suggestions for 10 day trip

You're trying to cram in a huge amount in 10 days - does that include your travel days? Do you actually have 9 nights "on the ground?"

The idea of staying in two locations for 4 nights each makes sense, and will make for an interesting trip that doesn't require too much travel time, but not if you're trying to include Venice, Pisa, Stuttgart, the Lakes Region of Italy, and a little of Switzerland and Austria. AND need to fly in and out of a northern Italy city. I think you'll need to shorten your list and limit the geography of the trip. And unfortunately for the Porsche-lover, Stuttgart (a 7-hour drive from Venice) is the outlyer. I don't think there are any two locations that you could stay in from which you could easily visit many of the places you mentioned. For example, Como and Venice are a 3 1/2 hour drive apart, as are Pisa and Como.

I would suggest that you all get together with a map or in front of the computer with something like Google Maps. Then figure out the driving time between those locations, and see if there are regions that your group would want to spend four nights in.

On flying into London, and taking a low-cost carrier from there, you might want to consider some other options. It depends on where you're flying from, but I would guess a number of carriers (I know Lufthansa does, because that's how we get to Europe 95% of our trips) would allow you to fly to your ultimate destination, with a connection (in Lufthansa's case, in Frankfurt) somewhere. For example, from our home city in the U.S., we can fly direct to Frankfurt, then connect almost anywhere (including Bologna and Venice). If that is all part of the same itinerary, then the carrier will have an obligation to get you to your final destination, even if you miss (due to the transatlantic flight being late) your connecting flight. That is not the case if you book a flight with a low-cost carrier that's separate from the transatlantic portion of your trip.

Slow down!
Start and end in Munich and plan to see 3 destinations---Salzburg, the Bavarian castles, and Lago Como. That is a very full plate for only 10 days.

The places you want to see will require 3-4 stops.

The following plan helps you take advantage of extra-cheap German rail fares within the country and abroad, and uses the car only in northern Italy.

Nights 1-3: Fly London into Frankfurt Hahn and head to the Rhine or Mosel River valleys - great as a 3-day base to see medieval castles and nice villages. Trains cover both rivers nicely and daypasses are cheap and efficient for a group of 4 here - roughly 30€/day/group. Towns to target as bases: Cochem, Boppard, St. Goar.

Night 4: Train from Bingen (sample Rhine town) to Stuttgart (about 2 hours, 49€ total for 4, advance purchase 92 days out.)

Nights 5-6or7: Take the train from Stuttgart to Luzern, CH (about 4 hours, 39€ each, advance purchase 92 days out.)

Nights 7or8-9or10: Train from Luzern to Como (under 3 hours; check www.sbb.ch to see if there are any train deals.) Rent car in Italy as planned.

Trains to Stuttgart and Luzern: use http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en for itineraries and tickets. The cheap prices above are for capacity-controlled tickets that sell quickly beginning 92 days in advance and can be changed only with additional fees, so your train schedule should be very firm. The daypass option (Rheinland-Pfalz ticket) on the Rhine is very flexible; click on the rail line map to see what the R-P ticket covers:

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and-fares/ticket-offers/rheinland-pfalz-ticket/

You can do the Merc factory at Stuttgart as well if you like

You need a reservation to tour the Porsche factory. A few years ago, you had to request a reservation through a Porsche dealer and the tour was part of a delivery program after purchasing a car, but I don't know if that's still the case. Perhaps you can now request a reservation directly with Porsche, but you need to look into this.

I don't know about the Mercedes factory in Stuttgart, but I would guess they also require a reservation made in advance and I think the factory tour is conducted only in German. If it's like the BMW factory, then it's not worth a detour IMO. BMW's assembly line is nearly entirely automated with lots of robots. Dullsville.

marking for later comment

We have adjusted our trip... Starting out with a lot of driving then slowing down a bit.

