RP2015

Traveling with parents (mid 50s, no health problems) and 2 adults who have never been to Europe. We are going for 15 days (excluding travel days from US) in September with the following itinerary:

Paris/Versailles - 3 days
*Madrid - 2 days
Seville/Granada - 1.5 days
Barcelona- 3.5 days
Zurich/Lucerne - 2 days
Rome - 2.5 days
Copenhagen - half a day (flying out of that evening)

Does this seem doable (with flights between most cities/countries)?

Any alternate cities to replace Madrid? Although Madrid has much to offer, it is not as exciting as the other cities we are going to in terms of uniqueness. Not knowing when my parents would be able to travel back to Europe, I want this trip to be the best that it can be.

Your advice would be appreciated!

PalenQ

You do not seem to be counting time it takes to get between those places - Paris to Madrid even if flying takes a half day and by rail all day - ditto Barcelona to Switzerland. I would shorten down the itinerary and see some of lovely Europe in between mega tourist cities - now you see a handful of tourist meccas but other than that only tarmcas and airports - Madrid to Seville is only a few hour train ride - anyway consider shortening the distances between cities and think about Europe's fantastic rail system:

Barcelona to Madrid is quicker than flying now all told
Ditto Madrid to Seville - Venice would be at the top of my list for my parents - scratch a brief look at Switzerland and take the train from Rome to Venice and then there is an overnight train Venice to Paris (www.thello.com) - have that experience - get two doulbe private compartments adjoining each other - bring any food or drink onboard and relax - saving time even over flying and also the cost of a night in a hotel.

Maybe do Amsterdam from Paris - a short few hour ride now and fly from there. It has everything Copenhagen does IMO and more - though I love Copenhagen.

OK - I'm a rail advocate to see the Europe in between tourist meccas - for lots of great info to plan a European rail trip: www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Kathie

So you have 15 days and you plan to visit 7 places and some of these have day trips! As PQ notes, you have forgotten to figure in transport time. You have also forgotten to allow time to see/experience these places. Also, you have a small group, so everything will take longer than it would with a single person or a couple.

It takes 4 nights in a place to have three days, so your idea of how much time you would have in each place and the reality of it are completely different. With 15 days, I recommend 3 or 4 places. Three places if you intend to do day trips. So you have a lot of editing to do to get a realistic itinerary.

This is the usual error first-timers make - there is so much you want to see and do you schedule way too many stops. And of course, the more stops you schedule the less time you have to see/do/experience what you came to Europe for.

janisj

Sorry -- but this is a really dreadful itinerary. Not to be mean -- honest. But if you do this as spelled out you will have next to NO time most places.

What you will actually have is more like:

Paris/Versailles - 2.5 days
Madrid - 1 day and a few hours
Seville/Granada - 1 day
Barcelona- 3 days
Zurich/Lucerne - 1 day and maybe a few hours
Rome - 2 days
Copenhagen - No time at all since you have to first get there from Rome and are flying out that evening

Back to the drawing board - and understand that a group of 4 adults will take longer doing most things (meals/sightseeing/etc)

Are the flights in to Paris and out of Copenhagen already booked? If so - do Paris, Copenhagen plus a couple of cities in either Italy OR in Spain.

greg

If doable = physically move your bodies = yes, you can move around.
If doable = enjoy what each place have "much to offer" = no, you are too busy moving around.

Stating in terms of day usually under counts time to move. It is harder to finagle by counting nights. Unlike days, it is harder to double count the same night twice in two far away places.
My guess of the current itinerary in terms of nights:

Paris - 3 nights
Madrid - 1 night
Seville - 2 nights
Barcelona - 3 nights
Zurich/Luzern - 2 nights
Rome - 3 nights
Copenhagen - 0 night

This easily shows where you have little time. Between every two nights is a full day. You have 8 full days spread over 7 cities. Rest are fractional days. It would enlighten you if you actually lay out what can be accomplished with each itinerary with practical travel time, opening days and time of target attractions. Why in more detail? For example, if we postulate in Madrid you want to visit Prado, but your lion's share of time there is Monday. Guess what, Prado is closed on Monday. So if that was the reason for Madrid, then the total time taken away from the rest did not accomplish your reason to be there. Yes, you moved your bodies to Madrid, if that is what you meant by doable.

Unless you are visiting Copenhagen because your flight forces you to have a long layover on the way home from Rome, what do you expect to do in Copenhagen in what little time in the city, of course depending on your return flight time?

nytraveler

Agree with the above. You are making the classic first-timers mistake of thinking that more is more. In fact, less (fewer places) is more. Be reducing your time spent in transit you will see more sights, get a better feeling for these cities and have time to actually enjoy your trip.

