canopus

Dear Fodorites
We are a group of 5 people (including 2 seniors and 1 kid) planning to travel from Netherlands to Black Forest. We plan to make a trip of 6 days/ 5 nights end of August and travel by public transport.

After crossing in to Germany we plan to use either Länder-Tickets or Quer-durchs-Land Ticket to travel to Black forest base/Freiburg as its cheap and we can see some nice scenery in Rhine valley

What will be a good place to break in between for overnight stay as well as enjoy middle Rhine valley (maybe Middle)?

This leaves us with 3 N/3Days for Black Forest.
What will be a good base town in black forest area with good access to public tranpsort and visiting with ease to some scenic places.

We have in mind to visit Triberg / Lake Titisee/ Lake Scluchsee/Baden area etc.
Also open to other suggestions of scenic beauty.

Kind regards
SM

PalenQ

Well any town in the Rhine Gorge is nice - St Goar, Bingen, Boppard - arrive early and perhaps take one of the K-D boat cruises up and down the river - www.k-d.com

check www.bahn.de/en for discounted tickets Amsterdam to say Koblenz or one of those towns or you may have to spend a lot more time with Lander Tickets to get to the middle Rhein as you are restricted to much slower regional trains and would have to get off the fast ICE train in Germany to do the Lander Ticket- you may get fares as low as 29euro p.p. - less for the kid depending on age.

Cologne makes a natural few-hour stop en route - see the world-famous cathedral smack next door to the train station (Hbf)

for lots on German trains and where to go in that area check www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com - for info on discounted tickets www.seat61.com.

No need to buy Lander Passes in advance - sold at every station in Germany - use automatic machines. But check to see that there are not gaps in where one Lander Ticket ends and the other begins - of course the weekend tickets cover the whole country.

Yes a small riverside town in the Rhine Gorge (between Koblenz and Bingen/Rudesheim would be sweet - the west side of the gorge sees a main road and rail line going along it - be sure your hotel is in a quiet zone - towns on east side tend to be quieter even though a secondary train line runs down it.

canopus

Dear PalenQ Thank you very much for the detailed reply. We have been to the Cologne Cathedral. So going to skip it.

What about staying in Koblenz itself?

Any inputs on -
What will be a good base town in black forest area with good access to public tranpsort and visiting with ease to some scenic places?

bilboburgler

Koblenz is ok, but somewhere like Bingen would be nicer.

traveller1959

I agree that Koblenz is - just - ok. But what about staying in one the the cozy wine villages? Oberwesel is very nice. Rüdesheim is very attractive, but also very touristy (and loud in the evenings).

Coming to the Black Forest. There are two railroad lines into the Black Forest.

One, the Schwarzwaldbahn, starts in Offenburg (a boring town) and leads to Triberg. Triberg has waterfalls, a Black Forest museum, many cuckoo clock shops. With the Schwarzwaldbahn, you can reach the Vogtsbauernhof open-air farmhouse museum and Gengenbach, a historical town with a museum of rafting (in former times the way to transport the wood that was cut in the Black Forest to Amsterdam).

The other railway is the Höllentalbahn, starting in Freiburg (a historical city with a gorgeous cathedral and many historic buildings) and leading to Hinterzarten, Titisee, Bärental, Schluchsee which is the "High Black Forest", the region with the highest elevations around the Feldberg. Within the High Black Forest, there is a network of bus lines which can be used (as the railway) freely once you have gotten the "Hochschwarzwald Card" from your accomodation (make sure to book accomodation that offers this card).

Titisee has a lake, is a cozy village, however crowded with tourists from Russia, Japan, China and Arabian countries.

Schluchsee has a larger lake, is generally quieter, but with full infrastructure. There is an interesting church (partly historical, partly modern) in town, there are all types of watersports that do not require a gasoline engine, a cruise boat and excellent hiking options. Particularly attractive is partly taking the boat, partly hiking.

There is an excellent network of hiking trails in the area, many of them leading to interesting points, like historic forest chapels, waterfalls or glacial moraines.

Some interesting destinations which are reachable by bus:

- The Feldberg offers great views of the Alps (on clear days) and is beautiful to hike. Hike down to the most picturesque Feldsee, a circular glacial lake, and have a meal in the historic Raimartihof farmhouse.

- Rothaus has one of Germany's most famous breweries (with huge glass windows and a little museum and a very recommendable historic restaurant) and the most beautiful Black Forest house which is now a museum (Hüsli). Also, two historic chapels in easy walking distance, one in the fields and one in the forest. Also, a sculpture garden and little lake nearby.

- Bärental is a railway station below the Feldberg, but has a schnapps museum.

- Altglashütten is another railway station with a glass blowing workshop.

canopus

Dear Traveller1959 You made all this so clearly that I could not have fathomed with many days of googling!
Thanks a ton!

I am really looking forward to base in Schluchsee.
But unfortunately not finding any affordable accomodation air bnb!
Any websites to look for?
Or any other well connected place in vicinity?

