Restaurant Manners
Jun 28th, 2005, 10:38 AM
#1
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Restaurant Manners
I am going to Florence in July. I understand that the beef is superb in italy. Will I offend the chef if I ask for my steak medium well? Also, how do you say this in italian and french because I will also be visiting paris?
Jun 28th, 2005, 11:06 AM
#2
I suggest getting a phrase book that has a listing of common restaurant words. You will most likely need more than just that one phrase. For instance, do you know the words for beef steak in Italian and French? Remember horse steak is an option sometimes too.
Jun 28th, 2005, 12:43 PM
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For meat:
Medium:
- Italian: <i>a puntino</i>, or <i>normale</i>
- French: <i>a point</i>
Well done:
- Italian: <i>ben cotto</i>
- French: <i>bien cuit</i>
"Medium-well": I'm not sure. I suppose you could just use "between medium and well-done":
- Italian: <i>Tra a puntino e ben cotto</i>.
- French: <i>Entre a point et bien cuit</i>.
I don't know if the chef will be insulted. Historically, France has not been renowned for its beef, which is why they invented all those great sauces. But that has probably changed.
- Larry
Medium:
- Italian: <i>a puntino</i>, or <i>normale</i>
- French: <i>a point</i>
Well done:
- Italian: <i>ben cotto</i>
- French: <i>bien cuit</i>
"Medium-well": I'm not sure. I suppose you could just use "between medium and well-done":
- Italian: <i>Tra a puntino e ben cotto</i>.
- French: <i>Entre a point et bien cuit</i>.
I don't know if the chef will be insulted. Historically, France has not been renowned for its beef, which is why they invented all those great sauces. But that has probably changed.
- Larry
Jun 28th, 2005, 01:01 PM
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By the way, notice <i>ben cotto</i>, which literally means "well cooked". Using the Latin prefix "bis", meaning "twice", you generate the word <i>biscotto</i>, a piece of bread cooked twice to make it crisp. The plural is <i>biscotti</i>.
In French, "twice cooked" is <i>biscuit</i>, which word we have stolen for the English word for this object, biscuit.
- Larry
In French, "twice cooked" is <i>biscuit</i>, which word we have stolen for the English word for this object, biscuit.
- Larry
Jun 28th, 2005, 01:05 PM
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Hi Kendra,
May I suggest that the point of going all the way to Florence to have Steak Florentine is to have it the way they make it in Florence?
Ditto for Paris.
In Italy have it "a puntino", in France, "a point".
If you make them overcook the meat it will be tough.
May I suggest that the point of going all the way to Florence to have Steak Florentine is to have it the way they make it in Florence?
Ditto for Paris.
In Italy have it "a puntino", in France, "a point".
If you make them overcook the meat it will be tough.
Jun 28th, 2005, 02:06 PM
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Not sure how to request a steak "medium well" in Florence but in answer to your question, you just might offend the chef. As previously noted, the tradition and practice is to receive a thick steak cooked rare when ordering bistecca fiorentina. They are quite proud of their meat and are certain of their cooking style.
Personally, coming from the US, I don't see the attraction, especially since it is always at a premium and at those prices, you can get excellent beef here. But your choice and expect an argument for well done!
Cheers, Paul
Personally, coming from the US, I don't see the attraction, especially since it is always at a premium and at those prices, you can get excellent beef here. But your choice and expect an argument for well done!
Cheers, Paul
Jun 28th, 2005, 02:07 PM
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Never, never, never worry that the waiter or chef will be offended about the manner in which you order your beef, or anything else for that matter. Whenever a waiter mentions that the chef recommends it ..... My response is "Excellent, but I prefer mine....." Remember you are the customer and you are paying the bill.
Jun 28th, 2005, 02:26 PM
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The Tuscan -- or French -- chef probably will *not* be pleased, but I'm sure he's used to such requests.
But do bear in mind that "a puntino" translates to "to a turn", "nicely", or "properly", all words that a Florentine chef is unlikely to interpret as "medium well-done." It may not be grammatically correct, but I'd ask for "medio ben cotto".
And here in French-speaking Montreal, "a point" means "medium-rare". Again, grammar be damned, and ask for "moyen bien-cuit".
I would, however, agree with all the previous posters who have indicated that asking for a "bistecca alla fiorentina" or a "bifteck" medium well-done runs counter to the whole idea and essence of the dish. Maybe you should consider having something else...
But do bear in mind that "a puntino" translates to "to a turn", "nicely", or "properly", all words that a Florentine chef is unlikely to interpret as "medium well-done." It may not be grammatically correct, but I'd ask for "medio ben cotto".
And here in French-speaking Montreal, "a point" means "medium-rare". Again, grammar be damned, and ask for "moyen bien-cuit".
I would, however, agree with all the previous posters who have indicated that asking for a "bistecca alla fiorentina" or a "bifteck" medium well-done runs counter to the whole idea and essence of the dish. Maybe you should consider having something else...
