I think no or little rain any place in europe in Nov - is not going to be a sure thing. In fact, I think at least some rain would be a sure thing for any period of more than 2 or 3 days.

I would focus on a city rather than the countryside - so there is plenty to see/do indoors if necessary. Then if you get a lot of sunshine you can be plesantly surprised.

Stockholm and St Pet are in a whole differnt class from London and Berlin. But I think anything north of the Alps is going to be chilly/rainy.

NY, any thoughts on where to go in southern Europe?

I wouldn't necessarily take London off the list. While we normally travel in April/May, September/October, I was in London on business the end of November and the beginning of December a few years ago. While the weather was cool and the days short, it was a wonderful time to be there.

Barcelona should be good but I wouldn't enjoy it for a whole week. What about Barcelona and Lisbon?

Art/architecture and you left off St. Petersburg because of the weather? You'll be inside mostly. The Hermitage with its 3 million works not to mention the decoration of the rooms alone; the Peterhof; Katherinehof; Church on the Spilled Blood; Peter and Paul Fortress

Barcelona, yes, and I would not limit myself to any one part of the city, either, in terms of sightseeing.

St Pet is a wonderful city - but Nov can be full on winter weather. (I was there in early/mid Sept and althouhg the first 2 days were fine it then got cold - like highs in the 40s - with very blustery winds.) So although it's a great city I would not do it then.

Agree London is a great option - as would be Vienna, Prague, Budapest, etc. Have nothing against Barcelona but I wouldn't do for more than 3 or 4 days.

Last November we spent time in Milan and it was great -- cooler but actually no rain though we were ready for it with trench coats, boots, good jeans as well as dressier slacks. On same trip we were in Ravenna (for a week--I had a mosaic course there) and a few days outside Florence.

I love traveling "off season," though we skipped Venice due to expecting Aqua Alta around that time (we have been numerous times and will go again).

I like your idea of south of France; just can't advise you -- In March 2013 we are thinking of combining Barcelona and southern France.

Mam, I like your sugg. of Lisbon - have been doing more reading and Lisbon/Sintra or Lisbon/Barcelona are appealing.

I haven't spent any time in London since 1977 and would really like to return, but the thought of spending my entire hol. in rain is just too much like Vancouver (although not this summer and fall!)...

I guess my choices for southern France are Nice and the area, and Sicily for Italy. Eastern Provence just doesn't grab me and I'd ideally like 10 mins. on the ground for Sicily.

Any other thoughts?

"I haven't spent any time in London since 1977 and would really like to return, but the thought of spending my entire hol. in rain is just too much like Vancouver (although not this summer and fall!)..."

You are talking about November - it is just as likely to rain in Barcelona or France as in London. You simply can't make this decision on potential weather. One time I was in London/Rome in late Oct/early Nov and London was cool but sunny and wonderful - Rome was COLD and pouring w/ rain. It could just as easily been the reverse.

Decide which city you most want to visit - the weather could be anything . . .

I'm working while reading replies and so missed Dukey's, NY's and Ann's - thank you, all.

I get your point, Dukey, re the art, but I like to walk a city too and my guess is St P would be just too wintery for me (picky, I know). NY, I'll look further into Prague and Ann, you've got me thinking about Italy again.

And I meant 10 days, not 10 mins, for Sicily...

SIcily would be a wonderful option but I got the idea that you wanted something that didn't require a lot of travel to get there. It is a long trip but well worth it if you have 10 days.

How about Puglia? I'm here now and it's lovely. fabulous food and wine, terrific architecture and relatively inexpensive compared to other parts of Italy. Not sure what the weather is like in Nov, but it has been close to 90 these last days with bright sun and blue skies.

Rain Wet days Av High Temp Av Low Temp
Vancouver 211mm 19 9C 4C
London 64mm 15 10C 5C
Lisbon 93mm 13 17C 11C

Well what I was trying to show before the formatting went pear shaped, and the submit button decided to submit itself, is that it's a myth that it rains a lot in London (only 64mm for Nov).

But it is unpredictable, you may have good weather or not, But what is predictable is that there is more to see and do in London than anywhere else in the world.

(the figs are meant to show rainfall, number of wet days, av high temp, and av low temp in November!)

those are 'averages' - doesn't have much of anything to do w/ what will happen this year. But going by that London is driest of all

Anyway, you won't be able to see the rain because of all the fog...

nope -- MUCH more fog in Vancouver - or even where I live in central California, than in London . . .

BowenLinda,

For a change of pace, think in terms of palm trees and olive oil. Nice on the French Riviera has many museums if you like art, some delicious food and it is well connected by train. Neighboring Menton claims it has the most sunny days per year of any location in Europe.

