Italian Etiquette? do's and dont's
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:03 AM
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Italian Etiquette? do's and dont's
Being raised in an old southern family, I have been taught th old southern manners. Any tips for do's and don'ts in Italy? Any Major differences in table manners and other day-to-day etiquette? Things not to say?
anything helps! thank you!
anything helps! thank you!
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:27 AM
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This isn't really etiquette, but it's an Italian way of doing things that caught me off-guard.
When you're buying something at a stand-up counter (like a deli in a train station), you pay the cashier first, before you get your food.
I found that really odd. And it makes it difficult for those of us who don't speak Italian.
You do not go to the counter and order your food (like I tried to do!), then walk to the cashier so she/he can see what you're buying and charge you for it, like we're used to doing in the States.
Instead, you go to the cashier and tell them what you want, pay for it, then go back to the counter with your receipt to get your food.
It's a very cumbersome process when you can't speak Italian, because you can't point at the food you want when you pay for it. And menus aren't printed at the counter or on the wall, to show the cashier what you're ordering. It also makes it difficult to ask at the counter about the different offerings on the menu.
When you're buying something at a stand-up counter (like a deli in a train station), you pay the cashier first, before you get your food.
I found that really odd. And it makes it difficult for those of us who don't speak Italian.
You do not go to the counter and order your food (like I tried to do!), then walk to the cashier so she/he can see what you're buying and charge you for it, like we're used to doing in the States.
Instead, you go to the cashier and tell them what you want, pay for it, then go back to the counter with your receipt to get your food.
It's a very cumbersome process when you can't speak Italian, because you can't point at the food you want when you pay for it. And menus aren't printed at the counter or on the wall, to show the cashier what you're ordering. It also makes it difficult to ask at the counter about the different offerings on the menu.
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:32 AM
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But you can go scope out things at the counter and ask about them before you make your decision and then go pay.
This method is used for sanitary purposes--the person who handles your food never touches money.
If you were a regular at this type of place, chances are you could just order at the counter and pay after you had finished--more at a honor system for regulars.
This method is used for sanitary purposes--the person who handles your food never touches money.
If you were a regular at this type of place, chances are you could just order at the counter and pay after you had finished--more at a honor system for regulars.
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:33 AM
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You could point to the food and ask the person at the counter to write down what it is. This works as long as the place isn't very busy with lunch time crowds and it's helpful to supply paper and pen.
It is sometimes difficult to know the procedure. I had a bit of a problem in Paris at Gerard Mulot before I understood what was supposed to happen. You order, the person writes up a ticket, you pay the cashier (who is also dispensing other goods), and then go back to the same person you dealt with originally. Don't try to ask a different person to find your order.
It is sometimes difficult to know the procedure. I had a bit of a problem in Paris at Gerard Mulot before I understood what was supposed to happen. You order, the person writes up a ticket, you pay the cashier (who is also dispensing other goods), and then go back to the same person you dealt with originally. Don't try to ask a different person to find your order.
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:40 AM
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Italians rarely eat with their hands. They almost always use utensils. Pizza is eaten with a knife and fork.
Italians rarely eat walking down the street. In gelato season, it's acceptable to walk down the street eating gelato -- although someone well dressed, mindful of their appearance, probably would not.
Italians believe the elderly are owed a special consideration, and act accordingly. If an elderly person asks for your arm crossing the street, you are expected to help. Rolling your eyes or trying to step ahead of a slow-moving elderly person in a shop or using public transportation is to display extremely bad manners.
Italians believe drinking to the point of drunkeness is embarassing for everybody. Their pre-dinner cocktails are usually extremely light in alcohol content. Areas where grappa is drunk after a meal is one of the few places you'll see Italians tipsy in public late at night.
It is not considered to be bad manners for a man of any age to treat a woman as sexually interesting.
Although there are laws that no forbid smoking in most indoor places, Italians do no consider it rude to smoke in public areas, and will only rarely respond agreeably to requests they stop smoking near you.
You are not supposed to serve yourself in stores or pick up items to examine them, feel them, shake them, etc. You ask someone for help. Most Italian shops have beautiful window displays of all the goods they sale, knowing people like to window shop. Once you step inside, it's assumed you want to buy something. If you simply want to window shop further, indicate that.
Honking a horn while driving is for emergencies only, not to push others around or express frustration. (Shout, if you must!)
Saying "good day," "good evening" (beginning in late afternoon) and "excuse me" and "please" are common courtesies, expected. So are "thank you" and "goodbye".
If you make any effort at all to speak Italian, or apologize for your lack of it, Italians will be incredibly generous and helpful.
