Montichiari - Italy
Aug 12th, 2009, 02:13 PM
#1
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Montichiari - Italy
Hello,
I will be traveling to Montichiari, Italy on the 27th of this month. Over the summer I was an ESL teacher for a private boarding school in the US. Two of my students (sisters) offered to speak with their parents about having me visit when the program ended. The next thing I know I am being offered an apartment (one of their properties), a moped (recently received my IDP/motorcycle), and what sounds like the keys to the city. They also said that they would be more than willing to help me find some work teaching there.
Being a 28 year old american male, who is not fluent in italian, and having saved up USD4,ooo (huge money now a days
, I am packed and ready to go. I also have purchased a 90 day plane ticket because being american that is my legal duration.
MY REASON FOR POSTING ALL OF THIS:
This all sounds too good to be true -
Does anyone have similar experience doing something like this? This is a first for me and although I have a free place to stay and the hospitality of what seems to be a beautiful Italian family, what other things should i be keeping in mind?
To all who reply, thank you.
I will be traveling to Montichiari, Italy on the 27th of this month. Over the summer I was an ESL teacher for a private boarding school in the US. Two of my students (sisters) offered to speak with their parents about having me visit when the program ended. The next thing I know I am being offered an apartment (one of their properties), a moped (recently received my IDP/motorcycle), and what sounds like the keys to the city. They also said that they would be more than willing to help me find some work teaching there.
Being a 28 year old american male, who is not fluent in italian, and having saved up USD4,ooo (huge money now a days
, I am packed and ready to go. I also have purchased a 90 day plane ticket because being american that is my legal duration.MY REASON FOR POSTING ALL OF THIS:
This all sounds too good to be true -
Does anyone have similar experience doing something like this? This is a first for me and although I have a free place to stay and the hospitality of what seems to be a beautiful Italian family, what other things should i be keeping in mind?
To all who reply, thank you.
Aug 12th, 2009, 05:08 PM
#3
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Kybourbon would you stay home if you had this as an option? I just know that I have heard of others who have taught "under the table". Maybe you have? Just looking for a little advice here that's all
Aug 12th, 2009, 06:29 PM
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Good for you--it sounds terrific.
Here are travel tips that may prove helpful. Buon viaggio !
TWENTY TERRIFIC TRAVEL TIPS !!
After enjoying 25 trips to Europe, most of them in the past 25 years, here are some tips that we have found helpful. We hope that you agree:
MONEY:
1. Use your CREDIT CARDS for most major expenses[ hotels, car rentals, Ristorantes ] It will provide the best exchange rate and give you a good record after you get home.
2. There is no reason to get local currency until you arrive in Europe. Use the airport ATM for cash. ATMs are everywhere in Europe and work just like your hometown machine—even in English.
3. Bring 2 credit cards and both should have 4 digit PINS. Be sure to tell your CC companies that you are traveling in Europe—check your limits.
4. Forget TRAVELERS CHECKS—they were obsolete years ago.
5. Keep several 1E & 2E coins easily accessible---very convenient.
PACKING:
6. Pack lite and pack smart ! It is too much luggage that signals a typical novice traveler. Your primary rolling bag should not exceed 24”—check it ! Take a smaller carry-on bag that should contain everything you will need to survive if your primary bag does not arrive for 48 HOURS.
7. Pack a canvas tote bag to hold the extra goodies you will buy in Europe. Also consider bringing a wash cloth, liquid soap, raincoat and a hat for bad hair days. Be sure your knife with corkscrew is in your checked luggage.
8. Do not dress to advertise that you are a tourist, although it will likely be evident. Plan your outfits using basic colors and do not be afraid to wear the same outfit 3 days in a row. Try to dress in layers—shirt, sweater, jacket.
9. If you need to save packing space, wear your bulkiest items on the plane [ sport coat, dress shoes, raincoat, sweater etc.]
SAFETY:
I feel safer in Rome or Munich than I do in Miami or Chicago. However, Americans do get targeted by pick pockets and purse snatchers, especially in crowded areas of major cities. Here are some tips that may help:
10. Keep purses/cameras around your neck—do not lay then down.
11. Wear a money belt for those items you cannot afford to have lost. This includes passports, credit cards, travel documents.
12. Stay alert and vigilant— thieves will use DISTRACTION as their tactic.
13. Always lock your rental car and keep nothing in view you want to keep.
WILD CARD TIP:
The best tip I can give to any novice traveler to Europe is to always smile, be respectful, and never forget you are a guest in their country !
