grits1952

Hi everyone. My friends and I are trying to plan a 2 week trip to Europe (our first) next Spring (maybe late April, early May). There is quite a bit of anxiety on my part as I am expected to see to all of the planning. But my friends are great travelling companions because they never complain about the final details as long as they don’t have to set things up.

Our goal is to spend less than $5000 if possible. We want to fly from the USA to London, take the train to Paris and fly to Rome.
I have allowed $300 per night for hotel simply because I understand there may not be triple rooms in some places. What do you think about renting short term apartment space? We are all seniors (60s – 70s) and even thought our spirit is willing to walk, our various body parts are no always compliant. So we would like to be within a ¼ mile of the subway.
Transfers are not included because we may end up taking a taxi instead of the shuttle or metro.
Food was hard to estimate, but we have 2 Diabetics and they require something more than junk and snack food.
What do you all think? If it is not do-able we can adjust the trip. Rome could be deleted if necessary.

PLAN: 14 days total

Charlotte  London (4 Nights)  Train to Paris (4 nights)  fly to Rome (4 nights) fly home to Charlotte

‘Open –jaw’ flight - $1350
Train - $150
Hotel -- $1200 (12 nights at $300 per night divided by 3)
Tours - $600
Food $700 (50 per day - 30 for dinner, 10 b’fast & lunch)

TOTAL - $4000

Ackislander

$10 each for breakfast and lunch is too little, especially breakfast since the diabetics will require real food for breakfast, not coffee, juice and roll.

This will be easier if you stay in a hotel that has a lot of business travelers esp North European travelers, Germans, Dutch, and Scandinavians, since their breakfast buffets will include ham, hard-boiled eggs, cheese, sausages and so forth along with pastries and breads. Mercure and Ibis are two brands, especially Mercure, that offer this kind of food. These hotels are not quaint, but they re good value.

15 euros for the menu (fixed price) at lunch is more realistic, but you can certainly eat a reasonable dinner for less than 50, especially if you don't drink a lot.

msteacher

I like your plan of 4 nights in each city, and yes, apartments are a great idea for your group... will be cheaper than hotel, easier to sleep several single people, and will allow you to fix your own breakfast or other meals. Have you factored the cost of flight to Rome into your plans? Also factor in the time it will take to get to airport, wait for plane, arrive in Rome... a minimum of half a day. Wishing you a wonderful trip!

kybourbon

I would start in Rome, not London for several reasons. I like to get the longest flight/travel over the first day and recover from jetlag. In spring, I like to start in the south for better weather and work my way north. I would fly to Rome, look at budget flights from there to London and end in Paris. Flight departure taxes can be much higher in London so I would try to avoid that departure.

Four nights somewhere is really only three sightseeing days. If you are all retired, I would see if you could add a few days. One of the biggest costs is the transatlantic flight. If you are spending all that money on a flight, you might as well stay awhile.

>>> So we would like to be within a ¼ mile of the subway.<<<

Rome subways are quite limited. You want to be in the historic center. You can hop one of the electric buses that run through there and get to most places. With three people it will be just as economical to book a limo transfer (about 40€ for 3) from the airport to your hotel as taking public transport (train from FCO to Termini is 14€ each and you would still need transport to your hotel from the train station).

>>>Food was hard to estimate, but we have 2 Diabetics and they require something more than junk and snack food.<<<

I've traveled with type 1 diabetic and food really wasn't a problem. Insulin storage was more of a problem, but most hotels made some type of arrangement. They can pack some snacks things (nabs, etc.)in their luggage.

BigRuss

<<So we would like to be within a ¼ mile of the subway>>

So you're going to New York instead? There's no subway in Rome or Paris; the subways in London are for crossing major intersections like Oxford or Piccadilly Circus but are not for transport.

The metro in Rome is far less useful than public train systems in nearly every other large city in Europe. Get a bus map to determine the major lines. Central London and Central Paris are shot through with Tube and Metro lines, respectively, so proximity to one is not difficult.

The food budget is easier for London or Rome than Paris. Based on it, you cannot go to a full "restaurant" in Paris, bistros and brasseries only. These designations have specific meaning in France.

iowamom

I would suggest you pick two of the three cities - likely Paris and London since Rome is further afoot. This would allow you more opportunity to find an apartment to stay in - some require a minimum number of nights or charge a one-time cleaning fee regardless of the length of stay. An apartment should have a lower cost per person than hotels, allow for more space and more importantly, provide a kitchen to fix some meals or snacks.

nytraveler

I think you are underestimating food - esp since it sounds like you will want sit down meals - and a real breakfast - not grabbing a sandwich or slice of pizza on the run. I would double the food budget.

