propita

I am sorry this is long--and repetitive to prior posts--but it’s the only way I’m keeping things straight in my head. And I invite answers, comments, and suggestions.

So now he’s dropped NYC from out itinerary--just London and Paris. YAY! This means we get 12 nights in London and 9 in Paris. We can really have a good introduction to both cities. We plan on leaving Fresno April 22. For reasons I’ve posted elsewhere here--and some posters agree; others do not (to each their own)--we will fly out from FAT and transfer, most likely at LAX or SFO. Arrive in London the next day.

Hubby wants to stay near St Pancras; we’ll be taking the eurostar to Paris and he wants to be near the station. I know, there’s transportation to GET TO St Pancras easily, but this is what he wants and it’s really not worth arguing about. So I’m looking up hotels (cheap one) and apartment rentals (thelondonagent.com, airbnb.com, and vrbo.com). We’re liking the idea of an apartment. The cost can be similar (we’re looking at $200 US/night or less), plus there’s more room than a cheap-end hotel AND a kitchenette and washer/dryer. He likes that idea enough to up our hotel budget a bit.

1) Any suggestions on what to look for or avoid on apartment rentals besides reading the reviews in the listing itself? Or on specific places in our range?

We figure we’ll get a PAYG card at Heathrow to get to London. Hubby wants to do Oxford first thing and then we’ll try for Harry Potter the next day, both are high on our “must see” list. So we won’t need a weekly travel card yet--it wouldn’t get used those entire days, I believe. THEN, we’ll get the weekly card (AT A TRAIN STATION for the 2-4-1 benefits) and stick around town. If we want another day trip, it’ll be after the cards expire.

2) Any suggestions for other day trips? He’s not interested in Stonehenge (darn!), but I know some trips include it. Any ideas?

Eurostar to Paris on May 5. As a Monday, we’ll be able to settle in without losing opportunities at museums which would be closed that day. I’ve explained to Hubby, and shown him on the map, that Paris is pretty tight, so taking the Metro out and walking back shouldn’t be too hard on us. Once I showed him that the Champs Elysees is only 1.2 miles from the Arc de Triomphe to the Louvre, he got the picture. So that’ll be a carnet, as needed.

Hubby wants to stay near Les Halles--and I’ve received lots of advice here: “NO!!!!” I’ll be looking at rental sites, likely closer to Saint Michel. However, Hubby read about the rooms over the hospital by Notre Dame, and likes the oddness of that. Yeah, this is what I’m dealing with.

3) Any suggestions in the $200 US/night or less range? Or websites not mentioned above?

4) Which is the best method of getting from GDN (eurostar) into Paris, the RER or the Metro? I know both Les Halles and Saint Michel are on the RER line to CDG. And that Les Halles is the stop for Disney; and Saint Michel for Versailles.

I believe that taking the train gives us 5 days of 2-4-1 in Paris, so we’ll be gearing our sightseeing for that. After those days are up, we’ll be setting aside a day for Versailles; we don’t have to use the whole day there--playing it by ear. Hubby insists on Disneyland Paris and I won’t argue him on this. We’re big Disneyland fans and, yes, I’ve read lots of negative things about DLP, but we may never be inclined to go there again--and since we have the extra days, one day there is not reducing our sightseeing otherwise.

5) Based on people’s suggestions about the Eiffel Tower, does this sound like a good idea: Pre-buy tickets for dusk; take the Metro to Trocadero and see the Tower and Paris in the light; go to the Tower and stay until dark; reverse direction to the Trocadero to see it all at night. Good? Bad? Take the Metro to the Arc de Triomphe first? Do whatever the heck we want because it’s all good? I’m trying to be efficient--and show off to Hubby how I’ve spent my research time.

Anyway, thanks for reading through all this. I’ve posted short things before and people have questions because I wasn’t clear enough. I’m trying to avoid that, hence the length.

StCirq

Do you mean take off for Oxford just after arriving in London? No, that's nuts.

Also, I'd forget the hospital accommodations in Paris. Odd gets old pretty quickly. And I'd forget Les Halles also, mainly because it's a huge construction site at the moment, from what I've read. It's also the world's largest métro station, with all the "getting lost" connotations that that implies.

I wouldn't pre-buy tickets to the Eiffel Tower - you're locked in, and if it's bad weather (rain, clouds, whatever...), you're stuck.

nytraveler

I don;t get it. You're doing all the work but he is making a lot of arbitrary demands based on misinformation he is getting god knows where.

If it were me I would just organize thing the way YOU want - and tell him to just suck it up - unless he's willing to do the research and listen to what people are saying about locations and logistics.

Who died and left him king?

FrenchMystiqueTours

I don't know your other post and there's a lot I can't help with on this current post but here are my thoughts on a couple of things.

