Natalia8

I need a little advice for our Swiss/Italian venture.
My husband and I are planning on spending 15 days in Switzerland and Italy. Flying for friends wedding in Zurich in early July. We have previously visited Switzerland for a long weekend: Montreux, Zermatt, Vevey and Kippel (a small village high in the Alps by the glacier). And this time we are happy that we will be able to spend more time in this wonderful country.
Our big passions are mountains, beautiful scenery, and medieval towns. This is our itinerary and I really appreciate any input and info. We are in our early 40's; trying to see a touristy parts, as well as discover a local gems.

Fly from Boston to Zurich overnight on the 29th of June, arrive the next day on the 30th (Friday) than relax and visit the city. Next half day on Saturday continue visiting Zurich than attend the wedding in the afternoon. Sunday morning take the train and visit half day Bern, than continue with train and visit half day Lucerne. Leave Zurich on Monday morning and take train to Bernese Oberland. Stay two nights in Murren or Lauterbrunnen or Grimmewald (need your opinion which town would be best). We love hiking not too long, mountain biking, and waterfalls. Coming from the Green Mountains of Vermont we love everything local. On Wednesday leave earlier and catch a train to Chur stay one night and next morning on Thursday take Bernina Express Train in the morning do Tirano, then different train to Varenna by Lake Como, spend there an afternoon and evening. Next morning Friday take a train to Milano and by the train station rent a car for a full week.

From Milano drive to Venice, possible stop by Verona for a lunch a quick visit then stay with our Italian relatives near Venice for two nights. The next day visit Venice for a full day with my Italian cousin. Leave next morning than travel to Tuscany where we are planning on staying in the countryside for 3 nights (agriturismo-B&B). One full day to visit Florence. And another full day of visiting the hill towns optional: San Gimignano, Montepulciano (I would love to do some wine tasting), Orvieto, Sienna...Appreciate any advice on the lovely hill towns and B&B options.

After 3 nights in Tuscany we will drive back North and stay one night in Cinque Terre, possible in Vernazza. I know that we have to leave our car before the town somewhere in the parking and take a train to Vernazza. So hopefully we could do some late afternoon hike, and have a nice dinner. Next day leave around noon for Milan, where we will be dropping off our car and spend late afternoon and then night. Then the next morning fly back to Boston on Saturday July 15th. So that leaves as with 8 nights in Italy and I know is rushed but we can't take more time off. We will visit some of the museums as much as our time allows (I know we need a reservations), but in general that trip is more about introduction to Italy, that is why I choose a little bit of everything (lake, cites, countryside and riviera). Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

PalenQ

Stay two nights in Murren or Lauterbrunnen or Grimmewald (need your opinion which town would be best)

Murren to me and especially Gimmelwald are too isolated for day trips around the Jungfrau Region. Wengen is a perpetual favorite here - car-less and well positioned for many excursions-just 20 minutes about from Lauterbrunnen.

Anyway look into some kind of Swiss Pass -covers trains to Grindelwald, Lauterbrunnen, Wengen and lift and train to Murren in full.

For loads of great stuff on Swiss trains and passes check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.rickteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

A neat way to go between Interlaken area and Chur is via postal bus Meiringen (train from Interlaken) - to Goschenen -take the shuttle train up to the Glacier Express rail route which takes you to Chur - regular trains just as fast and with a Swiss Pass can just hop on any train.

swandav2000

Hi Natalia8,

Did you mean Grindelwald? There is no place called Grimmewald in the BO. There is a tiny hamlet called Gimmelwald that only has a few buildings.

Grindelwald is a town up in the Alps that allows cars. In late June, the tourist hordes will be starting to flow in, and that means that the town can fill up with tour busses and the off-loaded passengers. I found it to be distinctly unpleasant when I visited with my mom one August (I had visited Grindelwald many times in the winter to ski, and at that season, it was wonderful).

Lauterbrunnen is a village at the bottom of some very high cliffs. The place has never attracted me, as the over-hanging cliffs always make me turn away and move on. Some folks here love the green views down the valley and the convenience of staying there.

I agree with PalQ above -- I think Wengen is the best option for the Oberland. It is a car-free village, so it has a singular, peaceful atmosphere, and it's not so very remote. I've stayed there a few times. Most hotels will collect you from the train station with an electric van or car.

Have fun as you plan!

s

PalenQ

I think Wengen is the best option for the Oberland. It is a car-free village, so it has a singular, peaceful atmosphere, and it's not so very remote. I've stayed there a few times.>

For many but not all is Wengen the best.

Younger -young 20s types may find Grindelwald more to their liking because of more action at night. But seeking solace Wengen is great and much better located than Murren and Gimmelwald-the latter totally isolated with little there there.

For OP Wengen seems a great fit.

PalenQ

for about a half-day the CT I think would be not the optimal experience you have in your mind - incredible hoards and hiking trails could be closed due to many factors.

Consider Santa Margarita Ligure as a sweet alternative and day trip into famous Portofino- alas also over flowing with tourists.