TRAVEL TIPS CONTINUED:
CARS AND TRAINS:
Rental cars in Italy can be expensive due to the high mandatory insurance. However, often a car is the best way to see many parts of BELLA ITALIA.
Rail travel is often less costly but can be quite inconvenient in rural areas.
14. Avoid driving in major cities—it is often a real hassle.
15. When driving on the extensive AUTOSTRDA system, be sure to stay in the right lane except when passing. You will need to pay toll as you exit the system—look for the VIA lane to pay by credit card.
16. You will need a driver, a navigator, and a good map. The road signage is good on the major roads, but do not rely on road numbers on secondary roads—that will frustrate you. Do learn to trust the directional signage.
17. Study your daily maps in advance so you can ANTICIPATE decisions.
TRAVEL TID-BITS:
18. Take the time to learn a 50 word vocabulary to include basic courtesies.
19. Learn to use the 24 hour clock and the European way to list a date—both may save you a major blunder [ June 15 is really 15 June or 15/06]. It does make good sense---do we not call it the 15th of June?
20. Here are some TRAVEL TOOLS that you will want to have with you:
• Swiss Army knife with a decent corkscrew.
• Extra batteries for your camera—and/or a dual voltage charger.
• Copies of credit cards and travel documents—including passports.
• Extra reading glasses—I put 3 pairs in different locations.
• Adapter plugs—typically two prongs for round holes
• A flashlight or reading light---rooms are often too dark.
Here are travel tips that may prove helpful. Buon viaggio !
TWENTY TERRIFIC TRAVEL TIPS !!
After enjoying 25 trips to Europe, most of them in the past 25 years, here are some tips that we have found helpful. We hope that you agree:
MONEY:
1. Use your CREDIT CARDS for most major expenses[ hotels, car rentals, Ristorantes ] It will provide the best exchange rate and give you a good record after you get home.
2. There is no reason to get local currency until you arrive in Europe. Use the airport ATM for cash. ATMs are everywhere in Europe and work just like your hometown machine—even in English.
3. Bring 2 credit cards and both should have 4 digit PINS. Be sure to tell your CC companies that you are traveling in Europe—check your limits.
4. Forget TRAVELERS CHECKS—they were obsolete years ago.
5. Keep several 1E & 2E coins easily accessible---very convenient.
PACKING:
6. Pack lite and pack smart ! It is too much luggage that signals a typical novice traveler. Your primary rolling bag should not exceed 24”—check it ! Take a smaller carry-on bag that should contain everything you will need to survive if your primary bag does not arrive for 48 HOURS.
7. Pack a canvas tote bag to hold the extra goodies you will buy in Europe. Also consider bringing a wash cloth, liquid soap, raincoat and a hat for bad hair days. Be sure your knife with corkscrew is in your checked luggage.
8. Do not dress to advertise that you are a tourist, although it will likely be evident. Plan your outfits using basic colors and do not be afraid to wear the same outfit 3 days in a row. Try to dress in layers—shirt, sweater, jacket.
9. If you need to save packing space, wear your bulkiest items on the plane [ sport coat, dress shoes, raincoat, sweater etc.]
SAFETY:
I feel safer in Rome or Munich than I do in Miami or Chicago. However, Americans do get targeted by pick pockets and purse snatchers, especially in crowded areas of major cities. Here are some tips that may help:
10. Keep purses/cameras around your neck—do not lay then down.
11. Wear a money belt for those items you cannot afford to have lost. This includes passports, credit cards, travel documents.
12. Stay alert and vigilant— thieves will use DISTRACTION as their tactic.
13. Always lock your rental car and keep nothing in view you want to keep.
WILD CARD TIP:
The best tip I can give to any novice traveler to Europe is to always smile, be respectful, and never forget you are a guest in their country !
TRAVEL TIPS CONTINUED:
CARS AND TRAINS:
Rental cars in Italy can be expensive due to the high mandatory insurance. However, often a car is the best way to see many parts of BELLA ITALIA.
Rail travel is often less costly but can be quite inconvenient in rural areas.
14. Avoid driving in major cities—it is often a real hassle.
15. When driving on the extensive AUTOSTRDA system, be sure to stay in the right lane except when passing. You will need to pay toll as you exit the system—look for the VIA lane to pay by credit card.
16. You will need a driver, a navigator, and a good map. The road signage is good on the major roads, but do not rely on road numbers on secondary roads—that will frustrate you. Do learn to trust the directional signage.
17. Study your daily maps in advance so you can ANTICIPATE decisions.
TRAVEL TID-BITS:
18. Take the time to learn a 50 word vocabulary to include basic courtesies.
19. Learn to use the 24 hour clock and the European way to list a date—both may save you a major blunder [ June 15 is really 15 June or 15/06]. It does make good sense---do we not call it the 15th of June?
