Ireland/Scotland Trip with Adult Children- A Report
May 26th, 2005, 02:37 PM
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Ireland/Scotland Trip with Adult Children- A Report
Well it’s taken me a week tackle this report which I want to share with those on these forums who were so generous in answering my questions before I left; and perhaps to offer some advice for those who are in the planning stages, as I was myself a few short months ago. I'm posting it on the Ireland and Scotland topics, even though I've been advised that it will show up in Europe more than once. I apologize if this goes against Fodor protocol, but when I was doing my research, I only looked at the specific country sites and usually didn't wade through all of the topics under Europe.
This was a trip of 3 weeks, the first 9 days were spent in Ireland with my husband (a 30th anniversary celebrated while gone) two adult sons (24-recent college grad and 28-a teacher in NYC), the older son’s new fiancée, and my husband’s 45 year old bachelor brother. The remainder of the trip was spent alone with my husband in Dublin and then on to Scotland.
I had concerns about traveling with this sized group, adult children, etc. (do I bring song-books and soccer balls like when they were 10, or poker chips, cards and CDs? or is it not my responsibility to think about these things at all?---this was the overwhelming opinion of all who answered my ponderings in this forum). I thank all for the wisdom dispensed which calmed my pre-trip fears, however, I did come away with some good ideas about traveling with such a group which I will share along the way.
Although I am usually the trip planner extraordinaire, I left the Ireland part entirely to my Irish-on-both-sides husband who had long wanted to take the family to Ireland to discover “roots”.
Our trip was scheduled for April 22 with family members coming from Newark NJ, JFK, Boston and Denver; all meeting in the Shannon airport the next morning. Although my husband had booked our tickets in February, he had never been given assigned seats for our flight out of Newark, a fact which he was very concerned about and which should have raised a BIG RED FLAG, even though he was repeatedly told by Continental Airlines that it was not a problem. They told him to call back one month before the flight. I marked it on the calendar and we called back exactly on that date. At that time they told him they were not assigning seats yet and to keep checking, which he did almost daily. They finally said they would assign seats 1 week before the flight, then they said 2 days before, then we should get to the airport 3 hours early…all along this set off alarms in our heads, but at this point all other flights were booked and we were stuck believing Continental would come through, although we were frustrated knowing there was nothing we could do about it anyway.
The afternoon of April 22 we arrived at Newark airport 4 HOURS early (not like us), went through the check-in line, checked our luggage, and were told that they would not assign seats until we got to the gate. Again we expressed concern but were told, “there would be no problem.” We got to the gate and since we were now 3 hours early, there was no agents at the gate. Others for our flight started to gather and although we kept waiting to “get in line” there was no one to get in line for, so we sat, read and waited. When I spotted another couple “waiting” in line in front of the empty counter I realized we had been too complacent and I urged by husband to go stand in front of the empty gate counter too--you can imagine how well that went over. The flight check-in staff arrived 45 minutes before flight departure so he stood there (very unhappily) for about 1 ½ hours. It quickly became clear that the flight to Shannon was oversold by 8 (!) seats and we were now number 3 and 4 in the stand by line (could have been 1 and 2-- but we won’t go there). We had paid full price for our tickets, were never told that there was a possibility that we would not have seats. Although a $400 flight credit was offered for folks to give up their seats, only one person accepted, I think because most of the folks were on a CIE tour.
I thought that Continental was really offensive in their actions and how they handled the situation and I’m hoping to alert others to this possibility. The ticket cost for the flight was way above the $400 offered, they never raised the offer, which I have seen them do in the past on oversold domestic flights. When we asked to speak to a supervisor, we were told that wouldn’t help and when I questioned how they could take our money and not have a seat for us, I was told that the fine print said that we were sold a “reservation” not a “seat.” I have been on domestic flights that were over sold, but having to wait another 2 hours for a domestic flight, does not have the same consequences as delaying a trip another whole DAY for an overseas flights (car reservations lost, hotel deposits, etc.) Overselling by 8 seats is greedy and excessive.
