mike

We have heard from different sources interesting things... <BR>*parisians do not wear jeans in the streets. <BR>*do not look american <BR>*wear dark colors. <BR>*no shorts.... <BR>and a few others I can't think of right now... <BR>anyway, are these true? and are there any other quirkie things we should be aware of, <BR>so as not to stick out??????? <BR>

Bob Brown

I am convinced that I would not look like a Parisian if I went into a Paris store and bought a whole new wardrobe. My wife dresses conservatively and properly. She has on several occasions approached store counters to make a purchase, and the clerk started speaking English immediately and before my wife said anything. Last September we visited the Rodin Museum on a "free day". As we approached the gate, one of the staff members said to us in English that there was no charge to enter that day. We had done nothing more than walk up. Perhaps she heard us talking, but I doubt it. <BR>I think there are some of us who cannot disguise our American origins unless we put a sack over our heads. <BR>And I think I had rather be recognized as an American rather than being perceived immediately as crazy. <BR>As for jeans, you see so many different get ups along the streets, that I don't really think it matters. Americans are not the only people in Europe who wear jeans.

Randy

Short pants are a BIG TIME no-no in Europe!

Donna

In general, Europeans wear clothing for its intended "activity": parkas only on the slopes, shorts to the beach, jogging suits and sneakers while running or playing tennis, jeans to tend the garden. There's a huge difference between looking like an American "tourist" and looking like an American "visitor". Dark clothing is a matter of practicality. When sitting outdoors and riding public transportation dark colors are the safer bet than sitting upon something in white shorts.

elvira

Younger Parisians wear jeans (teenagers where the baggies); if older Parisians wear jeans, they are 'newer' looking - no thin knees or faded/wear-and-tear. They usually wear them with a jacket and sleek top, like a silk shirt or nice sweater, and it's usually for an informal outing.<BR>I think we've confused looking like an American with looking like a sloppy tourist. As Bob said, most of us look like Americans no matter what, but that doesn't mean we can't leave the Sticky Fingers Tshirt and plaid shorts at home, and dress up (think "business casual", and you'll get the idea). <BR>The Parisians wear lots of black and other dark/neutral colors; personally, I think this makes a lot of sense when traveling - won't show the dirt or wrinkles that lighter colors do, and anything that'll save washing, I'm all for.<BR>A couple of cultural differences: the French speak much softer than we do. I always have to remind myself to ratchet down a decibel or two when I'm there. Parisians have a smaller personal space than Americans (most Europeans do) so you'll find people stand closer to you than you're used to; restaurant tables are VERY close together. Parisians don't smile at strangers (no "hi I'm Todd and I'll be your waiter tonight. How y'all doin'?"), but that doesn't mean they're no fun or stuck up. If you engage them in conversation, they will respond. And be prepared - they know more about the U.S. than we know about France (can you name their president? do they have a legislative body?). And the difference that always throws me for a loop - they do not ask what you do for a living, which is sort of an opening for most Americans in conversation. It's considered too personal - but you won't be tarred and feathered if you ask.

Joel

Mike, I lived in France for a couple of years and quickly learned that there is no way an American can "hide in the crowd". We're taller than the crowd, heavier than the crowd, MUCH louder than the crowd, in much more of a hurry than the crowd, and we don't have the same etiquette as theirs. To cap it off my French friends have said to me more than once that only Americans would worry about such a thing. And they're right; a frenchman coming to the States (and I work with about 200 of them) don't worry about it. <BR>My suggestion is that you try to set aside the natural American inferiority complex that we have about the French. You could focus on adding these behaviors to your repertoire for your stay: 1) speak softly, let gestures replace volume, 2) say "bonjour madame" or bonjour monsieur" before addressing an adult no matter what their staion in life; 3) wear simple, comfortable, and tasteful clothes avoiding anything that looks like athletic gear; 4)expect that the clientele of even the most modest restaurant or brasserie will be neatly and tastefully but seldom expensively dressed; 5)solid colors go a long ways; 6) use a little bit of french (no matter how bad you think your accent is) to be polite; in fact you might try this phrase as an opener when about to ask a question of someone who would not be expecting you to ask a question like a man in the street: "Pardonnez-moi de vous deranger..." (you'll find the pronunciation in any phrase book) It means "excuse me" but in the more polite french form. Above all things, if you feel yourself losing your cool, remember that being out of your element is a really stressful thing. It is easy to be scared that first trip top France. Stay cool. This may sound odd, but try to practice grace and consider yourself an ambassador with a responsibility to represent the USA. <BR>

