Provence 3 Ways
Apr 10th, 2010, 11:50 AM
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Provence 3 Ways
I have concocted three plans for a one-week June visit to Provence. As I examine the advantages and disadvantages of each, I was hoping for thoughts & comments to help me with the decision. These are not ranked by priority, but by the order I happened to create them. (Option1 may actually be my least favorite.) N.B.: I looked into staying in a gite for a week, but 1) We're going from a Tue-Tue and turnover days are almost always Sat; 2) It would involve more driving time each day; and 3) a lot of the best Provencal gites are booked into Feb 2012! Re: "Gordes," we may actually stay at a B&B in another Luberon town such as St-Saturnin-les-Apt, Beaumettes or Roussillon, but I'm using Gordes for planning purposes as it is centralized.
Option 1:
(2 Nights Vaison; 2 Nights Gordes area; 3 Nights St-Remy)
Tues: Linear Drive: TGV to Avignon, pick up rental car, do not visit, but go straight to Chateauneuf-du-Pape>Orange (theatre only)>Vaison-la-Romaine
Wed: Loop from Vaison: >Seguret>Gigondas>Caromb>Crestet>
Thur: Linear from Vaison: >Pernes-les-Fontaines>Venasque>Joucas>Gordes
Fri: Loop from Gordes: >Oppede-le-Vieux>Menerbes>Bonnieux>Saignon>Roussillon>
Sat: Linear from Gordes: >Avignon>St-Remy
Sun: Loop from St-Remy: >Uzes>Castillon-du-Gard>Pont-du-Gard
Mon: Loop from St-Remy: >Baux-de-Provence>Montmajour Abbey>Arles
Tues: Depart St-Remy>Carcassonne>Albi
Advantages to Option 1: Only plan with a visit to Chateauneuf-du-Pape; can start later most days; Venasque & Pernes better on a Thurs; avoid more expensive overnight in Uzes. Disadvantages: Longest time spent in car; no markets; Uzes on Sun not as good; Luberon Villages Drive is more jam-packed.
Option 2:
(2 Nights St-Remy; 2 Nights Gordes area; 2 Nights Vaison; 1 Night Uzes)
Tues: Linear: TGV to Avignon, pick up rental car and spend the day>St-Remy
Wed: Loop from St-Remy: S.R. Market>Arles>Montmajour Abbey>Glanum
Thur: Linear from St-Remy: >Baux>Oppede-le-Vieux>Menerbes>Gordes
Fri: Loop from Gordes: >Roussillon>Saignon>Bonnieux>
Sat: Linear from Gordes: >Venasque>Pernes>Gigondas>Seguret>Vaison
Sun: Loop from Vaison: >Seguret>Gigondas>Caromb>Crestet (stopping at different
domaines/co-ops on Sun than on Sat in Seguret & Gigondas based on what's open when)
Mon: Linear from Vaison: >Orange (theatre only)>Pont-du-Gard>Uzes
Tues: Depart Uzes>Carcassonne>Albi
Advantages to Option 2: Least amount of driving time & distance and the time in each area is more evenly distributed. Disadvantages: Entails nights in four places instead of only three.
Option 3:
(2 Nights St-Remy; 4 Nights Gordes area; 1 Night Uzes)
Tues: Same as Option 2
Wed: Same as Option 2
Thur: Same as Option 2
Fri: Loop from Gordes: >Carpentras Market>Caromb>Vaison>Seguret>Gigondas>
Sat: Loop from Gordes: >Roussillon>Saignon>Bonnieux>
Sun: Loop from Gordes: >L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue Market>Pernes>Venasque>Joucas>
Mon: Linear from Gordes: >Orange (theatre only)>Pont-du-Gard>Uzes (believe it or not, the driving time is basically the same if we go from Gordes through Orange as if we head straight west through Avignon)
Tues: Same as Option 2
Advantages to Option 3: We can catch three good markets (our main source of picnic lunches); and we spend the most amount of time in the Gordes area with more relaxing days there. Disadvantages: We spend the least amount of time in the Dentelles area and the loop up to Vaison and back is a little long and less relaxing.
Your thoughts Oh Master Trip Planners?