Even if you behave awfully, Italians are likely to be nice to you, and want to get to know where you're from and whether you are enjoying your visit.
Italians rarely eat walking down the street. In gelato season, it's acceptable to walk down the street eating gelato -- although someone well dressed, mindful of their appearance, probably would not.
Italians believe the elderly are owed a special consideration, and act accordingly. If an elderly person asks for your arm crossing the street, you are expected to help. Rolling your eyes or trying to step ahead of a slow-moving elderly person in a shop or using public transportation is to display extremely bad manners.
Italians believe drinking to the point of drunkeness is embarassing for everybody. Their pre-dinner cocktails are usually extremely light in alcohol content. Areas where grappa is drunk after a meal is one of the few places you'll see Italians tipsy in public late at night.
It is not considered to be bad manners for a man of any age to treat a woman as sexually interesting.
Although there are laws that no forbid smoking in most indoor places, Italians do no consider it rude to smoke in public areas, and will only rarely respond agreeably to requests they stop smoking near you.
You are not supposed to serve yourself in stores or pick up items to examine them, feel them, shake them, etc. You ask someone for help. Most Italian shops have beautiful window displays of all the goods they sale, knowing people like to window shop. Once you step inside, it's assumed you want to buy something. If you simply want to window shop further, indicate that.
Honking a horn while driving is for emergencies only, not to push others around or express frustration. (Shout, if you must!)
Saying "good day," "good evening" (beginning in late afternoon) and "excuse me" and "please" are common courtesies, expected. So are "thank you" and "goodbye".
If you make any effort at all to speak Italian, or apologize for your lack of it, Italians will be incredibly generous and helpful.
Even if you behave awfully, Italians are likely to be nice to you, and want to get to know where you're from and whether you are enjoying your visit.
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:42 AM
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Oh -- and peaceout's post reminds me:
It is a tax law that you must have a receipt if you purchase anything, and carry it with you for something like 60 meters beyond the store. It is how the tax police enforce taxes on shopkeepers.
It is a tax law that you must have a receipt if you purchase anything, and carry it with you for something like 60 meters beyond the store. It is how the tax police enforce taxes on shopkeepers.
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:45 AM
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I can just imagine the look on the counter guy's face if I had asked him to write down descriptions of food items. I don't think so! I couldn't read the Italian, anyway.
Very good point about eating while walking on the streets and sidewalks. Do not do it.
Very good point about eating while walking on the streets and sidewalks. Do not do it.
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:49 AM
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Breakfast is not a big deal in Italy. It's common to have just a cup of espresso or two and a pastry (I think it's called a "cornetto"
. Lunch is often the main meal of the day, and it can easily take a few hours. So can dinner.Some tips I've learned over the years:
Always ask for help in stores. DO NOT touch the merchandise, and especially DO NOT touch the fruits or vegetables. I learned this the hard way when I started bagging my own stuff at a tiny store in Sorrento many years ago.
Also don't ask for your salad to be served with your main course. Italians take their time with meals ( two-three hours is pretty standard, except for breakfast! ) and courses are served in a particular order.
Don't be surprised to find an extra charge on your bill for bread. This is a common ( and unfortunate) practice in many restaurants.
On another note, people often cut the line in Italy. You may be first at the airport or the post office, or wherever else you're patiently waiting, but this is a common practice, so don't even bother being aggravated by it.
Things not to say? I wouldn't discuss religion or politics unless you know the person you're speaking to very well, and even then...!
Jul 9th, 2008, 09:56 AM
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Also in Italy don't ask for a doggy bag or takeout box, it just isn't done. If you order pizza, you're expected to eat the entire thing there, or take an entire pizza away in a box for consuming later. Asking to take home your leftovers is not typically done by Italians. First, the chef will wonder why you didn't eat the entire meal? Was it displeasing?
Italians are very serious about their food and if you don't eat it all they truly do have some questions! My aunt in Ascoli fed my husband a huge bowl of pasta with peas and prosciutto, he left over one singular, solitary pea, un pisello, and she exclaimed, "non ti piaciano i piselli?????" You don't like peas? He promptly explained that he must not have seen it, promptly stuck it in his mouth, and there was much rejoicing.
Similar situations have happened to us in restaurants. We had a really funny experience, one of our friend's uncles from a very tiny town in Tuscany, not even on the map, took us out for a huge dinner. It wasn't a very classy place, but not a trattoria either. They ordered no less than 6 courses, primi and secondi, and everything in between. After all of that, I swear after that a huge platter came out with a gigantic Florentine bloody steak in the middle entirely surrounded by short ribs. We thought we were going to die. So obviously no one ate very much and at the end of the meal it seemed unconscionable to leave it over, so we asked to take it to go. With visible horror our host looked at the waiter and said in Italian "Sai com'e', sono giovanni..studenti poveri" Basically, "they're young people, you know they're poor students". (the joke was we weren't students but it sounded plausible). We laughed really hard, mostly because we had too much to drink, but we still took home the steak and ribs to the dismay of everyone involved. They were yummy the next day!
