rainbow007

My husband and I are planning a trip to visit Switzerland and Italy in June - help and guidance is appreciated! We are thinking of flying into Zurich (from U.S.) and staying in Lucerne for 3 nights, then taking a scenic train to Lugano, and staying there for 3 nights, then traveling to the Cinque Terre and staying there 4 nights. (Then we will visit with relatives, and then travel home.)

The Switzerland part of the trip is what we're not sure of. (Years ago, we went to Zurich/Bern/Geneva, so we weren't planning to revisit those places; we had driven through Lucerne and Lugano and thought we would want to stay there sometime.) We'd like to relax and also explore a bit - we like walking but aren't serious hikers. Does splitting our time between Lucerne and Lugano sound like a good idea? I've read about the Berner Oberland area - should we consider changing our itinerary to stay in Lucern 2 nights, Gimmelwald (or other town) 2 nights, then Lugano 2 nights instead. Or are there other places we should consider? We welcome suggestions about the itinerary and things to do or see!

kja

IMO, Lucerne and Lugano would make a nice pairing. I also enjoy walks, more than hikes; from Lugano you might consider walking from Monte San Salvatore to Mercote (long, but almost all downhill), the Sentiero dell’Olivo, or -- a bit further afield -- the Valle Verzasca.

The Michelin Green Guide and Rough Guide cover these parts of Switzerland well, IMO.

I'm sure you already know that the Cinque Terre can get quite crowded in June, and that some of the trails are (I think) still closed from damage caused by storms a few years ago.

Enjoy!

swandav2000

Hi rainbow007,

I agree with kja above -- I think your plans are good the way the are . . . well, with maybe a small tweak.

I see that you spent your last trip to Switzerland in the cities, and it looks like you're doing the same thing now. How about spending your Swiss time in a smaller town or village on Lake Lucerne? That way, the beautiful countryside is a little closer to hand for walks and for soaking up the gorgeousness. So, I would suggest maybe investigating the villages of Weggis or Vitznau or the town of Brunnen. All are directly on the lake, and you can find a lakeside hotel for about 100 chf cheaper (per night) than you can in Luzern.

You can still spend your days ascending the mountain peaks (Rigi, Titlis, Pilatus) and hopping around the lake by ferry.

I would definitely, definitely NOT break up the stay with 2-night visits -- that's just not enough time to unpack, lol! That would only give you one full day in each of your destinations.

The Berner Oberland does get a lot of hype from English-language guides and travellers, and so a lot of English-speaking folks end up there. And it is beautiful, absolutely, as most of Switzerland is. But I've heard more than one Swiss person say that the Jungfrau region doesn't have the best mountains, just the best PR. (Imo, the Jungfrau area has the best infrastructure for visitors -- hotels and restaurants at every price level and lots of helpful folks who speak English. But if that isn't important to you, there's no reason to skew your visit to include that area.)

Have fun as you plan!

s

sandralist

Since you have relatives in le Cinque Terre, presumably they can show you the tricks of avoiding the crowds. I would be more concerned about working up a strategy for avoiding crowds in Lucerne if you don't like crowded places, or picking a different spot for a 3 night stay:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...erne-again.cfm

rainbow007

Thanks for this advice! We'll stick with 3 days in each place - sounds much easier. Also, appreciate the information about Lucern. Reading those posts on the Lucern thread reminds me of how I felt about Oahu and Maui - spent time there in 1981 and was shocked at the crowds, etc. when we returned a decade or so later. I'll look into those other villages, Swandav. If there are any other villages or particular places to stay that would be good to consider, please let me know.

