Piccolina

I'm planning a 3 week trip to Spain and Portugal and would like some comments on the proposed itinerary below. I would appreciate some suggestions on what to do in Portugal in week 3 or alternatively, I'm open to suggestions to stay in spain for longer and cut short the Portugal portion. Pls note that I have to return to Madrid at the end of week 1 as we're meeting a friend there who will join us for week 2 and 3. And we don't want to rent a car for the entire trip so we will have to rely on public transportation.

Day 1 - Madrid to Granada via Bus
Day 2 - Granada
Day 3 - Granada to Seville (Arrive in Seville later in the day)
Day 4 - Seville
Day 5 - Seville (Day trip to Cordoba)
Day 6 - Seville
Day 7 - Seville
Day 8 - Seville to Madrid, to start a 7 night stay in Madrid as we want to avoid moving around hotels
Day 9 - 14 (all overnights in Madrid - 6 full days) - day trips to Sergovia, Toledo and Valencia. 3 full days in Madrid + Day 15 in Madrid
Day 15 - most of the day in Madrid, take overnight train from Madrid to Lisbon (we want to experience an overnight train)
Day 16 - Arrive in Lisbon early morning
Day 17 - Lisbon
Day 18 - Lisbon with day trip to Sintra
Day 19 - Lisbon?
Day 20 and 21 - ??? <<what to do here?>>
Day 22 - Airport

Here are my questions:

1. With the AVE from Madrid to Valencia, is it worthwhile to do a day trip to Valencia while based in Madrid?
2. There are 2 full days opened on day 20 and 21 - i can spend this in portugal or extend our stay in spain before moving on to Lisbon - any suggestions?
3. I have about 4.5 days in Madrid - is this too much? Any other day trip idea from Madrid?
4. I have about 3 days in Lisbon excluding the day trip to Sintra - is this about right?
5. How frequent are the buses from Madrid to Granada?

Thanks for your input.

rhkkmk

i think you can find plenty to do in lisbon for the extra days.. sintra may not take a whole day...

CathyM

It's difficult to comment on the itinerary without knowing your interests or travel style. It appears you prefer to use base cities versus moving around. I wouldn't attempt a daytrip to Madrid from Valencia. If you're arriving into Spain after a transatlantic flight you might want to add a night to Granada. This would give you time to recover from jetlag on day 1-2. You might consider a daytrip to Evora from Lisbon. Also, Coimbra is a wonderful town with frequent connections to Lisbon to spend a couple of nights. I assume your flight home is out of Lisbon and you don't have to backtrack to Madrid.

Piccolina

I'm the type to want to do and see alot while traveling so I would rather have the options to do other things then trim down on it later for whatever reason.

For Portugal, we could head south or to Coimbra or Porto. Thoughts? Or alternatively, use those 2 days to stay in Salamanca before heading to Portugal.

Piccolina

I'm the type to want to do and see alot while traveling so I would rather have the options to do other things then trim down on it later for whatever reason.

For Portugal, we could head south or to Coimbra or Porto. Thoughts? Or alternatively, use those 2 days to stay in Salamanca before heading to Portugal.

Piccolina

CathyM - Thanks for the suggestions on Coimbra and Evora. Yes, flight home is out of Madrid but I'm based in Europe so no issue with the jetlag.

Our interests are food(!) and experiencing the local culture while still seeing the tourist attractions (first time in all these places). I love small towns and something off the beaten track but I think that is difficult to do without a car though.

kimhe

Sevilla has got one of the finest tapas scenes in Spain. El Rinconcillo from 1670 is the oldest restaurant in the country and well worth a visit. They do the best chickpeas with spinach, one of the city's signature tapas. http://www.elrinconcillo.es/

My favourites in town would be in the San Lorenzo district north of the more touristy Santa Cruz area.
Eslava: http://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilletapas/category/eslava/
Bodega dos de Mayo: http://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilletap...omment-page-1/

I can also recommend El Cairo in Calle Reyes Católicos, 13, close to the Triana bridge (Puente Isabel/Puente de Triana). Excellent paella tapas at lunchtime (at the bar), and great local atmosphere: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...Andalusia.html

Here are more very well informed suggestions about places to eat in Sevilla. By districts:
http://azahar-sevilla.com/sevilletapas/
http://www.exploreseville.com/tapas-bars.htm

Piccolina

Thanks kimhe for the suggestions! Making notes!