Realizing that there was a good chance we would not be in Shannon the next morning, and with the 4 others in our group already enroute, we asked if we could leave a message for them (the car was rented in my husband’s name, on his credit card, etc., my husband had made all of the reservations, knew where we were going, the routes, etc. and we had naively made no contingency plans for if we all did not arrive in Shannon as planned.) Continental told us they had no way of making long-distance phone calls! The eight seatless passengers were all obviously distraught and you can imagine the scene.
Things got quite intense when, with 5 minutes to departure, there was only one volunteer, and then another woman stood at the counter trying to decide whether to leave her new boyfriend, who was one of the seatless eight, and go on to Shannon without him; or give up her seat, thereby making two seats available. Since my husband and I were number 3 and 4 in line ( #s 1 and 2 being a couple) I quickly realized that it was to our advantage for the young woman NOT to give up her seat, I calculated that the #1 and 2 couple would not like to be separated and that would leave one seat allowing one of us to meet the clan in Shannon. I then proceed to surreptiously try to talk the waivering woman INTO going to Ireland and abandoning her new love ………a despicable act, I know (I do feel bad about this, but heck it was worth a try), but I was desperate. (Here the overwrought-mother thing kicks in, I know, I know, spare me your reprimands!) Well, the woman DID abandon her lover (would have loved to have seen that reunion) and the couple # 1 and 2 decided not to split up and to wait until the next night and go together (I think they took pity on us too)………..at which point my husband thrust his neatly typed itinerary, car reservation, contact information, etc. into my hands and said, as they were closing the doors: “You go, I’ll come tomorrow.” I stared in disbelief as I suddenly became the Captain of a trip I was merely going on as an irresponsible crew member; and, quite uncharacteristically, I burst into tears.
Now I’m a world traveler: Japan, Africa, Greece, all of Europe, etc., but at that moment I was not mentally prepared to take over the running of this family outing, drive on the left, navigate to the first stop (I didn’t even know what the first stop WAS), and be in charge of the group. I sniffled down the gangway, plopped into my bulkhead seat in a daze as they closed the plane doors, and ordered a glass of wine (I don’t drink so these was obviously dire times). After several glasses of wine, I spent the night, studying my husband’s carefully written itinerary, grateful that he had included so many details, and kicking myself for not paying more attention to them ahead of time. I was also happily rescued by my fellow seat mates, a wonderful Irishman and a seasoned visitor to Ireland, who, seeing me sniffle into my blanket, literally held my hand across the Atlantic. By the time I had a few hours of sleep we were approaching the Irish shores. I leaned over and looked out at a sunny morning and what really was an “Emerald Isle”—a patchwork quilt of green, green and more green squares. I was feeling much better, and realized, thanks to my seat mates’ advice, that I COULD handle the next 24 hours.
This was a trip of 3 weeks, the first 9 days were spent in Ireland with my husband (a 30th anniversary celebrated while gone) two adult sons (24-recent college grad and 28-a teacher in NYC), the older son’s new fiancée, and my husband’s 45 year old bachelor brother. The remainder of the trip was spent alone with my husband in Dublin and then on to Scotland.
I had concerns about traveling with this sized group, adult children, etc. (do I bring song-books and soccer balls like when they were 10, or poker chips, cards and CDs? or is it not my responsibility to think about these things at all?---this was the overwhelming opinion of all who answered my ponderings in this forum). I thank all for the wisdom dispensed which calmed my pre-trip fears, however, I did come away with some good ideas about traveling with such a group which I will share along the way.
Although I am usually the trip planner extraordinaire, I left the Ireland part entirely to my Irish-on-both-sides husband who had long wanted to take the family to Ireland to discover “roots”.
