South African touring bit of Europe....Help!
Nov 26th, 2013, 11:46 PM
#1
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South African touring bit of Europe....Help!
My friend & I are visiting Europe for the first time in 2015. I'm want to start planning the trip but not too sure if this is realistic?
We want to visit Paris (France), Italy, Austria & maybe Switzerland & Amsterdam (Netherlands).
Would 21 days be enough for travel & enjoying the countries?
We want to visit Paris (France), Italy, Austria & maybe Switzerland & Amsterdam (Netherlands).
Would 21 days be enough for travel & enjoying the countries?
Nov 27th, 2013, 01:36 AM
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You can visit Paris, Amsterdam, and selected locations in Italy and Austria but you cannot visit 2 cities and 2 countries in 21 days.
Choose 3 locations in Italy plus Paris and Amsterdam and you'll have about 3.5 days in each place.
Choose 3 locations in Italy plus Paris and Amsterdam and you'll have about 3.5 days in each place.
Nov 27th, 2013, 08:19 AM
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<< you cannot visit 2 cities and 2 countries in 21 days
Sure you can. It's not ideal and not recommended but it's definitely possible. >>
I guess you might be able to do this if you rented a car and only stopped driving when absolutely necessary but you wouldn't have any time for sightseeing. To cover all of Austria and Italy you need to get off the highways and use the slow secondary roads. You'd also need to depend on ferry schedules to Sicily and Sardinia and Elba.
I know I would not want to spend most of the 3 weeks in a car.
Sure you can. It's not ideal and not recommended but it's definitely possible. >>
I guess you might be able to do this if you rented a car and only stopped driving when absolutely necessary but you wouldn't have any time for sightseeing. To cover all of Austria and Italy you need to get off the highways and use the slow secondary roads. You'd also need to depend on ferry schedules to Sicily and Sardinia and Elba.
I know I would not want to spend most of the 3 weeks in a car.
Nov 27th, 2013, 08:42 AM
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You have plenty of time to take into account the consensus of replies so far.
I suggest you raid your local library's travel shelves, rent or download DVDs with documentaries and travel shows, read and watch them in depth, preferably the two of you TOGETHER, and you'll soon see how much there is to see and experience in each of these world-class targets.
Then you have to take into account the time and energy and cost of relocating - door-to-door, check-out hotel counter to check-in hotel counter. That's not trivial, even if Europe looks small on a map.
Then make up an itinerary that not only makes sense geographically (not so important these days with the myriad of budget airlines that whisk you in any direction) but in terms of things to see and do. Mix it up - don't go from one museum-heavy location to another museum-heavy location, have some country-side and small-town fun in between or you'll burn out.
For example, fly into Amsterdam, after four days (you'll need two to get over the lack of sleep and jetlag and to get your bearings), having visited at least two museums (Stedelijk and Rijks) plus enjoyed the canals and such, rent a car and enjoy the countryside down into Belgium and on to Paris, with stops at least at Antwerp, Ghent, Bruges, Lille (read up on all these), to Paris where you ditch the car. Along the way you can wing accommodation, in small towns you always find an overnight solution, no need to lock yourselves in.
Now you're a week into this trip, and Paris beckons - five days minimum.
Fly to Venice, spend two nights, take the train to Ravenna for an overnight to see the incredible mosaics (www.ravennamosaici.it), on to Florence, with day trips to Siena and Pisa and Lucca, and just maybe that will have to do it - fly home from an Italian airport so that you don't have to return to Amsterdam just to board a plane.
This is just one of many ways of doing such a trip without rushing, avoiding a blur of undigested impressions without any real lasting memories.
I'm sure others will have many suggestions for variations on this theme - haste makes waste.
Happy planning - that's half the fun!
I suggest you raid your local library's travel shelves, rent or download DVDs with documentaries and travel shows, read and watch them in depth, preferably the two of you TOGETHER, and you'll soon see how much there is to see and experience in each of these world-class targets.
Then you have to take into account the time and energy and cost of relocating - door-to-door, check-out hotel counter to check-in hotel counter. That's not trivial, even if Europe looks small on a map.
Then make up an itinerary that not only makes sense geographically (not so important these days with the myriad of budget airlines that whisk you in any direction) but in terms of things to see and do. Mix it up - don't go from one museum-heavy location to another museum-heavy location, have some country-side and small-town fun in between or you'll burn out.
For example, fly into Amsterdam, after four days (you'll need two to get over the lack of sleep and jetlag and to get your bearings), having visited at least two museums (Stedelijk and Rijks) plus enjoyed the canals and such, rent a car and enjoy the countryside down into Belgium and on to Paris, with stops at least at Antwerp, Ghent, Bruges, Lille (read up on all these), to Paris where you ditch the car. Along the way you can wing accommodation, in small towns you always find an overnight solution, no need to lock yourselves in.
Now you're a week into this trip, and Paris beckons - five days minimum.
