Question regarding working in France
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:03 PM
#1
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Question regarding working in France
Hello,
My company here in the U.S. might have me work in France for 3-6 months. I would still be paid by my employer in America, but be doing the labor in France. I have read up on the Shengel Visa and that, but I don't believe they will get me a French work visa because I am not working for a French company. Will I most likely be working illegally or even staying too long because I would possibly be over the 90 days? Do you even need a visa for this, other than Shengel? I really hope this happens because I could travel every weekend!! It's not a sure thing yet though...
My company here in the U.S. might have me work in France for 3-6 months. I would still be paid by my employer in America, but be doing the labor in France. I have read up on the Shengel Visa and that, but I don't believe they will get me a French work visa because I am not working for a French company. Will I most likely be working illegally or even staying too long because I would possibly be over the 90 days? Do you even need a visa for this, other than Shengel? I really hope this happens because I could travel every weekend!! It's not a sure thing yet though...
Jul 5th, 2007, 06:44 PM
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Simply call the nearest French Consulate or the Embassy in D.C. and ask thesse questions as they will be the only authoritatve folks to give you answers to these questions.
Yes for stays beyond three months i believe in EU you need a work visa. How about asking your company who is assigning you to France - if they don't know tell them your concerns and to find out.
Anyway though Fodirites have proved to be a cornucopia of personal knowledge on many topics this one you need to get the offical stance - talk to your company and the Consulate/Embassy
Yes for stays beyond three months i believe in EU you need a work visa. How about asking your company who is assigning you to France - if they don't know tell them your concerns and to find out.
Anyway though Fodirites have proved to be a cornucopia of personal knowledge on many topics this one you need to get the offical stance - talk to your company and the Consulate/Embassy
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:41 PM
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The only reference I have is a friend of mine who was working in Belgium for a bit more than 6 months.
His company's Belgian subsidiary took care of Visa and working permit requirements.
Yet I'd strongy support the other views here that this topic is too complex to reach any conclusions by other means than contacting the relevant people at your company and the French embassy or consulate in your home country.
Actually, I'm a bit surprised that your company did not supply you with the information on how they plan to handle your stay in France...
His company's Belgian subsidiary took care of Visa and working permit requirements.
Yet I'd strongy support the other views here that this topic is too complex to reach any conclusions by other means than contacting the relevant people at your company and the French embassy or consulate in your home country.
Actually, I'm a bit surprised that your company did not supply you with the information on how they plan to handle your stay in France...
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:53 PM
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I just have a feeling it will be a last minute thing. They need someone there in August and I would think typical visa timeframe is 2 months.
I found the description on the French Conculate website for the Long Stay Visa, but I see this line: Letter from applicant certifying that he/she will not have any paid activity in France. I wonder if they mean paid by French companies.
The only thing I can do is talk to my boss when they figure this out. I get the impression from other people I know here that they just worked during the 90 days then went home. Just don't want to be banned from France for 5 years, since I go there every 2 years or so for vacation.
Thanks for your ideas though. I work nights right now so no one is here to ask anyways...just seeing if anyone else was in a similar situation
I found the description on the French Conculate website for the Long Stay Visa, but I see this line: Letter from applicant certifying that he/she will not have any paid activity in France. I wonder if they mean paid by French companies.
The only thing I can do is talk to my boss when they figure this out. I get the impression from other people I know here that they just worked during the 90 days then went home. Just don't want to be banned from France for 5 years, since I go there every 2 years or so for vacation.
Thanks for your ideas though. I work nights right now so no one is here to ask anyways...just seeing if anyone else was in a similar situation
Jul 5th, 2007, 09:54 PM
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Having known various people (US citizens) that have worked via their US companies in Europe and other parts of the world jasontallica I am confused why you are posting on Fodor's regarding the legal requirements. From the information that you posted I assume that your work for your US based company will be legal in France and consquently I don't understand why your employer is not involved with making sure you have all the necessary paperwork/documentation for your work time in France. Something just doesn't make sense.