As it stands it is just a tour of the rail stations (or airports) of europe. The worst is Copenhagen. Do you actually have ANY time there - are you flying there on our day # 2 in Rome - or the am of the day listed an 1/2 day in Copenhagen? If the latter will be more like 2 or 3 hours there.

Please lay this trip out day by day, listing where you will start, where you will sleep and the plane or train trip if any. If you do that you will see how little time you actually have to see/do anything. And agree you need to consider days of the week (museums and many sights are closed one day of the week - varies by country and sight).

PalenQ

Yes indeedy - less can be more! Much more!

RP2015

Thank you all for your replies. I considered travel time when I put together the itinerary above, so let me add those in in case it might be more useful! (Majority of our travel is by plane, sorry PalenQ!)

Day 1- arrive by flight to Paris at night.
Day 2- Paris (we are seeing the popular tourist sites and the only museum visit is to the Louvre).
Day 3- Louvre museum/Paris sites (not seen in Day 1)/Seine River Cruise at night.
Day 4- Versailles day, evening (after 7pm) fly out to Seville, with total travel time (including transportation to/from airports) 5 hours.
Day 5- Seville
Day 6- fly out in AM to Barcelona, landing around 8:40am, checking in early at hotel/leaving luggage at heading out for site sighting by 12pm
Day 7- Barcelona
Day 8- Barcelona (either stay in Barcelona or fly out late evening after 8pm to Switzerland)
Day 9- (if AM flight, then land around 8:15am or 11:40am) Switzerland
Day 10- Switzerland (scenic train)
Day 11- Switzerland (late evening flight out at 9pm to Rome)
Day 12- Rome
Day 13- Rome (Vatican)
Day 14- Rome
Day 15- *extra day for another city on the way to one of the cities above or adding in the extra day to one of the cities above.
Day 16- Copenhagen evening.
Day 17th- Copenhagen till mid-afternoon, flying out evening to US.

Copenhagen is booked as our entry/exit out of Europe. We can do the itinerary above in reverse as well. My family will only be visiting one art museum (Louvre) for the entire trip.

With this detailed itinerary, do you all still feel it is not realistic?

Switzerland: I am torn between staying in Lucerne and Interlaken. I would like to do one easy hike in either Lucerne or around Interlaken. Any recommendations?

Scenic Train ride - Golden Pass Scenic Train or Glacier Express? OR is there another train ride we could do between Switzerland and Italy?

Food recommendations for vegetarians?

Thank you again for your help!

LSky

Even if the majority of your travel will be by plane, you'll have to get to the airports, fly and get from airports.

Where are you traveling from? Day 1 will be consumed by travel weariness, no matter what age group.

Why do you want to travel at this speed? Are you afraid you'll never get back?


Do you feel that since you're spending the money you want to get the most from it?
(it's not my business but you're asking for help with your vacation and I love to travel.)

It looks like you're committed to seeing all the "sights" as quickly as possible and it's looks like a hectic feat but possibly doable for a tourist.

Why not give yourself an opportunity to be travelers and create memories of experiences instead of rushing around.

Why not just go to Spain? It's a marvelous country. Barcelona, Sevilla, Granada, Madrid.

Or consider Paris and a trip to Switzerland.

LSky

BTW a trip to France in itself would give you a wonderful taste of Europe. Combine a couple of cities and countryside.

nytraveler

Well I think you are not being very realistic on your travel times. You list a flight from Paris to Seville leaving after 7 pm (I didn't find any nonstops but presumably you have confirmed that there is such a flight on the day you need) and I think 5 hours total is just not how long it will take.

The flight itself is 2.5 hours. You need to check in at least one hour in advance, which means arriving at the airport 1.5 hours in advance (minimum) and leaving Paris an hour before that - so you are already up to 5 hours. And this does not include packing and checking out of your Paris hotel, deplaning in Seville and getting into the center of town, finding your new hotel and checking in/unpacking - so more like 7 hours than 5.

I suggest that your other travel timings are also probably too short. As is the time you have allotted in each city to actually see anything.

Its your trip so you have to make your own decisions. But I think you will find you have spent a lot of time and money for what will end up a not very satisfying blur of images in which all of the countries run together.

LSky

Then there is the matter of the flight over. Does everyone in your group sleep on planes?

How long is your flight to CDG?

RP2015

We will be traveling from Florida, a 9-hour flight to CDG. My parents don't take trips often so it's a big deal to my sister and me that they get the most exposure to Europe on the chance that they don't make it back later. I also made this itinerary based on a recent trip my friends (group of 6 people) took who spent 7 days visiting Barcelona, Madrid, and Seville and found themselves bored, wishing they had planned another city in there. Hence, I chose 6/7 cities in my two weeks.

