We are traveling the first of June 2013 and I am curious to see the responses you get. Have you thought of doing the Scavi tour - the necropolis? I booked tickets for this based on a recommendation on this site.

@willowjane- That sounds interesting, thank you! I hope I get some responses too. What does your itinerary look like?

I don't have nearly as much planned as you do - we are taking my sweet mother with us and I don't want to overdo. I have downloaded EatRome and one other I can't remember.lol LowCountryIslander has great trip reports and great advice for food! The one thing my mother wanted to do was the scavi tour. After Rome we are going to Venice and then the lakes. Don't you think that planning is part of the fun!

June 1st – Saturday – Pantheon, Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps, the elevator (7€) up to the viewing platform at the Victor Emmanuel II monument,


June 2nd – Sunday – Borghese Gallery (Roma Pass) (tues-sun 8:30-7:30) ,Palazzo Doria Pamphilj (open 10-6),


June 3rd – Monday – Scavi tour (9am is booked) 1 ½ hours; Colosseum and Forum (Roma pass)


June 4th – Tuesday –. Schedule the Vatican Tour for this day with Walks of Italy for Vatican/Sistine Chapel, (afternoon open) dinner in Trastevare to see the area??

Sounds fun! I don't know if we'll make everything each day, but my must see's are all on your itinerary After Rome we are headed to Florence, Venice, Cinque Terre, & Pisa then off to France & London!

Where are you staying in Rome?

OH and planning is a lot of fun! I'll have to look at those apps, thanks for the tips!

http://www.vrbo.com/359819
Perhaps not the best location if I had it to do all over again but it will definitely work for us for price and room. What about you?

You're certainly packing a lot in here. For example you'd need an entire afternoon to visit the forum and Palatine Hill and Colosseum. A visit to the Capitoline museums requires another whole morning I think. Similarly your visit to St Peters may involve a long queue, even at that time of the morning, and perhaps even be disrupted by services, as it was when I was there on a weekday earlier this year. Since you also want to climb the dome I would plan an entire morning for that, have lunch and then tackle the Vatican museum in the afternoon, again involving long queues. Book ahead for as many of these big sights as possible, especially the Borghese Gallery where it is compulsory. You've obviously done a lot of research so I hope you enjoy your trip.

I'm looking into the Bee Hive

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g187791-d263860-Reviews-The_Beehive-Rome_Lazio.html

I am hoping it will be a good choice. I will be sure to look for your trip report this summer!

@mbloggs- Thank you for your input-I really appreciate the tips. How soon should/can I book for a end of April/early May trip?

The Vatican museums are usually much less crowded in the afternoon. If crowds bother you, go for the last entrance times.

Are you flying from the US and arriving jet-lagged? Have you ever been to Europe before? You will most likely find it extremely difficult to get up at 6am your 2nd day to head to St Peter's by 7am -- and that will go triple if it is raining that day. Your hotel will not give breakfast at that hour and you will not find a cafe open before 7.30. If you can make it through that morning without a cup of coffee, more power to you. Most people couldn't.

Several of the churches on your Sunday morning list are likely to have masses on Sunday morning that will make it hard for you to sightsee the church. If you really want to see the art work inside them, pick another morning to see them.

St Peter's and the Colosseum/Forum are on opposite sides of Rome. You can easily take a metro between them, or you could arrange your sightseeing with geography more in mind. For instance. the Pantheon and Santa Maria sopra della Minerva are about 50 apart, yet you've scheduled to see them 5 days apart. If you haven't already done this, you should take a map of Rome and put an X on it for everyplace you've got on your list. You can exhaust yourself in Rome walking around museums alone, so you don't want to be criss-crossing the town several times a day.

Finally, you should only go to Pompei if the weather is fairly nice. Drizzle is okay. Downpour is not. (A great many things on your list are only enjoyable if the weather is dry enough to be outdoors for extended periods.) If you are going to Pompei, you should seriously include a visit to the archeological museum in Naples as part of the same trip. You also might consider scrapping Pompei in favor of seeing Ostia Antica, much easier to get to. It really depends on your level of interest in Roman urban layout.

dealing with the queries backwards as it were,

@willowjane - i woud move the galleria doria pamphilj to the saturday - it's very close to the other things you are seeing on that day, which is not full at present and you may not fancy another gallery after you've seen the Borghese.