So that's my long winded tip. You can ask for take out box, but you will be:
a) talked about
b) stared at
c) laughed at
d) all of the above
PS* Also, you can order cappucino after 11am, and they will give it to you, but Italians usually consider that a morning drink and don't consume that in the afternoon. And you will never see an Italian walking down the street with a cup of coffee. It's espresso or espresso machiato in the afternoon and evening, consumed with purpose, quick and usually without lingering, right at the counter at a bar (coffee shop) or after your meal at lunch or dinner. No big starbucks drinks there thankfully, just the real deal, not like in Paris thankfully!
I love Italy...
Italians are very serious about their food and if you don't eat it all they truly do have some questions! My aunt in Ascoli fed my husband a huge bowl of pasta with peas and prosciutto, he left over one singular, solitary pea, un pisello, and she exclaimed, "non ti piaciano i piselli?????" You don't like peas? He promptly explained that he must not have seen it, promptly stuck it in his mouth, and there was much rejoicing.
Similar situations have happened to us in restaurants. We had a really funny experience, one of our friend's uncles from a very tiny town in Tuscany, not even on the map, took us out for a huge dinner. It wasn't a very classy place, but not a trattoria either. They ordered no less than 6 courses, primi and secondi, and everything in between. After all of that, I swear after that a huge platter came out with a gigantic Florentine bloody steak in the middle entirely surrounded by short ribs. We thought we were going to die. So obviously no one ate very much and at the end of the meal it seemed unconscionable to leave it over, so we asked to take it to go. With visible horror our host looked at the waiter and said in Italian "Sai com'e', sono giovanni..studenti poveri" Basically, "they're young people, you know they're poor students". (the joke was we weren't students but it sounded plausible). We laughed really hard, mostly because we had too much to drink, but we still took home the steak and ribs to the dismay of everyone involved. They were yummy the next day!
So that's my long winded tip. You can ask for take out box, but you will be:
a) talked about
b) stared at
c) laughed at
d) all of the above
PS* Also, you can order cappucino after 11am, and they will give it to you, but Italians usually consider that a morning drink and don't consume that in the afternoon. And you will never see an Italian walking down the street with a cup of coffee. It's espresso or espresso machiato in the afternoon and evening, consumed with purpose, quick and usually without lingering, right at the counter at a bar (coffee shop) or after your meal at lunch or dinner. No big starbucks drinks there thankfully, just the real deal, not like in Paris thankfully!
I love Italy...
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:06 AM
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>>Things not to say? I wouldn't discuss religion or politics unless you know the person you're speaking to very well, and even then...!
<<
We were in Italy both when Bush was re-elected and when we invaded Iraq, OMG we could not even buy a gelato without someone behind the counter asking us what we thought about it all. Shopkeepers, waiter, hotel staff, people we met on the street, once they found out we were American they had to ask. It was actually kind of funny because we gave really vague or confusing answers that usually pacified them. Then we just started telling people we were Canadian LOL!
<<
We were in Italy both when Bush was re-elected and when we invaded Iraq, OMG we could not even buy a gelato without someone behind the counter asking us what we thought about it all. Shopkeepers, waiter, hotel staff, people we met on the street, once they found out we were American they had to ask. It was actually kind of funny because we gave really vague or confusing answers that usually pacified them. Then we just started telling people we were Canadian LOL!
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:07 AM
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Not exactly etiquette, just observations about diffenences in everyday transactions:
Cashiers will often place your change in a little dish (sometimes built into the register) rather than in your hand.
In some places they hate to give change at all and will ask you for a smaller note (something about the major hassles shopkeepers have in dealing with banks, I think I've been told). At your first ATM be sure to withdraw an amount that is not a multiple of 50 -- get 230 or 280 so that you will have at least one or two smaller notes.
Cashiers will often place your change in a little dish (sometimes built into the register) rather than in your hand.
In some places they hate to give change at all and will ask you for a smaller note (something about the major hassles shopkeepers have in dealing with banks, I think I've been told). At your first ATM be sure to withdraw an amount that is not a multiple of 50 -- get 230 or 280 so that you will have at least one or two smaller notes.
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:17 AM
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Something not mentioned yet, be prepared to eat very late dinners and don't skip lunch. You will be lucky to find a place for dinner open before at least 7:30.
