lovetotravel2

We are in the preliminary planning stages for this trip in late September.

I had posted a question on the Germany forum because
originally we were thinking of flying into Frankfurt and out of Milan
but now that I am checking flight schedules and see that the flights out of Milan leave very early in the morning and we will be staying in the lakes, I am thinking of doing the itinerary in reverse because we can get a nonstop return out of Frankurt at 2pm.

So my new thought now is:

fly into Milan - transfer to Lake Como area - 3 nights including day trip into Milan

Lake Garda 2 nights

Verona/Padua/Vicenza area - 3nights - suggestion for your favorite place for a base?
Should we even be considering this area?

Switzerland 5 nights

Fussen - 2nights for Hohenschwangau and Neuschwanstein

Romantic Road bus to Rothenburg ob der Tauber - 2 nights

Train Rothenberg to Frankfurt airport for 2pm departure

As a little background we had a fabulous trip in Fall 2010 - our Avalon river cruise was cancelled the day of our departure - we grabbed a Eurail pass and travelled for 16 nights from Budapest to Amsterdam by train. It was fabulous. But we need to return to Germany to see Rothenberg and King's castles.

Thanks for any suggestions!

kybourbon

>>>I had posted a question on the Germany forum<<<

There is only a Europe forum, not individual country forums. The selection of a country is for search purposes and to tag the thread.

Depending on what part of Switzerland you plan to see, it might make more sense to go to Verona/Padua/Vicenza upon arrival and then head to the lakes.

treplow

Do you want to drive or go by train? Picking up a car in Milan and dropping it off in Frankfurt (or anywhere outside of Itakly is a costly proposition. I assume it will be train bus.

Some of the places you want to visit are harder to get to than others. So, give us some specific towns/cities you want to visit,such as on Lake Garda,ir Switzerland.

PalenQ

All those places are easily reached by train - and with that much train travel I'd consider the Eurail Select Pass for 3 countries - Italy, Switzerland and Germany - a Saverpass has two names on one pass and is cheaper than two solo passes - anyway for lots of great train info I always spotlight these fantastic sources - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

Again I have taken trains to all the places you mention - all have excellent rail service so if not motoring trains will get you where you want to go - one in either lake area investigate one-day boat passes to scoot around the lakes.

I would not neglect Lake Stresa and being every bit as interesting and nice than Lake Como and since it is smack on the main rail line to Switzerland could be a stop before heading to that country. Stresa is a sweet town on the lake and the famous three Borromena Islands loom lovingly just off shore.

lovetotravel2

Yes, we definitely plan on traveling by train so thank you for the tips. We still have so much to figure out so definitely appreciate the suggestions!

PalenQ

fly into Milan - transfer to Lake Como area - 3 nights including day trip into Milan>

You can take a train directly from Malpensa Airport to Como itself - well with one simple change of trains in Saronna - take the Nord de Milano (not part of Trenitalia so will not show up on Trenitalia schedules) towards Milan (to Cordona station, terminus in central Milan) - but before Milan get off at Saronna and change to another Nord de Milan line that terminates at the Como Lago (Como Lake) train station, right opposite the boat docks in case you want to boat to Bellagio or elsewhere around the lake (buses also go from the Como Lago train station to Bellagio I believe but not sure)

I found Como itself to be a very pleasant base and nice regional town with an old town center, outdoor markets, etc - I bought a boat pass for unlimited boating for a day and did a circular tour of lakeside hotspots, including Bellagio.

Bellagio I found to be one of the most crowded tourist traps I've ever seen - elbow to elbow with day trippers constantly being ejaculated from arriving boats - overloding the tiny town - now at night when the day trippers are gone this place could be very romantic but at least the day in mid-autumn when I was there it was a zoo - great for people watching but not that romantic town was thinking about.

PalenQ

Verona/Padua/Vicenza area - 3nights - suggestion for your favorite place for a base?
Should we even be considering this area?>

yes yes yes IMO after being in all three more than once. Verona especially overflows with great churches, palaces, Roman relics and a lively outdoor market - easy to hop between all three. vicenza was a Palladian joy thru and thru - Pisa to me is less a romantic town than a thriving modern regional town with some stunning old churches.

Are you going to Venice - have you been there already - if not of course I would recommend Venice as being one of the world's most beautiful and interesting and unique cities.

lovetotravel2

Hello... sorry to be so long in replying. We have been re-thinking the trip. Fyi, yes, we have been to Venice so will not be included in this trip. My husband has never been interested in Switzerland so we are going to just barely get our feet wet this trip and hopefully return after we fall in love with it! This is our new thought and would love any suggestions:
fly San Francisco to Milan/Venice or Verona?
Verona - 3nights - include day trips to Padua/Vincenza and Lake Garda
Santa Margherita Ligure - 3 nights - include day trips to Cinque Terra and Portofino
Varenna, Lake Como - 3nights - include day trip to Milan
Lauterbrunnen, Switzerland Berner Oberland - 3nights
Fussen for Hohenschwangau and Neuschwanstein- 2 nights
Rothenburg ob der Tauber - 2 nights
fly Frankfurt/San Fran

Thank you for any suggestions!

