isabel

I'm in the early stages of planning a trip to Spain, probably for next summer. I'll be using public transportation - trains and buses - to get around. I know it can be better sometimes to base yourself in one place and do day trips - but on the other hand, when you do that you miss the ambiance of the town after all the other daytrippers leave. And the ambiance of a town is often just as important to me as the big "sites".

One of the areas I can't decide about is Madrid - Segovia -Toledo - Avilla. I really have about zero interest in Madrid itself and I would like to see those other towns, all of which can he done as day trips from Madrid. So - does it make sense to just use Madrid as a base and the others as day trip. No lugging luggage to and finding hotels in each town. Or spend a night in each town. But that would mean three one night stays.

The other area is Andulucia. I definitly want to see Sevilla, Cordoba, Granada and Ronda. A lot of people seem to do Cordoba as a day trip from Sevilla. But it sounds like such a nice place I'm tempted to overnight.

So what do you all think? I haven't bought the tickets yet and I'm think probably 17-18 nights. I know I want 3 or 4 in Barcelona at either the begining or end of the trip.

Seamus

Not sure why you dismiss Madrid, as it offers some great places - Prado, Reina Sofia and Thyssen museums to start. But it is indeed a good place to base. We did that and made day trips on the train to to Segovia, Toledo, even Sevilla on the AVE. One thing to remember is that you may not be able to stay for an evening meal depending on the time of the last train back - we wound up spending a night in Segovia when we missed the last train. It was actually rather fun, and since we were flexible on schedule no big deal.

eurotraveller

I wouldn't base in Madrid unless you like the big city feel.

There is NO need to stay in night in Cordoba, in my opinion. Just go visit the Mezquita from Seville and call it good. It is definitely worth a day trip!

The Pueblos Blancos are beautiful. I recommend renting a car for a few days if you can. That is the easiest way around the Pueblos Blancos.

After 3 days in Granada we took a bus to Malaga and overnighted so we could fly to Barcelona. We saved a lot of time and the flight was pretty cheap. Definitely stay in Barcelona for at least 3 full days. I don't often take any kind of tour but we did a 3 hour bus tour around Barcelona on our first day and it was great!

Enjoy your trip!

Cheers!

Tamara

cruiseluv

I also wouldn't dismiss Madrid. I have been there several times and whereas I didn't care for it that much the first couple of times, I like it a lot now. In addition to the museums, the Plaza Mayor is beautiful, specially at night time. Also the Royal Palace and the Plaza de Oriente area are very nice. I always done Segovia and Toledo as day trips. I'm sure it's nice to experience the atmosphere at night as well.
You say that you will be doing the trip with public transportation. I'm pretty sure there is no train between Segovia and Toledo. There might be bus service between them. If not, you'll have to go back to Madrid to get the trasnportaion which obviously would be a hassle.
With respect to Sevilla, etc. 3 yrs ago I stayed 4 days in Sevilla. From there we did a day trip to Cordoba . Other than the Mezquita and Alcazar I wasn't that impressed with the city. I remember we even took an earlier AVE back to Sevilla than we originally planned. I'm sure that you're aware of the heat in the south in the summer months.
Last year we went back to Spain and did part of the North. Gorgeous weather and sites. Now that's my preferred area in Spain.

Good luck!

Giovanna

Madrid was not my favorite city in Spain, but I'm glad we stayed there a few days and agree with the others suggestions for things to see and do.

From Seville (which I love) I would suggest a day trip to Jerez de la Frontera. We very much enjoyed a tour of a sherry bodega and the performance of the beautiful Andulusian horses.

Mary_Fran

We tend not to do day trips, preferring to stay the night in towns we’re visiting. We both just carry a 22" carry on, so packing/unpacking isn’t a big deal. I like the adventure of experiencing many hotels, and also I prefer not to backtrack if I can help it. Also, especially in Spain, where you have to deal with Siesta, it’s nice to stay in town, where you can do your sight-seeing early, take a siesta when many places are closed, and join the folks out and about in late afternoon and evening.

Knowing what a great photographer you are, I also think you benefit from being able to take your photos from sunrise until late at night. When do you sleep, girl?

I can’t wait to see your photos when you return. This post prompted me to revisit your photo album on Pbase once again. Folks, check this out: http://www.pbase.com/annforcier

I also join the others in suggesting you allow time in Madrid. I was surprised to find how much I liked it.

isabel

Thanks for the replys everyone.
MaryFran - thanks both for the photo compliment and the info. I hadn't really thought about the siestas. You are right that with day trips they could make a big difference. I also travel with just a 22" so the packing/unpacking doesn't bother me. But even with only one bag, it still slows you down a bit arriving in a town, as oppossed to how you'd be on a day trip without a bag. I'll have to re-read your trip report - I'll probably have some questions for you.