xxx

Watch out for those Parisians! They also like to sniff your ass and hump your leg if you're not watching them. Damn dirty dogs!

Bob Brown

You mean all of those folks I saw in Bavaria running around in short pants were tourists? Amazing, because most of them spoke fluent German. <BR> <BR>As for detecting Americans in Paris, there is a very high correlation between <BR>nationality and sloppy dress, gross obesity, and loud conversation. <BR> <BR>We went into Bistro de la Gare last September to enjoy the salmon and "French fries". The Bistro has learned that by putting in a separate non smoking section that it can attract more business. We were seated there and soon became aware that the group of 6 on the other side of the area were Americans. <BR>How? The loud level gave them away long before I began to understand Texan. Not offensive, not profane, but loud. <BR>The young lady who was serving the area was astounded to learn that we were also Americans because she could hardly hear us talk. She spoke some English with a French strong accent, but that bunch had intimidated her because the Texan was quite thick. (At best I could have gotten only 75% of it.) She warmed up to us when we told her that we understood little French and that her English was quite good. The evening crowd had not arrived yet, so she had a few minutes after Texas left with only us as her customers. Quite a nice conversation once she overcame her hesitancy in speaking English and realized that my wife's mezzo soprano voice is quite clear. It was made that way by 26 years of first line patient care in the medical profession where oral communication skills are de rigueur. <BR> <BR>But then, too, she even got a stony faced Vienna police officer to smile and speak English in response to her question as to why the Ring was closed off with yellow tape, and where could we cross to the Hofburg? (Roller blade skating contest that day!!) He helped us cross!! So I think that a lot of the reserve we perceive as haughtiness can be approached if one is polite and has a legitimate question. <BR>

elaine

See also today's Travelsmith <BR>posting for more clothing comments--the question was about Italy, but the same issues apply <BR>I second what Elvira and Donna and Joel say in this thread

Miane

Here's a little piece I wrote for a practical guide to France...hope it helps!(btw. I'm French living in the U.S.) <BR> <BR>RIGHT ATTITUDE: Like every country, France has its own peculiarities. The French are often criticized for what Americans perceive as “rude French behavior”. In actuality, the French uphold a tradition of public formality and distance. The French will not be instantly familiar with you, as familiarity is often interpreted as invasion, hypocrisy, or flakiness. In private, however, the French are much more relaxed, and, once they’ve gotten to know you, are extremely genuine and reliable. The French are also highly individualistic and will do whatever they want, which may be perceived as carelessness or selfishness. In reality, it’s just a strong sense of freedom and independence. The French take great pride in their country, its history, culture, food, and style. In France, eating, dressing, and communicating are all an art form. Food and wine are an important component of French life. People sit down to eat, read menus in detail, listen to waiters’ recommendations and take the time to enjoy their food. Dress is a carefully elaborated form of expression, especially in Paris. The French will tend to treat you according to the way you dress. Although shorts and sneakers are now seen everywhere, they will stereotype you as a tourist. Communication is important in France, where people spend endless time debating and philosophizing. They will freely discuss subjects regarded as taboo or politically incorrect by most Americans, so be prepared to speak your mind. Although most French people are much more tolerant with non-French speakers than they are reputed to be, they will expect you to make the initial effort. They are also generally more fluent in English than their reputations say. <BR>