@vivi004 - your days seem very crowded and not entirely logical. Day 1 for example, you seem to be dotting backwards and forwards - Ste. Cecilia, then la bocca della verità, then Santa Maria - and i don't see any time for you to eat [a shame, the restaurants in Trastevere are very good]. BTW, do pay the fee to go into the crypt of Ste. Cecilia - go right to the end and you will find the most lovely mosaic chapel.

as others have said, Day 3 seems impossible, unless you go round everything at breakneck speed, which rather defeats the point.

i would get a good map of Rome, and your list of opening times, and try to rationalise your timetable!

I think you have too much scheduled on many days (especially arrival day). You need to get a map as some things you have listed would be better grouped on other days. You can't depend on church open/close times as they often change if they have something going on. Most will be closed several hours in the afternoon. The Borghese is not open on Monday.

You could save some money in Rome by grouping your more expensive sites and using the Roma Pass (30€). It gives your free admission to your first two sites, discounts after that and 3 days of transport (buses/trams/metro). The most expensive entrances are the Colosseum - 12€(includes the Forum and Palantine), the Borghese Galleria or the Capitoline.

http://www.romapass.it/p.aspx?l=en&tid=2

I would put the Borghese on Sunday (reservations mandatory even with pass - have to call) and the Colosseum/Forum/Palantine on Monday to make the best use of the pass. If you switch your Pompeii day to Wednesday, you could also use your Roma Pass for discounts to other museums on Tuesday (often half off). Check train schedules for May 1 before switching as trains might be more limited.

The museum prices listed won't be entirely accurate. Most museums will have an exhibit which increases the entrance cost. It will be included with the Roma Pass.

Link to museum prices. They may increase for next year.
http://www.romapass.it/doc/sitiAderentiCostoBiglietti_eng.pdf

good ideas, ky. I like the suggestion to group the museum days together to make best use of the pass.

Vivi - even if you don't save money with the Rpma pass, you should save time in being able to bypass the queues, the best example being at the Colosseum, where the non-ticket queue can be horrendous. with a pass or a ticket, you should just breeze through. [take the left hand lane through security, and keep going past all the sad people in the line for the ticket office!]

Wow. That's not a vacation, that's a forced march!
You're trying to cram more into 6 days than I've done on 4 trips to Rome.
What about time to sit with an espresso and relax? enjoy a local market? window (or real) shop? wander some of the old streets and marvel at the architecture? grab a slice of pizza and sit in a piazza? people watch? enjoy a cappuccino in a local bar?
There is so much more to travel than simply checking off sights.
You really need to cut the mandatory visits in half - at least. You have not allowed time for lines, security checks (yes, even to get into places that are free, you'll stand in line and go thru x-ray checks), traffic, time to get to and from...
I applaud your enthusiasm but sometimes the unexpected things that you experience on a trip are the ones you remember most.

what hollywoodsc said.

some of our Rome highlights have indeed been the unplanned - DS's delight at tasting spremuta di arancia sanguine [freshly squeezed blood orange juice] for the first time, finding a church with a nativity scene that exactly modelled the triangular courtyard outside, but with everything as it would have been in the 18C, the motorcyclist crying at the side of the statue of her favourite saint, DS's awe at seeing the colosseum for the first time and insisting on walking all the way round it before we went in...you can't plan for these experiences.

Thank you for all the replies, I REALLY appreciate it. My itineraries for trips are always ambitious, and I do end up NOT seeing everything on them. I did map everything out already, but I did this itinerary in July and can't remember my reasoning if something is "out of order". I have never been to Europe and the most jet lag I have experience is going from Minnesota to Arizona! So basically none. I will move things around and put everything on the map again. I didn't even think of Sundays and churches having mass. I'm an idiot. I will go through and repost. Again thank you, I always appreciate Fodor's giving me reality checks.

I didn't even think of Sundays and churches having mass. I'm an idiot.>>

no of course you aren't. you came here, didn't you?

I agree....you are trying to cram too much in. You aren't alone...it happens all the time, but you must resist the urge to do it or it will feel like the death march mentioned above.

I also agree with annhig that Trastavere has some great restaurants.

Especially on your first day....walk around and enjoy the sights but don't try to do a lot of activities. Start learning your way around and maybe take in a church or two. Maybe the Pantheon and Maria Sopra Minerva and Piazza Navona and Sant'Agnese in Agone. Those are all close together and will allow you to enjoy the fountains and Piazzas...get some gelato. Prepare to get lost (which is another issue with cramming too much in...you will get turned around a few times and that's stressful if you are trying to get somewhere fast.