I'm still not sure about Madrid. I usually love large cities. I've been to Paris four times and I'm about to go back to London for the fourth time. But everything I read about Madrid doesn't interest me. What did all of you like about it?

Mary_Fran

Isabel,

Keep in mind we only had two nights in Madrid, so I left wanting more. I had expected not to like Madrid, so I didn't plan much time there before our departure flight.

I LOVED the Prado, especially the Goya exhibit. I enjoyed the Palacio Real and Plaza Mayor, and just walking around I liked what I saw. Didn't even have time to see Retiro Park.

Part of the attraction is that I like cities with big shoulders, cities who could do very nicely if a tourist never showed up again. There was something honest and businesslike for me about Madrid, not precious or adorable but vibrant and alive. Not a very good explanation, perhaps, but the best I have to offer.

LoveItaly

MaryFran, I just read you post and something struck me about what you said about Madrid.

Without every being able to put it into words that is how I feel about Milan, Italy.

A city not begging for tourist. A city "that is". A city that will welcome tourist but not trying to become nothing but a tourist destination.

You do have a way with words. I have noticed that with your trip reports.

A 2005 to you and your sister and wishes for many more wonderful trips to the both of you.

isabel

Mary Fran & LoveItaly. I see your point. I do like to spend some time in cities that are "real" as oppossed to those that, while they were "real" once (and of course in some sense still are) but are now very tourist oriented. So maybe I'll try one or two nights in Madrid. I do think it's important to at least experience as many manjor world cities as possible.

How about Cordoba as a seperate destination versus doing it as a day trip from Sevilla?

Mary Fran - I read your trip report, very helpful. One thing that struck me was you mentioned going to McDonalds, having pizza, etc. All I've been reading (hear and elsewhere) about food in Spain is Tapas, tapas, tapas. It sound great but I tend to do quick snack type meals, at least for lunch. Or picking up food at grocery stores for picnics. Did you find you were able to this? Or would be able to? Are there places to grab a slice of pizza or a sandwhich, etc - without going to a restaurant for a whole meal?

Cassandra

Madrid has some lovely neighborhoods, in addition to the museums that are, indeed, pretty special. There are certainly areas that might bore you, but we loved walking through the Retiro garden and poking around the more upscale areas thereabouts. The monumental plazas where streets intersect can be pretty grand. But I'll admit, I liked Barcelona a lot more.

However, we did Sevilla and Toledo/Escorial as daytrips and found that completely do-able. Nonetheless, I suspect Toledo would actually be more engaging after the tourists leave in the afternoon and then again in the morning before they arrive. Sevilla does leave you wanting a bit more if you've only been there from 10 am to 6 pm, which is enough to see the cathedral, the Alcazar +gardens and putter around a bit and have a single meal but not much more.

Mary_Fran

Isabel,

I'm afraid almost anyone on the forum could give you better advice about food in Spain than I could. We were not good little eaters in the land of the Catholic Monarchs.

This long thread I started summed up our experiences with food in Spain: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34538552.

Put on your hardhat and waders before you open it, however, some folks are passionate about their Spanish food. I'll be interested if you find anything helpful among the 80 posts.

We had good tapas a couple of times, and if I had it to do over, I'd concentrate more on tapas, in bars where I could see what was offered before I ordered it.

We did also buy fruit, tomatoes, and cheese, from outdoor vendors and from the supermarket in the basement of El Corte Ingles (buying a knife as well - might want to bring your own in your suitcase, along with a corkscrew).

weber6560

going to pass on the Madrid debate except ot say that in every country I find the small towns most interesting. A couple of thoughts re day trips: Segovia and toledo are a natural for day trips from Madrid. OR you can do a 2-3 day loop including the three - done it by car but not by public transport.
I am generally not a day trip guy because early morniong and lte afternoon are my favorite time [ggod light]. But Toledo and Segovia are certainly doable day trips from Granada. Avila a bit of stretch but does have great walls.

Re Cordoba: Agree with whoever said the Mezquita is the hit. The rest is not particularly unique - you will see the same elsewhere. Not a putdown on Cordoba - just reality. You can easily do it via AVE from Madrid to Seville. Spend the night on Cordoba or simply stash your stufff in lockers, do 3-4 hours in Cordoba, and then on to Sevilla.