You can probably get decent triples for $300 per night if you shop around. And I'm sure you can get a hotel close to a subway or metro or bus - but not sure it will be that close on the other end. We usually find we walk 5 to 10 miles a day while touring. I'm sure you can do less than that - but I would assume you will need to do some taxis when public transit isn't convenient.

And agree that apartments are a better choice in terms of eating - although you don't mention the status of the people with diabetes - are they easily under good control - or do they need to be extremely careful in terms of food an drink. I would try to find an apartment part of a group - one that offers a front desk at least part of the time - to help you orient yourselves.

Christina

bigRuss' snarky comment was just that they use a different word for underground systems in some countries, I'm sure he understood you, as we all did. Metro is used in a lot of places, Tube in London, etc. I bet if some French person made a post about the metro in NYC, no one would say something like that.

As other said, your food budget is unrealistic. $10 is only about 7 euro nowadays. Not too many lunches you can get for that. If you book an apt, you can figure out what to eat for breakfast in and buy from grocery stores. Snack and junk food isn't really cheap, either, so don't think that, but that would be for between-meals anyway, I suppose. $50 a day (39 euro) really isn't a lot of money for all food and drink, which I think that is supposed to cover. Every drink you may have in a cafe or ice cream cone, etc., will cost you several euro. YOU can get some bottled water from grocery stores or vending machines for between 1-2 euro per bottle.

BigRuss

<<bigRuss' snarky comment was just that they use a different word for underground systems in some countries, I'm sure he understood you, as we all did. Metro is used in a lot of places, Tube in London, etc. I bet if some French person made a post about the metro in NYC, no one would say something like that.>>

Christina: quit whining.

Terminology matters. Don't call your around-the-waist money-holder a "fanny pack" in the UK.

And no, we wouldn't make that comment at a French person asking about the NYC transit because English isn't his/her first language.

adrienne

<< So we would like to be within a ¼ mile of the subway. >>

I would not choose a hotel based on this criteria because you'll be walking far more than 1/4 mile to see sights. And (as stated above) when you get off the subway/metro you'll be walking more than 1/4 mile. I would estimate that you may be walking 5 miles per day while sightseeing, although not at one time. Since you're not going for a year you have time to develop stamina.

If you're not used to walking a good pair of walking shoes (with orthodic) is an investment you won't regret. Leave those unsupportive sneakers at home.

More than the distance to public transportation I would be concerned with the stairs. Can you and your friends handle stairs? Several levels per trip? And then there's the standing around; more tiring than walking, I think.

Sometimes buses offer the best option rather than metro.

You're underestimating your food budget. Even though you probably don't eat a lot, given your ages, you will want to sit down sometime during the day and have a coffee, cold drink, ice cream, etc. This adds up over 2 weeks. Soft drinks are quite expensive in Europe. You could have beer or wine for less. At meals you can ask for tap water (although you might be turned down in favor of bottled water).

I always found that food and lodging was fairly equal so if you expect to pay $100/person for lodging I would have that amount budgeted for food. You don't want your first trip to be skimpy and not stop in a cafe in the evening for a coffee/wine and watch the activity in the streets and squares. That's part of vacation and the European experience.

Apartments are a good idea but even if you stay in hotels the diabetics could buy cheese and keep it in the room and have it for breakfast or go out to a convenience store and buy yogurt for breakfast (if the hotel does not offer these things). There are always handy convenience stores and supermarkets in cities.

Before you decide how many days and how many cities take a look at what sights you want to see and make a plan as to what you can do per day. There's nothing wrong with 2 weeks in London and Paris. I think 3 days in each of the 3 cities you've chosen is way too little. If you choose 2 cities you can take it easier and absorb more and linger longer. Sights such as the Eiffel Tower can take a half day or more.

Have you factored in sightseeing admission fees? They can add up to another $20 to $30 per day (depending on how many sights you'll see). In London, many museums are free but some do charge.

Enjoy your trip!

denisea

Don't underestimate the buses in Paris; very easy to use, no stairs, see more of the city and use the same ticket you use on the Metro. Can be quite convenient way to get around.

greg

The apartments are not direct alternatives to hotels. Be sure you understand the key differences between the two. The experienced travelers know when to use one and not the other.