Option 1:
(2 Nights Vaison; 2 Nights Gordes area; 3 Nights St-Remy)
Tues: Linear Drive: TGV to Avignon, pick up rental car, do not visit, but go straight to Chateauneuf-du-Pape>Orange (theatre only)>Vaison-la-Romaine
Wed: Loop from Vaison: >Seguret>Gigondas>Caromb>Crestet>
Thur: Linear from Vaison: >Pernes-les-Fontaines>Venasque>Joucas>Gordes
Fri: Loop from Gordes: >Oppede-le-Vieux>Menerbes>Bonnieux>Saignon>Roussillon>
Sat: Linear from Gordes: >Avignon>St-Remy
Sun: Loop from St-Remy: >Uzes>Castillon-du-Gard>Pont-du-Gard
Mon: Loop from St-Remy: >Baux-de-Provence>Montmajour Abbey>Arles
Tues: Depart St-Remy>Carcassonne>Albi
Advantages to Option 1: Only plan with a visit to Chateauneuf-du-Pape; can start later most days; Venasque & Pernes better on a Thurs; avoid more expensive overnight in Uzes. Disadvantages: Longest time spent in car; no markets; Uzes on Sun not as good; Luberon Villages Drive is more jam-packed.
Option 2:
(2 Nights St-Remy; 2 Nights Gordes area; 2 Nights Vaison; 1 Night Uzes)
Tues: Linear: TGV to Avignon, pick up rental car and spend the day>St-Remy
Wed: Loop from St-Remy: S.R. Market>Arles>Montmajour Abbey>Glanum
Thur: Linear from St-Remy: >Baux>Oppede-le-Vieux>Menerbes>Gordes
Fri: Loop from Gordes: >Roussillon>Saignon>Bonnieux>
Sat: Linear from Gordes: >Venasque>Pernes>Gigondas>Seguret>Vaison
Sun: Loop from Vaison: >Seguret>Gigondas>Caromb>Crestet (stopping at different
domaines/co-ops on Sun than on Sat in Seguret & Gigondas based on what's open when)
Mon: Linear from Vaison: >Orange (theatre only)>Pont-du-Gard>Uzes
Tues: Depart Uzes>Carcassonne>Albi
Advantages to Option 2: Least amount of driving time & distance and the time in each area is more evenly distributed. Disadvantages: Entails nights in four places instead of only three.
Option 3:
(2 Nights St-Remy; 4 Nights Gordes area; 1 Night Uzes)
Tues: Same as Option 2
Wed: Same as Option 2
Thur: Same as Option 2
Fri: Loop from Gordes: >Carpentras Market>Caromb>Vaison>Seguret>Gigondas>
Sat: Loop from Gordes: >Roussillon>Saignon>Bonnieux>
Sun: Loop from Gordes: >L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue Market>Pernes>Venasque>Joucas>
Mon: Linear from Gordes: >Orange (theatre only)>Pont-du-Gard>Uzes (believe it or not, the driving time is basically the same if we go from Gordes through Orange as if we head straight west through Avignon)
Tues: Same as Option 2
Advantages to Option 3: We can catch three good markets (our main source of picnic lunches); and we spend the most amount of time in the Gordes area with more relaxing days there. Disadvantages: We spend the least amount of time in the Dentelles area and the loop up to Vaison and back is a little long and less relaxing.
Your thoughts Oh Master Trip Planners?
Apr 10th, 2010, 02:30 PM
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I'm in the other camp. The places you want to see are far enough apart that I would move and not stay in one place. In fact, I do move around when I'm planning a trip like that, although I try to keep it to 2-3 within that time frame. If you travel lightly, I don't find it that much trouble to drive to a new area and check in -- and I just prefer being in different areas and hotels. Another reason is that when I'm on that kind of trip (eg, Provence) with driving in somewhat rural areas -- I do not want to be driving at all or far at night for dinner. But, I would prefer to not just be in the same place every night for so long. Gordes and Uzes are not that close together IMO. Most hotels aren't that great (not in my budet anyway, and not in Provence) that I would want to stay there 7 days.
However, St Remy and Gordes aren't that far apart, so I probably wouldn't feel necessary to move around there (your Option 1). I could see St Remy (or Gordes), Vaison, then Uzes, for example. Your Option 3 is something I could envision, also. The only one of your plans I would not do is the one involving four different hotels.