If people were saying to stay away from Châtelet-les-Halles because it's dangerous/unsafe/unsavory/full of sex shops and prostitutes then you can completely disregard all that advice. That is a great area to stay and is smack dab in the center of Paris. Since the renovation works began there a couple of years ago (it's a large construction zone at present) all the problems with the shady/creepy people that used to hang out there have disappeared completely. I'm there every day at all hours. The fact that the park is a construction zone has no impact on the vibrancy of the area.

You need to study up on using the métro/RER/buses in Paris.

To learn how to get around Paris by métro/bus/RER use www.ratp.fr. Here is a link to a route planner:

http://www.ratp.fr/itineraires/en/ra...herche-avancee

Here is an interactive map of the system:

http://www.ratp.fr/plan-interactif/carteidf.php?lang=uk

Since parts of this website are only in French you can also use www.transilien.com or www.vianavigo.com. Via Navigo probably has the most complete English website. A good website to learn how to use public transport in Paris is www.parisbytrain.com.

Gare du Nord (GDN) is IN Paris. It's one of several train stations within Paris (this does not include métro/RER stations).

Châtelet-les-Halles is not the stop for Disney and Saint-Michel is not the stop for Versailles. Disney is on the RER A line so any stop on the RER A line within Paris will get you to Disney. Any stop on the RER C within Paris will get you to Versailles. Once you look at the link to the interactive map I gave you this will become clear to you.

propita

@StCirq: A trip to Oxford would be the day after arrival. Take the train and walk around the place. Take all day to do it, if we choose. But that is something to think about regarding the Eiffel Tower.


@nytraveler: I’m doing all the work on research for a few reasons. I don’t work (we don't have kids), so I have the time. If I’m online 6 hours one day checking things out, I have the time to do that; he doesn’t. I’d rather he spend a lot of his time off work with me, not online. I’m also better at online research than him. Much better. I often get impatient with him about when he tries, but he brings up issues that I’ve overlooked or missed--and I’ve found that having a second pair of eyes on things is very useful. I don’t mind his “limiting” where to stay. The lodgings list has to be shortened somehow, why not for ease of transportation? It’s as good as any other when I don’t have a preference. Had I a preference, he’d assume I had a good reason and go with it.


@FMT: Yeah, I wasn’t clear about the RER stuff here. I’m aware of the other stops, but was focusing only on the stops near where we want to stay. My plethora of notes lists the other stops (“Take RER-C train from *any* of these Paris stops: “) but that will be deleted from my notes for clarity’s sake once we decide on lodging; only those closest will be listed. My notes include the various places we DO want to see, those in the area that aren’t as “must see,” hours and prices, nearest Metros, links to websites/wiki/TA, other notes--really anal retentive and pretty thorough for our particular usage. But as I posted to nytraveler, I have the time to do this, and it familiarizes me. And I’m a bit OCD. I don’t mind the idea of staying near Les Halles. To us, used to CA’s freeways, just seeing how subways work and how beautiful the stations can be is part of our adventure.

ParisAmsterdam

The hotel rooms at Hotel Dieu seem to only have skylights... not windows. I'd feel I was in a prison cell. As St Cirq says, odd gets old really fast.

See if you can find some recent photos of Les Halles to dissuade him. As far as Stonehenge is concerned, if you are keen to see it (I was lucky enough to be there in 1971 when you could walk right among the stones)see if you can find a day tour that will interest him and you go to Stonehenge while he goes elsewhere.

StCirq

Sorry, but sounds like the "hubby" is a nonparticipant in the planning but wants control - bad, since he seems clueless as to the realities on the ground. How do you actually interact on the ground?It seems pretty miserable to me from what you are recounting. I hope it's not so.

propita

I think you might be reading more into this than is intended.

He's very good at planning in general, but not as much when it comes to online research. I, on the other hand, am better at it than him and I want to understand as much as possible to minimize the inevitable problems. Nothing will be perfect, but a familiarity with possible problems that may arise is good, avoiding some of them is better.

For instance, today he came home and asked about lodging. I said that, at our price, the hotels were pretty spartan, but if we raised the amount and went for an apartment rental, I think we'd be happier overall. I had shown him the hotels before. Showing him the rentals, he agreed it seemed a better idea. As I've said, I'm a bit OCD. I focus on the trees--a lot of trees, but individual trees; I sometimes/often miss the forest. He keeps track of the forest. Our method worked great on our prior vacation to DC/NYC--me hardballing the research, him making sure I don't get lost in it, and telling me "you've done enough, let it go."

PatrickLondon

Couple of tips:

- play around with the interactive maps on the RATP website while looking at potential accommodation. Generally speaking, RER is likely to be less useful to you than the metro, where the stations are closer together (i.e., a metro station will almost always be much nearer where you're staying, and closer to the surface, though it can seem like a lot of stairs when your feet are all museumed out).