Re: tips and tricks for Cinque Terre, those are welcome, too. My husband speaks Italian, so that makes thing a little easier for us, but his relatives don't know the area. We were there for a brief visit once before, and stayed in Monterosso at Hotel Villa Steno, which we liked. Any suggestions for our 4 days there are welcome, too - thanks!

nytraveler

Be aware that this year the authorities are going to reduce the number of people in the CT (from 2.5 to 1.5 million) to prevent further damage to this historic area. Entry will be by tickets only - bought in advance. So, you might want to pick another spot - with easier access and not SUCH mobs.

neckervd

I suppose you know that you can reach Lugano from Lucerne in some 3 hrs by train through the Gotthard tunnel (trains every hr).
If you are a bit more adventurous, you may also consider a steamboat leg (from Lucerne up to Fluelen railway station)or a Postbus ride OVER the Alps like Goeschenen railway station - Andermatt - Gotthard Pass - Airolo or Lucerne - cog wheel mountain railway - Meiringen - SwissPostbus - Grimsel Pass - Nufenen Pass - Airolo.

PalenQ

But I've heard more than one Swiss person say that the Jungfrau region doesn't have the best mountains, just the best PR. (Imo, the Jungfrau area has the best infrastructure for visitors -- hotels and restaurants at every price level and lots of helpful folks who speak English. But if that isn't important to you, there's no reason to skew your visit to include that area.)>

I will strongly disagree with this - to me and many non-jaded locals the Jungfrau Region is the best possible place to go in Switzerland to see the awesome high Alps - glacier-girdled peaks soar thousands of feet above lush meadows - toylike train and thrilling aerial gondolas go off in all directions - hiking paths for all energies - no special shoes needed on many.

Gimmelwald is not a town but a small hamlet with a few accommodations and a hostel but it so remote (and boring after a few hours for many) - I would stay in Grindelwald or Wengen - which to me have the best views and best access to transportation and no cars are allowed above Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen so you have to take the train. 3 days here would be heaven with so so many varied things to see and do.

I have been to all the famous Swiss Alpine resorts and though some like Zermatt have equally rugged alps to climb by gondola nothing is as varied as the Jungfrau Region - so many things in a varied area - including lovely boat rides on the two lakes bookending Interlaken.

Lucerne and its lake is lovely - Lugano where I've stayed a few times leaves me rather blah but excursions on the lake are neat - but Lake Lucerne is IMO much nicer.

I'd put the Jungfrau Region at the very top of your list - again one reason because it makes it so easy for the traveler to get anywhere and the views IMO are unparalleled anywhere.

2 days Lucerne - including boat trip around the lake

3 days Grindelwald or Wengen

1 day LUgano

I'd do the Jungfrau Region first, head to Lucerne via the scenic Brunig Pass rail route (part of the famous Golden Pass scenic train route) and then from Lucerne take the scenic Gotthard Tunnel route to Lugano (can take the special William Tell Special, including a boat trip on Lake Lucerne and a scenic train ride on the Gotthard Line.

For lots on Swiss trains check www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. A Swiss Pass will be good if you do six days in Switzerland in three different places and is very useful in the Jungfrau Region, covering train fares in full to Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen and Wengen as well as giving 50% off on most gondolas and trains to mountain tops.

I adamantly say the Jungfrau Region is the best and easiest place for the average traveler to go to experience the awesome Swiss Alps at their finest:

https://www.google.com/search?q=jung...w=1920&bih=955

PalenQ

One area that does exude awesomeness in its Alpine regions that could be a novel way to Italy would be the Engadine in the far southwest of the country - could take a train there from Lucerne to Goppenstein and take a shuttle train up to Andermatt, on the Glacier Express route to St Moritz.

Stay there or in Pontresina or other base on a rail or bus line then to go to Italy take what to me is Europe's most gorgeous scenic railway the Bernina Pass railway which climbs up and over the Bernina Pass (being one of the few if not only north-south rail crossings of the Alps to go up and over and not burrow under the tallest Alps)- at the summit you can see glaciers and easily get off and walk to one but the whole ride from Andermatt to St Moritz to Tirano, Italy is oh oh so so gorgeous.

this route from Tirano trains take you to Milan or Lake Como, which the rail line skirts - get off at Varenna-Esino to cath boats to Bellagio. To leave take a boat to Como, on the main rail line to Milan Centrale or go back to Varenna and get trains to Milan from there.