Dukey1

You might want to re-think flying into Verona. Yes you can but why would you spend that extra money which almost undoubtedly would involve a change somewhere (probably Milan!) when you can fly to Milan, get a train to Verona, etc.? Just a thought.

You can do as pal suggests and take a train from Milan to the city of Como (with a change of train perhaps on the way) and then a ferry or train into Milan and change there for the 1.5 hour trip to Varenna and a 10-15 minute ferry ride over to Bellagio or Menaggio if either of those are your final destination.

To get from mid-lake Como to Lauterbrunnen and beyond is going to take between 5 and 3/4 to 6 1/2 hours with at least two or more changes so factor that travel time into your three days/nights; from there to Fuessen is going to take between 7.5 to 9+ hours depending on the trains you choose and the trip will involve several connections so figure that into your remaining time as well.

Yes, and despite what the usual naysayers here will tell you, you can do this but you're going to be on the move a lot ultimately.

PalenQ

lovetotravel2 - sounds like a great plan - revised one that is - personally would move one night out of rothenburg to Lauterbrunnen perhaps but a nice nice trip outlined.

lovetotravel2

Thank you for the suggestions. If we take the Romantic Road bus it departs Fussen 8:00 am and arrives Rothenburg at 4pm. And then train next morning to Frankfurt for flight out.So just one night would be enough?
We did a fair amount of reading about the Berner Oberland area of Switzerland and decided on Lauterbrunnen as central for day trips and not too too small. We don't want a ghost town at night. The way our dates are working out, looks like we would be there around Oct 1. So if we switch that from 3 nights to 4 nights there is still lots to do?
Lastly, what do you recommend for the day trip from Verona to Lake Garda. I read that it is possible to take a 2 hour bus to Malcesine. The pictures look spectacular.
Thank you!

PalenQ

If we take the Romantic Road bus it departs Fussen 8:00 am and arrives Rothenburg at 4pm>

OK I got it now - I would rethink that marathon bus ride - I have done it all day and it gets to be, even with stops, a bit of a drag but it does let you easily see some gems you could not do so easily with public transportation.

And there 8is also the Castle Road bus Rothenburg to Heidleberg which I found way way more scenic a route itself than the traffic-plagued Romantic Road - winds along the river valley the whole way - castle-studded river valley and stops in dreamy old towns - ends actually in Mannheim I believe, close to Frankfurt and a possible last night place to stay for easy access to Frankfurt Airport - or Heidelberg which it also goes thru for a far dreamier old town also with easy access to the airport.

Shanna

Train are probably best. If driving - I found the speed limits in Switzerland to be confusing. And my GPS didn't warn me of a camera in Switzerland like it did in France and Italy. But Switzerland is beautiful. If I don't get a ticket in the mail, I'll go back.

lovetotravel2

Okay, we are nailing itinerary down a bit more.

Will fly into Milan train to Verona

Since train from Lauterbrunnen to Fuessen takes about 8 hours and 8 changes we are considering breaking that trip up and staying one night somewhere enroute - suggestions?

And since we will be pros at changing trains maybe we will forego Romantic Road bus
and just do the train from Fuessen to Rothenberg to allow for an earlier afternoon arrival there.

If we add another night in Switzerland we will be just one night Rothenberg and will take the train the next day Rothenberg to Frankfurt airport (3 hours).

Thanks for the help!

lovetotravel2

Oh goodness, now I am doing the very painful part of trying to book the airfare
SFO-MIL / FRA-SFO and am very surprised how expensive
the Germany airfares are! Milan is cheaper than Frankfurt??!!!
I can actually get non-stop return from Munich/SFO on the last day of Octoberfest (10/7)
for cheaper than FRA/SFO.
Looks like getting Rothenburg to Munich is only one more hour by train than to FRA.

PalenQ

Amsterdam is only a few hours by train from Frankfurt - try Amsterdam airport too for your return.

lovetotravel2

Thanks. I just checked AMS - not that much cheaper for the extra time involved. I guess we'll just go ahead and book the SFO-MXP/FRA-SFO. I was hoping by late September the fares would have come down a bit.

PalenQ

Since train from Lauterbrunnen to Fuessen takes about 8 hours and 8 changes we are considering breaking that trip up and staying one night somewhere enroute - suggestions?>

Lindau if about 4.5 hours along the rail route and IMO it is a wonderful city to stay over in - on a peninsula jutting out into Lake Constance and one of the prettiest cities in Germany IMO - a neat old town.

lovetotravel2

Thank you for the Lindau suggestion. We'll take a look at that!

lovetotravel2

Okay, we added one day to the itinerary and are saving $448! Would rather spend that money in Germany having fun that give it to the airlines. We feel $1178 is a decent price (SFO-MXP / FRA-SFO) and get the nonstop FRA-SFO return. Yea! Now back to the fun planning part. Always a relief to have the air booked!