Princess

When reading on another website, a person who had visited Italy (Rome) several times, found that there were many changes, now, and not for the better! They mentioned that "loads of migrants were aggressively asking for money" and that it made them feel unsafe! They went to Florence, and then on to Verona where they left 2 days early because of this problem. They also experienced lots of pick-pockets while standing in the cues to museums and monuments. There was mention about the migrants being from the Balkans!

I've known that this was a problem back about 16 years ago, when Fodor"s had some messages on this topic. My husband and I really didn't have this experience as these travelers had, just recently! So, I'm wondering if others who have recently visited Italy have found this to be a real problem and do not feel safe?

flanneruk

I've not had this problem. Oddly, most beggars I've recently encountered in Italy have been Italian, of apparently pensionable age. The country's state funding of pensions was reformed 20 years ago, and it looks on the surface as if this means the European safety blanket isn't working for some older people in italy.

But I really can't understand why the poster seems to find being pestered for money somehow unsafe.

Italy's got a free economy - and appallingly slack rules on visual pollution - so it's plastered with ads wanting your money. Beggars are no more common in Rome or Palermo than the well-dressed younger "chuggers" in London who try to con you into largely spurious charitable donations, and one of the joys of being away from home used to be the lack of unsolicited phone calls from fundraisers or ambulance-chasing lawyers.

Now, of course, they phone you on your mobile wherever you are - meaning the con merchants from home increase your phone bill even if you tell them to piss off.

These people back home are all bleeding nuisances, and in a perfect world they'd be burnt at a convenient stake. But no-one feels threatened by them, though their mere pestering can cost you money.

The big difference between Italy's beggars and nuisance phone calls or chuggers is that Italy's beggars take "no" for an answer. They have no connection, as far as I've seen, with pickpockets.

Perhaps the poster might enlighten us as to what part of "no" she's unable to utter.

Blueeyedcod

What exactly are you worried about? That these people will rob you?

I think the wording on those other websites is actually wrong - what they should have said was these migrants made those people feel 'uncomfortable'. The privileged first world traveller confronted with people of different races and nationalities, desperately seeking a better life - while they head off for a spritz on rooftop terrace of their Rome apartment.

If it worries you that much, then stay home.

sandralist

I think if you are afraid of migrants and beggars you should really stay home. What is really polluting Italy's great cities is the waves of fathead tourists without a clue.

Italy has a long and colorful tradition of commercial advertising and graffiti. It is a public culture. It is not a culture of "rules", which in other European countries, is merely a self-flattering mask which the self-flatterers imagine covers their ugly face of incivility. They are pigs with perfume who don't smell themselves -- and they never follow any rules of courtesy when in Italy. They come to be the pigs they are, and we wish too they would stay home.

SJesN

I've met some beggars on the streets where they blatantly just asked for money. Also those people in the train stations that demands for money after they "offered" help. I felt very unsafe and was clutching my belongings like holding onto my life.

bilboburgler

Ah the dreaded Balkans....

No, not had that problem. My experience in Italy is that immigrants (illegal or not, just so hard to tell without demanding papers) generally act like the rest of us.

Beggars are the same the world over

Clearly there are gangs of Urchin type robbers all over Europe at high tourist spots. Again, outside of Singapore, a world problem.

I did notice beggars within churches in Italy recently (the tradition is to sit outside and ask for the uplifted's almsgiving) but I have taken a bunch of friends into a church and have a man sidle up to my SIL for money.

Yes I feel safe, do watch out for pickpockets in crowds/loaded buses etc. I find taking only on holiday what I don't mind losing is a good way of taking the burden off my mind

Rubicund

"and have a man sidle up to my SIL for money." Did you take the offer bilbo?

Don't take what others "felt unsafe" about as a problem. Many more people just ignored them.

bilboburgler

Rubicund, if he'd asked me we could have come to a deal...

Sassafrass

My first advice, at least for Europe, which I am familiar with, is to not take belongings of such value that you will be hanging onto them for dear life. I always wonder what people are carrying around that they are so concerned about that they need steel carriers.

The only thing I can see someone being really concerned about would be an expensive camera, expensive phone (we have a cheap phone for travel) or iPad type device. If you have those, then hang onto them.

Don't take expensive jewelry. If you feel you must, then take taxis.

Passports, credit cards and most money, we have under our shirts.

Certainly, guide books, water bottle, umbrella, extra sweater, sunscreen, tissues, and a few clothes are not worth lots of angst. If I felt my life was in danger over those things, travel would not be enjoyable and I would not go.

A few people asking for a bit of money, no issue.

dwdvagamundo

Good advice from Sassafrass, no matter where you are going. Get and use money belts. Leave as much as you can in your hotel safe. Why anyone would bring expensive jewelry--or any jewelry on vacation is a mystery to me--just more stuff you have to pack and look after. Don't carry a bag or purse if you can help it. However, if you must carry a bag or purse, keep a hand on it at all times. If robbers don't see a wallet or a phone or a camera or jewelry, they won't try to steal it.

Italy's the best country on earth to visit, IMO, and I wouldn't miss it just because someone might ask you for money or be thinking about robbing you. People ask for money here in Atlanta all the time--and from time to time they rob people-- but that's not going to run me out of town.

bvlenci

I've never had a safety issue in Italy, where I live, nor have any of my visiting friends and relatives.

I don't know how Flanner can be so sure that those elderly people he's seen with a hand out were Italian. The vast majority I've seen were Eastern European, mostly Rumanian.