The Bernina Express is an official sightseeing train that runs over the Bernina Pass though local trains you just hop on do the same:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bern...HUxkC_4QsAQIGw

Between Andermatt and St Moritz the train is also dramatically scenic as it spirals up the Albula Pass route - a UNESCO feat of railway engineering considering when it was built- around 1900:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...railway+images

Again check www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com for lots on the Bernina Pass Railway. For the official BEx you must bookway in advance as it often fills with tour groups - local trains are rarely very crowded IME.

rainbow007

Thank you for the information and ideas! We had thought Lucern might be a good starting point because it is easy to get to from Zurich. (Looks like a direct 1 hour train ride.) One question I have is how concerned should we be (or how difficult would it be) for us to fly into Zurich (9-hour flight) and then get to places like Wengen or St. Moritz? We haven't ever taken trains in Switzerland, and it looks like some of these places require a few connections. (Would hate to miss a train and have a very long journey before being able to get a good night's rest.) Is this something we should consider, or have others found it to be no problem to have a long flight and then 2 or 3 hour train trip?

simpsonc510

I agree with your original plan. Lucerne is easy to reach by train from Zurich.

kja

OK, first and foremost, Swiss trains are extremely easy to use and extremely reliable. I wouldn't worry about connections unless you have a mobility issue or a TON of luggage, and if either of those is true, you can always plan a route that gives you a bit more time at any transfer point. Here’s the main website.
http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html
Play around with it a bit; you should find that there is a wealth of information at your disposal. Also note that you have luggage forwarding options, next day or -- depending on your timing and the specific cities, and (of course) for a higher fee -- same day.

As already noted, I thought your idea of pairing Lucerne with Lugano quite nice. Much as I loved the Bernese Oberland, I don’t think it gives the same opportunity to see how diverse Switzerland is as pairing with Lugano. Lucerne and the Bernese Oberland are both German-speaking, and while the scenery in each is spectacular, I thought the mountains more similar than the mountains of either are to the mountains around Lugano. And Lugano, of course, is quite different culturally, with it’s much more Italian-influenced heritage. JMO, and I readily admit that I’m no expert.

Some things to consider: If your primary goal is to experience magnificent alpine scenery, Lugano might not be your best choice. If you want a combination of stunning alpine scenery and glorious lakes and an art museum or two, or if you want to see some of the ways in which parts of Switzerland differ from each other, or if you want to experience the diversity of Swiss cuisines, combining two distinct areas might be a better choice.

I also loved the Engadine (the area around St. Moritz and Pontresina), but I was glad to have 6 days in that area. I’m not sure I’d try to go there with only 2 or 3 days – it’s far enough, IMO, to justify waiting until you can see both the Upper and Lower Engadine, a bit of the Val Bregaglia, maybe Müstair….

So you have a lot of options, including swandav’s idea of staying in one of the smaller towns outside of Lucerne.

And if you decide to go from Lucerne to Lugano, I like neckervd’s suggestion of a route.


On a separate note, if you do decide to head to the Cinque Terre on this trip (note nytraveler’s warning abou the change in access!), you might consider staying at La Torretta in Manarola --
http://www.torrettas.com

And you might consider shifting one night from the Cinque Terre to Switzerland, whichever region(s) you end up selecting. Just a thought!


Hope that helps!

swandav2000

Pal, you and I have gone over and over this again. Your note that

". . . nothing is as varied as the Jungfrau Region - so many things in a varied area - including lovely boat rides on the two lakes bookending Interlaken . . ."

really isn't accurate. There are many mountainous regions in Switzerland with just as many different things to do, from hiking to biking to gondola rides to lake ferries. We have argued this in depth before, and I really don't want to begin on that again. I do know how much you love the Jungfrau region, and I'm glad that you mentioned the Engadin (which I adore). But please stick to your opinion and don't present some things as fact.

s

sandralist

Trips and tricks for avoiding crowds in le Cinque Terre:

If you are not keen hikers, consider spending your days visiting towns away from le Cinque Terre, and returning later in the day for cocktails and dinner. Some very interesting towns you can reach by train are Chiavari (nice morning market and good place for other shopping and lunch at Luchin), Sestri Levante (nicest place to swim) and the town of Levanto has a pretty church. You can walk between Levanto and Bonassola, it if you enjoy a bit of hiking, you will find fewer people there.