ColeConners

The Spanish itinerary sounds OK except I think there's probably one day too many in Seville, unless you want to take one day off to just relax in the city.
On those two days in Lisbon, I'd forget the suggested trips to Coimbra and Porto. Porto deserves a longer stay and Coimbra isn't all that exciting except for the university. But if you do want to visit another Portuguese city, I suggest a daytrip to Évora. It's easy to get to by express bus. This page will tell you how:
http://www.lisbonlux.com/evora/

Also, a trip to Obidos, one hour north of Lisbon may also be nice, although it's not very easy to reach by public transportation. You'd need a car or go on an organized tour.
Obidos info: http://www.lisbonlux.com/obidos/

CathyM

How do you plan on returning to Madrid for your return flight? If you're not flying from Lisbon to Madrid then you may need to add a day at the end for a final night in Madrid.

I personally think the time in Sevilla is good as there are several easy daytrips you can take from Sevilla to more out of the way places (Osuna, Ecija, Sanlucar, Carmona, Arcos). It will give you the flexibility to do as many or few daytrips as you'd like.

Salamanca is a good idea - a great city to visit. If you had 3 days you could even do a daytrip to Ciudad Rodrigo or Zamora.

If your heart isn't set on Lisbon logistically it would probably be easier to stay in Spain. If you've never visited Barcelona it's a beautiful city and a contrast to Madrid and Andalucia. You could easily spend a week in Barcelona with daytrips to further explore the region of Catalonia. Or you could head north to the Basque country in lieu of the Portugal portion of the trip.

What time of your is this trip?

CathyM

How do you plan on returning to Madrid for your return flight? If you're not flying from Lisbon to Madrid then you may need to add a day at the end for a final night in Madrid.

I personally think the time in Sevilla is good as there are several easy daytrips you can take from Sevilla to more out of the way places (Osuna, Ecija, Sanlucar, Carmona, Arcos). It will give you the flexibility to do as many or few daytrips as you'd like.

Salamanca is a good idea - a great city to visit. If you had 3 days you could even do a daytrip to Ciudad Rodrigo or Zamora.

If your heart isn't set on Lisbon logistically it would probably be easier to stay in Spain. If you've never visited Barcelona it's a beautiful city and a contrast to Madrid and Andalucia. You could easily spend a week in Barcelona with daytrips to further explore the region of Catalonia. Or you could head north to the Basque country in lieu of the Portugal portion of the trip.

What time of your is this trip?

Piccolina

Thank you all for your thoughts. We're flying into Madrid and out of Lisbon, plus I want to go to Lisbon (if not any other portugese cities).

Is 4.5 days in Madrid too much? People I know who've been to Madrid usually say it is boring - is this true? I want to visit the museums but i'm not a HUGE art fan (ie: not someone who can spend the whole day in one museum).

Do you think I go to Algarve if I have 2-3 extra days in Lisbon? I love beaches but I've been to many beautiful ones in my lifetime so not seeing the beaches in the Algarve won't break my heart if beaches are the main reason people go to the Algarve. I'm more into local culture and great food while traveling.

Thanks again

kimhe

Boring would be the last word to describe Madrid, the city that never sleeps. I previously posted these suggestions:

Have breakfast or lunch at Café del Círculo de Bellas Artes in down town Calle Alcalá, 42. One of the city's most emblematic cafés. Grab a window table and watch Madrid life on bustling Calle Alcalá. Take the lift up to the roof topp terrace (the azotea) for the most spectacular views of the city. http://www.esmadrid.com/en/cargarApl...ntificador=179

Watch the sunset over the Guadarrama mountains from the terrace at El Ventorrillo in the Vistillas park. Great pollo al ajillo, some say the best in town. Map, video and some pictures: http://11870.com/pro/restaurante-ventorrillo

Have lunch or some tapas at Casa Granada, on the 6th floor of an apartment building just off Plaza Tirso de Molina. Hard to find and a great terrace. http://www.tripfilms.com/Travel_Vide...ada-Video.html

Café Central, just off bustling Plaza Santa Ana, is a fabulous jazz venue with live performances from the best artists every night at 10. Entrance 11€. Good food also. Populart, a little further down the street, is also a great place.

