jsmith

The raging blizzard and the lack of the Sunday paper has given me a chance this morning to revisit the Wall Street Journal Weekend Edition of Feb 11/12.

One article on the Opinion page by Theodore Dalrymple is titled "An Update From France ...(Remember Those Riots?)". Anyone who has read any French history (The Seven Ages of Paris is very readable) knows that "periodic explosion has long been the means by which French society has undertaken major political and economic change......For the moment, the banlieues are quiet: That is to say, only 100 cars a night are burned.....But there is an underlying anxiety".

Now for the kicker, "the French take more tranquillizers than any other nation". See, they aren't reserved but stoned.

tod

Thanks j,
You've solved the mystery of the glazey-eyed receptionist in some hotels!

Cato

What is all this burning of cars all about?

ira

Hi C,

It's old history. Something that happened last year. Don't worry.

USNR

My wife and I were there all through the "disturbances," staying in a rented apartment in the 15th arr. We never saw any sign of trouble nearby, only the TV pictures of burning cars in the suburban ring areas, finger-pointing by politicians shouting at the top of their lungs, and "talking heads" on interview shows.

As others have said, occasional violence is a hallmark of Parisian history. When we asked our Parisian neighbors about the scenes on TV, we were greeted with a shrug of the shoulders, a thrust-forward lower lip, and upturned palms -- il n-ya pas de quoi. It means nothing.

We think they are wrong -- especially with 6 million unassimilated Muslims within their borders, no political will to make changes, and a repressive regime at the Ministry of the Interior. We shall see. Wait until spring.

Tulips

You must read Theodore Dalrymple's 'Our Culture, What's left of it'. In his 2002 essay 'The Barbarians at the Gates of Paris' he practically predicts last year's riots.
In his 2004 essay 'When Islam Breaks Down' he says: 'in my experience, devout Muslims expect and demand a freedom to criticize, often with perspicacity, the doctrines and customs of others, while demanding an exaggerated degree of respect and freedom from criticism for their own doctrines and customs'. Sounds familiar? These are only two of the essays in this excellent book.

The_Pixies

Thanks Tulips - you gave me a new word of the day. I had to look up Perspicacity!

I'll try to make it a part of the lexicon now........

Tulips

Must admit that I had to look the word up too (but I'm not a native English speaker, so that's my excuse). Still, I absolutely loved this book; every chapter, especially the one titled 'Thrash, Violence and Versace, but is it Art?'

USNR

Perspicacity? Better to use the old Anglo-Saxon term: shrewd.

jsmith

Ira, sorry to disillusion you but the 100 cars a night being burnt is RIGHT NOW, not last November.

I'll quote a little more of the essay:

"The French do not go to the banlieues, but what they fear is that the banlieues will come to them. Perhaps it is starting to happen. My nephew and a friend of his were walking through the Bois de Vincennes, overlooked by elegant Parisian bourgeois apartment blocks, when they were set upon by two Africans and three Arabs. They were not badly injured, but at the hospital their mothers were told by the staff that such attacks, carried out not for gain but for the sheer pleasure of revenge upon the hated comfortable French, were now commonplace."

Mr. Dalrymple most recent (2005) book is "Our Culture, What's Left of It: The Mandarins and the Masses". Is this the same as your reference, Tulips?

Tulips

Yes, that's the book. I've just finished reading it. The essay in the book about Paris was written in 2002; the Wall Street Journal article must be an update of that.

kerouac

Actually, the normal number of cars burned per day in France is 90, based on about 32,000 cars burned every year. Strangely enough, Strasbourg is the main area for burning cars and always has been.

It is disappointing to see that people are still talking about the riots as though there were religious matters involved -- there was absolutely 0% religion in the riots and about 95% unemployement and discrimination. Even now, with the "cartoon controversy" and 4 French newspapers that published them completely or partially, the Islamic population in France is in acceptance of the values of the country in which they have settled and are not demanding any special treatment -- just to be treated like other French people. I happen to live in one of the most densely immigrant neighborhoods in Paris, and the veiled women walk side by side with their daughters or sisters with thongs and visible navel rings. It is a question of personal choice and personal freedom, and one thing that is taken to heart in France (unlike the atmosphere of the southern US state in which I grew up) is the attitude of "live and let live."
Poverty and the behavior spawned by it are something else entirely.

ira

My dear J,

>Ira, sorry to disillusion you but the 100 cars a night being burnt is RIGHT NOW, not last November.<

Sorry. I thought that you were discussing the recent Paris riots.

100 cars per night in all of France is about the usual rate. Some are burned for the insurance, some as simple vandalism, some by accident and some as protest.

Before we get too excited over problems in France, we might wish to consider that 10 churches were destroyed by arsonists in Alabama this month.

AnthonyGA

The vandalism (it wasn't really rioting, despite the attempts of media and demagogues to claim otherwise) was always limited in extent, and it was 95% young, angry male losers who wanted to be on television, like the other young, angry male losers. It wasn't unemployment, discrimination, religion, or anything else. Just a free-for-all by the dregs of society. It happens now and then, and it is encouraged by the media and by people who hope to make political hay of it.

kerouac

I am curious about one point on all of this media coverage -- the use of the word "banlieue" rather than "suburbs". Not translating the word would seem to imply that some people think that suburbs are always nice places with lovely houses and basketball hoops on the garage door. Using the word "banlieue" makes it a mysterious place of decrepit housing projects and alien ways, probably the way that Americans describe the meaning of the term "inner city" -- strictly the opposite of Europe.
The real clash of cultures is more the way cities have evolved on different continents -- the traditional method of money flocking as close to the center as possible and leaving the poor in hovels outside the walls, or the new method of leaving the core to rot and the money escaping in concentric bands to greener pastures. I would be very interested in reading a sociological study concerning the dynamics of this evolution.

PatrickLondon

There is always, of course, a question as to how a society gets to have dregs, how many people get to end up in that category, and how it is possible for them to get out of it.

Intrepid1

And there is also the tendency, by some, to blame absolutely everything on the so-called "dregs" of society..it's so easy to assign the blame and then forget about it.

Art_Vandelay

Yes, 90-100 burned cars a night is the standard. Big deal. How many homicides a night in the US? I would hate to see my motorbike burned, but I happier to know that the motorist I am overpassing does not have a gun in his glove compartment.

Jed

A lot of discussion without facts.

How do the US and France compare with daily homicides and car burnings?

Indeed, it is easy to assign blame. Whether it is society or the dregs of society, or combination, can be debated forever, and no one will change his/her mind.

And before we discuss the church burnings, let us wait to see who are the culprits and what American justice will do. Will it prosecute the culprits or will it promise to listen to their grievances?