Our trip was scheduled for April 22 with family members coming from Newark NJ, JFK, Boston and Denver; all meeting in the Shannon airport the next morning. Although my husband had booked our tickets in February, he had never been given assigned seats for our flight out of Newark, a fact which he was very concerned about and which should have raised a BIG RED FLAG, even though he was repeatedly told by Continental Airlines that it was not a problem. They told him to call back one month before the flight. I marked it on the calendar and we called back exactly on that date. At that time they told him they were not assigning seats yet and to keep checking, which he did almost daily. They finally said they would assign seats 1 week before the flight, then they said 2 days before, then we should get to the airport 3 hours early…all along this set off alarms in our heads, but at this point all other flights were booked and we were stuck believing Continental would come through, although we were frustrated knowing there was nothing we could do about it anyway.
The afternoon of April 22 we arrived at Newark airport 4 HOURS early (not like us), went through the check-in line, checked our luggage, and were told that they would not assign seats until we got to the gate. Again we expressed concern but were told, “there would be no problem.” We got to the gate and since we were now 3 hours early, there was no agents at the gate. Others for our flight started to gather and although we kept waiting to “get in line” there was no one to get in line for, so we sat, read and waited. When I spotted another couple “waiting” in line in front of the empty counter I realized we had been too complacent and I urged by husband to go stand in front of the empty gate counter too--you can imagine how well that went over. The flight check-in staff arrived 45 minutes before flight departure so he stood there (very unhappily) for about 1 ½ hours. It quickly became clear that the flight to Shannon was oversold by 8 (!) seats and we were now number 3 and 4 in the stand by line (could have been 1 and 2-- but we won’t go there). We had paid full price for our tickets, were never told that there was a possibility that we would not have seats. Although a $400 flight credit was offered for folks to give up their seats, only one person accepted, I think because most of the folks were on a CIE tour.
I thought that Continental was really offensive in their actions and how they handled the situation and I’m hoping to alert others to this possibility. The ticket cost for the flight was way above the $400 offered, they never raised the offer, which I have seen them do in the past on oversold domestic flights. When we asked to speak to a supervisor, we were told that wouldn’t help and when I questioned how they could take our money and not have a seat for us, I was told that the fine print said that we were sold a “reservation” not a “seat.” I have been on domestic flights that were over sold, but having to wait another 2 hours for a domestic flight, does not have the same consequences as delaying a trip another whole DAY for an overseas flights (car reservations lost, hotel deposits, etc.) Overselling by 8 seats is greedy and excessive.
Realizing that there was a good chance we would not be in Shannon the next morning, and with the 4 others in our group already enroute, we asked if we could leave a message for them (the car was rented in my husband’s name, on his credit card, etc., my husband had made all of the reservations, knew where we were going, the routes, etc. and we had naively made no contingency plans for if we all did not arrive in Shannon as planned.) Continental told us they had no way of making long-distance phone calls! The eight seatless passengers were all obviously distraught and you can imagine the scene.
Things got quite intense when, with 5 minutes to departure, there was only one volunteer, and then another woman stood at the counter trying to decide whether to leave her new boyfriend, who was one of the seatless eight, and go on to Shannon without him; or give up her seat, thereby making two seats available. Since my husband and I were number 3 and 4 in line ( #s 1 and 2 being a couple) I quickly realized that it was to our advantage for the young woman NOT to give up her seat, I calculated that the #1 and 2 couple would not like to be separated and that would leave one seat allowing one of us to meet the clan in Shannon. I then proceed to surreptiously try to talk the waivering woman INTO going to Ireland and abandoning her new love ………a despicable act, I know (I do feel bad about this, but heck it was worth a try), but I was desperate. (Here the overwrought-mother thing kicks in, I know, I know, spare me your reprimands!) Well, the woman DID abandon her lover (would have loved to have seen that reunion) and the couple # 1 and 2 decided not to split up and to wait until the next night and go together (I think they took pity on us too)………..at which point my husband thrust his neatly typed itinerary, car reservation, contact information, etc. into my hands and said, as they were closing the doors: “You go, I’ll come tomorrow.” I stared in disbelief as I suddenly became the Captain of a trip I was merely going on as an irresponsible crew member; and, quite uncharacteristically, I burst into tears.