Experience world class flamenco at one of the best tablaos. Madrid is arguably the flamenco capital of the world. Although the art form comes from the South (Andalucía), everybody has to conquer Madrid to get to the top. On their way there, or as an opportunity to try out new things and get an up close audience, many of them work the top tablaos. I recommend Casa Patas and Cardamomo, both close to Plaza Santa Ana.
http://www.casapatas.com/
http://www.cardamomo.es/

Medina Mayrit, an Arab bath-house just off Plaza Mayor in Calle Atotcha, 14. (Mayrit is the old Arab name (from the 9th century) of Madrid, meaning running water and referring to the water sources beneath the city). http://www.medinamayrit.com/

A stroll in the beautiful Retiro Park. http://www.aviewoncities.com/madrid/parquedelretiro.htm

Asturian Casa Mingo for the best grilled chicken and cider: http://www.casamingo.es/
Watch the video, and you're sold:
http://11870.com/pro/casa-mingo/videos/bc313f19

Txirimiri in Calle del Humilladero, 6 gives you an idea of why the Basque kitchen is considered among the best in the world. In the midst of one of the best tapas/restaurant districts in town, in and around Calle Cava Baja in La Latina.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restauran...ri-Madrid.html

I never leave Madrid without having had the squid in its own ink and the famous cod at Casa Revuelta, also in the same district.
http://11870.com/pro/casa-revuelta

You should also try the excellent salmorejo, a somewhat thicker variant of the tomato/vegetable soup gazpacho, in Según Emma just behind the newly reopened gourmet-oriented San Miguel food market. http://11870.com/pro/segun-emma
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserR...ma-Madrid.html

First class dining at El Mentidero de la Villa:
http://www.mentiderodelavilla.es/
http://11870.com/pro/el-mentidero-la-villa

The Reina Sofia contemporary art museum. The second floor with Picasso, Dalí, lots of other painitings, posters, films, photos etc., dealing with a couple of the greatest civilizational breakdowns of the 20th century, the Spanish Civil War and WWII, completely blew my mind off a couple of years ago.

The Rastro flea market on Sunday, just as much about having some tapas and a vermut as about shopping: http://www.madrid-guide-spain.com/el-rastro.html

The Chueca and Malasaña area, north of Gran Vía, is Madrid's most lively shopping district that "combine both originality and the avant-garde. Specifically, the section made up of little streets perpendicular to Fuencarral and Hortaleza streets is a shoppers’ paradise".
http://www.softguides.com/madrid_gui...ne.html#chueca

This site is great about Madrid. http://www.esmadrid.com/en/portal.do

Piccolina

Kimhe - how can i ever thank you for all the wonderful recommendations. You've saved me MANY hours researching on net. Mucho gracias.

SashieZ

I agree with others regarding Seville. Four days is a lot unless you plan on a few day trips. I found two days in Seville enough. We didn't travel to Madrid but loved Barcelona.

BigRuss

You can detour to stop in Fatima and visit Porto with those extra days in Portugal.

Piccolina

Where can I find some bus or train information from Madrid to Granada?

four_maccas

Hi Piccolina,
ALSA bus company run buses between Madrid and Granada. Their website is www.alsa.es Train timetables are available from Renfe at www.renfe.com

Piccolina

Does it make sense if i make a detour north to go to Bilbao, then head back to Madrid to take an overnight train to Lisbon? Bilbao looks amazing and feels like I shouldn't miss this if I'm going to spend 2+ week in Spain. Thoughts?

kimhe

Bilbao is great! And if you go up north, you should also visit San Sebastián one hour away with bus. The food capital of Spain if not all of Europe. 17 Michelin stars in this relatively small city (pop. 180 000). Many consider this to be the absolute no. 1 city in Spain, myself included.

Have come back almost every year for more than twenty years. Hard to know where to begin to describe the city, but
this gives you an idea: http://marshlands.blogstream.com/

You can have great gourmet experiences in the world famous pintxos bars in San Sebastián. Each pintxo would be some 2-3€:
http://www.todopintxos.com/home/home.php?lang=en