Jul 5th, 2007, 10:21 PM
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Because its short notice (next month) and because its open-ended )3 to possibly 6 months). I was just curiously checking, not realizing it was so complex. If it was less than 90 days would I even need any visa at all? Or would my usual visa exemption, being US citizen, be enough? Just to clarify this isn't a done deal and I want to have all my homework done before anything is decided. Thanks and sorry for confusion! All I really care about is living in Europe and being able to enjoy the culture, architecture, and history from a different point of view. I only am able to go every few years for 2 weeks or less. This would be a dream come true...
Jul 5th, 2007, 10:53 PM
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Your post reads as if your company has business, but not a subsidiary, in France.
Your options are:
1. Go to France for the three months an American may legally be there. Strictly speaking, you may do business, but you may not work. The difference is subtle, and varies between countries: most countries let you go round pitching the benefits of your company's products on a visitor's entry permit, for example, but won't let you set up a stall in a market to sell goods. If you're being loaned to a client company in France, you might get away with it - or a disgruntled employee of that company might shop you. If that happens, it's you, not your company, that gets deported
2. Apply for a French long-term visa. Won't work because you plan to work. Doesn't matter where you're getting paid: the French will see it as working in France
3. Get your company to give you an internal transfer. If you've got a French subsidiary, it's up to them and relatively easy. If you haven't, this isn't an option
4. Get an associate company (eg a client or your local agent) to hire you. Very, very difficult: they need to apply for a work permit for you BEFORE you leave your home country. For that (and it can take months) they need to demonstrate you've got skills that can't be got anywhere in Europe AND that they'e looked everywhere in Europe.
Most smallish businesses (and a surprising number of larger ones) don't understand the complexities of moving people to foreign countries. Without looking like a professional nay-sayer, you need to get your company to do the relevant research before taking this ay further.
Few embassies have the staff or inclination to advise foreign companies on how to get round their rules. And embassies don't carry the can if they give you wrong advice. So, after you've got an answer from the French that's just as negative as this,your company might want to find migration specialists who've worked out the answer.
Your options are:
1. Go to France for the three months an American may legally be there. Strictly speaking, you may do business, but you may not work. The difference is subtle, and varies between countries: most countries let you go round pitching the benefits of your company's products on a visitor's entry permit, for example, but won't let you set up a stall in a market to sell goods. If you're being loaned to a client company in France, you might get away with it - or a disgruntled employee of that company might shop you. If that happens, it's you, not your company, that gets deported
2. Apply for a French long-term visa. Won't work because you plan to work. Doesn't matter where you're getting paid: the French will see it as working in France
3. Get your company to give you an internal transfer. If you've got a French subsidiary, it's up to them and relatively easy. If you haven't, this isn't an option
4. Get an associate company (eg a client or your local agent) to hire you. Very, very difficult: they need to apply for a work permit for you BEFORE you leave your home country. For that (and it can take months) they need to demonstrate you've got skills that can't be got anywhere in Europe AND that they'e looked everywhere in Europe.
Most smallish businesses (and a surprising number of larger ones) don't understand the complexities of moving people to foreign countries. Without looking like a professional nay-sayer, you need to get your company to do the relevant research before taking this ay further.
Few embassies have the staff or inclination to advise foreign companies on how to get round their rules. And embassies don't carry the can if they give you wrong advice. So, after you've got an answer from the French that's just as negative as this,your company might want to find migration specialists who've worked out the answer.
Jul 5th, 2007, 11:18 PM
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Another very important thing for you to check in all this is how you will be insured during your time in France.
I would go back to your company with all your questions and worries, and not except anything but the fullest answers from them.
I would go back to your company with all your questions and worries, and not except anything but the fullest answers from them.
Jul 6th, 2007, 02:16 AM
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Jasontallica, I went through a similar situation to yours, although the American company that I work for transferred me to Scotland, rather than France. My company also did not provide me with a lot of information on getting the proper permits and visas so I had to do a lot of research on my own.