20. Here are some TRAVEL TOOLS that you will want to have with you:
• Swiss Army knife with a decent corkscrew.
• Extra batteries for your camera—and/or a dual voltage charger.
• Copies of credit cards and travel documents—including passports.
• Extra reading glasses—I put 3 pairs in different locations.
• Adapter plugs—typically two prongs for round holes
• A flashlight or reading light---rooms are often too dark.
Aug 12th, 2009, 07:59 PM
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Thank you so much. Only with years of travel can you come up with such a concise yet thourough list. I will consider all of this thank you again.
Have you any experience making a living abroad as a immigrant?
Have you any experience making a living abroad as a immigrant?
Aug 13th, 2009, 05:19 AM
#6
Not many people on this board consider working while traveling (nor would want to work illegally). You are more likely to find that type of traveler on the Lonely Planet Thorntree forums which tends to be younger, more budget oriented travelers. They cater more to backpackers and you will find lots of people that want to bend some rules and can tell you how to do it. Most ex-pats on this website are older, working legally in the country they are living and most will also own property there.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa
Aug 13th, 2009, 05:37 AM
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I doubt anyone here has experience living abroad and working as an immigrant. Most of us are older than you, have traveled a lot, and if we have experience living abroad have done it legally and own property there.
That said, it sounds like an incredible opportunity, and if I were your age I'd jump on the chance. Go for it, but you might want to visit the American Embassy to find out what kind of trouble you might get into and the potential consequences.
That said, it sounds like an incredible opportunity, and if I were your age I'd jump on the chance. Go for it, but you might want to visit the American Embassy to find out what kind of trouble you might get into and the potential consequences.
Aug 13th, 2009, 08:52 AM
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I have plenty of experience living abroad and working as a immigrant, legally and illegally -- and all of my experience is out of date. But I do know somethings:
The American Embassy could care less where you work in other countries, and will have no idea what you will face if you are caught doing it. It's not their problem. From reading your post, doesn't look to me like you have a job. Just an offer to help you find work. Sounds to me like you don't need to work, so might as well go and see what gives.
Sometimes things that look to be good to be true are, so be prepared to move on if need be. But you've got plenty of money to do that.
Hope it all goes well!
The American Embassy could care less where you work in other countries, and will have no idea what you will face if you are caught doing it. It's not their problem. From reading your post, doesn't look to me like you have a job. Just an offer to help you find work. Sounds to me like you don't need to work, so might as well go and see what gives.
Sometimes things that look to be good to be true are, so be prepared to move on if need be. But you've got plenty of money to do that.
Hope it all goes well!
Aug 13th, 2009, 10:24 AM
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Zeppole
I really appreciate the confidence boost. I just broke up with my gf of 4 years and am out of a job here in the states. It's not that I couldn't find/get one, it's that I have been offered what I think to be a golden opportunity.
The people who I am staying with a friendly with all the local authorities and are well off... well off enough to offer me my own (one of their properties) apartment free of r&b.
So I'm booked and ready to go. One more question:
I have a plane ticket dated aug27th - nov 24th. If I do overstay my 90 days and continue to work/live in Italy/Europe... when I travel outside of Italy won't they realize that I've overstayed my visitational 90 days? Any idea what they say/do in a situation like that?
G
I really appreciate the confidence boost. I just broke up with my gf of 4 years and am out of a job here in the states. It's not that I couldn't find/get one, it's that I have been offered what I think to be a golden opportunity.
The people who I am staying with a friendly with all the local authorities and are well off... well off enough to offer me my own (one of their properties) apartment free of r&b.
So I'm booked and ready to go. One more question:
I have a plane ticket dated aug27th - nov 24th. If I do overstay my 90 days and continue to work/live in Italy/Europe... when I travel outside of Italy won't they realize that I've overstayed my visitational 90 days? Any idea what they say/do in a situation like that?
G
Aug 13th, 2009, 10:38 AM
#10
You are a young male (sorry, but you fit a profile these days) and you don't think when your passport is scanned they will know how long you have been out of the US? You might not have trouble overstaying, but you might have trouble next time you want to leave the US.
>>>when I travel outside of Italy won't they realize that I've overstayed my visitational 90 days?<<<
Possibly you won't be allowed back in Italy. All it takes is one cranky person reviewing your documents.
I really think you will find more people on Thorntree that do these things as they are a much younger bunch.