Here is the link to our T/R frrom our recent (and first trip) to Rome, if you are interested in seeing where we went and what we did.
http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/the-accidental-tourists-the-adamsons-hit-rome-and-rome-hits-back.cfm

What should be cut out for a first timer trip to Rome? I am having a difficult time! Thanks in advance!

Thank you @Denisea! I know I need to be more realistic, but am not sure what I should cut, probably some churches?

If it were me, I would cut some or all of the following: Palazzo Farnesina, Santa Maria degli Angeli, Palazzo Massimo, Sant'Agostino and Galleria d'Arte Antica Palazzo Corsini.

Unless your hotel is in Trastevere, I would be tempted to leave Trastevere for another trip and to either spread out the other sites you want to see or add (I hate to say) something else.

Depending on the speed with which you go through St. Peter's and the Vatican Museums, you could also take in Castel Sant'Angelo, which is nearby and has a nice view from the top (ramps not stairs, for the most part).

Ok so here's a more geographically correct itinerary,in my attempt, if it's not I give up! I have also cut out a few things, what else would you suggest to skip? Again thank you for all the help, I really appreciate it.

Friday, April 26 Day 1
Pantheon
Santa Maria Sopra Della Minerva
Piazza Navona
San Luigi de Francesi
Trevi Fountain

Saturday, April 27 Day 2
Piazza Della Republica
?Santa Maria della Vittoria
?Santa Maria degli Angeli
Spanish Steps
Santa Maria Popolo
Villa Borghese Gardens
Galleria Borghese

Sunday, April 28 Day 3
San Pietro in Vicoli
Colosseum
Arch of Constantine
Basillica of San Clemente
Roman Forum
Palatine Hill
Palatine Museum

Monday, April 29 Day 4
Vatican
0700-St. Peter’s Basillica Free Entrance
0800-Climb the dome of St. Peters 7€ Tickets:__
0900/1000-Vatican Museums 15€ Tickets:__
Gianicolo Hill for the view
To Hotel Freshen up
Dinner around 1900 or 2000

Tuesday, April 30 Day 5
Capitoline Hill
Piazza Campidoglio
Capitoline Museums
Boca della Verita
Santa Cecilia in Trastevere
Santa Maria in Trastevere

Wednesday, May 1 Day 6
Pompeii Day Trip

What great advice you are getting! I am riding along and taking notes.

I know @willowjane! I have been reworking things for a couple of hours now. Now I want critiques on each city I am going to! haha. There is so much experience combined with all the travelers on Fordors, it is really helpful.

I hate to suggest something extra to add in, but if you did have time on day 1, very close to the Pantheon is the Galleria Doria Pamphilj - a stately home and marvellous art gallery/museum al rolled into one, and very few people.

worth thinking about if you find that you have the time and the energy.

Vivi, I have Galleria Doria Pamphilj on my list of visiting - I have had several people recommend this.

Annhig is right..we went to GDP on her recommendation and it was really wonderful. Not crowded and we were glad we went.

Regarding the churches, are you Catholic? Are their specific reasons you want to visit some of the churches you have listed? I would recommend going to Santa Maria della Vittoria to see Bernini's St Teresa in Ecstasy. It's a beautiful church. Santa Maria in Trastavere is beautiful and we regret not getting to the crypt at Santa Cecelia, so I get that.

Is Pompeii crucial? It's a long day trip from Rome. I have an alternative...take the train to Tivoli to see gorgeous Villa d'Este! The fountains are fabulous. You can also see the ruins of Hadrian's villa which is expansive and interesting. We really enjoyed both.

We skipped the mouth of truth, but it may be very important to you. For me, not enough to make it worth going there, but others may feel differently.

We were in Rome for 9 nights and didn't get to everything! Not even close.

Annhig is right..we went to GDP on her recommendation and it was really wonderful. Not crowded and we were glad we went.>>

I can see I'll have to stop mentioning it else when i next go in February it'll be too crowded for me to enjoy it.

<<We were in Rome for 9 nights and didn't get to everything! Not even close>>

Denise - a CoE vicar of my acquaintance had been to Rome no less than 50 times at the last count. Before I went for my first time I found this inexplicable; once I'd been just for one week, I understood completely, and wished I'd started going there before I was 50, because I'd deprived myself of 50 years of going to Rome.

I am Catholic, so that is one of the main reasons I have all the churches on my list, but I will not be heart broken if I don't get to them. I won't be sad if I miss things on my list, I will be in ROME!! My husband's one request was Pompeii, and it has interested me since my 6th grade social studies class, is it not worth the trip? Or should I just have an extra day in Rome!?