I've stayed in Pernes les Fontaines and found that area very convenient but don't get why you say Pernes is not as good on Thursday. It's just a small town, I don't see what difference that day makes (perhaps I'm forgetting something, but I just can't imagine what it would be). I'm not market crazy like a lot of people are, so visiting three would be overkill to me, but I think you'd probably want to visit one.
So I can't see what is perfect, I think you have to just make some of these decisions knowing how you personally feel about moving around and what kind of accommodations you are staying in. I am surprised you think Uzes is more expensive than Gordes but perhaps you have particular places picked out that make it that way. Gordes is one of the most expensive areas in Provence IMO.
However, St Remy and Gordes aren't that far apart, so I probably wouldn't feel necessary to move around there (your Option 1). I could see St Remy (or Gordes), Vaison, then Uzes, for example. Your Option 3 is something I could envision, also. The only one of your plans I would not do is the one involving four different hotels.
I've stayed in Pernes les Fontaines and found that area very convenient but don't get why you say Pernes is not as good on Thursday. It's just a small town, I don't see what difference that day makes (perhaps I'm forgetting something, but I just can't imagine what it would be). I'm not market crazy like a lot of people are, so visiting three would be overkill to me, but I think you'd probably want to visit one.
So I can't see what is perfect, I think you have to just make some of these decisions knowing how you personally feel about moving around and what kind of accommodations you are staying in. I am surprised you think Uzes is more expensive than Gordes but perhaps you have particular places picked out that make it that way. Gordes is one of the most expensive areas in Provence IMO.
Apr 10th, 2010, 03:39 PM
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Hi, Ira and zoecat: Thanks for your thoughts. I've certainly been toying awhile with the possibility of staying in one place for the entire week (& DH would prefer it). In fact, I looked into the place in Villeneuve-lez-Avignon where you stayed, Ira, and have bookmarked it. Still, I like the idea of being able to see St-Remy, Vaison & Gordes in the early morning & evening after most of the tourist crowds are gone & I'm trying to reduce driving time. Ira, the times you indicate don't sound like much until you double them when you're doing a loop and add them to the other sites each day. I would like to avoid adding 1-2 hours in the car to every day of the itinerary in an effort to make the whole experience more relaxing & less stressful.
Avignon is the most centrally located to everything, but I don't want to stay right in the city. Also, I'm limited by the fact that I need a room with a triple (tall 13-yr-old son won't be able to use a lit bebe).
I do feel limited also by the fact that we need to end up on the western side of the area to reduce the long drive to the Dordogne (via Carcassonne) when we leave Provence.
Christina: You hit the nail on the head re: being able to relax in the evening, explore a new place in peace after dinner and mix up the B&Bs and other town offerings a little (an advantage if it turns out we don't like a certain area or accommodation as much). Each of my options has us returning to our "base" by 3 pm - 5 pm most afternoons.
One reason I picked St-Remy as a base was to put myself as close to Les Baux as possible to visit very early or late to avoid crowds, plus give me more time in Arles. I also thought St-Remy would be a good base to walk around in the evening. (The timing of all 3 options is such that the base towns can really only be seen & explored by staying there.) I will look into consolidating, though. Uzes & Vaison are of course much further apart from the other two.
Re: Pernes - I meant that seeing Venasque & Pernes on a Thursday was an advantage of Option 1 as the Option 3 had us visiting those towns on a Sunday (though Option 2 on Sat was good, too.)
Re: Uzes' expense, that impression probably is due to the decent places I could find that would accommodate all 3 of us, but I'm still looking.
Re: Markets. It's the food I'm interested in - stocking up for later meals to avoid restos as much as possible. We all have dietary restrictions & those lovely French menus could make me sick for a week. (I can't have dairy or animal fats, esp. butter. Don't ask me how that will work in France for heaven's sake.) I was hoping to have more choice & be able to eat lighter with market offerings. If I skip one, it'll probably be L'isle-sur-la-Sorgue since it's geared more to antiques & whatnot.
I may go with some combo of Options 2 & 3 if I can somehow avoid having to add too much more driving time.
Avignon is the most centrally located to everything, but I don't want to stay right in the city. Also, I'm limited by the fact that I need a room with a triple (tall 13-yr-old son won't be able to use a lit bebe).
