cpdavey

My wife and will be in Europe in June. We plan to fly into Paris, spend five nights, train to Geneva for three nights with relatives, train to Venice for two nights just for the heck of it, then train to Vienna for five nights for a conference. That's three days of train travel.

I've tried to compare rail pass to point-to-point tickets to see which is better value (assuming we want to travel first class throughout). But I'm not sure I'm getting accurate prices for the legs involving travel in Italy or that I'm thinking this through correctly.

The four-country, five-day Eurail pass would be $445 per person. Add approx. $50 for reservation fees for the three legs (TGV res. fee of $27; $11 each for train to Venice and bus/train to Vienna [not sure if a separate res. fee is needed for the bus leg to Austrian border and the train leg into Vienna, but I'm assuming not]). So, approx. $500. Plus two extra days of train travel we could use for local trains in Switzerland or Austria. Plus the flexibility of being able to hop another train if we happen to miss our reserved one (I'm assuming here that if we had point-to-point reserved tickets and missed a train, we'd have to purchase new tickets for a later train, but perhaps that's incorrect?)

For point-to-point, I calculated the following:
Paris–Geneva–Nyon: 91 Euros
Nyon–Venice: approx. 151 Euros
Venice–Geneva: approx. 112 Euros
At current exchange rate, that's about $503.

Given the extra flexibility I get with the rail pass, that seems like the clear winner. Am I missing something, though? Any thoughts or advice would be most appreciated!

Sarastro

Where are you finding these prices?

I find Paris to Nyons for travel next month at 57.50€ for first class.

Generally, the best prices are available 90 days before travel:

www.tgv-europe.com

To avoid Raileurope, select the UK as your residence and pickup tickets at the station before you depart.

cpdavey

Perhaps it's the day I'm traveling. I just checked again and was quoted 181.20 € (price for 2 tickets, 1st class) for Sat, 18 June, 13:09 departure.

I tried several other dates but couldn't find any prices even approaching 57.50 per ticket.

fmpden

Again, which site are you using for your prices? If you have a reserved seat on train with a rail pass you have to go get another seat reserving. You cannot just hope on another train unless it is a train does not require seat reservations. If you miss a p2p ticket train with reserve seats you have 90 minutes to get next tickets at a ticket window unless it was discounted ticket with restrictions.

kybourbon

I think your supplement fees are just a bit off for Italy. 10€ or $14.17, not $11

Check sbb.ch for discount fares to Venice (1st or 2nd cl) although it may be too early for June. You can also buy discount tickets between Italy /Switzerland on Trenitalia for 2nd cl(you must pick up the ticket in Italy). I entered a random date the end of May for Venice/Geneva on Trenitalia and selected the Smart fare (29€). Trenitalia's schedules are not online for summer yet (only through June 12 currently).

>>>Plus the flexibility of being able to hop another train if we happen to miss our reserved one<<<

You would have to get another seat reservation (or change) so not all that flexible.

>>>>Nyon–Venice: approx. 151 Euros<<<

I entered a random date for this leg and came up with 133chf 1st cl(66chf 2nd cl or discount 2nd cl for only 39chf). 133chf = $145. You've listed the price in € (145€=$205). I think your prices are off because you are mixing currencies or you are pricing your Swiss tickets somewhere other than the Swiss Rail site.

cpdavey

Paris–Geneva–Nyon: 91 Euros [I got this price from the TGV site]
Nyon–Venice: approx. 151 Euros [I got this price from the Italian rail site; the sbb.ch site quoted me 204 chf for travel on 7 June, a Tuesday like the day I'll actually be traveling]
Venice–Geneva: approx. 112 Euros [I got this price from the ÖBB (Austrian Rail) site]

I didn't see any discount for the Nyon-Venice leg, but then I want to leave Nyon around 7:00 so I arrive in Venice midafternoon. That probably explains why I'm getting a higher rater than kybourbon.

Man_in_seat_61

Paris-Geneva starts at as little as 29 euros, rising to more like 90 euros 'on the day'.

If you book a couple of months in advance, it's not difficult to get the 29 euro rate, which includes reservation. Add a 'freesale' ticket Geneva-Nyon which you can buy at the station, get the price from www.sbb.ch.

