Please help with “dream trip” budget - Italy
Dec 29th, 2013, 02:31 PM
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Please help with “dream trip” budget - Italy
Husband is almost retired and we are hoping to travel frequently (some short/some long trips). He’s challenged me to work up a budget for a 2-3 month long trip – I’m going to focus on Italy. I really have no idea how to start or even guesstimate what our budget will/should be, so I’m hoping you can help.
We are not extravagant nor are we low budget travelers, but I do need a place that is clean and safe. In past trips to Rome, we’ve averaged between $150-$200 US per night in hotels. I’m thinking we’ll rent an apartment and stay 2-3 weeks at each location.
Will start in or near Rome – we love it there. Will use trains to travel to locations outside the city – Pompeii, Ostia Antica, etc.
Thinking of visiting the following areas: Dolomites, the Lakes, Tuscany, and re-visit Venice.
How much would you budget for an apartment – 2-3 weeks each location?
How much would you budget for food? Will eat breakfasts in the apartment, pack some lunches, all dinners probably out
Car rental / train transportation (no car rental in Rome!)
Tours / entertainment / museums
I know this very general information, but I NEED somewhere to start. I’m not looking for things to do / places to see specifically, but will take suggestions. My main focus is COST.
Thanks in advance for your help!!
We are not extravagant nor are we low budget travelers, but I do need a place that is clean and safe. In past trips to Rome, we’ve averaged between $150-$200 US per night in hotels. I’m thinking we’ll rent an apartment and stay 2-3 weeks at each location.
Will start in or near Rome – we love it there. Will use trains to travel to locations outside the city – Pompeii, Ostia Antica, etc.
Thinking of visiting the following areas: Dolomites, the Lakes, Tuscany, and re-visit Venice.
How much would you budget for an apartment – 2-3 weeks each location?
How much would you budget for food? Will eat breakfasts in the apartment, pack some lunches, all dinners probably out
Car rental / train transportation (no car rental in Rome!)
Tours / entertainment / museums
I know this very general information, but I NEED somewhere to start. I’m not looking for things to do / places to see specifically, but will take suggestions. My main focus is COST.
Thanks in advance for your help!!
Dec 29th, 2013, 02:36 PM
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I think you need to start by investigating apts - since that will be your largest cost - and only you will know what you are happy with:
Size - given that you will be traveling for months can yu live in a studio?
Location how central do you need to be?
Stairs (and how many flights) versus elevators (quite rare except luxury properties)
That will give you a good place to start. Train travel can be modest and with food you have a lot of choices to save
Size - given that you will be traveling for months can yu live in a studio?
Location how central do you need to be?
Stairs (and how many flights) versus elevators (quite rare except luxury properties)
That will give you a good place to start. Train travel can be modest and with food you have a lot of choices to save
Dec 29th, 2013, 03:30 PM
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I would venture to say that the planning approach based on cost is contributing to "no idea how to start." I realize many people do this, and they too get stuck not knowing "where to start."
What is a cost? Some people say it is the objective. If so, anything achievable within the cost goal should be acceptable. Consequently, the itinerary does not matter. But I doubt you agree with this view. In that case, cost is probably not the objective nor should it be the driving factor. I think the view that helps people plan the trip better is to consider that the cost is one of the many constraints in addition to time, mobility, etc. While the cost may not be the objective=goal, it matters. It is a CONSTRAINT that limits the scope of what you can do.
I think it would be more productive to define the scope consisting of many different options. Each option consists of known durations at known locations at certain time of the year for which you can compute the cost associated with it without being paralyzed. I think you would go nowhere asking for the budget for accommodations, food, transportation, etc, without knowing where you are going, whether it is during a high season or a low season, or whether it even makes sense to stay in that place at that time for 2-3 weeks. What if it is off season such as May in the Dolomites?
Also, what is puzzling is that you seemed to have been to Rome several times and Venice at least once. Have you gone through this exercise before for those trips?
And finally, if you have not stayed several months in Italy before, it seems it might make sense to do a shorter trip this time since you are "hoping to travel frequently." Learn what works and what doesn't, define specific areas you are certain you would like to visit later, and come back with better understanding of how to create itineraries meeting you goals and constraints.