Now I’m a world traveler: Japan, Africa, Greece, all of Europe, etc., but at that moment I was not mentally prepared to take over the running of this family outing, drive on the left, navigate to the first stop (I didn’t even know what the first stop WAS), and be in charge of the group. I sniffled down the gangway, plopped into my bulkhead seat in a daze as they closed the plane doors, and ordered a glass of wine (I don’t drink so these was obviously dire times). After several glasses of wine, I spent the night, studying my husband’s carefully written itinerary, grateful that he had included so many details, and kicking myself for not paying more attention to them ahead of time. I was also happily rescued by my fellow seat mates, a wonderful Irishman and a seasoned visitor to Ireland, who, seeing me sniffle into my blanket, literally held my hand across the Atlantic. By the time I had a few hours of sleep we were approaching the Irish shores. I leaned over and looked out at a sunny morning and what really was an “Emerald Isle”—a patchwork quilt of green, green and more green squares. I was feeling much better, and realized, thanks to my seat mates’ advice, that I COULD handle the next 24 hours.
May 26th, 2005, 02:59 PM
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Marshacarlin,
What a wonderful report so far. My, Fodorites are gifted writers -- puts my feeble attempts to shame.
I can't wait to hear about your driving experience and hope you were re-united with your husband quickly. I would have been so mad at Continental!
What a wonderful report so far. My, Fodorites are gifted writers -- puts my feeble attempts to shame.
I can't wait to hear about your driving experience and hope you were re-united with your husband quickly. I would have been so mad at Continental!
May 26th, 2005, 06:49 PM
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marshacarlin,
you have struck fear into my heart. We made reservations on Aer Lingus (through American frequent flyer miles) last August for our trip to Ireland in June and they will not assign seats for the trip out of Chicago. Did assign return seats though. We are traveling with our two teenaged kids. I am really worried the flight is overbooked and that's why our seats weren't assigned. But I don't know what I can do, other than arrive at airport 3 hours early as they instructed me. It stinks!
you have struck fear into my heart. We made reservations on Aer Lingus (through American frequent flyer miles) last August for our trip to Ireland in June and they will not assign seats for the trip out of Chicago. Did assign return seats though. We are traveling with our two teenaged kids. I am really worried the flight is overbooked and that's why our seats weren't assigned. But I don't know what I can do, other than arrive at airport 3 hours early as they instructed me. It stinks!
May 26th, 2005, 09:05 PM
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I don't know what to say to allay your fears. My husband swears he will not make reservations again, unless he gets seat assignments in advance. We too had return seats, so we should have been suspicious of none on the way out. Others here have suggested that overbooking is the only way airlines keep the fares down and competitive but obviously I would now pay more for the peace of mind. I'd call the airlines I guess and ask if they are overbooked or just holding seats for special needs. It all worked out in the end I guess but the stress at the time was ugly.
May 27th, 2005, 05:14 AM
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Marshacarlin,
Well, I just hung up with Aer Lingus and they assigned us seats! I'm so thrilled because I had called them several times recently and they wouldn't do it. This time, I told the agent your story, and she put me on hold for awhile. When she came back, she was able to assign the seats.
I guess it shows that sometimes persistence pays off, and also I think it depends which agent you get. Or maybe she was in a good mood cause it's Friday.
At any rate, your story motivated me to try one more time, so thank you!
I know everything can't always go perfectly when traveling, but at least this is one big worry I can forget about.
Well, I just hung up with Aer Lingus and they assigned us seats! I'm so thrilled because I had called them several times recently and they wouldn't do it. This time, I told the agent your story, and she put me on hold for awhile. When she came back, she was able to assign the seats.
