ellen75005

I'm hoping that those of you who know Italy well can steer us in the right direction. Thanks to Italian law and my husband's grandfather, we were recently granted dual citizenship with Italy (and the US) and we just received our Italian passports - a dream come true! We're planning a three-week trip to Italy later this year to scope out cities where we might want to spend a few months each year when I retire in a year or two.

My work schedule won't allow us to visit until next fall. We're tentatively planning late October to mid-November, flying into Venice and out of Rome. We'll rent a car for maximum flexibility. The cities we're thinking of visiting are Belluno, Verona, Parma, Modena, Siena and Perugia. We want to stay in or as close to the city center as possible. We don't require a lot - cleanliness and a decent bed. We'll make reservations for the night we arrive in Venice and the night before we leave Rome, but we'd like to keep the rest of the trip flexible so we're not tied down to hotel reservations. Should we be okay at that time of year to arrive in those cities without reservations? As a side note, we'll have basic conversational Italian by then.

Also, if anyone has lodging suggestions for any of these cities, we'd love to know them. Thanks in advance!

Ellen

bobthenavigator

Wow---how wonderful-----I am so jealous.

It would help to know your budget for hotels. And, I would add Lucca to your list. And, looking at your other picks, I would add Bassano del Grappa.

That late in the year I would not worry about reservations, but I would have a ready list of potential places to book online perhaps a day in advance. I would not want to arrive and just start looking. A good resource to use in research is www.booking.com ---use the filters for price range and even locations. Good luck !

cmeyer54

When we've been flexible travelling, I've just made sure that my laptop is fully charged and the internet is up! I use either Venere.com or Booking.com to find hotels as needed. I would not want to arrive in a city and then start looking for a place after a day or driving and/or touring. I like knowing where we'll be staying even if its only a day in advance.

isabel

First off, for those destinations I would NOT rent a car. You can't drive in the city center of any of those towns and the trains in Italy are wonderful. They go city center to city center, no problems with getting lost, driving in limited traffic zones (huge fines), expensive parking, etc. - not to mention expensive gas and the cost of the rental. I do drive in Italy but usually just for visiting small rural villages that are not well served by train.

It would easy to fly into Venice and then do each of these for approx 3 days each and end in Rome. Each of those towns you could spend more time but if you are basically just trying to scope them out and see which you prefer that would be fine.

As the others said try booking.com for hotel reservations. Even if you don't want to make reservations in advance I would still find a few hotels in each city and then at least book them the day or two before you want them. You'll get the best prices and choice if you book in advance.

Appia

I'm with isabel on this one. She forgot to mention expensive road tolls on the autostrade (just went up 1st Jan.). Cars are just a nuisance in towns.

sandralist

For Verona and Parma you need to check whether your travel dates coincide with any important mega-trade fairs. They can really book up every single hotel room in those cities. I would check that for Modena and Perugia as well. You can often find this information by doing straightforward google searches ("trade fair October 2015 Verona").

If you do your research and take it very seriously that you must learn about ZTLs, it is possible to plan a trip with a car to these cities and to stay in lodging that are walkable to the city center. Buy a Michelin Red Guide to Italy to help you locate hotels that have parking that are right at the city walls. The maps in the Red Guide will show you where parking is. If you have internet connectivity, you can book these hotels online a day ahead of time (if there are no trade fairs!) I use booking.com.

In fact, you can do some research right now, well ahead of time, using booking.com to show you the general lay of the land. You can filter your search for hotels in say, Parma, so you can see only hotels that have parking. You can use the mapping feature on Booking.com to see where these hotels are located relative to the Duomo and other central sights. That will give you a general idea.

But if you are thinking you want to stay in hotels right inside the historic city centers, then you will need to book in advance and make arrangements with the hotels to get your there without breaking the law and getting a huge fine.

sandralist

I also want to note something else: Many train stations in Italy are not in the historic center, and require added transportation to get to a hotel the historic center if you have luggage. While there are always hotels right near the train stations, most people prefer not to stay in them. This is true of Siena, Parma, Perugia, Verona and Modena. I've never been to Belluno -- and had thought it was unreachable by train, but never looked into it.

sandralist

One more tip: If you don't want to limit yourself to hotels at the periphery, you can almost always find paid public parking next to the train station, where you will also find a steady supply of taxis. So you can book a hotel in the center that has no parking, but drive to the train station parking lot, and get a taxi to the hotel. That is no different than taking a train to the same city. In fact, that is what I would probably do for Perugia and Siena so that I could stay right in the pedestrianized historic center at the peak of these hill towns.

But for the other cities, which are not hill towns, I generally book a hotel at the edge of the historic center with parking, preferably its own secure parking so I can leave stuff in the car.

Alec

Often it's more difficult to get hotel accommodation in Northern Italian cities in the fall than during the summer, as many of them are more like business destinations than tourist. If you are flexible with dates and itinerary, you can often bypass fair dates and pay the normal hotel rate with a choice of accommodation. As pointed out, parking is hard and expensive in historical centres, not to mention ZTL, so bear that in mind (overnight parking may run to 20+ euro). There are hotels on the outskirts with free or own parking, but it can be miles from where you want to be and you miss out of the unique ambience of being right in the centre.

bilboburgler

Trains and conferences, good advice. I wouldn't even bother to check in the smaller towns, what I would do is book the night ahead and if you use something like booking.com you can often cancel up to a point in the day.

sandralist

You need to do the precise research, but there are hotels with parking outside the ZTLs but walkable to the center in Verona, Modena and Parma, and they are not miles from where you want to be and are quite a few are in characteristic neighborhoods, although obviously not in pedestrianized zones of antiquity. Perugia and Siena are tougher for being hill cities.