Seville is special. 3-4 days at least. The best bet then is to rent a car and drive to Ronda for one night and then on to Granada, turning the car in as oon as you arrive. Again a 3-4 day town. [My favorite]

isabel

weber - you are right about the early morning and late afternoon light. That's my problem, there seem to be so many reasons to stay in each town but when I look at my proposed itinerary I have a lot of 1 or 2 night stays. And when traveling by public transportation that can make for a very tiring trip.

So I guess what I need to do is decide which towns really deserve an overnight. From Madrid I want to see Segovia, Toledo and Avilla (and Madrid). That would be four one nighters. Too much. So maybe I'll do 2 in Segovia, 2 in Madrid with a day trip to Avilla and 1 in Toledo.

People are starting to convince me that Cordoba would be worth skipping as an overnight. Are the lockers in the train station large enough for a 22" suitcase? I've never left luggage in a train station before. Is it really safe?

cruiseluv

Hi Isabel,

re Cordoba, I don't have any info on lockers but couldn't you do Cordoba as a day trip from Sevilla and return to sleep in Sevilla? That's how we did it. I thought you were staying in Sevilla for a few days.

ms_go

isabel - I would consider spending a night or two in Toledo, if you have to choose. I have been there twice, both times on day trips from Madrid (June and October). Toledo is a fascinating city with a lot to see, but both times I was there it was so crowded with tour groups and daytrippers that it really detracted from the experience (yes, I know I was one of them ). If you do visit on a day trip, make sure it's not on a weekend.

I'm sure that there are tour groups going through Segovia and Avila during the day as well, but I doubt there will be as many. We also did a day trip to Segovia last year, and it was much less crowded. We really, really liked Segovia, and if you go there, be sure to take the back walk along the river below the alcazar and over to the Iglesia de la Vera Cruz. Although we certainly would have liked to have spent more time there, we didn't leave feeling we were unable to see the city at its best. We also wanted to go to Avila but didn't have time.

Re: the Madrid debate, I'll just add that I spent five days there on business in 1999, and I went not expecting to like it at all. I ended up with quite a bit of time to explore on my own and left really wanting to go back. We did return for a week last year and I enjoyed it as much, if not more. Certainly the museums are worth some time (and not just the big three; there also is an outstanding archeological museum as well). But I'm one of those people who just likes to stroll around in big cities, and I found the contrasts between the narrow streets of the old city, the Palacio Real, the architectural detail of the grand boulevards and plazas, the Salamanca district, and the Retiro to be very interesting and enjoyable. I know it is all very subjective, but Madrid is in the upper part of my list of favorite cities.

weber6560

The lockers in Cordoba will handle a 22 - no prob. Understand your concern too many short term trips but don't overlook the Spanish bus system. It is super, comfortable, clean and runs on time. I'd look at the possibility of a string of one-nighters from Madrid to Segovia, to Avila and then to Toledo. I'd bet money that it is doable and easily by bus. There are web sites for the Spanish buslines that I have used before but I don't know what they are now. Incidentally, as you no doubt realize, the postings re crowds in these cities are accurate but only apply from about 1030 am to 330 pm. Check out the busses. I am sure it will work. Have used them in other parts of the country and I am sure they will work here!

cruiseluv

As Weber said , the bus system in Spain is very good. I used this system to move from Madrid to Salamanca, Zamora, Leon and points north last summer with no problems. The websites of some of these bus companies are:

www.lasepulvedana.es - goes to Segovia and Toledo
www.alsa.es - various destinations
www.auto-res.net - goes to salamanca, avila
www.continental-auto.net goes to various dest.

Good luck!

zwho

I have to add my 2 cents! I was just like you on Madrid. We were landing there, but all I cared about was seeing Toledo, Avila, Escorial & Segovia. We spent 2 days in Madrid which I think was perfect. The Museums were Fantastic! Better then almost any others we've seen. They can be done in 1 day if you just spend an hour or 2 in the Thyssen and Reina. The Prado takes more time, but is worth it. The next day go to the Palace and just wander the area from the Palace thru the Plaza Mayor and back to the Prado area. People watching is great! We spent the nite in Toledo. It was fun. We also spent the night in Segovia and that was also worth it. Avila was seen in the morning and that afternoon we spent at Escorial. In the evening we drove on to Segovia. We did have a car. The driving is so easy. I agree with what you are hearing about Sevilla and Cordoba. You can easily spend the night in Sevilla and take the AVE to Cordoba, store your luggage at the train station, spend the morning and early afternoon and still be in Madrid by late afternoon. Have fun.

Mary_Fran

Isabel! We're all agreed! We've solved it, don't you think? Consensus!