Lisa

I know this may sound like a silly question, but I'll be traveling to Paris for the first time in September and I'd like to know how to order wine in a restaurant or cafe. Are you expected to specify the wine by name, or can you just ask for red or white? I get itimidated ordering wine at home, and I really don't want to look silly trying to do it in Paris. Any advice would be appreciated.

Dick

Do it the same way you would at home - look over the wine list, choose either something you know or something you don't know but would like to try - and in a price range you're comfortable with. If you feel unsure about the pronunciation (and you shouldn't), give it your best shot or simply point. If all else fails, tell the waiter or sommelier what you're having for dinner and (if you want) generally what types of wine you like, and what you plan to spend, and let him/her pick one out for you. <BR> <BR>And (climbing onto soapbox here) don't ever be intimidated, in Paris or at home or anywhere. You're the customer and you're in charge - everyone in the place, from the owner to the busboy, should be grateful to you for providing them with a way to make a living. Remember, they're supposed to know more about this stuff than you do - you of course know more about your profession than they do.

StCirq

Diane: Don't be intimidated. You have the choice usually of ordering the house wine (en carafe) or by the bottle (they'll bring you a list). If you're ordering the house wine, just ask for une carafe de vin rouge. If you have looked over the wine list and selected a wine, order it by the name of the wine. Taste it before you say OK - on rare occasions, the wine is not good. If that's the case, send it back and ask for another comparable selection.

xxxxxx

But what if I want white or a half carafe? Un carafe du vin rouge won't work.

StCirq

Well, order un demi carafe de vin blanc de la maison.

xxx

I knew that , just checking to see if you did, Miss Priss

Lisa

Dick, StCirq, <BR>Thanks for the quick responses!

OldFashioned

One other thing, do not sniff the cork. You feel the cork. It should be rather firm but pliable and moist but not dry and brittle. <BR> <BR>If dry and brittle or if it smells like sulfur, send it back. <BR> <BR>OF

My suggestion

You could just always order the house wine or rely on your waiter to chose for you. <BR> <BR>If you are interested and don't already know the different regions pick up a wine guide so that you can learn a bit about the wines produced in each region and their characteristics. It seems like you would feel less self-concious about ordering wine if you were confident that you had a basic knowledge of wine.

OldFashioned

All the posts make good sense, and I strongly reccomend a wine guide. But for a quick primer from someone that is not an expert...try this: <BR> <BR>1. If you like a big bold red,with a strong bouquet, big tanins, dry finish and a spicy overtone ask for the Cotes du Rhone or Chateauneuf du Pape (expensive, but my favorites), or a nice Gigondas. <BR> <BR>2. If you like something a bit lighter try a burgundy from the Cotes du Beaune or for a bit lighter try a burgundy from the Cotes du Nuit. These can also be a bit expensive. <BR> <BR>3. For something even lighter try a Boujelais. George Debouef Villages are always acceptable. They are lighter, a but fruitier and are much less expensive. They can also be served chilled, or at least I'm told they can, but if you ask and the waiter tells you no...then they are still good without being chilled. <BR> <BR>Whatever you do don't be "sold" something, because...you are the customer and you do not have to feel obligated. <BR> <BR>Also, see if they serve any of these various types of French wines by the glass, Find the ones you like and then have the bottle. <BR> <BR>Thanks, <BR> <BR>OF

Rex

I want to say all this in a non-condescending way, and offer you support and encouragement to learn about ordering wines - - whether in France or at home. <BR> <BR>You don't, of course, have to order or drink wine - - and no one will fault you if you make that choice. In parallel fashion, you don't have to order or eat meat - - or fish. If you like meat - - or fish, or cheese or anything that requires some learning, you move past saying "I want meat, but I don't know the names of any of the different kinds of meat" I have ever tried. <BR> <BR>And maybe you think you actually like wine, but there has been just too much to learn to get some of it straight. It appears that you DO like wine enough to know the difference between reds and whites (not everybody knows this even, so you DO have a foundation). <BR> <BR>The next step might be to buy four bottles of wine to try in the next week - - it won't kill you financially to waste the portions of the bottles you don't use, will it? <BR> <BR>Go to a local wine store (or even a grocery store)- - and ask for help in buying a 1) "lighter" red wine, a 2) "full-bodied" red wine, a 3) "light" white wine, and a 4) sweeter white wine. <BR> <BR>Some examples (choosing major "types" of French wines) might be: <BR> <BR>1) a Beaujolais <BR>2) a Bordeaux <BR>3) a Chablis <BR>4) a Gewurztraminer (despite the German sounding name, this is a leading sweeter wine from Alsace, the part of France that borders Germany near the Black Forest). <BR> <BR>Do your tasting at home WITH food; preferably a little buffet you prepare for yourself - - and significant other(s)? - - like a small steak or chop, a piece of grilled chicken, some kind of fish you like, and one "spicy" (Italian or Medican?) dish. You may not need to try all four wines with all four foods - - an ounce or two with three or four bites of these things (perhaps compare the two reds with the meat, et cetera), and you will find one or teo combinations you like better than the others. Or maybe you will find that you don't like wine at all. Nobody says you HAVE to. <BR> <BR>This is just a first step to getting a little more confident. You can stay with the "house suggestion" forever - - but won't you keep having this same lack of trusting your knowledge forever? <BR> <BR>Enjoy - - and bon appetit. <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>Rex <BR> <BR> <BR>