If you are very organized and attentive, you can go ahead and book hotels with excellent cancellation policies, because given the number of destinations you say you want to visit in 3 weeks, your agenda is already pretty much set as to when you will be where. However, keeping track of which reservations you have that cover which dates can be harder than it sounds, and forgetting to cancel what you won't be using is painful.

I just realized that you say you are only booking your first night in Venice, but you should book more than that, I think. Venice is a busy place year round and you won't want to be relocating within Venice, because dragging your luggage around the bridges and canals of Venice is a nuisance. If you can't bear to leave after 3 nights or so then of course see what you can come up with. But I would try to estimate now how much time you will want to devote to Venice and book an uninterrupted stay in well-reviewed lodging, since there are plenty of hotels in Venice that are not quality and you don't want to be stuck in one.

ellen75005

Thank you all so much - you've given me such good information and food for thought! Conferences had never occurred to me, but now that you mention it, I do know that the fall is a popular time in Europe for them.

I have a lot of research to do which I'll start this weekend and no doubt will have more questions. You're really making me think that the independence we'd have with a car might not be worth the hassle. And we love European trains. I'll sit down with a glass of good Italian wine and start to read !

bvlenci

If I were visiting those towns just for tourism, I would probably prefer to travel by train. However, if you're looking for places you might want to spend considerable time in, perhaps even buying a house, I would want a car. You'll want to see some of the more residential areas in these towns, and you'll probably want to see some of the nearby countryside, where living would be more affordable for month-long stays.

There is a train station in Belluno, and I saw it, but I don't remember how far it is from the center; we drove there, and were staying near Bassano del Grappa. Belluno was a pretty town, with the mountains surrounding it. I was there in the winter when they were snow-capped, and there were Christmas markets in the town. The other places you mention are much larger cities.

Appia

Yes, Belluno station is very near the town centre.
It's quite a long train ride from Venice though: more than 2 hours with one change.

ellen75005

sandra, thank you so much for mentioning the trade fairs; I never would have thought about that. It looks like some will be in full swing in October, with Verona winning the top prize. We will definitely keep that in mind when booking - fortunately our schedule is flexible, only wanting to be back in the US for Thanksgiving.

I've given a lot of thought to your comments about car vs. train and this weekend I've read a lot about driving and parking in Italy. Again, we're in the early planning stages, but I'm leaning toward driving in the north despite the watch-outs and doing trains for the hill towns, Siena and Perugia. The reason is primarily that in addition to scoping out cities in which to live in the future, this is somewhat of a Roots trip for us.

The ancestor through whom we obtained citizenship was born in Fabbrico, a tiny commune just north of Modena. And interestingly, all the documents I spent three years obtaining in order to be granted citizenship reside there now! We want to have the freedom to drive around that area, research family members, etc.

Anyway, 10 months before the trip, those are our initial thoughts. I've thought about all your comments and suggestions and I'm looking forward to doing more research - please keep your suggestions coming!

Ellen

sandralist

If you want to include Fabbrico in your trip -- and I hope you do because it looks delightful -- then you most certainly will need a car to get there. You might consider staying in the pretty nearby town of Carpi if you can find a nice hotel there, or an agriturismo near Fabbrico rather than stay in Modena, since using Modena as a "base" would mean dealing with a fair amount of traffic every day.

In addition to usual "watch-outs" when it comes to driving in Italy, you will need to add a "watch-out" for fog in the area between Verona and Modena that includes Fabbrico and its environs, especially if you come by way of Mantova. (That latter, by the way, is an utterly fascinating town if you have time to stay there.) Although the worst of the fog tends to happen in winter, there can be episodes in autumn around there that can mean hours of delay in driving. If you keep your plans flexible, it is much less of a problem.

One way to watch out for fog is by using this weather forecasting website. The Italian word for fog is "nebbia" and it shows up as grey bars in weather icons. But you should consult with locals in the area while making driving plans.

http://www.ilmeteo.it/meteo/Carpi

ellen75005

sandra, you've given me more to think about! Will look at Carpi and Mantua. I've bookmarked the meteo website - thanks. With so much time before our trip, I'm sure we'll sort out driving vs. the train, but both have their pros and cons. A lot will depend on how much my husband is up for the challenge. We drove through the Balkans and Albania - there's an experience - and he's driven in France and other countries in Europe, so he might decide to take this on, too.

sandralist

If you've driven in France -- let alone Albania -- you'll have no great difficulties driving in Italy. The Italians are master road builders. They are also excellent, if fast, drivers. If your husband has no problem with driving "offensively" as well as "defensively" he'll be fine. Once you understand the logic behind the ZTL's to keep tourists away from driving around the fragile, narrow streets of antiquity, you'll get the hang of parking away from any risk of crossing into one. Since you'll have connectivity to book your hotels, you can also follow the weather every day along your projected route and make adjustments.