Sicily is not so well connected with public transporation, but if you kept it simple -- like a combination of Palermo and Cefalu, that might work. Palermo is a less relaxing city than Nice (maybe on a par with Marseilles). I tend to think of the other side of Sicily (Catania/Taormina) as being stormier -- certainly windier.

You are of course trying to thread a needle when it comes picking just the right travel days that won't mean rain for you. But the angle of light in the south generally makes for a lighter, brighter feel, and air temps are usually milder in the destinations you are focusing on. I don't think you are wrong to conceive of a get-away that takes the likelihood of having the weather you like into consideration. There are many places in Europe where palm trees and olive trees will not grow, and many places in Europe where Londoners own second homes or time shares so they can escape to a different weather experience when they've had it with London's gray weather.

"There are many places in Europe where palm trees . . . will not grow"

Well, since palm trees grow in far NW Scotland, that isn't much of a criteria . . .

Back from work, thank you everyone for your replies.

Mam and Yes, love the sugg. of Sicily and Puglia (both on my McKnight "long" list) but you're right, too much travel time for a short trip.

Sofar, love those stats. Man, I live in a wet city. Very interesting re London, something to think about definitely.

Janis, not so much fog, just hanging, ever-hanging, rain clouds... and we have many palm trees growing here, esp. in our West End. Odd, that.

Matera, thank you, I agree, I think I can combine a new-to-me city with "acceptable" weather. Light is important, isn't it, and Nice, with a day trip or two out, sounds lovely for a short visit.

Lots of great suggestions, thank you, I'll let you know what I decide.

L

As I mentioned up thread - you simply can't make this decision based on the weather. >>Decide which city you most want to visit - the weather could be anything . . .<<

In November, I rejoice in the falling leaves. We have plenty of them in Paris. For example: http://anyportinastorm.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=paris&action=display&thread=4597

We're doing Paris and Barcelona in early to mid November. That's what I recommend.

Barcelona weather first week of November, past 16 years statistics:
Daily highs: 64-70F
avwrage 5 hours sun pr. day.
One day rainfall pr. week.
http://www.wetteronline.de/cgi-bin/regframe?3&PRG=cityklima&ART=MAX&CONT=euro&WMO=08181&LANG=de&BKM=Spanien/Barcelona

Art (Picasso, Miró, MNAC museum etc.), arcitecture (Gaudí) and fabulous food from here to eternity. Barcelona is known for great cafés, tapas bars, restaurants and nightlife. Nice plazas and parks and the city beach Barceloneta.
http://www.barcelonaturisme.com/

Barcelona is also known for a LOT of pickpocketing, and not unfairly. I wouldn't find that relaxing.

But I suppose people will argue that just like rain, it happens anywhere.

I am totally puzzled though by these diktats being shrieked at the OP that she CAN'T make her decision based on the likelihood of seeing sunshine. Of course she can. And she should!

There is plenty of factual basis for preferring to go someplace where the sky is more likely -- MORE LIKELY -- to be blue than gray. Her plans could be spoiled by rain. They could also be spoiled by volcano eruptions, demonstrations in the streets (more likely than rain in Barcelona), or just plain disappointment in a destination never seen before. But she has wisely eliminated uncongenial climates.

"what is predictable is that there is more to see and do in London than anywhere else in the world."

Have you been around much? Have you ever noticed how different people are? Many people find more to do that interests in destinations other than London, and return to those other destinations over and over again to see more, and never return to London after being there for a few days.

But even if one were to believe that London has all that, is it possible it is because the climate is so lousy there -- Aldous Huxley famously derided it as having all the appeal of boiled vegetables -- it is a necessity to have a lot of indoor entertainment?

By the way, Aldous Huxley ended up moving to California when he began to lose his eyesight because the general absence of sunlight in London and overcast, low angle of light, strained his eyes too much.

Southern California.

It's perplexing that St Petersburg can be discarded as an option for being too wintery but would consider Vienna, Prague & Budapest, equally as wintery with short days, just like the rest of Europe during the winter.
South of France can be very cold in the winter with short days also, last winter for instance they had snow which is unusual.
I spent 3 weeks in Lisbon during November a few years back and it was very pleasant and mild.
Usually in London it doesnt get really cold until after Jan/Feb, but some years the real cold can start as early as Nov. You can't decide based on weather, because it can be anything because it is winter throughout Europe, not just north of the Alps. Madrid lies south of the alps and has the reputation of being very very cold in winter and very very hot in summer.

Don't be put off by the Barcelona pickpocketing comment. ROME has lots of pickpockets, too, as does Prague, etc., etc., etc. It can and does happen almost anywhere and if you are your usual cautious self it shouldn't be un-relaxing IMO.