Vivi - you don't have to decide in advance. A day trip to Pompeii may be just the thing you need [see my response on your other thread] as an antidote to all the art you'll be seeing and trying to absorb. OTOH you may not feel like it or the weather may not be co-operative. I think that there are fairly fast trains there [you take the train to Naples then the circumnavigazione, I believe] and you might have time to fit in the museum in Naples on the way back, though I doubt it.

alternatively, a trip to Ostia antica or Tivoli [or Orvieto] might appeal more. you can decide this when you are there - no prebooking required, though it helps to know in advance how you could get to these places should the mood take you. Tivoli and the Villa D'Est would be very nice in late April, I should think.

Pompeii is definitely worth it Vivi004 if you have been interested in it since 6th grade!
We were just there in October and it is pretty incredible to think of how old it is and still there.
If you can it is worth going into Naples to the Archaelogical Museum to see all the mosaics and other things they found at Pompeii.

If you aren't doing a guided tour I would read up on it right before you go so you have a better idea of what you are looking at. We found the information at the site was pretty minimal.

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it! I think I'll keep Pompeii but keep annhig's suggestions in my notes. @annhig I appreciate your tips and I'll take heed to what you said about overload.

@annhig I appreciate your tips and I'll take heed to what you said about overload.>>

it's only that I've made the same mistake myself, many a time. it's somehow much easier to plan for someone else than for oneself.

re Pompeii, I think i remember reading here somewhere that you can hire a professional guide at the gate of Pompeii - the person who mentioned it seemed to think that it was a very good idea. you could search this board if you were interested in doing that.

@annhig... That is the danger of the undiscovered jewel (GDP)' isn't it?

I am sure Pompeii is worthwhile....it is a long day trip however, IMO. That's all I meant....not to imply it isn't worth going to. God luck with your planning.

Keep an eye on the weather when you get to Rome and plan your Pompeii day when it's not too hot (shade is hard to come by in Pompeii). If you have the energy, you might want to purchase the 20€ entrance ticket which would allow you to stop at Herculaneum on your way back to Naples (Ercolano Scavi stop on the Circumvesuviana train).

Pompeii has audio guides you can rent at the entrance (you will have to leave an ID with them so make sure you have it) or you can download some free guides (Rick Steves' guide is free on ITunes). There's also licensed guides at the entrance forming tours.

http://www.pompeiisites.org/

@denisea- I knew what you meant, sorry if I turned your words around, that's not what I tried to do, thanks for the luck! It will be a long day, I hope the weather is nice that day.

Thank you for the tips @kybourbon


Anyone have any suggestions for hotels under $150-$200/night? I have looked through trip advisor reviews but there are SO many options.

National Geographic Traveler recently did a piece on Rome b&bs that I bookmarked for myself:
http://intelligenttravel.nationalgeographic.com/2012/11/08/the-stay-list-rome-sweet-rome/

Thank you yorkshire-looking into your link now!

TTT

Try to get to the Vittorio Emanuele monument (Piazza Venezia) to take the elevator to the roof for spectacular views of the city in several directions (including the Roman Forum). On the front side of the monument (facing the piazza) is the tomb of Italy's Unknown Soldier.

Although I'm amazed by those who can follow the sort of schedule you propose (do you ever eat lunch?), I don't think you're going to see nearly as many of the things on your list as you hope, and there are so many amazing things you'll miss as you're running from sight to sight. Besides the view from the Vittorio Emanuele monument, off the top of my head I think of the Castello, Palazzo Massimo Terme, the mentioned GDP, Ara Pacis, the Appian Way.... Personally, I would leave Pompeii for another trip when you visit Naples, the Amalfi Coast and Capri.

@Jean- I was thinking about leaving Pompeii for another trip as well, still deciding. I don't expect to see everything on my list but I can try, by no means am I going to rush around to get from one place to the next- That's not my style at all, I like to enjoy my self take pictures, explore and experience things with my husband. My itinerary reminds me of my errands to do list- I always try to get more done than I have time. It never bothers me if something is not finished, so I'll make sure I get to the "major" things and then if there's time get to the rest. Does that make sense? I leave it on the list in case we want to keep going if there's time. I will take note of your sight suggestions, thank you for taking the time to look at my itinerary, I value all suggestions and opinions!

I am with Jean...I think I would do Pompeii another time.

You won't see everything no matter what. I like a day trip here and there, just to mix it up, Ostia Antica (very short train ride out of Rome), Orvieto and Tivoli are options that are closer.