I guess it shows that sometimes persistence pays off, and also I think it depends which agent you get. Or maybe she was in a good mood cause it's Friday.
At any rate, your story motivated me to try one more time, so thank you!
I know everything can't always go perfectly when traveling, but at least this is one big worry I can forget about.
May 27th, 2005, 05:25 AM
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Day One: Where’s Dad?
After landing, clearing customs, etc., I located the rest of my family and decided to see how long it would take them to realize that “Captain” dad was not present. (My husband is not the “Captain” type, but it is testimony to how into organizing this trip he was, that he had signed all correspondences and up dates about the trip with the moniker of “Captain”. Go figure.) What with various arrival times, getting the car, the luggage, etc. it was a full 40 minutes before someone finally said, “Where’s dad?”! When I responded that dad was in New Jersey, it took another 10 minutes for them to believe that I wasn’t just being my usual “exaggerating” mom self again. I had a good laugh at that one, and everyone immediately offered support and a “can do” attitude. As mad and frustrated as I was at Continental, I think, as with all things unexpected in travel or life, it was this set-back that caused everyone to rally around and helped cement our group of travelers from the start. We were ready to roll.
This next part is all about renting a car, the size of vans, driving on the left, etc. If that's not of interest to you skip down to Day 1: Con't Queen's Cakes. I include all the driving stuff, cause when I was planning it really wanted to know this kind of stuff. Anyway....
The Car Rental:
My husband did a lot of comparison shopping online and rented from Irish car rental.com (He was not aware of this forum when he planned the trip so I don’t know if there were better options) With 6 people we obviously needed a van (although some suggested 2 cars because of the close quarters, the narrow roads, etc., I’m glad we didn’t because the time together was worth any hassle the van entailed.) Anyway I was given a Zafira, I think it's a kind of Opal and it looked like a miniature mini van compared to what we see in the States. As I contemplated the luggage that needed to fit into this petite vehicle [my husband and I were going on to Scotland after Ireland (gone a total of 3 weeks—that’s my excuse anyway for over packing), and I like to have lots of dressing options since you never know what the weather or social occasions will demand, AND since I’m a painter and brought canvases, paints, etc., we had 2 fairly good-sized suitcases—some of my stuff was of course in my husband’s suitcase. My son and his fiancée still being in the cooperative part of their relationship, shared one large old-fashioned rectangular suitcase, and the other 2 bachelors had smaller, but not small cases.] Needless to day we could see that is was going to be a squeeze, and the husband hadn’t even arrived yet. The seat arrangement was 2 in front, 3 in the middle, 2 seats in the back--one for a passenger, one for luggage. Unlike some US vans there was not a lot of room behind the last row of seats although we managed to squeeze the old-fashioned rectagular (22 x30) suitcase back there. We also had various backpacks, etc. and of course coats, and, eventually, purchases, picnic supplies, cheese, bread, the necessary chocolate, etc. that got shoved in. The first day, we had the extra seat, but we knew we would be in trouble when husband joined the group. Eager to get on the road and not realizing there were other-sized vans available in Ireland……..what did I know, I hadn’t planned this trip…..we piled everything into the 2 rear seats and took off. The van was an automatic (for which I was very grateful, given all of the other things there were to get used to with driving on the left) and the cost was 799 Euros for 11 days. That included one extra driver at 7.75Euros/day, Collision insurance and VAT and a fill up on fuel (Irish car rental insisted on the car being returned empty, which was strange, but they explained that people complained because there were no gas stations near the Shannon airport so it was hard to return the tank full---whatever.....we never opt for them to fill it up in the US but there was not an option---the fill up charge was 74. euors which I think was higher than we paid when we filled up--all of this was part of the 799 euro total).