>>>when I travel outside of Italy won't they realize that I've overstayed my visitational 90 days?<<<
Possibly you won't be allowed back in Italy. All it takes is one cranky person reviewing your documents.
I really think you will find more people on Thorntree that do these things as they are a much younger bunch.
Aug 13th, 2009, 10:39 AM
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Who knows if you'll be able to parlay what sounds like a very lovely invitation into anything resembling sustainable employment or a career. I wasn't able to do that the first time I threw myself across the pond, but it was fantastic to live outside the US when I was young, and it will pay off in a million ways, even if you end up returning to the U.S.
If you find a way to work legally in Italy you should get in touch with an immigration lawyer to give you the latest on immigration law in Italy and whether it will be possible to extend your stay.
If you travel outside of Italy once your 90 days is up and have to pass through customs to get back in, you can be denied admittance. You've lost the legal right to be here past 90 days without additional permission from the Italian government.
Most countries don't want to put trespassers on trail and in jail -- it's expensive, and you end up having de facto rights (to laywers, etc). They just want to keep you out, by deporting you or not letting you back in. But these are political decisions. You never know when immigrant-bashing is going to be the political flavor of the week, and when somebody might want to prove they treat border-hopping illegal but affluent Americans just as badly as they treat border-hopping impoverished illegal Africans or Albanians.
I would plan around the idea that you will be going back to the US, but be open to other possibilities!
One last piece of advice: Italians themselves are not always very familiar with immigration law, even local Italian authorities. And the laws and procedures frequently change. You should always ask more than one person, and if in the end, you find yourself really hoping to stay on legally, having a sit down with an English-speaking Italian lawyer who specializes in immigration law is worth what you pay for it.
If you find a way to work legally in Italy you should get in touch with an immigration lawyer to give you the latest on immigration law in Italy and whether it will be possible to extend your stay.
If you travel outside of Italy once your 90 days is up and have to pass through customs to get back in, you can be denied admittance. You've lost the legal right to be here past 90 days without additional permission from the Italian government.
Most countries don't want to put trespassers on trail and in jail -- it's expensive, and you end up having de facto rights (to laywers, etc). They just want to keep you out, by deporting you or not letting you back in. But these are political decisions. You never know when immigrant-bashing is going to be the political flavor of the week, and when somebody might want to prove they treat border-hopping illegal but affluent Americans just as badly as they treat border-hopping impoverished illegal Africans or Albanians.
I would plan around the idea that you will be going back to the US, but be open to other possibilities!
One last piece of advice: Italians themselves are not always very familiar with immigration law, even local Italian authorities. And the laws and procedures frequently change. You should always ask more than one person, and if in the end, you find yourself really hoping to stay on legally, having a sit down with an English-speaking Italian lawyer who specializes in immigration law is worth what you pay for it.
Aug 13th, 2009, 11:17 AM
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Sorry -- I meant to type that if you need to pass through passport control (not customs) during your European stay, you can be denied re-admittance to Italy (and admittance to many other EU countries) if you have been in Italy (and/or other EU countries) for 90 days already.
Aug 13th, 2009, 11:33 AM
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I have worked recently in Italy as a teacher legally...it is not impossible to do it otherwise, but don't get sick, have any kind of accident, rent a vehicle or get into any trouble with the local authorities. Can you guarantee that you won't get hit by a moped?
Yes, the passport authorities know if you enter and exit how long you have been gone. I was inevitably asked at those times to show my 'permesso', a municipality-generated document that shows you are a resident of ____ town or village, legally. I honestly have no idea what happens if you are not able to produce this document.To get a permesso you must show proof of employment and proof of health insurance coverage.
See a lawyer.
Yes, the passport authorities know if you enter and exit how long you have been gone. I was inevitably asked at those times to show my 'permesso', a municipality-generated document that shows you are a resident of ____ town or village, legally. I honestly have no idea what happens if you are not able to produce this document.To get a permesso you must show proof of employment and proof of health insurance coverage.
See a lawyer.
Aug 13th, 2009, 11:38 AM
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adventuresome,
The basic information about staying longer than 90 days in Italy or working is online, and you can get it through google searches. But LJ is right about seeing a lawyer, once you get yourself minimally informed.
The basic information about staying longer than 90 days in Italy or working is online, and you can get it through google searches. But LJ is right about seeing a lawyer, once you get yourself minimally informed.
Aug 13th, 2009, 11:42 AM
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Although I have to say that I am puzzled by LJ's worries that you'll get hit by a moped. If you are in Italy legally and have an accident, you will be treated at no cost to you, just as any tourist would be.