I crammed on Italian before I went. Everywhere I went I would say something along the lines of, "excuse me, can you tell me where ____ is?" The response was a solid minute of praise for my beautiful l'Italiano. I think everywhere appreciates an effort to learn some language. Italians seem to appreciate it a lot more than most.
I crammed on Italian before I went. Everywhere I went I would say something along the lines of, "excuse me, can you tell me where ____ is?" The response was a solid minute of praise for my beautiful l'Italiano. I think everywhere appreciates an effort to learn some language. Italians seem to appreciate it a lot more than most.
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:22 AM
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I agree that Italians will be more than happy to discuss politics with you. Especially American presidential politics. For the past six months, everytime I was overheard in a restaurant talking about the Democracic primary in English, I very quickly attracted the interest of Italian patrons and the waiters, all of whom wanted to know whether I thought Hilary or Obama would win. (Obama is almost as big a George Clooney in Italy!)
They are less apt to be interested in discussing Italian politics, simply because the general belief is that all Italian politicians, big and small, are crooks who are out to screw the people -- a not unreasonable point of view -- so there isn't much to discuss.
Also it's true that Italians have a MANIA for exact change. Even in supermarkets. If you want to be popular with Italian shopkeepers, give them the exact amount, right down to the last centissimo.
And yes, Italians love to shake hands, but not touch your hands giving you money.
Likewise, they will cringe to see you drink orange juice in the morning followed by coffee -- ugh, troppo aceto! -- but they will eat a fat slice of fresh pineaapple with gusto after dinner, immediately followed by an espresso. Mmmmm, delicioso!
They are less apt to be interested in discussing Italian politics, simply because the general belief is that all Italian politicians, big and small, are crooks who are out to screw the people -- a not unreasonable point of view -- so there isn't much to discuss.
Also it's true that Italians have a MANIA for exact change. Even in supermarkets. If you want to be popular with Italian shopkeepers, give them the exact amount, right down to the last centissimo.
And yes, Italians love to shake hands, but not touch your hands giving you money.
Likewise, they will cringe to see you drink orange juice in the morning followed by coffee -- ugh, troppo aceto! -- but they will eat a fat slice of fresh pineaapple with gusto after dinner, immediately followed by an espresso. Mmmmm, delicioso!
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:25 AM
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"You will be lucky to find a place for dinner open before at least 7:30."
And if you do find one, you will sit there, unfed, until the dinner hour, which is after eight.
I have also experienced going into a restaurant (at an appropriate hour) and deciding against eating an antipasto, and ordering just a pasta and a secondi instead.
I usually end up waiting the time it would have taken to prepare and eat my antipasto before I see my pasta put in front of me.
And if you do find one, you will sit there, unfed, until the dinner hour, which is after eight.
I have also experienced going into a restaurant (at an appropriate hour) and deciding against eating an antipasto, and ordering just a pasta and a secondi instead.
I usually end up waiting the time it would have taken to prepare and eat my antipasto before I see my pasta put in front of me.
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:34 AM
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Also you must bag your own groceries in the grocery store or they will just stare at you as if to say that you're daft.
For open air markets or fruit stalls, as written above do not touch the fruit and veggies. However for a supermarket, for produce, you must select and weigh your own fruit and veggies, find the appropriate color picture on the scale and press that button for a sticker/barcode to come out. Do not take your produce to the cashier un-stickered! They do not like that.
For open air markets or fruit stalls, as written above do not touch the fruit and veggies. However for a supermarket, for produce, you must select and weigh your own fruit and veggies, find the appropriate color picture on the scale and press that button for a sticker/barcode to come out. Do not take your produce to the cashier un-stickered! They do not like that.
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:39 AM
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This isn't a normal rule, but I always ask someone in charge, in Italian (easy phrase to learn) if it's ok to take photos inside a church or museum. Don't go by what everyone else is doing because many tourists just do it even though it's prohibited. If there's not a clearly posted sign saying photos are ok, I ask, and sometimes even if there is a sign, I still ask to be courteous and show that I am a respectful tourist. I don't like it when you see tourists snapping flash photos when it's prohibitted, it's horrible manners and it's not being a good embassador for ones country. Also, we go there to appreciate this ancient antiquities and flash photography really does damage some of them that are light sensitive.
Jul 9th, 2008, 10:54 AM
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"Also you must bag your own groceries in the grocery store or they will just stare at you as if to say that you're daft."
Funny, but last time I was shopping in a supermarket in New York City, I was bagging my own groceries until by husband stopped me and whispered everybody was staring!
Funny, but last time I was shopping in a supermarket in New York City, I was bagging my own groceries until by husband stopped me and whispered everybody was staring!