PalenQ

What about staying in Koblenz itself?>

Well I agree that Koblenz is for a larger city nice - especially because the Rhine and Mosel come together here giving it a unique thing but most will prefer vastly staying in one of the small towns in the much more beautiful stretch of the Rhine - Rudesheim is nice but is also tour group central - times I've been there mobbed with foreign tourists - which is OK but takes the ambiance away from this too small town to easily accommodate them - yet at night some will find the crowded streets to be neat.

swandav2000

Hi canopus,

Thanks to traveller1959's wonderful descriptions, I've also decided to stay at the Schluchsee for several days -- I'll be there in Oct.

I've decided to stay at the Hotel Sternen (Wochners Hotel Sternen), as I found a good rate for a single room.

If you're looking for accommodation, you could look at the central tourist site:

http://www.hochschwarzwald.de/Unterk...im-Schwarzwald

Unfortunately, I can't find an English button on it. But you could still use the booking engine there in the center of the page. "Anreise" is arrival, and "Abreise" is the departure date. "Ort" is the town, and with "Kategorie," you can look for rooms, hotels, pensions, or apartments ("Ferienwohnung"). You can also use google's translate tools to translate the whole page.

You can also use booking.com, which is where I found the hotel I booked. If you input the number of people, the search engine will come out with some solutions, including some apartments. But be very careful and make sure you map out where the hotel/apartment is!

Have fun as you plan!

s

traveller1959

air bnb is an U.S. company, it is weak in Europe.

Try the website recommended by Swanda - it is the most comprehensive one.

You may also try this one:

https://www.homeaway.com

Fussgaenger

"What will be a good base town in black forest area with good access to public tranpsort... I am really looking forward to base in Schluchsee."

The Schluchsee has a somewhat remote location on a small trunk railway:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ntalbahn_2.png

If you want a place that is mainly about outdoor recreation, Schluchsee is good. If you intend to spend most of your time visiting the sights and the most attractive towns - Triberg, the excellent Vogtsbauernhof, Schiltach, Gengenbach, Haslach, Villingen - then it might be wiser to stay somewhere on the Black Forest Railway (Schwarzwaldbahn) which t-1959 has described.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...28Baden%29.png

Fussgaenger

I meant also to say that the Black Forest Railway towns, in addition to ease of train transport, would mean a shorter trip to your base from the north and a shorter return trip as well. They also offer outdoor opportunities as well, and free train travel with the KONUS card. http://www.blackforest-tourism.com/info/KONUS

Here is a tourist-office-based, English-language booking site for the entire Black Forest - it's very complete:

http://www.blackforest-tourism.com/stg/ukv/

traveller1959

>> a somewhat remote location on a small trunk railway <<

Sometimes I wonder why someone posts misleading information.

The Höllentalbahn is a Regionalbahn train which runs every hour in both directions, with stops in Freiburg, Hinterzarten, Titisee, Bärental (Feldberg), Altglashütten, Schluchsee-Aha (the northern tip of the lake), Schluchsee (center) and Seebrugg (the southern tip of the lake).

The total train ride (very scenic) from Freiburg to Schluchsee takes 1:01. The train from Schluchsee to Titisee takes 22 minutes, and the total time from Schluchsee to the Feldberg cable car station (train + bus) takes 43 minutes.

Train + bus to Rothaus takes 18 minutes, to Sankt Blasien (spectacular baroque monastery with the third-largest dome in Europe) 28 minutes.

You cannot be more central in the Black Forest.

BTW, on weekends there is also the historic Dreiseenbahn running between Schluchsee and Titisee. It is a historic steam engine, with historic cars. Really fun.

http://www.3seenbahn.de/strecke/dreiseenbahn.html

Fussgaenger

"The Höllentalbahn is a Regionalbahn train..."

It is first and foremost not a train but a RAIL LINE that BYPASSES the Schluchsee. As the map I posted indicates, it doesn't end in or even reach Seebrugg - it continues on to Donaueschingen.

There are indeed direct trains between Freiburg and Schluchsee - but canopus isn't interested in Freiburg except as a way to reach Schluchsee. Titisee (which t-1959 seems to recommend AGAINST) is accessible easily from Schluchsee.

But canopus has indicated an interest in Triberg - and a day trip there from Schluchsee will cost canopus 5-6 train hours on 6-8 different trains. UGGH.

T-1959 recommends a visit to the Vogtsbauernhof, also on the Schwarzwaldbahn - a visit I recommend too. But that day trip from Schluchsee is similarly time-consuming. Gengenbach, which 1-1959 also suggests, is nearly as far.

So while Schluchsee may be geographically "central" it is not a good travel base for several destinations. The reason I post such "misleading information" is that it's NOT misleading but accurate and valuable to understand... canopus, there is no single ideal location that is central and convenient to everything, and you may have to make some choices for your relatively short visit to the area, depending on your interests - my previous post tries to help you sort that out.

Hoellentalbahn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B..._(Black_Forest)

traveller1959

Fussgaenger, I do not know where you live but I live in Schluchsee and I have ridden the Höllentalbahn a hundred times and I see the train running twice per hour from my living room window.