A bus ride will get you to the town of Sarzana, which was built in the same ellipitcal configuration as the town of Lucca. It has its own cuisine and culture just slightly different from the Ligurian coastal towns. You can find some small museums of special interest in La Spezia, and also a major market and good food.

If you have a car you can consider visting the Carrara marble quarries or lunch in Bocca di Magra, or Pontremoli if you want to escape crowds of foreign tourists. With a car it can be rather fascinating to just go exploring in the mountains, where the scenery and super-sleepy villages are quite pretty. It's a miracle they still exist as they have for centuries.

If you do like to hike it can worthwhile to research the myriad trails inside le Cinque Terre or around Portovenere/Lerici that get very few tourists. There are lots of websites you can find on google or just ask on the Tripadvisor forum for le Cinque Terre. (Sorry -- I'm not a hiker.)

sandralist

I forgot to mention Luni, the archeological site which is not far from Sarzana, and the lovely hilltown above it (Ortonovo). Luni is the only important sight of Roman antiquity in the area, and if you especially enjoy that history, it is a treat. Right nearby too is Castelnuovo Magra, a more substantial hilltown with important artworks. The area is riddled with good restaurants, and it is easy to see Luni and Ortonovo in the morning, have lunch or head for lunch in Castelnuovo Magra, and then visit Sarzana and have some tea and cake before you leave. Of course this takes a car -- and if you don't have one, then the trains and boat rides along the coast can give you variety and a break from the cruiseship daytrip crowds in the 5 villages.

rainbow007

Thanks, everyone. After looking at all of your ideas for places to go and times/distances, we think we'll stick with Lucerne and Lugano, and save other parts of Switzerland for another trip. For a scenic trip from Lucerne to Lugano, do you recommend the William Tell (boat & train or just train?) or the Bernina Express from Chur or St. Moritz (seems like it would be a long trip to get from Lucerne to Chur or St. Moritz, then to Lugano- or is there a better route)?

Thanks for all of the information about the Cinque Terre area, too. Sandralist, thanks for the detailed suggestions - will be looking up all of those places. The limit of 1.5 million this applies to Cinque Terre park passes, right (not access to the towns)?

Yes, planning is fun - thanks again

sandralist

As far as I know, the plans to limit the number of visitors to trails or anywhere in le Cinque Terre are in the proposal stage, which means they may not be implemented. The proposals attracted opposition within Italy. You might ask your relatives to keep track of the news regarding this.

neckervd

"seems like it would be a long trip to get from Lucerne to Chur or St. Moritz"
You are right, but you can take scenic small trains through the Alps, like
Lucerne dp 8.18 - Andermatt - Reichenau - St. Moritz ar 15.03 (Glacier Expr4ess itinerary)
The direct train ride via Zurich lasts 4 hrs, longer if you do some legs by Lake Zurich boats.

PalenQ

Anything in Italy takes years to become final - to wit the barrier device that promises to save Venice from a devastating flood - took years of 'planning' and 're-planning', etc.

More likely IMO they will make the trails better - like a divided highway - two trails one one way and the other the other!

rainbow007

Thanks - think we will go with 3 nights in Lucerne and 3 nights in Lugano, then onto the Cinque Terre/Italian Riveria area. I spent a little more time looking at train schedules to get us from Lucerne to Lugano, and it looks like the only way the Bernina Express would make sense is if we spent a night in Chur or St. Moritz. Is this right, and should we plan on a more direct route from Lucerne to Lugano? (I appreciate all of the links and info. everyone has provided already, but I'm still not feeling sure about my understanding of geography and train schedules ;-))