I don't know about France, but for Scotland all I needed was a Work Permit (6 months or less). Because I will be here less than 6 months I do not need a visa - if I was going to be here longer than that I would however need one. My company (the Scotland arm of it) applied for the Work Permit on my behalf and it is valid for 6 months from the time I first entered the country. As I said I don't know whether France is different, but I can share your frustration in dealing with the complexities of working in Europe!
I don't know about France, but for Scotland all I needed was a Work Permit (6 months or less). Because I will be here less than 6 months I do not need a visa - if I was going to be here longer than that I would however need one. My company (the Scotland arm of it) applied for the Work Permit on my behalf and it is valid for 6 months from the time I first entered the country. As I said I don't know whether France is different, but I can share your frustration in dealing with the complexities of working in Europe!
Jul 6th, 2007, 02:49 AM
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The comlexities of working in Europe are no worse than those for Europeans wishing to work in the US believe me! We gave up on emigrating to California because it was just too much - and that was with full sponsorship from NASA.
Jul 6th, 2007, 07:10 AM
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Even if this assignment is "on short notice" it is your company's responsibility to insure that you are living and working in France legally. They should not leave something so important up to you. Afterall, if a company requires an employee to go to a foreign country as part of their job the company should give that employee all the assistance necessary so the employee does not violate any laws.
Of course, if they don't it is the employee who ends up getting deported or incarcerated. Your employer should have a legal expert get the full facts on what it takes to work in France rather than rely on information you found on a travel forum. The fact that "it is on short notice" is not an excuse. Tell your employer that you are very interested in the assignment but that you want to be sure you are doing things legally. They should begin getting expert legal advise as soon as possible - the "shot notice" is getting shorter with each passing day.
Of course, if they don't it is the employee who ends up getting deported or incarcerated. Your employer should have a legal expert get the full facts on what it takes to work in France rather than rely on information you found on a travel forum. The fact that "it is on short notice" is not an excuse. Tell your employer that you are very interested in the assignment but that you want to be sure you are doing things legally. They should begin getting expert legal advise as soon as possible - the "shot notice" is getting shorter with each passing day.
Jul 6th, 2007, 08:34 AM
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Your company sounds like a bunch of total idiots. I agree with the above post, this is ridiculous that they may send you to France to work for them "on short notice" and leave the entire legalities up to you. I know people in the US who work for companies in the US and Europe (and may be European-owned) and they always have immigration lawyers and others on the staff to handle things.
Jul 6th, 2007, 08:44 AM
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I agree with A_traveller. I've sent numerous employees to Europe for short (<3mo), intermediate (3-6mo) and longer term assignments over the years. My company HR department always (must) take care of the details. As a multinational company they are responsible for correct payroll and other taxes, so the exact terms and duration of an assignment are important.
In my experience, visits 3mo or less generally fall under a 'business trip' category, where no special paperwork has been required. Your company policy, business relationships with overseas affiliates, and the countries in which they do business may mean very different rules apply. Only your company HR can tell you for sure.
Good luck.
In my experience, visits 3mo or less generally fall under a 'business trip' category, where no special paperwork has been required. Your company policy, business relationships with overseas affiliates, and the countries in which they do business may mean very different rules apply. Only your company HR can tell you for sure.
Good luck.
Jul 8th, 2007, 10:57 PM
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Quite frankly, I wouldn't worry about the legality, but that's just me. If you need to stay more than 3 months, just leave the country for the weekend and start over. I guess you should ask about insurance and make sure they're going to pay you, but other than that, I'd enter the country on a tourist visa and not worry about it.
Jul 8th, 2007, 11:06 PM
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It doesn't quite work to leave the country for the weekend and start over. The general rule is that you can stay in Schengen countries, as a tourist, for 90 days out of 180. So leaving at the 3-month mark for the weekend would not restart the clock.