If you still feel my trip is too much, can you suggest a better itinerary please?

janisj

>> My parents don't take trips often so it's a big deal to my sister and me that they get the most exposure to Europe on the chance that they don't make it back later<<

You are mainly 'exposing' them to a whole lot of jumping around and hassle. If you want them to enjoy themselves -- try to avoid this forced march.

>>friends (group of 6 people) took who spent 7 days visiting Barcelona, Madrid, and Seville and found themselves bored, <<

That may say more about them and their choices than where they traveled . .

LSky

What a wonderful thing to do for your parents. They're lucky to have you and your sister.

The one thing you've done is come to a board with many people who are your parents age. If you really want to do something wonderful for them then ask them this, "when you think of Europe and what you want to see when you go there. What do you envision?"

The may say, "Castles, art, food, fashion whatever or a little of all of that."

Then concentrate on showing them that.

If they've already told you, tell us. We've been there a few times and we could help you make that for them in a way that they will appreciate and enjoy.

They may be active and fit, so are many of us. But we're also aware that the way to enjoy life is to slow down too. We are really a veritable pool of information. Show them a good time in Europe and I'll bet they'll want to come back for more.

What do they like?

LSky

Sorry, one other thing. Do they speak any other language than English?

And could you possibly give them fewer places while you and your sister jet about?

Sassafrass

I personally detest flying and in addition to the flights going and coming, you have your parents flying at least five more times. 7 flights in two weeks, when trying to see things in between and I would want to kill myself half way through.

Flying is just not relaxing any way you cut it, and getting up super early for a very early flight or arriving at mid-night and falling into bed to sleep a few hours and get up and tour the next day would be a killer. Example: you will tour in Paris and catch a flight after 7:00 pm to Seville. Minimally, you won't get to a hotel and into bed until well after midnight. You plan to see Seville for one day and catch an early morning flight the next day. You have a similar plan to get to your hotel in Rome after mid-night. That is torture for the body.

Your parents' memories should not be of 7 airports and blurry mid-night arrivals and gulped cups of coffee to make it to the airport in the morning.

In your new itinerary, you did not mention Granada. Did you decide to leave it out? It was not possible to combine it in one day with Seville anyway, but is a world heritage site, so too bad you are not chucking other places and seeing more of Spain.

It is unclear. You say you are flying from Florida to CDG, but you also say you are booked into (and) out of Copenhagen. Going to Copenhagen for an evening and part of a day - lot of time and money wasted on basically a drive by. Hope you can change it and drop it. If not, make it work by giving it enough time to be worthwhile.

You are spending as much time getting to Seville and departing Seville as you actually are being there. If your parents have an interest in it, stay longer and see Granada also and Cordoba, possibly Madrid and Toledo. If there is not enough interest to give it a few more days, then, Skip it.

Realistic itineraries you could aim for.
Paris, bit of Spain & bit of Italy
Paris, bit of Switzerland, bit of Italy
Spain and Paris
Italy and Paris
Paris, Barcelona, bit of Italy

LSky

"took who spent 7 days visiting Barcelona, Madrid, and Seville and found themselves bored, wishing they had planned another city in there"

Just one thing about this, the people were bored, not because of the place but because of preparation. You're already not going to make this mistake because you're already asking questions.

Do some research about your places. You and your sister might want some fun at night, maybe your parents won't. Research the places you'll want to go without your parents.

Paris is an amazing city. Anyone could easily spend 2 weeks there alone and then enjoy the surrounding areas.

Sassafrass

A new approach. Forget thinking about cutting places. Take instead a positive approach.

Decide the #1 place you and your parents want to see if they could see nothing else. List Everything they want to do/see there and allow plenty of time to do it. Be generous with time. Allow for eating and cafe sitting.

Now, choose the #2 place and do the same thing. Then, add in the amount of time it will take to get from #1 to # 2.

Now, choose # 3. Again, be generous with time. Make sure to include absolutely everything your parents want to see there. Add the time to get from #2 to # 3.

You should just about be running out of days.
Build a great trip by Focusing positively on creating an exciting itinerary rather than listing a whole bunch of possibilities and then shortchanging them all or getting stressed trying to cut some.

janisj

LSky and sassafrass make some great suggestions:

>>Then, add in the amount of time it will take to get from #1 to # 2.<<

Yes, but be sure use realistic times -- a 2 hour flight usually takes about 6 hours Hotel to Hotel - and can easily eat up 7 or 8 when you figure in the packing/unpacking/checking out/checking in.