bettyk

Sorry, Cig, but this has turned so nasty I'm not sure it's worth it anymore. Even our love of travel isn't enough to keep us civil.

I have a lot of respect for my country and my President. And 52% of the population obviously feel the same way I do. But not here. Here we have to listen to all this hatred spewed at our country and our leader.

I've done alot of traveling over the last 25 years and enjoy sharing my experiences. But it's just not fun here anymore.

cigalechanta

bettyk, bear in mind, the election caused a big happening on the forum. So, knowing that, you should not give up on sharing travel here. I'm /was pro Kerry, he was all we had against bUSH. mY BEST FRIEND IS PRO bUSh, BUT WE KNOW We DIFFER SO DO NOT LET OUR DISCUSSIONS GET OUT OF CONTROL. Sorry my ketboard is!!!!

smacknmo

Betty, don't stop enjoying fodors's because of some people. I love Europe, but I also love the USA which is my home country. I think the answer would be just to be more selective in what you click. I have to say I agree with you, but I realize the forum still has a lot of value and a wealth of excellent contributors. Don't let some people take that away from you. people

cigalechanta

ttt

Patrick

Gee, I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't read a single word of hatred or anything political in the US here for ages. Maybe that's because as soon as I start reading a thread and someone even hints at turning it to political stuff, I click on to another thread. It's really easy to do, bettyk, you ought to try that.

dln

That policy works equally well with obnoxious threads. And it gets easier to do, clicking out of certain threads, if you keep yourself in practice! The temptation gets less and less to peek. Try it, bettyk, and that way you won't lose the fun of Fodors.

kr

Nice post Patrick. H

opefully the board monitors will get involved quicker and delete any of topic post which is meant to stir it up.

indytravel

Yup bettyk, it's easy to do.

As soon as I see a thread turn ugly, I stop reading and move on.

No one, I mean NO ONE, will take the joy of travel, the joy of talking about travel away from me. I'm kinda selfish that way.

crefloors

We're just going through one of those "things" right now. I just usually stay out of those threads plus I am so opinionated..although open minded and almost always willing to entertain another point of veiew..I could probably post a reply longer than PLMN's trip report, so I just don't go there. It usually starts to get boring after awhile and then I just don't open that thread anymore. I was on another board for several years and oh my, would it get bad sometimes. There was one just wonderful gentleman who posted, and he just never got involved in any of those threads..there was one time where there was a post asking for him and he did answer that and stated that he would be back when the silliness stopped. You just judge what's silly or not to you, don't join in where you don't want to, and enjoy the rest...it's really pretty easy to do that. I've also found, you can't be overly sensative and be on the web because there are jerks, there can be attacks, and sometimes just simply misunderstandings...post taken wrong or comments misunderstood. At least they can't e-mail you directly unless you want to give your address. On the other board they could e-mail you and oh me oh my, did I ever get some "interesting" responses in my mail box. I actually blocked a couple of people. So, anyway, if you feel you need to go, then that's it, but it's really not necessary...just stay out of the fray.

cigalechanta

crefloors and indy, MUAH!!!!!!

Betsy

Perfect, Patrick. Take what you like and leave the rest...

repete

Sheesh, it used to look like bettyk was right there in the midst of it. her language was certainly colorful -- not Cheney in the Senate mind you, but descriptive nonetheless.

I mean she jumped the person who talked about Fox being a mouthpiece for the Bush admin. The answer there is two words: Roger Ailes.

Ailes admits he's called the White House to give advice (a journalistic no-no by the way) and his daily ``Executive Memo'' has been exposed as a ham-handed tool to distort news coverage.

PamSF

Yet another sign, times have changed. I found myself reading all these posts over the past few days and thinking how the great "nastiness" on Fodor's before was whether someone should vacation in San Francisco or San Jose. This now seems so very minor. I recently was in Paris for the first time in 6 years. I remarked to friends in postcards what a very changed world we now lived in. We used to fear pickpockets in Paris, now we fear terrorism.

Bettyk, you've expressed some very strong views and some of them might be taken as a bit inflammatory. You might be getting hit now with some of the response to same.

I do not share your respect for the president. I find the war in Iraq to be horrific. I think civil liberties are diminishing by the hour in the U.S. I find it mindboggling the US is the sole industrialized nation in the world without a nationalized health care system. According to your statistics, 48% of the population just might feel the way I do. None of these beliefs make me uncivil. I simply disagree with you on just about every point you've raised.
I'm in my mid 50's, have voted in every election, worked in the "anti-poverty" movement of the 1970's and now work in healthcare(nursing and mental health). I worked hard for a woman's right to choose and have protested every war since Vietnam. Many people who I deeply love by me no doubt do not meet the "moral values" of the current administration. My in-laws are German Jews who intermittently remark on the similarities between conditions in the US today and Germany in the 1930's. I do not feel my criticisms and concerns are any less serious than your own.

If you can't take the heat..you know what they say about the kitchen. If you find the nastiness offensive, contain your own.

And,in the end, betty,we'll always have Paris.

sheila

And, can I reiterate, that the overwhelming view on the prior and now closed thread was, we foreigners take people as we find them. On that thread, there wasn't much I agreed with bettyk on, but if whe were here on her hols, I bet we'd be good pals

BTilke

I didn't find anything on those posts so over the top (esp. when you compare them to the flamewars from the old pre-registration days). Anyway, bettyk, weren't you the one who told everyone to KISS MY GRITS! (your caps)? I don't think there was any more hatred "spewed" by the anti-Bush posters than from the pro-Bush side. Are you just mad that you didn't have the last word?

hansikday

People who like to put down America/ Americans/GWB on this forum apparently think they are free to insert insults and slams at will, without having to hear the other side.

I find it amusing that the very ones who start trouble always get so huffy when it's thrown right back at them. They seem to feel they have a natural right to act superior and be nasty. They always seem so amazed and puzzled that others dare to disagree with them. How quickly they then call on
Mother Fodor's to pull the thread.

Simple solution: Stick to travel and leave politics out of this forum.

TopMan

Try to keep it all in perspective. The post above mine speaks to "putting down" America...as if speaking one's mind about what one believes should be changed, is wrong, etc., etc., translates into a "put down" and there, I think, lies the real "problem."

When things come to the point that people are not allowed to speak their mind and are villified when they do and characterized as being somehow "unpatriotic" then that old adage, "There's nobody more DISloyal than a 'yes man' comes to mind."

There isn't any more "hatred" here now than there ever was. If, for some reason, it all seems to be more visible now than it was before, perhaps we should be asking ourselves what has really happened that makes people act like this and perhaps that is what needs to be fixed.

travelwoman

Hansikday, these unpleasant comments seem to come from both sides. At times, topics such as food, travel and politics can somehow come up in the same conversation or thread. I don't think that that is a bad thing as long as people are respectful of one and other. And we should never SCOLD each other, dont you agree, Hansikday?

Chatters

bettyk--- I think what you have is too much time on your hands is you can dedicate time to read (and respond) to threads that you find hateful. Patrick said it so perfectly, that I even stopped reading after that....give it a go, works like a charm

Adios Amigos, on to Spain at noontime!!!! TRAVEL, AHHHHHH!!

hansikday

No I don't agree. There is no room for politics on this forum - its just too inflamatory a subject to lead anywhere positive or productive.

Topman, I'm all for "Speaking your Mind" and expressing your personal politcal opinions, just not here. There are much better forums for that purpose.

travelwoman, people should be scolded for talking politics here. If left unchecked, this forum will be plagued by "flame wars" that will eventually ruin a very good environment. This is not the place to be a sore loser, gloat over a victory, or promote a personal agenda.