What is a cost? Some people say it is the objective. If so, anything achievable within the cost goal should be acceptable. Consequently, the itinerary does not matter. But I doubt you agree with this view. In that case, cost is probably not the objective nor should it be the driving factor. I think the view that helps people plan the trip better is to consider that the cost is one of the many constraints in addition to time, mobility, etc. While the cost may not be the objective=goal, it matters. It is a CONSTRAINT that limits the scope of what you can do.
I think it would be more productive to define the scope consisting of many different options. Each option consists of known durations at known locations at certain time of the year for which you can compute the cost associated with it without being paralyzed. I think you would go nowhere asking for the budget for accommodations, food, transportation, etc, without knowing where you are going, whether it is during a high season or a low season, or whether it even makes sense to stay in that place at that time for 2-3 weeks. What if it is off season such as May in the Dolomites?
Also, what is puzzling is that you seemed to have been to Rome several times and Venice at least once. Have you gone through this exercise before for those trips?
And finally, if you have not stayed several months in Italy before, it seems it might make sense to do a shorter trip this time since you are "hoping to travel frequently." Learn what works and what doesn't, define specific areas you are certain you would like to visit later, and come back with better understanding of how to create itineraries meeting you goals and constraints.
Dec 29th, 2013, 04:43 PM
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Greg - are you sure you're not related to my husband???
I have difficulty believing that the trip will be as expensive as my husband thinks, but I now realize that it will cost far more than I realized. That is why he's challenged me to "find a budget."
NYTraveler - I guess you're right. Just jump in and look at various apts. at various locations to see what is "acceptable." Yes, I think I could stand to live in a studio as I wouldn't anticipate staying in most days. Central location may not be as important, and stairs don't bother us.
Greg - because our stays in Rome and Venice were much shorter, budget wasn't as necessary as it will be now.
Travel will most definitely be in a shoulder season, most likely Sept.-Oct./Nov. or maybe early spring.
You've given me other things to consider. Thanks for the input!
I have difficulty believing that the trip will be as expensive as my husband thinks, but I now realize that it will cost far more than I realized. That is why he's challenged me to "find a budget."
NYTraveler - I guess you're right. Just jump in and look at various apts. at various locations to see what is "acceptable." Yes, I think I could stand to live in a studio as I wouldn't anticipate staying in most days. Central location may not be as important, and stairs don't bother us.
Greg - because our stays in Rome and Venice were much shorter, budget wasn't as necessary as it will be now.
Travel will most definitely be in a shoulder season, most likely Sept.-Oct./Nov. or maybe early spring.
You've given me other things to consider. Thanks for the input!
Dec 29th, 2013, 05:43 PM
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I usually create a very basic budget for our trips (my husband is also much like yours LOL).
I start with the big stuff: airfare (maybe $1000 each for roundtrip overseas), trip ins., daily hotel/apt. cost (I try to average $150), and a daily amount for food (maybe $100/day). Then, I add other transportation expenses like car rentals and trains as needed and throw in some more for admission costs, tours, souvenirs etc. All "educated estimates" based on some basic research, but it will give you a pretty good idea.
Also don't forget to subtract the regular "at home" expenses that you won't have to pay during your travel months(food, gas, entertainment etc.)-- makes a significant difference!
I start with the big stuff: airfare (maybe $1000 each for roundtrip overseas), trip ins., daily hotel/apt. cost (I try to average $150), and a daily amount for food (maybe $100/day). Then, I add other transportation expenses like car rentals and trains as needed and throw in some more for admission costs, tours, souvenirs etc. All "educated estimates" based on some basic research, but it will give you a pretty good idea.
Also don't forget to subtract the regular "at home" expenses that you won't have to pay during your travel months(food, gas, entertainment etc.)-- makes a significant difference!
Dec 30th, 2013, 04:29 AM
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I think I should point out that in Tuscany and Rome, high season includes spring and most of autumn. In Rome, for lodging, high season runs from Easter to the end of June, then from September 1st to just after All Saints. July and August are considered mid-season at most hotels, but airfares are very high then. High season is more or less the same in Tuscany, but I don't know exact details.