I literally sat on the plane home and made a list of what we didn't get to! It just gives you a reason to go back. We were amazed by everything we did see!

Ok-some updates:
I booked the Relais6 for our hotel AND I talked to the husband and we decided to leave pompeii for another trip....now I am wondering if I should leave that day to Rome or add it to another destination (Normandy Coast, London, Paris) thoughts????

Re-cap your overall itinerary so we don't have to search the other threads.

6 nights Rome
3 nights Venice
3 nights Florence
2 nights Cinque Terre
6 nights Paris
3 nights Normandy Area
7 nights London

Sorry.

Listed another way:

5 full days Rome
2 full days Venice [Rome-Venice = 4 hours]
2 full days Florence [Venice-Florence = 2+ hours]
1 full day Cinque Terre [Florence-CT = 3+ hours]
5 full days Paris [How are you getting to Paris?]
2 full days Normandy [Paris-'Normandy' = probably 3+ hours]
6 full days London [How are you getting to London?]

Considered this way, your to-do list everywhere will be longer than the time you'll have, except perhaps in the CT.

The Venice lovers will say to add the day to Venice. Ditto the Florence lovers and Florence (for the option of a day trip into the Tuscan countryside), and you can never have too much time in Rome. Normandy, being a region and not a city, needs time to explore especially since you spend precious time renting and returning a car somewhere.

Your call.

One thing you should do is list your days everywhere in calendar format and make sure museums and the like are open on the days you're in the city. For example, if your two days in Florence are Sunday and Monday, you may have trouble. The Uffizi and the Accademia are closed are Mondays. The Bargello is open 7 days a week but only in the morning. The Medici Chapels are closed the 2nd and 4th Sundays of the month and the 1st, 3rd and 5th Mondays of the month.

I was planning on flying to Paris from Pisa on an easyjet flight, there is a train that runs from La Spezia to Pisa in the AM and the flight leaves in the afternoon.

Getting to London via Eurostar, after dropping rental car off in Paris.

Do you have a different/better suggestion? I am thinking I should add a day to Normandy just based on the time it will take to get to and from there, what do you think?

I decided to leave the day in Rome, I figure because the 1st day we'll be getting used to being in a foreign city and I think that will we a major settling in day for us, plus it makes my life easier since I have several things booked already

We arrive the same day and time as you (from Philadelphia)!

carolc

"I am thinking I should add a day to Normandy just based on the time it will take to get to and from there, what do you think?"

There are two ways to plan a trip. Decide how many days you'll spend in a place and then figure out what you can see in the time available -or- decide what you want to see and then figure out how much time that will require. If you can add time to Normandy, add time. But I would say the same thing about every destination on your list.

Others may comment on alternatives to the Eurostar for the Normandy to London leg. But, since you're flying to Paris, consider renting the car on arrival and seeing Normandy first. Then, return the car, see Paris and take the Eurostar to London.

The Relais6 on Via Tolmino?
If so, it's 1.36mi (2.2km) NNE of Termini, kind-off well off the tourist beaten track.

My bus map doesn't extend that far but it looks like there are 3 bus routes (60, 62, 84) that are very close or a short walk from that hotel that will run you anywhere between the Colosseum and St. Peter's.

"My husband's one request was Pompeii, and it has interested me since my 6th grade social studies class, is it not worth the trip?"

Do you really want to pass on Pompeii?

Is the total trip really 2:12 I'm assuming on the new faster train and then just catching the next Circumvesuviana (~40min)?

The train ride to Naples is relaxing and scenic plus you can can eat b'fast on the train (snack bar).

We never know what the future holds and there is always the possibility of not getting the chance to return and missing out on something that is a 'must see' for both of you?

My regret is Egypt which I always put off for later, now finances, a family medical situation, political unrest, etc makes it look like I will never get the chance again.

Just a thought.

Also I'm curious based on your religious interest in churches, is the Palatine Museum visit mainly to see the Alexamenos Graffito?
If not, don't miss it (Room 8 2nd floor).

And definitely book the Scavi tour.
If you book early it's likely you can get the 9:15 English tour timeslot.
That way an early St. Peter's Basilica visit and the possibility(?) to visit the dome beforehand (get in the ticket line early before the 8am opening)?
Or if not, at least you'll have the tickets to the dome for after the Scavi Tour.

Have A Great Trip!

vivi - on your Venice thread you have 3 full days worth of activities, ditto florence i think. but here you have only 3 nights [which = 2 days] in each.

3 into 2 don't go!

and Rostra makes some good points about Pompeii.