Fly to Venice, spend two nights, take the train to Ravenna for an overnight to see the incredible mosaics (www.ravennamosaici.it), on to Florence, with day trips to Siena and Pisa and Lucca, and just maybe that will have to do it - fly home from an Italian airport so that you don't have to return to Amsterdam just to board a plane.
This is just one of many ways of doing such a trip without rushing, avoiding a blur of undigested impressions without any real lasting memories.
I'm sure others will have many suggestions for variations on this theme - haste makes waste.
Happy planning - that's half the fun!
Nov 27th, 2013, 01:13 PM
#9
Don't worry. Once you have researched a bit more (since you have plenty of time), you will be able to determine what is reasonable and what should be discarded.
My main idea for trips like this is to first ask yourself how able you are to travel. If you will have the money and inclination to make another trip, or maybe even several more in the coming years, you should not try to cram everything into your first trip.
Then again, I have rushed across various continents in the past just because I knew that I would be returning and I wanted to get a taste of a few places to be able to choose where I would want to return. However, I worked for a major international airline, so I knew ahead of time that return trips would not be a problem. If I had been paying full fare, I would have been a lot more careful in my planning.
My main idea for trips like this is to first ask yourself how able you are to travel. If you will have the money and inclination to make another trip, or maybe even several more in the coming years, you should not try to cram everything into your first trip.
Then again, I have rushed across various continents in the past just because I knew that I would be returning and I wanted to get a taste of a few places to be able to choose where I would want to return. However, I worked for a major international airline, so I knew ahead of time that return trips would not be a problem. If I had been paying full fare, I would have been a lot more careful in my planning.
Nov 27th, 2013, 04:03 PM
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two key resources:
The Michelin green guides not only list all of the major sights
in an area, they also tell you how long it will take to see the sights (if 1 hours is reasonable or if you have to allow 3 to see much)
Check out bahn.de - which has train schedules for all of europe so you can tell if you will have to allow a half day or a full day to get from one city to another
The Michelin green guides not only list all of the major sights
in an area, they also tell you how long it will take to see the sights (if 1 hours is reasonable or if you have to allow 3 to see much)
Check out bahn.de - which has train schedules for all of europe so you can tell if you will have to allow a half day or a full day to get from one city to another
Nov 28th, 2013, 01:23 PM
#11
It is indeed very important to check train schedules around Europe to see how to get from point A to point B. Overnight trains have become relatively rare due to high speed train networks, but they still exist and can be a good option for long distances.
It will be hard to determine train fares for 2015 now, but you can try some dummy bookings for this year on some of the national train sites to see what fares might be. In France, for example, lots of the cheapest fares can be booked 3 months in advance (6 months in advance for certain trains). This can create fares that vary from 20 euros to 120 euros for the very same train, so it is extremely important to research this as thoroughly as possible.
It will be hard to determine train fares for 2015 now, but you can try some dummy bookings for this year on some of the national train sites to see what fares might be. In France, for example, lots of the cheapest fares can be booked 3 months in advance (6 months in advance for certain trains). This can create fares that vary from 20 euros to 120 euros for the very same train, so it is extremely important to research this as thoroughly as possible.
Nov 29th, 2013, 02:15 AM
#12
It has been a loooong time since I was a young man growing up in South Africa, but my generation often wanted to "do Europe" in their twenties, so I will assume Heidi falls into this category. Knowing the Rand v € rate, I will also assume that budgets might be tight.
One "traditional" way around was by tour, but this generally was lots of countries in few days, with many photo opportunities, but very little time actually spent not travelling. Many people like ethis sort of travel, but having spent the last 25 years in Europe, I think it is a poor substitute for spending time in places.
Three weeks is pretty short, so either try to extend your stay, or reduce the number of destinations. You also need to work out how you are going to get around. You could feasibly do Amsterdam, Paris and a couple of Italian cities. It very much depends on your interests. I might be tempted to spend a few days in Amsterdam, move on to Paris for a week, then onto Italy. The scenic route might be train from Paris to Milan via Switzerland, then onto Rome.
Depending on budget, it might be advisable to look for apartment rentals in the major cities and use those as bases for further travel (e.g From Rome you could do Florence or Naples as day trips).
One "traditional" way around was by tour, but this generally was lots of countries in few days, with many photo opportunities, but very little time actually spent not travelling. Many people like ethis sort of travel, but having spent the last 25 years in Europe, I think it is a poor substitute for spending time in places.
Three weeks is pretty short, so either try to extend your stay, or reduce the number of destinations. You also need to work out how you are going to get around. You could feasibly do Amsterdam, Paris and a couple of Italian cities. It very much depends on your interests. I might be tempted to spend a few days in Amsterdam, move on to Paris for a week, then onto Italy. The scenic route might be train from Paris to Milan via Switzerland, then onto Rome.
Depending on budget, it might be advisable to look for apartment rentals in the major cities and use those as bases for further travel (e.g From Rome you could do Florence or Naples as day trips).