The apartments come with stiff cancellation policy. Read the fine prints. You will be more likely to have to forfeit deposits if you need to cancel apartments. Don't book apartments until you have a solid thought-out itinerary.
The apartment managers/owners of the property don't necessarily live at or close to the properly, you must be at the assigned check-in slot to receive your key. The check-in time window can be quite narrow. Make sure your arrival logistics is compatible. The apartments also cannot keep luggage before check-in unlike the hotel front desks.
Apartments can lack elevators. Triple check if this is a crucial item and if the rooms are on upper floors. Also have a plan B if the elevator at the target apartment became non functional after your booking. Good agencies try to find an alternate comparable property at their expense. But if they can't, you need an already researched alternatives.

mamcalice

I think I would reconsider the idea of apartments since this is your first trip. A hotel staff is very handy to make dinner reservations, answer questions, provide directions, etc.

chapla

On the first day of each city I would definitely take the on/off bus tours!

iris1745

You can use this site to get a feel for costs in your destinations. www.booking.com

Micheline

Also venere.com and hotels.com.

grits1952

It is 1:40am so I hope this makes sense.

Wow! I want to thank everyone for all of the advice. It is giving me a lot to think about and some decisions to make. Forgive me for not answering each of you, but I want to keep it short.
We are all retired and fancy free so we have a lot of leeway as to when we book. We are planning on late April-early May, but we are also looking at late September 2014 – early October.
>> So we would like to be within a ¼ mile of the subway . Oops! I meant metro!

<< Have you factored the cost of flight to Rome into your plans?>> Yes, I looked at the different combinations of flights and all three legs are included.

<<< I would start in Rome, not London for several reasons>> <<. Flight departure taxes can be much higher in London so I would try to avoid that departure.>>
This is something I will discuss with my friends. I’m actually the only one who wants to go to Rome, so if we have to adjust out plans to bring the price in line we would drop Rome.

We all walk regularly. I do 3 miles three times a week. But I only do it because its part of my physical therapy.( I had hip replacement last October). I find stairs tiresome but not painful. But we’re all in pretty good health.

THINGS TO DO:
1.I am going to double our food budget to $100 dollars a day because we definitely want veggies at least once a day. If we start with a pretty good breakfast then lunch can be something light. This change would make our possible budget $4700.

2.Apartment vs hotel_- I have already started looking at Airbnb.com and vacationinparis.com for apartment prices. I actually saw several that might fit our needs quite well. It seems like London is going to have the highest room prices.

3.Limo transfer service prices –

bendigo

One of the great advantages of apartments is that it enables you to save food costs - even if it is just breakfast and an evening snack or coffee / tea / wine you have at "home".

Very very few linguistic skills aside from English, our first family trip was done London / Paris / Italy because we felt that it would be easier to start in a place where language wouldn't be a problem when we were dis-oriented after the long trip from Australia.

Have a look at The London Agent for London - I will link to the fantastic apartment we stayed in in Nov / Dec - elevator access, secure building in safe area, and less than 100 metres to Farringdon Tube Station, which is on the Central line, making all of central London an easy get - also only one or two stops to Kings Cross / St Pancras from where you catch Eurostar to Paris.

http://www.thelondonagent.com/Super-...ll-Home-2.html


We also used www.vacationinparis.com (for Paris) - US-based and great to deal with - but the apartment was a difficult walk-up in the Marais and probably not suitable for you gals.
This is it: http://www.vacationinparis.com/apts/id_18.htm

In Rome we used www.rentalinrome.com for a great apartment on via Monserrato near Campo de Fiori - again, maybe too many stairs for you, but a terrific location in the historical centre - Piazza Navona nearby, and a comfortable stroll to St Peter's.
http://www.rentalinrome.com/campodef...ricalapartment

Have fun - planning can be a drag, but I usually find it enjoyable as I build anticipation and learn enough about the destination to be an effective family tour guide!

bendigo

PS. We organised our London and Rome transfer through the apartment agents - prices are detailed on their websites.

Coquelicot

How many of you are there? That will affect your apartment vs hotel decision.

Hotel breakfasts are ridiculously expensive in France. You can pick up bread and pastries in a nearby boulangerie and skip the hotel breakfast.

You can get a cheap lunch by picking up a sandwich at a boulangerie or a Monoprix. You will probably want at least one solid meal a day,
and if cost is an object, lunch at a restaurant is cheaper than dinner at the same restaurant.

I hope you enjoy the planning stage. To me it's a lot of fun.