9/19 Fly to milan

9/20 sleep in Milan

9/21 take the bullet train to Venice in morning - overnight

9/22 Venice overnight

9/23 drive to Heligenblut Austria for an overnight

9/24 + 9/25 Overnight in Lake Como area somewhere

9/26 overnight enroute to Monaco

9/27 overnight in Monaco

9/28 + 9/29 + 9/30 +10/1 Cinque Terre area

10/2 + 10/3 in Florence - looking at Pisa enroute

10/4 bullet train to Milan, fly out 10pm via overnight in airport hotel in London

Any suggestions or thoughts? Thank you in advance.

"Starting out with a lot of driving..." IMO, that's a huge understatement. You'll see some beautiful scenery, but I think the various segments will take longer than you're anticipating, and a portion along the coast west of Genoa will be backtracking. Where are you dropping the car?

"... bullet train to Venice..." There are no "bullet" trains in Italy, but there are fast, express trains.

I have to ask. What's in Heiligenblut?

Still a crazy plan. You're spending far more time in transit than you are in any destination, and huge amounts of time packing and unpacking.

Personally I'd eliminate Monaco entirely and cut Cinque Terre back to two days. Just for starters - you still need more trimming back.

And yes, why Heiligenblut?

We r meeting friends in Venice - we just couldn't get our flights directly there... and yes - i know not a bullet train - just a fast pretty direct train.

Heiligenblut is a sister city to one of our local mountain towns so we just really want to see it if even only for a night...

And - our traveling companion is really wanting to see Monaco - we have seen and agree with your comments - would way rather see Eze again - loved that place! Maybe we'll have our pals drop us off somewhere enroute to Monaco and we'll let them navigate that one on their own... They can pick us up on the way back through.

And not really planning on packing/unpacking - each just taking a carry-on with a lot of easy wash/hang dry clothes - just planning on bringing in our toiletries and a change of clothes

Thank you!

Still a crazy plan. You're spending far more time in transit than you are in any destination, and huge amounts of time packing and unpacking.>

I do not think it is 'crazy' at all and it is the type of travel I have done for decades - you do not need to spend 4 days in each stop - often IME it is what you pass, especially in a car, in between stops that is delightful.

I would also cut back on Cinque Terre and add a few days in Florence or driving around Tuscany - like the Siena or even going to Lucca, one of the finest medieval-looking walled cities in Europe IME - could stop there and base there a day or two and hit nearby Pisa as a day trip.

why must Fodorgarchs extend their travel style to others and call their plans 'crazy' when that is in this case at least a very subjective take - crazy for you but not crazy for me.

We will probably only pre-book a two night stay in Cinque Terre knowing that we can dawdle while enroute to Florence. Any suggestions for convenient spot to stay - want to be convenient to a couple nice long morning walks.

We spent 4 nights in Florence a couple yearss ago and are more interested in the little towns all around there. We have seen San Gimengano and Siena but not Lucca - maybe we'll stay a night there.

Lucca is a gem and for a nice walk you can circle the town on footpaths on top of the ancient walls. Or hike up to Pinnochio's home town just a few miles above Lucca - can't think of name but Collodi I think with a Pinnochio museum in this puppet's birthplace.

Another nice place to stroll around is a few miles by train or car from Lucca - Montecatini Terme, one of the poshest spa towns in Italy - a velvet like scene with lawns and parks and walking paths - very un-Italian - no mopeds, little traffic and a campus like setting.

"why must Fodorgarchs extend their travel style to others and call their plans 'crazy' when that is in this case at least a very subjective take - crazy for you but not crazy for me."

Because they ask for our opinion on their itineraries!!

ekc - it is the use of the word 'crazy' that I object to not stating your opinion - opinions can be stated without being rude and to call someone's plans 'crazy' because they do not comport with one's own views to me is just plain rude. Opinions yes but calling someone crazy no.

ekc didn't call the OP crazy, Pal, she said that the plan was crazy.

big difference.

the OP doesn't appear to have taken offence.

perhaps he'll file trip report to tell us how he got on.

no big difference IMO - the plan was crazy to her not me and not others - now that is being plain rude IMO. We can state our opinion without calling what others plan as being "crazy" - sorry to differ with you, the most polite FodorGarch of all time IMO.

oh, Pal, you flatter me unduly.

i have called other posters "crackers" amongst other things.