Be very careful with apartments in Rome; most agencies and owners are honest, but I've read about many scams and shady practices. We once stayed in a "hotel suite", which had a small cooking area, a sleeping area, and a living area. This was not very central, but there was a tram to Piazza del Popolo a short walk away, as well as a bus terminus, where there were buses to many other parts of the city.
http://www.residencehotelparioli.com/en/home.htm
There are also hotels in Rome that manage off-site apartments; these offer hotel services with the independence of an apartment. The Hotel Mozart and the Hotel Campo de'Fiori both manage apartments off-site. Finally, the Bee Hive is a hotel/hostel that manages budget apartments.
If you're trying to save some money, you might want to consider Umbria or Le Marche as alternatives to Tuscany. Both areas are equally beautiful, but much less expensive (and not overrun with tourists). Le Marche, especially, is an unspoiled gem.
Be very careful with apartments in Rome; most agencies and owners are honest, but I've read about many scams and shady practices. We once stayed in a "hotel suite", which had a small cooking area, a sleeping area, and a living area. This was not very central, but there was a tram to Piazza del Popolo a short walk away, as well as a bus terminus, where there were buses to many other parts of the city.
http://www.residencehotelparioli.com/en/home.htm
There are also hotels in Rome that manage off-site apartments; these offer hotel services with the independence of an apartment. The Hotel Mozart and the Hotel Campo de'Fiori both manage apartments off-site. Finally, the Bee Hive is a hotel/hostel that manages budget apartments.
If you're trying to save some money, you might want to consider Umbria or Le Marche as alternatives to Tuscany. Both areas are equally beautiful, but much less expensive (and not overrun with tourists). Le Marche, especially, is an unspoiled gem.
Dec 30th, 2013, 05:56 AM
#7
Hi Jill,
having just got back from a 5-6 week trip to Australasia, and having gone through the budgeting exercise for that trip, perhaps i can help?
First of all, how much do you spend at home on food, entertainment, etc? it's unlikely that you will spend less while you're abroad, so that gives you a starting point for basic everyday costs. Then if you've been to Italy before, you'll have an idea of how much eating out is going to cost you - are you breakfast in/sandwich lunch/pizza dinner types, or breakfast out/light restaurant lunch/3 course dinner types? [ok, you answered this, sort of, above - but are you €30 or €60pp dinner people?]
secondly, accommodation - a weekly let is going to cost between €1000-2000, depending on its location and standard; if you take it for longer, the cost should reduce.
Thirdly airfares - I've no idea what a reasonable airfare from the US to Italy is, but $1000 seems to be a reasonable guess.
so get a spreadsheet and start budgeting: one column for airfares, another for accommodation, the next for travel costs [don't forget car hire and petrol], food and drink, tours/entertainment.
I can tell you that although I have yet to do all my sums, our 5 1/2 weeks cost us approx£8,000, excluding airfares.
having just got back from a 5-6 week trip to Australasia, and having gone through the budgeting exercise for that trip, perhaps i can help?
First of all, how much do you spend at home on food, entertainment, etc? it's unlikely that you will spend less while you're abroad, so that gives you a starting point for basic everyday costs. Then if you've been to Italy before, you'll have an idea of how much eating out is going to cost you - are you breakfast in/sandwich lunch/pizza dinner types, or breakfast out/light restaurant lunch/3 course dinner types? [ok, you answered this, sort of, above - but are you €30 or €60pp dinner people?]
secondly, accommodation - a weekly let is going to cost between €1000-2000, depending on its location and standard; if you take it for longer, the cost should reduce.
Thirdly airfares - I've no idea what a reasonable airfare from the US to Italy is, but $1000 seems to be a reasonable guess.
so get a spreadsheet and start budgeting: one column for airfares, another for accommodation, the next for travel costs [don't forget car hire and petrol], food and drink, tours/entertainment.
I can tell you that although I have yet to do all my sums, our 5 1/2 weeks cost us approx£8,000, excluding airfares.