But some Fodorites always know better.

It is right that OP has to choose between the Kinzigtal which is accessible with the Schwarzwaldbahn and the High Black Forest which is accessible with the Höllentalbahn.

Triberg, the Vogtsbauernhof and Gengenbach are good destinations (as I have written), but I find the High Black Forest has more to offer. Titisee is cute and also centrally located with a Höllentalbahn station, but it is somewhat touristy with lots of tour buses in town. So, if you prefer a quieter location (and a better lake), choose Schluchsee as a base.

Whereever you prefer to stay, Titisee is at least a worthy destination for a day-trip or a half-day trip, especially if you ride the historic steam train to Titisee.

And there is so much more to see and to do in the High Black Forest area.

Finally OP has to decide where to go. We can only provide some information. But we are not lobbyists for one destination and against the other one.

Fussgaenger

"Fussgaenger, I do not know where you live but I live in Schluchsee and I have ridden the Höllentalbahn a hundred times and I see the train running twice per hour from my living room window.
But some Fodorites always know better."

No one ever said there's no train passing by your house.

Let me understand. You live in Schluchsee. And because you ride a single train from Freiburg to Schluchsee, you are certain that you are riding the Hoellental route the entire way. And thus Seebrugg is on the Hoellentalbahn and it's fine to call others who say differently "know-it-alls."

Well, I don't think I've said anything wrong about the Hoellentalbahn - or even anything mildly controversial. Schluchsee is not on the Hoellentalbahn route. In fact, trains that hit Schluchsee every hour are traveling the Dreiseenbahn route. You saw the map, right?

You are welcome to read up on the Hoellentalbahn yourself. Here are some sources. They're in German - maybe that will reassure you. Then you can take up your argument with 3-Loewen-Takt.

"Zwischen Freiburg und Titisee wird ein Halbstundentakt angeboten. Die aus Freiburg kommenden Züge fahren ab Titisee abwechselnd nach Neustadt oder über die Dreiseenbahn nach Seebrugg."

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B...n_(Schwarzwald)

(See the schematic on the right with all the Hoellental stops.)

Dreiseenbahn: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreiseenbahn

"Hoch her geht's auf der Drei-Seen-Bahn, die in Titisee in Richtung Schluchsee abzweigt. Stündlich windet sich die Bahn hinauf nach Feldberg-Bärental, dem höchsten Bahnhof Baden-Württembergs auf 967 Meter Höhe.
Anschließend geht's auf einem Niveau von 930 Meter Höhe am Windgfällweiher vorbei zum Schluchsee. Bahnende ist in Seebrugg."

http://www.3-loewen-takt.de/freizeit...oellentalbahn/

I don't bother with this because you're wrong about the Hoellentalbahn. I bother with it because you feel it's necessary to self-righteously deride other posters who in fact know what they're talking about.

"Triberg, the Vogtsbauernhof and Gengenbach are good destinations (as I have written), but I find the High Black Forest has more to offer... And there is so much more to see and to do in the High Black Forest area."

"But we are not lobbyists for one destination and against the other one."

Aha. You don't "lobby" - It's only "lobbying" if it comes from a poster with a different perspective.

PalenQ

airbnb is an U.S. company, it is weak in Europe>

Yes Paris has about the most airbnbs of any city in the world.

Weak in Europe?


zillions of folks on the Europe forum say they use airbnb in Europe -where do you get your seemingly misinformation from?

PalenQ

https://www.airbnb.com/go/europe

canopus

@ swandav2000 thanks for the excellent site. I contacted some of the rentals but most of them are for 4 people and they are refusing to take in the 5th person even if its a child! Something I dont understand.

Fussgaenger and traveller1959 I realise that its a difficult choice to decide! Everything looks good! I wish I had a car and more days to spend.Right now I am struggling with a place to stay.

PalenQ yes air bnb is good but maybe I am late in the scene.

Any hints on travel to Paris from Black Forest.
Any worthy stopovers or Direct connection from Offenburg?

Thanks to all of you again!

canopus

@ swandav2000 thanks for the excellent site. I contacted some of the rentals but most of them are for 4 people and they are refusing to take in the 5th person even if its a child! Something I dont understand.

Fussgaenger and traveller1959 I realise that its a difficult choice to decide! Everything looks good! I wish I had a car and more days to spend.Right now I am struggling with a place to stay.

PalenQ yes air bnb is good but maybe I am late in the scene.

Any hints on travel to Paris from Black Forest.
Any worthy stopovers or Direct connection from Offenburg?

Thanks to all of you again!

swandav2000

Hi again canopus,

The reason they cannot take the 5th person is due to safety/fire regulations. Remember that most of these rooms will be quite small, and having another person, even a small person, would compromise the ability of everyone to evacuate or to stay safe in an emergency. I'm sure you'd rather be safe!!

I do hope you find a good option -- many people like to stay in an apartment (which you can find on the link I gave you or the one Fussgaenger gave you), and that will give you the room you need.

s