- get a carnet for Paris public transport in the departure lounge at St Pancras (from the Eurostar info desk). They'll charge you a disproportionate markup, but in absolute terms and in relation to everything else you'll spend in Paris (i.e., not more than a couple of beers), I reckon it's worth not having to join the queue in the metro station at Gare du Nord: you can just sail straight past them and the various odd individuals looking for first-time visitors to be "helpful" to.

Ackislander

It seems to me, folks, that this is an ideal marriage: two people who care passionately about different things and can approach each other's foibles with good humor and tolerance. It is a formula that has worked for 47 years of marriage for me and my wife.

Propita, you are indeed focused sometimes not just on the trees but on the branches and leaves . He is focused on the view from 35,000 feet ("I've always wanted to see Oxford."

He's not going to see a lot of Oxford ( or anywhere else) except in a strictly visual sense unless you intervene and provide some structure. Would he go for a walking tour with a guide? Would he like a Morse-Lewis tour of Oxford? Someone must do this kind of tour; research your little heart out! But you do need to look at the bigger picture so you don't spend your entire time bouncing back and forth across London or Paris to see a ton of sights in some sort of random order. The RATP app for Paris is truly brilliant as a way of seeing how things are laid out in relation to each other and how you can plan to get to them efficiently.

Have fun!

kerouac

For transportation convenience, the Châtelet-Les Halles are is excellent for going just about anywhere. In the good news department, half of the new park at Les Halles just opened last week. Even though the vegetation is still fragile, it is already a nice place for a stroll. It also received a new name last week -- "Jardin Nelson Mandela." It is right next to the excellent rue Montorgueil market street and the very atmospheric church of Saint Eustache.

nytraveler

Staying near a RR station for 6 nights because you will use it once makes no sense at all. You should staying a central area easy to get to a lot of different sites. And areas near RR stations are often not very pleasant.

As for day trips out of London - London has quite a few stations and trips to different places leave from different stations. So you're going to have to do a lot of moving around the city anyway.

jamikins

The area around st pancras is ok, but not the greatest location for visiting London. I would find something closer to the river...

texasbookworm

If your husband is "taking you" (as in sounds like he's the wage earner) for 3 weeks to Europe--he must be a pretty decent sort, right!? I too have done what you are doing--planning and researching all the details with DH's input and requests and desires as sort of guidelines and checks. So you go, girl--glean from here what is helpful; it's a forum so EVERYBODY is welcome to state his/her opinion (hey, we're not on A&E, right?), but I wouldn't listen too closely to relationship advice. IMHO!

Now, about your trip:

Some Oxford comments:

1.Definitely look into walking tours from the Tourist Information office in Oxford. Go to their website and see what would be available/interesting to you. I have been to Oxford 5 times, 3 with students so I have gone back to some of the same places each time. But when DH and I went alone, we took the Inspector Morse walking tour and it was a terrific overview. Then we had a bunch of time to see some other things.
2.About Oxford--I hear what you are saying about the day trips first/travel card next for economic sense. BUT a day trip on your first whole day in London--well, I might rethink that. It's not an impossible plan, but still, you might enjoy it more after a bit more time. Just a thought. Also what if it's a rainy day? There's plenty to do in London if the weather's bad, but I'd want as pretty a day as possible for any day trips, like in Oxford when a lot of your time will be walking outside. I'd guess.
3.Did you know there're two bus services that run often to Oxford--The OxfordTube (yes it's a bus) and the OxfordEspress (their spelling not mine). I haven't checked lately, but I assume they still do. It's a tad cheaper than the train, takes about as long, picks you up at several spots in London (we got it at MarbleArch at Hyde Park, I think), and lets you off a bit more central in Oxford than the train. Might check it out.
4.In Oxford I'd highly recommend Magdalen College for a visit; all the Colleges are pretty and are generally not open to the public until the afternoon. If you want to tour one, do check their website for their schedule so you won't be disappointed. Climb Christ Church tower. Ashmolean Museum is terrific.
5.Lewis/Tolkien fan?--Don't forget the Eagle and the Child. If you click on my name and look at my trip reports, you can read about my favorite day trip ever (in 2010) when we rode the bus from London, got off at a park-and-ride, walked to Lewis' house and gravesite, met a wonderful couple at Lewis' church who let us in, then caught a local bus into town where we spent the rest of the day (including the Inspector Morse walking tour and a visit to Magdalen College).


Other day trips? Are you looking for a guided tour? Can't help with that. We did day trips ourselves, using a Railpass. We LOVED Dover. (We also loved Salisbury/Stonehenge but you said he nixed that--they are pretty impressive, though--the cathedral and the stones) I haven't "done" Bath as a day trip, but I love Bath and it is doable.