@Rostra- Thank you for pointing out the location of the hotel, for some reason I was under the impression that it was closer, that is my stupidity for not checking it on a map myself.

@annhig- 3 into 2 don't go? Sorry I am confused. I think I have half a day activities for each day 1 on those other itineraries.

I will leave the day open for pompeii, dependent on the weather. I think that is a better idea no?

Thanks for the help/suggestions!

@Carolsc- You are arriving on April 26th too? How long are you staying? How fun!

Considering how much you want to do/see, you might want to look at another hotel that is more central.
The historic center Rome is very walkable. Yes, you can take a bus or train in everyday but being able to walk out your hotel door and just go in the morning, or stop back in the afternoon for a rest can be very convenient.
Do you have a good map of Rome? Pick one up. I love the ones by 'MapEasy's Guide To...' (Barnes and Nobles carry them) They are water/tear proof and indicate restaurants, hotels, cafes, specialty stores... great resource.

I am looking at a more central hotel as I type. Thank you for the map tip, I was just thinking about where I should buy one!

I have MapEasy's for Rome, Florence, Italy, Paris...love em!
You can look at the area you want to be and see what hotels are there; if there are cafes and restaurants nearby, etc.

@annhig- 3 into 2 don't go? Sorry I am confused. I think I have half a day activities for each day 1 on those other itineraries. >>

sorry, vivi, i didn't mean to confuse you, it was just that on those other threads, you had been talking about days 1,2,&3 without [I think] mentioning there that at least the first half of the first day would be spent travelling. now I understand.

as for a hotel, i agree that central is best. have you thought about staying in a convent? [no, I'm not joking, many of them provide reasonably priced and central lodgings in Rome and elsewhere in Italy].

Here's the link:http://www.santasusanna.org/comingToRome/convents.html

i see that you are catholic, so this may have an extra appeal for you.

When you get your map use the mile/km scale on it and cut a piece of cardboard to the length of 1 mile.

The average walking speed is 3mph but slower in a crowded city (NY'ers actually average 2.9mph).
So a conservative estimate is that you can cover that 1mi distance in Rome in 30min.

So if you find a hotel that is outside the historic center that doesn't mean it's not centrally located as far as walking to the sites.

For most Rome sites the Piazza Venezia would be the ideal dead-center location for a walker but AFAIK no hotels are located there.

A poster on your Beehive post mentioned a hotel (forgot the name) that is ~0.5mi east of the Piazza Venezia that's not a bad location for walking plus the Via Nazionale is nearby and that is a major bus route.

With your budget staying near Termini isn't really that bad, with the metro and major bus hub in the Piazza there it makes getting around and back to the hotel fairly easy (Esp 'back', it's very easy to find a bus headed to Termini).
So for 6e a day for 2 you can get dropped at or near any major site and back again.

It's a safe area but not romantic like the historic center.

IMHO...best "non-St-Peters" church is Santa Prassede. Amazing mosaics...best in Rome...created by 8th c. artisans brought in from the Byzantine empire.

There are too many other things to do and see in Rome, so skip the other churches. After you've been to Prassede, the others you mentioned will seem drab.

http://www.sanderhome.com/Italy07/churches.htm

Second favorite: Santa Sabina -- 5th c. church in the Roman Empire (not medieval Christian) style. I've never seen anything like it. The doors purportedly have the earliest known depiction of Christ on the cross.

[Remember...this is just my opinion, so no flaming, please.]

SS

Some additional info on ssander's recommendations:

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-santa-prassede

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/rome-santa-sabina

You guys really are amazing to help a stranger out so much, I am baffled but very appreciative of all the tips, advice and help.

We decided to splurge (for us) for our hotel in Rome and booked the Relais Trevi 41 which is very close to the Trevi Fountain.

@ssander- those are beautiful churches, thank you!

IMHO...best "non-St-Peters" church is Santa Prassede. Amazing mosaics...best in Rome...created by 8th c. artisans brought in from the Byzantine empire.>>

sander - i won't disagree. We came across it whilst following Rick Steeves walking tour of mosaic churches. people flame him, but we'd never have found it otherwise. Better still there was a choir rehearsing in there - it was quite magical.

vivi - make sure that you have a stock of 50c and 1€ coins to put in the machines for turning on the lights in these churches. they often have special lighting for the mosaics, but you have to put money in a little machine to turn them on - it usually lasts 5 mins or so.

nice choice for the hotel - you will walk your socks off in Rome so staying somewhere central will be doing your feet a favour.