OldFahioned

Wow, great suggestion Rex! <BR> <BR>PS Are you the Rex that people kept accusing me of being when I posted on the "Sex in Italy" thread? <BR> <BR>OF

Rex

Maybe I am said person - - I don't know - - I haven't looked at the "Sex in Italy" thread since it went past about 3 or 4 posts, I think. Figured it was full of inanity, I suppose. But now, perhaps I will have to. <BR>

Lisa

Thanks so much for all of the advice!

Another suggestion

Lisa, Just try something new on a regular basis with dinner at home. I recommend keeping notes. Even though I recommend buying a wine guide it is no substitution to actually tasting different wines and sort of training your palette. My husband and I used to have fun writing our own reviews after we had dinner and sometimes we saved the label in our "wine journal". It was fun.

Roy Corbett

Some elegant dining establishments have a sommelier who will guide you in your selections.If you utilise his expertise how much do you tip him? Does it depend on the price or is there a "flat or going rate"?

Lauren

I agree with the poster who said you order wine in France exactly as you do at home. I know the difference between reds and whites but I am no connosieur, although I have been to many wine classes and buy an occasional nice bottle (nice for me is $20-30--no more). <BR> <BR>Two weeks ago I was at the Pre Catalan, a Michelin starred restaurant in Paris. OK, huge wine list and I am there with my daughter. My daughter doesn't drink much, so I knew it was only going to be one bottle. The sky is not the limit when I go to a place like this. So, I was very attentive to my bottom line. <BR> <BR>We had ordered the tasting menu. There would be fish and pigeon breasts in couscous and I thought it would be best to order a white. I asked the waiter for advice--telling him I was no connosieur and my daughter was not a big consumer of alcohol in any form. He directed me to the cheapest bottle of white wine on the menu. You know, I should have written down what we drank, but I forgot to. The bottle was about $28 and it was fine. <BR> <BR>It is not my belief that you go into a restaurant like the Pre Catalan to learn about wine because you will pay too much for your lesson there. You should do that in wine classes, where for a reasonable fee you will get to taste a variety of wines--including some higher priced wines you might never consider buying if you hadn't tried them first. Then you decide how much you want to spend and set your own agenda. <BR> <BR>By the way, the wine steward was very nice an nonsnooty despite my obvious desire not to try one of his megabucks bottles. We had a very nice lunch and my wallet survived.

curious

Most unusual. On a tasting menu , wine is usually included. Then I thought you told us "the general" paid for your luncheon. Were you realy in Paris or are you having delusions?

Mike

Just really reinforcing what has been said. <BR> <BR>In a good restaurant, ask the sommelier (wine waiter). Be clear as you can about your likes/dislikes, even mention a wine that you like. You can talk about price by all means. He (majority male, in my experience) won't be offended, and, if he is, he's not doing his job properly. Tell him what you are eating, and ask if your selection is a good choice. Ask him why he is recommending a wine. What you may find is that they overreact to your taking an interest, and get a bit enthusiatic, in which case I think you should be polite and attentive, and try to see the funny side. <BR> <BR>The sommelier IS an expert, and it is his job to avail you of that expertise. In my experience, they love to help. <BR> <BR>In my experience, the standards of waiting are higher in France than anywhere else in the world. They are not fawning or ingratiating, but polite, helpful and well informed. They may on occasion pull your leg, but it has always been in good spirit, as far as I have been concerned. <BR> <BR>One last point. Do NOT worry about things like corks. Really try to put all the etiquette stuff to the back of your mind - it just doesn't matter. I'm not saying there's no value to it, but that really can be intimidating. It is for people who want to engage with the wine/sommelier as an expert, which is OK, but absolutely NOT required.

Lauren

Dear StCirq--uh, "curious"--if YOU had been to the Pre Catalan for lunch, you would know that wine is ordered separately there from the tasting menu. <BR> <BR>And, with your manners, no one would ever buy you a drink.