The recent pension reforms had little or no effect on people already receiving pensions. The main provision raised the pensionable age to 66, or 40 years of contributions. The age disparity between men and women was also eliminated. The people most seriously affected were those close to retirement age, who learned they'd have to work longer.

bvlenci

There are plenty of people in Italy with very small pensions, but they are mostly people who retired long ago, when it was possible to retire in your 40s. If they're 90 now, the pension almost certainly is risible. And the minimum pensions in Italy are very low, especially for people living in large cities.

nytraveler

There is a huge difference between people (whoever they are unless gangs of threatening young men) begging and pickpockets.

In fact you are not in physical danger from either - although you naturally want to avoid losing belongings to the latter, which can be done with care of your belongings and avoiding a couple of the worst places for them.

If someone feels in real danger from these people - then they really should not be traveling - or doing so only with a tour group or a private guide that insulates them from the local culture and disperses any people that may approach them.

I have traveled all over europe - more than 100 trips - and have never come across beggars that couldn't just be ignored. Look right through them and keep walking. If they persist just shout no - and threaten to call the police - they will leave right away.

nochblad

I agree with bvlenci - never had a problem in over 30 years.

Italians, at least, have never been worried about wearing jewelry. But they know where they are going and are not the attractive target that tourists frequently are. Be alert, be prepared by knowing where you are going and especially if travelling by train buy your tickets in advance and avoid, if possible, the automatic ticket machines in big stations where there are always people hanging around to help and they can see where you have extracted your money or credit card from. Also avoid grasping or continually touching those parts of your body where you have your valuables. The pickpockets look out for this to know where to strike.

Regarding pensions I agree again with bvlenci. Also bear in mind that the greatest support to the elderly in Italy comes from their immediate family. This is one of the greatest strengths of Italy.

vincenzo32951

You mentioned 16 years ago, and Rome had a bad rep then for aggressive pickpockets and beggars. But they really cleaned it up in 2000, in time for the celebrations.

Been to Italy several times, including Florence and Verona. Never noticed the problem. The shady characters have gotten a little smarter, IMHO. They'll offer, aggressively at time, to help you with your bags or directions, in exchange for a substantial tip, the amount of which is revealed only after the transaction. Just say no, firmly. They do not want to attract police attention.

pariswat

I love when I read that one shouldn't wear jewelry or 'belongings of such value' to Europe...

I'm European, and no, my wife doesn't take out her jewelry when she goes to work, or to Paris, or anywhere in Europe.
We left those at home when we went to Mexico because we had read the same stories... Good to see everybody is someone else's Mexican (and I never felt ill at ease in Mexico), maybe in his next speech D Trump will talk about European immigrants being rapists, for a change.

Now I've read the same stories 2 days ago about Paris Gare du Nord, being full of immigrant begging...
I am every week in Paris Gare du Nord and have failed to see so many immigrants - the beggars I saw are all French, except one lately, who sounds British.

So I suppose it is the same in Italy. I guess people just like to post that they feel so unsafe due to all these poor people in third world countries like Italy. We didn't remove our jewelry when going to Rome last time (6 years ago), dind't see so many beggars, didn't get pickpocketed.
Guess we were lucky or we looked like beggars ourselves and were left alone.

So, pay attention to your belongings, don't walk half drunk with money in all your pockets and you may be fine.

scrb11

The new thing I saw in Cagliari were African immigrants standing by parking spots, directing motorists to open spots.

Not like they need any help to find open spots, which were right on the street. So presumably the drivers would feel compelled to tip them or something?

They all carried these windshield shades so maybe that's what they were trying to sell too.

If you refused to tip, maybe they'd vandalize the car.

Ackislander

The parking lot thing is like the homeless windshield washers that used to afflict New York. Interesting. Would I tip someone for showing me a spot in a crowded lot? Could happen, certainly more likely than my buying a selfie stick from him.

Sassafrass

I wear jewelry also in Europe, out to dinner, etc. It is not a problem for people who live there or are familiar and know where they are going, etc. but when people are traveling and distracted by sights and possibly looking at maps or reading a guide book or looking at street signs, unsure of where they are going, perhaps not used to crowded subways, my advice is still to not get bogged down by a lot of stuff you may worry about or something that might make you a target.

Without even thinking about having something stolen, I have met so many people who have lost something (left it in a taxi, on a bus, in a hotel room) and never found it. I lost a necklace on a cruise and wasted a good bit of time looking for it. It wasn't very valuable, but was a gift and I liked it. I was lucky and found it, but had we been in a hotel and leaving, with no time to look for it or enquire about it, I would never have got it back. Things can always be lost, but when you are traveling, there is more to keep up with. Especially for newbies or worriers, why add to your stress?

Dianedancer

sandaralist: "Italy has a long and colorful tradition of commercial advertising and graffiti. It is a public culture. It is not a culture of "rules", which in other European countries, is merely a self-flattering mask which the self-flatterers imagine covers their ugly face of incivility. They are pigs with perfume who don't smell themselves -- and they never follow any rules of courtesy when in Italy. They come to be the pigs they are, and we wish too they would stay home."

YOW! You're one angry something or other.

I remember when people thought NY Subway graffiti was "artistic". We who live here hated it. Sometimes couldn't even make out what train it was. Guess the admiriers were those who <u>weren't</u> from my city or who were but didn't take the subway.