Off the subject of what to see, but do download Elizabeth Minchilli's restaurant app "Eat Rome" and katie Parla's app is also good "Rome Foodie"....both were extremely helpful for us.

We also did a food tour with Elizabeth that was great and the restaurant recs on the app were great to have. You can sort by neighborhood, which is super helpful.

vivi, we are only staying 3 nights in Rome (at the Relais Maddalena) then onto Tuscany for 8 nights in 2 different apartments (time split between Montepulciano and Lucca) with the last 3 nights in Venice (the icing on the cake despite the crowds!).

carolsc

carol - that sounds like a nice trip too!

ssander; No flame intended.
"Second favorite: Santa Sabina -- 5th c. church in the Roman Empire (not medieval Christian) style. I've never seen anything like it. The doors purportedly have the earliest known depiction of Christ on the cross."

There's a bit of a debate on that.
The doors have been heavily restored and reconstructed (parts added on).

And it's a hard call to connect the structure with crosses, the ^ section shows roof tiles and there are too many vertical supports |||.

While it does show Jesus and the two others from the crucifixion (the loincloths are a major factor), they are standing on solid ground and praying/worshipping in the orant/orans position.
The orant is very common in early Christian art and definitely has Pagan roots and possibly Jewish also.

It's believed that the nails and the small block of wood backing was a Medieval reconstruction.
http://tinyurl.com/cf4mwxe
As we can see the left hand of Jesus and smaller figure on the right also has an untouched left hand.

If originally meant to show the actual crucifixion in the orant position all the hands would have been nailed to a crossbeam, simply done by raising Jesus' right hand higher and lowering the 2 side structures n|^|n.
But that still leaves us with a non cross-like structure?
Also their feet would not have been on solid ground in a crucifixion scene.

Note the stone block wall has a window in the right ^ section and possibly the structure is an arcade along the wall or a seperate structure.

One theory is that it was a locally produced 'Passion Play' and the scenes are accurately portrayed locations (the stone wall & structures appear in another scene or two).

And the theory for the nails and small wood blocks;
By Medieval times the orant position was no longer used and the Mediaeval reconstruction artist altered it to show that it was a crucifixion scene to the uneducated masses.

Another scene on the door shows a man in the orant position and a Latin Cross
http://tinyurl.com/btwsjmm

For Christians sadly it seems IMO that the 1st depiction of the crucifixion is the Alexamenos Graffito (~200AD) in Rome.
Where a Pagan student/slave mocks a Christian student/slave for being Christian.

...I stand corrected...and now better-informed.

Thanks.

(But it is still a really cool-looking place.)

SS

There are 316 historic churches listed on the Rome tourism website. You can search by area if you want to group them together.

http://www.060608.it/en/cultura-e-svago/luoghi-di-culto-di-interesse-storico-artistico

Carolsc- If you feel like meeting up for dinner or something let me know! Since we will be there at the same time

denisea- Thank you for the app suggestions, my husband will love you for that!

annhig- good to know about the lights for the mosaics!

Now I am wondering what my best plan of action for visiting the Vatican should be if I have a confirmed Scavi Tour at 0915?? Any thoughts or suggestions????

2 things i would add to your itinerary:

1. San Giovanni in Laterano (Basilica of St John Lateran) - the most lavish of the churches I saw, huge and do not think it should be missed. The piazza by the same name was also where i got caught up in the riots last year in October (maybe that's why its so memorable)

2. Pincian Overlook - on a clear sunset evening, head to Piazza del Popolo and climb up to the top of the Pincian hill where there is a large terrace style area with fantastic views of Rome. Conveniently the stairs up to the overlook are right near Santa Maria Del Popolo which you are doing last on April 29...so you will probably accidentally astumble on it on the way back from Galleria Borghese like I did

Someone else also mentioned considering Castel St Angelo...I'd definitely agree with that suggestion.

Now I am wondering what my best plan of action for visiting the Vatican should be if I have a confirmed Scavi Tour at 0915?? Any thoughts or suggestions????>>

vivi - your 9.15 tour should be over by 10.45. you could then choose to book a tour of the Vatcan museums any time after 11.30 [allows for a bit of slippage and getting round to the entrance which is quite a hike] OR see St. Peter's, perhaps going up the Dome as well.

You can get straight into St. Peter's after you finish the Scavi tour, without having to go through security again, and touring it thoroughly and going up the Dome could take you up to lunchtime.

so depending on which option you choose, you could book the vatican museums for 11.30 onwards or 1.30.