SML is a nice regional town as well (though also having like the whole area in mid-July lots of tourists).

PalenQ

There is a lot of parking in Monterosso - easily reached by car -take shuttle train to neighboring Vernazza. Or book hotel in Monterosso and hike to Vernazza -come back to M to sleep and easily take off the next day.

Monterosso's old town area is quaint but it does have a modernish section - with the best beach in the area.

Natalia8

Thank you very much for the replies. So hard for me to choose between Murren and Wengen (in this forum everyone prefers Wengen on TA forum it's the opposite). And probably both towns are very beautiful. Another question is what would be the faster way to travel from Oberland to Chur? We are interesting in taking the Bernina Express the next day.
As for our Italian venture, I am thinking that maybe we should take a train from Florence and visit Cinque Terre just for a day? there is also a guided tour company that can take you on a full day of Cinque Terre from Florence . I know it's probably too short but this way maybe would be easier?

isabel

For your Italian portion you are trying to do too much. You want to see Lake Como, Verona, Venice, Florence, Tuscan hilltowns, and Cinque Terre - in 8 days. I can see how the way you describe it it might sound doable but I don't think it will be at all enjoyable. And driving will actually make it worse. Here's what I would do (actually I wouldn't - it's still too rushed - but if I HAD to...)

Train from Switzerland to either Stressa on Lake Maggiore or Lugano. Both easier than Lake Como (will save several hours, they are both right on main train route from Switzerland to Italy) and spend one night in either of them to get a sense of the Lakes.

Then train to Venice (I guess you could stop in Verona and leave your luggage at the train station and see the center for a few hours - but I think you are under-estimating how much trouble it will be for too short a time to really enjoy it. Anyway, two nights in Venice gives you one full day. At least you'll 'see' it (forget about going into anything really, just wander around).

Then train to Florence. I think you should just spend your remaining five nights in Florence and do day trips. It's central, staying in just one place cuts down on the packing/checking in & out/ schleping, etc. You can do day trips to Siena (easily by bus, but allow a whole day)and Lucca/Pisa by train, (can do both in a day). Both of those easily done on your own. If you want, there are organized tours that will take you to some smaller Tuscan hill towns and others that do Cinque Terre. But that would eat up your whole time and you wouldn't have seen Florence. But with basing in Florence you can decide once you get there which and how many day trips to take. My guess is you'll end up cutting at least one of them.

PalenQ

Murren is nice but IMO too isolated to be a convenient base for the rest of the Jungfrau region - whereas Wengen is perfect situated. It takes time just getting down to Lauterbrunnen from Murren - taking first the train to the Grutschalp Cableway and all and if not having some kind of pass expensive.

PalenQ

Another question is what would be the faster way to travel from Oberland to Chur? We are interesting in taking the Bernina Express the next day.>

May or may not be the quickest:

Go down to Interlaken-Ost station - take train along beautiful Lake Brienz to Meiringen - then spectacular postal bus to Andermatt, which has regular and Glacier Express trains to Chur- but this way Chur is a detour - may as well go right to St Moritz or Pontresina where the Bernina Pass Railway really starts (Andermatt-Reichenau-St Moritz is also nice as it goes up the famous Albula Spirals, a World Heritage Site for its circa-1900 daring feats of Alpine railway engineering:

https://www.google.com/search?q=albu...w=1745&bih=864

(Chur to St Moritz goes up the same Albula Spirals- but again Chur is a detour off the Andermatt-St Moritz route- if coming via Zurich then Chur would be where you'd have to change trains to reach St Moritz (track width differences).

Even if via Zurich is quicker the bus-train route is so so spectacular! Swiss Passes valid the whole way.

kja

½ day is very little for Bern.

½ day is very little for Lucerne.

2 nights is very little for the Bernese Oberland. I would stay in Wengen if you can afford a room with a good view and don’t mind spending a bit of time in transit; Murren if you can’t afford Wengen, want a mountain village setting, and are willing to spend the time it takes to get there; and Lauterbrunnen if on a rushed schedule (as you are). (I’m one of those who loved Lauterbrunnen.) (Of Wengen and Murren, I thought Murren inconvenient and a bit too touristy in a way that seemed almost a characature; Wengen is heavily touristed, but I found it less Disney-ish, and I preferred the views from there. JMO. As already noted, if time is of the essence, I'd go for Lauterbrunnen.)

With as little time as you have, you are devoting a LOT of it to getting to Chur and then Tirano. Given your interests, do you really want to sit on a train for the better part of 2 days?

1 day is very little for Venice.

½ day is very little for Vernazza, and whether you can hike or not will depend entirely on the weather.

I get that you have only 8 nights -- and I'm sure you are justifiably glad for every one of them. The question is how much of that time you want to spend in transit for VERY little time on the ground. I would not enjoy the trip you are describing, and would prefer to see fewer places for more time. JMO.

Good luck!

PalenQ

Yup less can be more, more or less!