I hope you find an apartment you like; we used a Bed and Breakfast agency--At Home in London--twice and got very very good rates for nice,roomy once/decent,clean, and roomy once, BUT didn't have cooking or laundry access. Had refrigerator use, so we often got stuff and ate in the room, but not cooked and did washing in the sink! Might look at them if an apartment doesn't present itself soon.

Ackislander has good advice--when you do start getting detailed about your days, DO group things by location, especially in huge London. Google maps with the pedestrian option will show you; I hope you already have a decent paper map you can use as you plan. Again, if you click on my name and look at my trip reports, I am "proud" of the ways I organized days in London to maximize time and minimize effort, whether I planned for DH and me, DH and DD and me, or for leading students on "free time" while on student tours.

BUT--(and this is from an over-planner)--do factor in a few things: the time it takes to travel to and from sites, no matter what mode; weather!!!! glitches of all sorts (transportation issues being big possibility); unexpected closures; wearing hubby or yourself out! So plan your days with 2-3 major sites and add a few maybes in the general geographic area. And I'd suggest you have those days be somewhat interchangeable. Oh, and I'd rethink taking the day trips back to back.

Happy planning!

annhig

Hubby wants to stay near Les Halles--and I’ve received lots of advice here: “NO!!!!” I’ll be looking at rental sites, likely closer to Saint Michel.>>

a really nice hotel near Les Halles is one we stayed at a few years ago:

http://www.hotel-britannique.fr/

if you book far enough in advance you may get a good price. it's very convenient for the metro and for sightseeing in central Paris.

as for the rest, i agree with a lot that's been said above - in particular, doing Oxford the day you arrive seems bats. Why go there when you'll be tired, when it's something he so wants see?

alanRow

<i>I know, there’s transportation to GET TO St Pancras easily, but this is what he wants and it’s really not worth arguing about. </i>

Quite a sensible idea, it means that you don't have to worry about reaching the station in time and the area has excellent Tube links

<i>We figure we’ll get a PAYG card at Heathrow to get to London. Hubby wants to do Oxford first thing and then we’ll try for Harry Potter the next day</i>

Take the bus from Heathrow to Oxford, stay overnight, then go to London the next day. At some point after that do Harry Potter World or whatever it's called

stokebailey

One reason to see Oxford a little later is appreciating how ancient it feels compared to a London that's continually rebuilding itself.

Have you tried londontown.com/hotels ? Studios2Let Apartments on North Gower Street looks possibly spartan but cheap and well reviewed, and near St. Pancras.

We've used airbnb.com with success in Paris, and found the Marais area, just west of Les Halles, perfect for pleasing everyone in the family.

stokebailey

Alan's idea of going to Oxford first sounds excellent, actually. Nice low key first day.

Mimar

As others have implied, after a long flight from the US west coast, you will be jet-lagged and sleepy when you arrive at Heathrow. And for a day or two afterwards. In this case, I'd save Oxford for when you're more awake and can make better use of your time. Also for a day with good weather.

London has a lot of options; with so many days you can tailor your itinerary according to the weather and how you feel.

I would caution you to take great care when renting an apartment. I personally prefer renting through reputable agencies like Vacation in Paris, where the agency has vetted the apartments. Yes, it costs a little more, but that extra is a form of insurance. Other sites like vrbo are just listing conveniences for owners. What guarantees there are just re-imburse you afterwards; if the apartment doesn't exist, or is not as advertised or is dirty, you'll have to scramble around to find another place to stay.

propita

Thanks, everyone! Especially for the recommendations re: Oxford. We’ll see how we feel. I have notes on the sights there, museums, etc--and a map. I noted the main transport options (train or bus) and we agreed that the train would be a nice adventure for us and, we’re told, would avoid potential traffic issues. We’re from CA, trains are not our typical mode of transportation, so they’re always “new” to us.

I had read about buying carnets at St Pancras, thanks for the reminder. And I believe I can get a true chip and pin card from USAA, to be used if anything else we’ll be carrying fails.

We know to group our sightseeing around an area. In DC and NYC, we did a bit of criss-crossing after a few days, but that was more to pick up outlying locations or places lower on our priority list. His organization skills work on that part, since he remembers everything (which is why I do research and note-taking).

He’s got a mind like a steel trap. I have a mind like a steel sieve. **sigh**

But, as was posted, we complement and accommodate each other. After 26 years together, we’ve gotten pretty good at it.

As long as it’s not too cold (< 50 F) or too wet (pouring rain), we can manage. Fresno gets pretty cold in winter and very hot in summer, so we’re used to weather.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas everyone!!