I had mentioned Castel St. Angelo. The view from the top is great. There is even a little cafe at the top where you can get a ciocolatto caldo or a cold drink, depending on the time of the year.

I also recommend San Giovanni in Laterano. It is the Cathedral of Rome (the only one), and it is beautiful inside. I also found it to have a warmer, more accessible feel.

I had mentioned Castel St. Angelo. The view from the top is great. There is even a little cafe at the top where you can get a ciocolatto caldo or a cold drink, depending on the time of the year.>>

Delaine, honestly we thought that the view and the cafe were the best things about the Castel san Angelo, and you can get both of those on the top of St. Peter's. Yes - there is a cafe [at roof level ] in St. Peter's, and some toilets. you can find them as you cross from the top of the lift to the bottom of the Dome. It's a very interesting area, and worth spending a few minutes as you go up, or down. It's also a good place to wait for anyone who decides they don't want to go all the way to the top.

That is true, but the view is different, if you have extra time.

at a cost, Delaine - I thought that Castel San Angelo was very highly priced for what it was.

We thought the Castello had some of the most interesting history (nearly 2000 years) of any sight in Rome. Tomb to military fortress to papal fortress to papal residence to prison, appearance in Puccini's Tosca, military baracks and now museum, with lots of plots and intrigue along the way.

vivi; I known you have alot on your plate in Rome but with your religious interests you might want to consider the Basilica of St. Paul's Outside the Walls.
http://tinyurl.com/kndae6
http://tinyurl.com/bsq5zvc

Paul was a Roman citizen and entitled to an honorable execution and proper burial.

There is really no reason to doubt that early Christians revered his marked grave directly after his death right up until Constantine built the 1st church over it.
And that the Carbon14 Dated 1-2C bones fragments in the coffin beneath the basilica's altar are not his.

We thought the Castello had some of the most interesting history (nearly 2000 years) of any sight in Rome. Tomb to military fortress to papal fortress to papal residence to prison, appearance in Puccini's Tosca, military baracks and now museum, with lots of plots and intrigue along the way.>>

there we have it vivi - boring monument with a good view, or fascinating monument encapsulating 2000 years of Roman history.

you choose!

Haha Thanks for the info everyone!

You'll be pleased with your revised hotel location. I stayed at the Boutique Trevi Hotel last New Year's. Very easy to get to all the sights from there and perfect for ending the evening with a gelato and enjoy the fountain.

Thank you hollywoodsc, I think I will be too!

Do I need to book a vatican museum ticket or will the Scavi tour allow me access to those?? Just a little confused, can someone explain that to me please??

The Scavi Tour will allow you to skip the often times long security line into St. Peter's Basilica but no help with the Vatican Museums.

Either prebooking tickets thru the Vatican or joining a tour helps avoiding the line (someone can likely offer more info on this).

Also (don't quote me on this I've only seen this off-season) the line disappears in the afternoon and you can walk right in.

Alot of info and links on this thread www.fodors.com/community/europe/scavi-tour-pinpointing-entry-location.cfm

>>>Do I need to book a vatican museum ticket or will the Scavi tour allow me access to those?? Just a little confused, can someone explain that to me please??<<<

The Scavi is underneath St. Peter's. The museums are a good 15 minute walk from St. Peter's. To reach the Scavi office, you exit the piazza at #3 on this map and the office is #28. The museum entrance is not even on this map. To reach the museum entrance you would exit the piazza at #8, walk down Via di Porta Angelica and turn left on Viale Vaticano.

http://saintpetersbasilica.org/Exterior/SP-Square-Area.htm

You can see the museum entrance (marked by red arrow) and streets on this map.

http://saintpetersbasilica.org/Pics/Maps/Vatican-area-map.jpg

vivi - to make it even clearer, at the end of the Scavi tour you can gain entry to St. Peter's without going through security again.

entry to the Vatican museums [the only way to get into the sistine chapel unless you're a cardinal] is entirely separate and you have to walk a long way round the side of the walls of the Vatican away from the front of St. Peter's to get to the museum entrance.

the only point they have in common is that there is a door at the back of the sistine chapel [which is the point of the museums furthest away from the entrance and can take several hours to reach is you look at all the exhibits thoroughly - or get lost like we did] which if open you can use to get down into St. Peter's without walking all the way back round the walls and going through security again.

entry tickets for the scavi tour and for the museums are entirely separate.

You should eat at Ciccia Bomba when you visit the Piazza Navona area. It was one of my best meals when I was in Europe.