusa.com/.
Dec 26th, 2016, 10:58 AM
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Each region in France has its own TER trains. Go to ter.sncf.com for the main site. On the upper right look at the map of France and click on the region that interests you. To see a map of the train network scroll to the bottom and look for the words carte and/or reseau and that usually give you a pdf link to click where you will see the ter rail network map for that region. These trains have fixed fares and no seat reservations so you can buy your ticket on your date of travel. Note that for TGV trains you need to buy those tickets 3 months in advance (sometimes more than 3 months for certain routes, like Eurostar) for the cheapest prices. See seat61.com for excellent info on rail travel in Europe.
Dec 26th, 2016, 11:01 AM
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As mentioned, you will be much better served in Normandy with a rental car. If you want to research public transport options in Normandy then use the Normandy public transport website www.commentjyvais.com.
Dec 26th, 2016, 06:13 PM
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Thanks for the information. I will do some more research on the trains. It looks like we will do a combination of trains and cars.
We pack fairly light. When we went last time we had a large checked bag and two carry on bags for a family of four. We could have packed lighter. My sister and her husband on the other hand had two large checked and two carry on bags. Not light travelers.
We pack fairly light. When we went last time we had a large checked bag and two carry on bags for a family of four. We could have packed lighter. My sister and her husband on the other hand had two large checked and two carry on bags. Not light travelers.
Dec 26th, 2016, 08:13 PM
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Haven't read this thread properly but I find it easier to have a small/medium sized bag per person than share a large bag. Manhandling large, heavy bags up stairs and on to trains is a real pain.
Dec 27th, 2016, 06:59 AM
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there are again always long walks to get into and out of stations and steps and like dreamon says steps to get into trains and if double-decker TGVS- more stairs to get to the preferable IMO upper deck views from seats.
Dec 27th, 2016, 07:58 AM
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I just wanted to add that we use the car lease program every year when we go to France. We use Auto France: www.autofrance.net/
They are the broker for Peugeot versus Renault. I think all the programs are similar but it is worth checking them all out:
Here is Citroen's http://www.ideamerge.com/car-lease-e...ee-france.html
We actually love these programs because you are almost 100% sure to get the car you really want, and the pricing includes full insurance and the car is brand new. Also, you don't have to face long rental lines when you pickup or drop off, etc. We also have had to have a windshield repaired due to a crack caused by a rock and they actually came to our place in France to do it! Very good service.
Things to note about the leasing programs:
They all have a minimum number of days required to be able to use the program-around 3 weeks I think. The daily price gets quite a bit cheaper if you rent longer, so it may or may not make sense for you. But for instance it might turn out to be cheaper if you use the car the whole time when you add up train costs for seven people etc.
Make sure to compare pricing to rentals that include full insurance.
Note that you can pick up the car in one place in France and drop it in another for the same price-that sometimes costs extra for rentals. You can also pickup in France and drop in another country like Germany generally for around $150. This might be worth it to not drive so long, depending on where you fly in and out of.
They are the broker for Peugeot versus Renault. I think all the programs are similar but it is worth checking them all out:
Here is Citroen's http://www.ideamerge.com/car-lease-e...ee-france.html
We actually love these programs because you are almost 100% sure to get the car you really want, and the pricing includes full insurance and the car is brand new. Also, you don't have to face long rental lines when you pickup or drop off, etc. We also have had to have a windshield repaired due to a crack caused by a rock and they actually came to our place in France to do it! Very good service.
Things to note about the leasing programs:
They all have a minimum number of days required to be able to use the program-around 3 weeks I think. The daily price gets quite a bit cheaper if you rent longer, so it may or may not make sense for you. But for instance it might turn out to be cheaper if you use the car the whole time when you add up train costs for seven people etc.
Make sure to compare pricing to rentals that include full insurance.
Note that you can pick up the car in one place in France and drop it in another for the same price-that sometimes costs extra for rentals. You can also pickup in France and drop in another country like Germany generally for around $150. This might be worth it to not drive so long, depending on where you fly in and out of.
Dec 27th, 2016, 11:23 AM
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<i>I just wanted to add that we use the car lease program every year when we go to France.</i>
It is definitely more convenient--except that both times we had problems with the car we lost a day and were not serviced on location. We had to drive to the local dealer.
It is not cheaper than renting, unless the rental is for more than 50 days. That was the case with us in 2003 when we leased a Renault Clio and compared the cost of the lease with what a "basic" (the credit card carries the CDW) rental available through Autoeurope would be. Prices on leases have increased since then at a greater rate than the rentals.
But ultimately the question remains: Can the OP find a van that would carry 7 persons plus all the luggage required for long distance touring? A local rental for day trips in an area is not the same thing, since the luggage could stay in the hotel of the town used as a home base.
It is definitely more convenient--except that both times we had problems with the car we lost a day and were not serviced on location. We had to drive to the local dealer.
It is not cheaper than renting, unless the rental is for more than 50 days. That was the case with us in 2003 when we leased a Renault Clio and compared the cost of the lease with what a "basic" (the credit card carries the CDW) rental available through Autoeurope would be. Prices on leases have increased since then at a greater rate than the rentals.
But ultimately the question remains: Can the OP find a van that would carry 7 persons plus all the luggage required for long distance touring? A local rental for day trips in an area is not the same thing, since the luggage could stay in the hotel of the town used as a home base.
Dec 27th, 2016, 12:47 PM
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<i>For places mentioned in the OP cars or mini-vans are much MUCH more practical than trains or buses. and no hassling with bags, etc.</i>
Yes, but can they find one for 7 passengers and all their luggage?
Yes, but can they find one for 7 passengers and all their luggage?
Dec 27th, 2016, 01:27 PM
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I have rented 7-person vans in France before when I was giving culinary tours. The problem is that they hold 7 people just fine, but only people who have minimal luggage, which doesn't characterize most American visitors. The next option is a 9-person van, which I will never drive in France - just too, too big, impossible to maneuver on small lanes, and hard to park.
Dec 27th, 2016, 01:58 PM
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<i>StCirq on Dec 27, 16 at 5:43pm
Probably the best idea, IMO.</i>
Yup. Bring good maps and mobiles. Two vans/cars will certainly get separated at lease once, most likely in a city while you are looking for parking places. One-way streets are a mind blower.
Probably the best idea, IMO.</i>
Yup. Bring good maps and mobiles. Two vans/cars will certainly get separated at lease once, most likely in a city while you are looking for parking places. One-way streets are a mind blower.