I do feel limited also by the fact that we need to end up on the western side of the area to reduce the long drive to the Dordogne (via Carcassonne) when we leave Provence.
Christina: You hit the nail on the head re: being able to relax in the evening, explore a new place in peace after dinner and mix up the B&Bs and other town offerings a little (an advantage if it turns out we don't like a certain area or accommodation as much). Each of my options has us returning to our "base" by 3 pm - 5 pm most afternoons.
One reason I picked St-Remy as a base was to put myself as close to Les Baux as possible to visit very early or late to avoid crowds, plus give me more time in Arles. I also thought St-Remy would be a good base to walk around in the evening. (The timing of all 3 options is such that the base towns can really only be seen & explored by staying there.) I will look into consolidating, though. Uzes & Vaison are of course much further apart from the other two.
Re: Pernes - I meant that seeing Venasque & Pernes on a Thursday was an advantage of Option 1 as the Option 3 had us visiting those towns on a Sunday (though Option 2 on Sat was good, too.)
Re: Uzes' expense, that impression probably is due to the decent places I could find that would accommodate all 3 of us, but I'm still looking.
Re: Markets. It's the food I'm interested in - stocking up for later meals to avoid restos as much as possible. We all have dietary restrictions & those lovely French menus could make me sick for a week. (I can't have dairy or animal fats, esp. butter. Don't ask me how that will work in France for heaven's sake.) I was hoping to have more choice & be able to eat lighter with market offerings. If I skip one, it'll probably be L'isle-sur-la-Sorgue since it's geared more to antiques & whatnot.
I may go with some combo of Options 2 & 3 if I can somehow avoid having to add too much more driving time.
Apr 10th, 2010, 04:10 PM
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I would stick with 2 locations - St Remy & Vaison. Both have ample & interesting places to wander, have pizza or salads for dinner, and both towns also have markets.
From Vaison visit the lavender fields around Sault, Orange, Pernes, Dentelles (Segeret, Gigondas, etc), Chateauneuf du Pape
From St Remy you can easily get to the Pont, Uzes, Luberon, Les Baux, Arles, Avignon, l'Isle sur la Sorgue, & Alpilles.
Stu Dudley
From Vaison visit the lavender fields around Sault, Orange, Pernes, Dentelles (Segeret, Gigondas, etc), Chateauneuf du Pape
From St Remy you can easily get to the Pont, Uzes, Luberon, Les Baux, Arles, Avignon, l'Isle sur la Sorgue, & Alpilles.
Stu Dudley
Apr 10th, 2010, 05:29 PM
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Lo & behold, I have been so obtuse just by judging one distance the way things look on a map. I've been feverishly working all the possibilities to end up on the western edge of Provence to save "so much" time on the Tues morning we leave for Carcassonne to Albi, but I haven't been completely happy with any of the results.
Well, duh, I just did the actual calculation comparing the travel time difference between St-Remy>Carcassonne and Vaison>Carcassonne and there is only a 15 min difference!! (2:50 v. 2:35) Apparently the way the A roads play out makes all the difference. (Ironically, I had calculated all the other most minute times and kilometers. I just didn't think my eyes were wrong enough to check this big one.)
(This is the same "you've got to be kidding me" feeling I had when I realized that it was actually faster to go all the way through Carcassonne to Albi than to go by what appeared to be the "shorter" routes.)
Okay, this totally makes my day. I think I can now stay in only two places in Provence and still do/see it in the order I want. Thanks everyone for making me take another look!
Nose to the grindstone. . . and then I'll be back.
Well, duh, I just did the actual calculation comparing the travel time difference between St-Remy>Carcassonne and Vaison>Carcassonne and there is only a 15 min difference!! (2:50 v. 2:35) Apparently the way the A roads play out makes all the difference. (Ironically, I had calculated all the other most minute times and kilometers. I just didn't think my eyes were wrong enough to check this big one.)
(This is the same "you've got to be kidding me" feeling I had when I realized that it was actually faster to go all the way through Carcassonne to Albi than to go by what appeared to be the "shorter" routes.)
Okay, this totally makes my day. I think I can now stay in only two places in Provence and still do/see it in the order I want. Thanks everyone for making me take another look!