Dec 30th, 2013, 07:57 AM
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As said above, first look at apartments and the cost for 2-3 weeks in each place. I would also look at a hotel and use that as a benchmark - if you eat breakfast in vs a hotel, you'll save 'x' euros/day; if you can do laundry in the apartment, you'll also save on that expense. We had a lovely place at an agro tourismo just outside Montalcino, La Crociona, that I would highly recommend. Use a reputable agency for any rental; I just became too uneasy with one and recently (like a week ago), cancelled the arrangement. Understand as well that many apartments will require a deposit and payment in advance or upon arrival which can limit your flexibility in moving about Italy. Regardless of the location, you can find excellent neighborhood places to eat. We found a family run pizzeria two blocks from the colosseum with 5e lasagne..the same would be 14-15e at Piazza Navona, or even 1 block from the colosseum! Go a bit off the beaten path and you'll find some great values. Budget for sightseeing and then add 30% as you'll see places that weren't on the list and as Rick Steves says, don't scrimp here; its why you are travelling. You may also want to figure in the cost of a guide for any tours as an extra. Enjoy!
Dec 30th, 2013, 07:57 AM
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Another good website for planning driving cost is www.viamichelin.com, as it will give you the cost of petrol and tolls for any driving trip.
Dec 30th, 2013, 08:15 AM
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You can get all of the best Trenitalia discounts without having a CartaFreccia. I have one and never use it, because the 2x1, the Economy, and the Supereconomy fares are all available without it. The half price fares for CartaFreccia holders are only available if you travel on Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday between 11 AM and 2 PM. These are the same times when you're most likely to find a super-economy ticket even cheaper than 50% off.
The only thing the CartaFreccia is good for is to collect points; you get 1 point for every euro you spend on train tickets, and when you get at least 1000 points, having spent €1000 on train tickets, you can get a free 2nd class Frecciabianca train ticket (the cheapest tickets there are in the Freccia line.)
Anyway, only official Italian residents can get a Carta Freccia. I wouldn't shed any tears over it.
The only thing the CartaFreccia is good for is to collect points; you get 1 point for every euro you spend on train tickets, and when you get at least 1000 points, having spent €1000 on train tickets, you can get a free 2nd class Frecciabianca train ticket (the cheapest tickets there are in the Freccia line.)
Anyway, only official Italian residents can get a Carta Freccia. I wouldn't shed any tears over it.
Dec 30th, 2013, 12:50 PM
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I'm envious of your ability to travel months on end!
I have rented apartments in Venice multiple times and I can recommend these 3 websites:
Venice apartment.com
TrulyVenice apartments.cm
Venice apartments.org
Enjoy.
I have rented apartments in Venice multiple times and I can recommend these 3 websites:
Venice apartment.com
TrulyVenice apartments.cm
Venice apartments.org
Enjoy.
Dec 30th, 2013, 12:56 PM
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My boyfriend and I are a month away from our two month excursion to Europe! We were really intimidated by the thought of budgeting and planning, but it was all a breeze once we got all of the apartment hunting and accommodations out of the way.
We used AirBnB and got full apartments for rent for about $100 per night and less. Some places obviously costed more than other's, but we never went over $700 for an entire week. All of the places we chose have full kitchens, washers, and are close to the center of the towns we're staying in. I definitely recommend checking it out, because it was really easy and affordable once you know where you want to stay!
We rented apartments for weeks at a time in Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, Florence, Rome, and some other shorter stays in between.
Hope that helps.
We used AirBnB and got full apartments for rent for about $100 per night and less. Some places obviously costed more than other's, but we never went over $700 for an entire week. All of the places we chose have full kitchens, washers, and are close to the center of the towns we're staying in. I definitely recommend checking it out, because it was really easy and affordable once you know where you want to stay!
We rented apartments for weeks at a time in Amsterdam, Paris, Barcelona, Florence, Rome, and some other shorter stays in between.
Hope that helps.
Dec 30th, 2013, 02:48 PM
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Being retired is wonderful when it means you can travel more 
My experience with longer stays is that we don't spend as much money on food on an average as with shorter trips. We stay in apartments and eat more like we do at home which is one large meal a day and then light eating at the other times of the day. Luckily my husband and I have similar travel eating styles. After our last trip to France which was for 4 weeks, I came to the realization that as much as I'd like it to be all about the food---I just can't eat that much day after day!!! Deborah
My experience with longer stays is that we don't spend as much money on food on an average as with shorter trips. We stay in apartments and eat more like we do at home which is one large meal a day and then light eating at the other times of the day. Luckily my husband and I have similar travel eating styles. After our last trip to France which was for 4 weeks, I came to the realization that as much as I'd like it to be all about the food---I just can't eat that much day after day!!! Deborah
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