For fares in Itay see www.trenitalia.com, which should slo give fares to Vienna. Again, there are cheap 'smart price' fares if you book in advance, from 69 euros with bed in 2-bed sleeper (and with a railpass, a 2-bed sleeper is around 50 euros supplement per person, so the pass is only saving you 19 euros if you get the cheapest fare)

kybourbon

You can't buy the Nyon-Venice leg on Trenitalia because you would have to pick up the ticket in Italy. You have to purchase that leg on sbb.ch and pickup in Switzerland.

You need to price/buy your tickets on the country's website that you are departing from that day. I don't know why you would even look at the Austrian website for tickets between Italy/Switzerland. Discount tickets are country specific and will only show up on that country's website (Smart fares on Trenitalia, Go fares on Swiss).

Pricing a day you aren't actually traveling doesn't tell if a discount is available. You will have to look at the actual day/time. Usually there is a time frame they are available (2 months before until 1 week before or something similar).
Nyon-Geneva - sbb.ch
Venice-Geneva - Trenitalia

From Trenitalia about Smart fares to Switzerland:

>>>>14 days train connect Italy to Switzerland
Trains leaving every day:
from Milan to Basel, , Geneva and Zurich and return from Venice to Basel, Geneva, Lucerne
For all the departure and arrival times, to know all the stations stopped at and for the connections, see the timetable.
The tickets can be bought on this site and picked up from the self-service tellers in the stations. Find out how easy it is buying and picking up a ticket.
Remember that if you buy a ticket for a train Italy/Switzerland up until 13 days before departure, you can take advantage of SMART price.
Please note: the offer has limited places and is subject to restrictions. <<<<<

Vienna info:
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

I would also check some of the airlines between Geneva/Venice (Baboo flies this route - 1 hour) since it's such a long train trip.

PalenQ

OP says they want flexibility to take any train as they do along - thus all the discounted tickets are restricted as to changes and refunds I believe.

For fully flexible first-class fares for this type of route I would strongly consider the Eurail Select Saverpass 4-Country pass - and then dictate your train schedules as you go along.

The flexibility of a pass in places like Switzerland Austria to hop any train and in Italy easily make required reservations.

Oh well the Fodor mantra that railpsses are always terrible is pervasive it seems - lots to point out online discounts but little pro about passes. Well I have used hundreds of passes in those countries and just enjoy the ability to dictate my schedule as I go along not set it in concrete weks in advance (which if you want to do may well be a better deal).

For great info about European trains and passes check out these fantastic sites - www.seat61.com (Man in Seat 61's commercial site - he posted above on this thread); www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and for Switzerland www.swisstravelsystem.com.

PalenQ

Plus the flexibility of being able to hop another train if we happen to miss our reserved one (I'm assuming here that if we had point-to-point reserved tickets and missed a train, we'd have to purchase new tickets for a later train, but perhaps that's incorrect?)>

You are indeed correct and many subsequent posters, who were trying to be really helpful, failed to note this!

Sarastro

<i>I'm assuming here that if we had point-to-point reserved tickets and missed a train, we'd have to purchase new tickets for a later train, but perhaps that's incorrect?</i>

For some tickets that is correct, for other types of tickets that is incorrect.

Clearly PalenQ you are a railpass devoté. Many years ago, I too used rail-passes but their high cost dulled their luster. Since the introduction of the TGV and reservation fees and the fact that many trains limit available seats to pass holders, even their advantage of flexibility has diminished. In the internet age giving people instant access to the discounted fares of Europe´s national rail systems, railpasses are simply no longer the cost effective travel option that they once were.

Certainly the best rail ticket prices are usually available with advance purchase but people buy airline tickets well advance and arranging rail travel to coincide with their air travel and limited vacation time is really not that difficult and offers tangible cost savings.

Still, it is good that you are here to alert us to any special aspect of pass travel, something that might otherwise be overlooked but could be helpful to some readers.

kybourbon

>>>You are indeed correct and many subsequent posters, who were trying to be really helpful, failed to note this!<<<

I guess you failed to read fmpden's post early in the thread. You can't just hop on another train with or without a pass on much of the OP's route since many of his trains require seat reservations. The OP wanted price info and that is what was given. I fail to see how pushing a 1st class pass gives the price info requested.