Nose to the grindstone. . . and then I'll be back.
Apr 10th, 2010, 07:24 PM
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Oh I know, Cigalechanta dear, but Uzes & Pont du Gard (& Nimes for that matter) do always seem to tie into Provence in many itineraries because of convenience. I am inelegantly lumping that all together on one "side" before moving onto the Dordogne.
You are of course right about differing in our preferences -- but I do so love the feedback from those who have been there. It's an inkling at least - a fuzzy picture, though nothing beats feet on the ground. It really does help to know, too, that Stu is a detail-oriented guy from my neck of the woods who has spent so much time everywhere; and his wife likes to shop for household goods; and that you are a big, longtime fan of Provence with a literary bent who likes fashion; that Christina likes to move around, but could care less about shopping; Peter actually lives in the Languedoc; and St Cirq has had a place in the eastern edge of the Dordogne for umpteen years as she watched it change. Understanding everyone's background gives the recommendations more meaning and validity.
You're all great. Thank you!
You are of course right about differing in our preferences -- but I do so love the feedback from those who have been there. It's an inkling at least - a fuzzy picture, though nothing beats feet on the ground. It really does help to know, too, that Stu is a detail-oriented guy from my neck of the woods who has spent so much time everywhere; and his wife likes to shop for household goods; and that you are a big, longtime fan of Provence with a literary bent who likes fashion; that Christina likes to move around, but could care less about shopping; Peter actually lives in the Languedoc; and St Cirq has had a place in the eastern edge of the Dordogne for umpteen years as she watched it change. Understanding everyone's background gives the recommendations more meaning and validity.
You're all great. Thank you!
Apr 10th, 2010, 09:13 PM
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Cigalechanta, I'm so very sorry to hear about your loss. It sounds like he was a pretty cool guy & that it was a blessing to know him & have those travel memories.
My DH, much as I love him, is not exactly mellow about getting lost in a foreign country. I better have at least two maps, a GPS and have all the towns en route memorized! I do drive, but -- ahem -- he prefers that I don't. Really, I'm a good driver. Really. (Similarly, he doesn't let me make the coffee anymore since the filter folded over on me once and we had a pot full of grounds. Seriously, the man has no patience.) Then again, if I don't have to make coffee or drive now, maybe I'm on to something.
I love your comments & help. Please keep 'em coming!
My DH, much as I love him, is not exactly mellow about getting lost in a foreign country. I better have at least two maps, a GPS and have all the towns en route memorized! I do drive, but -- ahem -- he prefers that I don't. Really, I'm a good driver. Really. (Similarly, he doesn't let me make the coffee anymore since the filter folded over on me once and we had a pot full of grounds. Seriously, the man has no patience.) Then again, if I don't have to make coffee or drive now, maybe I'm on to something.
I love your comments & help. Please keep 'em coming!
Apr 11th, 2010, 06:53 AM
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We've enjoyed many "wrong turns" also - except the time in Italy when we stopped the car and it started sliding backwards & downhill on its own, on a gravel road, on the side of a hill.
Stu Dudley
Stu Dudley
Apr 14th, 2010, 08:51 AM
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Stu and Cigalechanta, those stories are very funny. (Well, at least they seem so now. I'm sure they weren't so amusing at the time.)
Do you know if there's been any kind of Fodors thread regarding funny travel stories? Your anecdotes prompted me to think about starting one, such as "Memorable Travel Mishaps," or some such thing.
Do you know if there's been any kind of Fodors thread regarding funny travel stories? Your anecdotes prompted me to think about starting one, such as "Memorable Travel Mishaps," or some such thing.
Apr 14th, 2010, 09:52 AM
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yes, there have been several threads like that, with somewhat varying themes (eg, dumbest thing I ever did abroad, mistakes in using foreign languages, etc.).
hah, I am planning my Provence itinerary and have about 3 moves in 10 days. 4 days in Marseille, 2 days near Apt/Saignon, then 3 days up near Pernes les Fontaines, as there is a place I really like up there.
hah, I am planning my Provence itinerary and have about 3 moves in 10 days. 4 days in Marseille, 2 days near Apt/Saignon, then 3 days up near Pernes les Fontaines, as there is a place I really like up there.
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