Frank

Miane, <BR>Well put. Your little discourse should be required reading for every visitor to France. I have visited France (Paris, Strasbourg, and rural towns) many times and have always been impressed by the friendliness and helpfulness of the French people. While I by no meand speak French, I have mastered the basic phrases and made sure that I understood the points you made above before my first trip. On that trip and all subsequent I have encountered only kind and friendly people, BUT I have always tried to observe the little things that make France so unique. Another thing is that important is to follow the etiquitte of always greeting the shopkeeper(s) upon entering the shop with a Bon Jour Madame/Monsieur, and to always bid them farewell when leaving. Failure to do so is considered very rude by the French. If all one learns is the basic hello, goodbye, please, and thank you and when to use them one will be amazed at the difference it makes with the local people. France is a wonderful country with many nice customs. Americans mistake this formality and emphasis on etiquitte as coldness and/or rudeness and it is neither. The French expect this from one another and from visitors as well.

tcc

Bob- <BR> <BR>I hate when people bash Americans because I see nothing wrong with looking like a tourist (hey, that's what we are!), but...I had the same experience while dining in Paris. I wasn't in the non-smoking section but I was seated near a large table of Americans where one lady was screaming at the waitress (she wasn't mad or anything, just VERY LOUD) "I'd like a glass of wine, one for her and one for me." She insisted on talking veerry slowly as if the woman was deaf and 3 years old and pointed at herself when she said "one for me" and then pointed at her friend when she said "one for her," and held up her finger to indicate the number one. The table was the loudest in the whole restaurant. The waitress then came over to wait on us and was quite nervous about speaking in English but she did very well. My husband and I still talk about that table even now and have made a mental note when it comes to how we'd like to come across when we're out dining.

Meg

I agree with the comments about volume level. On planes, in restaurants, on the metro - it's the fellow Americans I hear. Personal space is a totally different concept in most places I've been in Europe and Asia. I think all the small living spaces are conducive to people spending more time living outside of their homes, and their formal manners make it more pleasant for everyone. I also agree that formal manners may seem like rudeness to some but it's actually just the opposite. We Americans tend to think if someone doesn't gush, "Aw, gee - it's so nice to meet you. Where are you folks from? Enjoying your stay?" that they're being rude. I've never had one single person in Paris be rude to me. Many have gone out of their way to help me. <BR> <BR>As for jeans, I've only worn jeans once - on my last trip to Paris. We were going ot the flea market that morning and then wandering for the remainder of the day. I didn't feel out of place at all the entire day. We spent most of the day shopping the department stores/malls and the shops along Rue Rivoli and the Hotel de Ville area. I had on nice jeans with a nice sweater and leather shoes (not sneakers or special "walking shoes"). My husband wears khakis and Mephistos with button downs - every where, every day. I tend to add a scarf to whatever I'm wearing. <BR>I've had people approach me speaking French (and other languages - Dutch and Flemish in the Netherlands and Belgium), and sometimes they approach me in English. No rhyme or reason. I do speak French - well enough to buy something in most stores and how to ask for what I need, but I certainly wouldn't say I'm fluent. On this last trip, my glasses broke, and I was able to ask for help at the optician. That was a first. <BR> <BR>The advice above about greeting the shopkeeper in a store and saying "merci, au revoir" when you leave is an important thing to remember. <BR> <BR>As far as looking like a tourist, I'll be the first person you see standing on a corner pouring over a map to get my bearings, so I guess I will always look like a tourist. So what? I think the problem is that the term "tourist" has taken on a negative meaning. I think sometimes we get it confused with "ugly tourist." And - living in a tourist area myself, I can tell you there is a big difference. <BR> <BR>I think it all just boils down to manners and respecting local lifestyles.

Florence

"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untravelled, the naive, and the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty", <BR>"meaningless", or "dishonest", and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery which does not work too well at best." (Robert A. Heinlein) <BR> <BR>Doesn't it sum it all ?