Jun 28th, 2005, 02:41 PM
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Beef in europe is traditionally served VERY rare - almost mooing - becaue usually its not that good and to cook it any more makes it too tough to enjoy.
If you ask for anything more cooked than rare you are likely to get something resembling shoe leather - and esp in France a lot of funny looks.
(I only ordered steak once in France and I wanted it medium rare - to them that was well done - and it was quite tough - even in a very expensive "Argentinian" steak place.)
If you ask for anything more cooked than rare you are likely to get something resembling shoe leather - and esp in France a lot of funny looks.
(I only ordered steak once in France and I wanted it medium rare - to them that was well done - and it was quite tough - even in a very expensive "Argentinian" steak place.)
Jun 28th, 2005, 02:45 PM
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While I prefer my steaks RARE, I'll argue the point about asking for it the way you want it done.
Last summer the two sisters who own the apartments we stayed in, in Montepulciano sent us to a great little local steakhouse. They are something like fifth generation in the town -- you don't get much more authentic Tuscan than they are. But when they sent us there, one warned us that the steaks are normally very rare and started telling us how to order them well done -- not because that's how she thought we'd want them, but because that's how SHE always orders hers. Now if she can go to a restaurant and order bistecca fiorentina well done, I don't think Joe Schmoe from Peoria should be concerned about doing it as well.
To say that all Tuscans eat their meat rare is just as absurd as saying all Parisians only wear black or all Germans are excellent drivers!
Why don't some of you people start enjoying life and do things the way you want instead of worrying so much about what others will think, or what SHOULD be done for the sake of some false sense of conformity? There's a difference between "when in Rome" and forcing yourself to eat something that could actually make you sick. (And a person not used to it could easily get sick from eating a big RARE steak).
Last summer the two sisters who own the apartments we stayed in, in Montepulciano sent us to a great little local steakhouse. They are something like fifth generation in the town -- you don't get much more authentic Tuscan than they are. But when they sent us there, one warned us that the steaks are normally very rare and started telling us how to order them well done -- not because that's how she thought we'd want them, but because that's how SHE always orders hers. Now if she can go to a restaurant and order bistecca fiorentina well done, I don't think Joe Schmoe from Peoria should be concerned about doing it as well.
To say that all Tuscans eat their meat rare is just as absurd as saying all Parisians only wear black or all Germans are excellent drivers!
Why don't some of you people start enjoying life and do things the way you want instead of worrying so much about what others will think, or what SHOULD be done for the sake of some false sense of conformity? There's a difference between "when in Rome" and forcing yourself to eat something that could actually make you sick. (And a person not used to it could easily get sick from eating a big RARE steak).
Jun 28th, 2005, 02:58 PM
#17
>Why don't some of you people start enjoying life and do things the way you want instead of worrying so much about what others will think, or what SHOULD be done for the sake of some false sense of conformity?<
Amen!!
Amen!!
Jun 28th, 2005, 03:05 PM
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Sorry if I got a little riled up there, but lately all the posts about worrying that you might mispronounce a word in a foreign language (horrors), or that you HAVE to wear high heels on cobblestone streets to look like you belong, or you must wear all black even if the sun is shining and it's 90 degrees, or all the other concerns about the horrible possibility of being discovered as NOT being a local have just become a bit too much for me. Now to suggest someone shouldn't try a local specialty cooked slightly different to match his own tastes was just too much.
So? Most fine restaurants in the US balk at preparing a steak well done too, but if that's what the customer wants he has every right in the world to order it that way. That fact is no different in Italy!
So? Most fine restaurants in the US balk at preparing a steak well done too, but if that's what the customer wants he has every right in the world to order it that way. That fact is no different in Italy!
Jun 28th, 2005, 03:07 PM
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Obxgirl: (Does that stand for "obnoxious girl"...?!?) You will find this difficult to believe, but many of us are not concerned at all with what "SHOULD be done", but rather with getting the best experience available of the local culture.
But I do understand that for many Americans, their absolute, unfettered freedom to do things "the American way" takes precedence over every other consideration. I wish them well...
But I do understand that for many Americans, their absolute, unfettered freedom to do things "the American way" takes precedence over every other consideration. I wish them well...
Jun 28th, 2005, 03:18 PM
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Patrick - obviously everyone has the right to order food any way they choose. But it is - perhaps - only fair to warn them in advance - of what they wil be served. In the US you can get medium well steak that is edilble.
Medium well in europe would not be the same as in the US - it would be less well done - and might still be tough.
What we consider medium well most people in europe would consider well done - and might well be inedible/unchewable.
If - knowing this - someone chooses to order it medium well or well done - fine - but at least they are operating with some pertinent info - and are less likely to have an unhappy surprise.
Medium well in europe would not be the same as in the US - it would be less well done - and might still be tough.
What we consider medium well most people in europe would consider well done - and might well be inedible/unchewable.
If - knowing this - someone chooses to order it medium well or well done - fine - but at least they are operating with some pertinent info - and are less likely to have an unhappy surprise.