Also, your friends will be able to register you with the police as their guest, and you should be able to get documents to show that you have registered with the local police. However, that does not allow you to stay beyond 90 days. You can only get permission to do that from Rome.
As I said, most people don't understand these laws, imagine you need to talk to the American Embassy, etc etc. So you can't rely on the internet for ultimate answers, or backpackers you meet. If it is important to you to be able to stay in Italy past 90 days, you need to talk to an English-speaking lawyer who specializes in Italian immigration law.
Also, your friends will be able to register you with the police as their guest, and you should be able to get documents to show that you have registered with the local police. However, that does not allow you to stay beyond 90 days. You can only get permission to do that from Rome.
As I said, most people don't understand these laws, imagine you need to talk to the American Embassy, etc etc. So you can't rely on the internet for ultimate answers, or backpackers you meet. If it is important to you to be able to stay in Italy past 90 days, you need to talk to an English-speaking lawyer who specializes in Italian immigration law.
Aug 13th, 2009, 12:26 PM
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zeppole: my comments were with regard to where ad...greg seems to be heading (a semi-legal situation, which is like being half-pregnant). They are based on my experience of living and working in Italy legally. The school I taught at also had experience with folks that walked a fine line of immigration-grey. It was the school (the employer) that caught the flak when the semi-legal employees got into hot water whihc they did from time-to-time. I am sure that ad...greg's does not wish to get his nice family into trouble.
Yes, it is true that health care is free in Italy, but records of your name and address are made and scrutinized by local authorities. That is when the problems start. Hence the need for proof of 'permesso' status when entering and exiting Italy-thus screwing up the 90-180 day balance.
I was not suggesting I know how to achieve what ad...greg wants, just relaying my own experience: I really would see a lawyer in his situation.
Yes, it is true that health care is free in Italy, but records of your name and address are made and scrutinized by local authorities. That is when the problems start. Hence the need for proof of 'permesso' status when entering and exiting Italy-thus screwing up the 90-180 day balance.
I was not suggesting I know how to achieve what ad...greg wants, just relaying my own experience: I really would see a lawyer in his situation.
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:00 PM
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LJ, we certainly agree about the need for expert advice.
But just to clarify a few things:
Health care is not free in Italy, but if you come into Italy with an American passport and stay for 90 days, should you unfortunately need emergency medical care during that time, the Italian system will provide it to you, most likely utterly free of charge or for a very nominal charge.
If you are here as a tourists and work, you complicate your situation legally -- you've broken the law -- but you will still get emergency medical care (as is true in the US, actually).
I do not know if health authorities in Italy give medical records to immigration authorities. I would be surprised if they do, but I don't know. (American medical officials have resisted doing so.)
If you check into a hotel in Italy, the hotel staff will make a photocopy of your passport for the local police so that you have "permission" to be a temporary resident of the town. When you stay with a private family who knows the local authorities, it can SOMETIMES be less formal, but were I the guest of an Italian family, I would ask them to help make sure I was kosher with the local authorities on that score, and if they waved away my concerns, I would amble to the local police station myself and make sure it was OK.
But just to clarify a few things:
Health care is not free in Italy, but if you come into Italy with an American passport and stay for 90 days, should you unfortunately need emergency medical care during that time, the Italian system will provide it to you, most likely utterly free of charge or for a very nominal charge.
If you are here as a tourists and work, you complicate your situation legally -- you've broken the law -- but you will still get emergency medical care (as is true in the US, actually).
I do not know if health authorities in Italy give medical records to immigration authorities. I would be surprised if they do, but I don't know. (American medical officials have resisted doing so.)
If you check into a hotel in Italy, the hotel staff will make a photocopy of your passport for the local police so that you have "permission" to be a temporary resident of the town. When you stay with a private family who knows the local authorities, it can SOMETIMES be less formal, but were I the guest of an Italian family, I would ask them to help make sure I was kosher with the local authorities on that score, and if they waved away my concerns, I would amble to the local police station myself and make sure it was OK.
Aug 13th, 2009, 01:10 PM
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Zeppole: can't comment on your experience. I am not an American...maybe different agreements with different countries? All the students who attend our school from whatever country (about 11 different nations) must have proof of health insurance to cover the entire school term (in excess of 180 days) or they are not permitted to attend and this is, in part (there are other reasons) because the local authorities would not grant a 'permesso'.
Don't want to beat a dead thread...just strongly suggest for ad...greg a chat with a lawyer who knows the situation.
Don't want to beat a dead thread...just strongly suggest for ad...greg a chat with a lawyer who knows the situation.