Our first night’s destination was Doolin, which the itinerary said was just past the Cliffs of Moher, a must see stop. Thankfully my husband had planned on a short stint for our first day of driving, because as anyone who has been there or read these forums knows, driving on narrow Irish roads on the left, in a van, on little sleep, is a challenge. I consider myself a good driver (I learned on the L.A. freeways), but after an overnight flight, the stress of the trip, the size of the van, general disorientation, I found myself griping the wheel with white knuckles, and shuddering and emitting small squeals every time we passed a bus, lorry or a long line of cars. I think, however, that the persons in the left-hand seats in the back of the van had an even worse time of it, since I tended to hug the left-hand ditch on that first day and many times I saw/heard, them flinch/wince/gasp as they thought they were about to lose their left arms to the hedges or stone walls that line the narrow roads.
The Driving:
I have the following words of advice about the driving experience:
Don't plan on driving far the first day, after a couple of hours I was happy to arrive at our first destination.
The navigator is a really important person and the person taking that spot needs to be dedicated to “sharing” the driving experience; as a matter of fact for the first few days everyone should take responsibility to remind the driver to "look right, stay left" especially when making a turn....which is the most likely time to revert to pulling into the right-hand lane...once you get going it's easier to remember to stay on the left. I found left (I mean right) turns the most disconcerting maneuvers, going across traffic on the right made me feel as if someone was going to come up on my right side from behind and hit me. I also couldn’t get used to looking up to the left for the rearview mirror and probably spent at least the first 3 hours thinking there was no one behind me cause I’d glance up to the right for the rearview mirror, see nothing there, not realize I had a line of cars trailing behind….you get the picture. Once I got the hang of where the rearview mirror was, I would pull over and let the line of cars pass which took a lot of pressure off.
I really think that they ought to issue American car renters those little magnetic American Flags everyone has around here to “support the troops” to put on the front and back of the rented vehicle, to alert Irish drivers that there is a menace on the road and to take the necessary precautions.
More Driving Tips:
On a dual carriage road (two lanes going the same way) the faster lane, for passing only, is on the right;
roundabouts go clockwise and I thought they were great, you just have to wait for a gap to enter and have your navigator (armed with a good map--my husband had shoved the Red Michelin into my hands as I stumbled onto the plane) help you figure out where you want to exit since the towns on the signs might be towns on your route, but not the town of your destination; when in doubt, I would just go around again rather than cutting someone off, four times was the record I think;
The roads are NARROW and people travel much faster than we're used to with oncoming traffic and no barriers between us;
also there are ditches on the left that are easy to go into if you are intimidated by an oncoming bus or truck (they don't give an inch), so hold your ground and just know that the road really is wide enough, or else just slow down when it seems too tight and let the oncoming bus pass; no one behind me seemed to mind and didn't hit me from behind when I did that.
BTW as I recall car insurance doesn't cover tires or undercarriage damage and I can see why. It's easy to hit rocks on the side of the road if you're not careful....you can buy extra insurance for that but we took our chances and were OK.
AND FINALLY, the driver doesn’t really get to look at the scenery, what with the white knuckles and all (and no relief driver aboard the first day), so I only have fleeting impressions of the country side, but I do recall beauty, lots o’ green, rock walls meandering everywhere, and SUNNY skies! With big puffy clouds and NO RAIN.
Day 1, Con’t: Queen Cakes and Ignore the "Warning" Signs
Enough about driving, ……. our first real stop on our way to Doolin and the Cliff of Moher was Ennistimon, a smallish town where we all took a break and wandered off---heeding the advice of Fodorites and fellow travelers with children to allow space and time for non-group activities. I found a bakery on the main street in town that had delicious little yellow cupcake-like things which they called Queen’s Cakes that were stuffed with jam and topped with cream. (looking for the recipe if anyone knows one); I bought a bag-full (keep the troops fed) and caught up with the others who had gone up on the hill to the burial grounds (cemetary), exploring our first ruins, graves and enjoying the best view in town. I was struck again by how green it all was, the amazing rock walls all over, and the wonderful weather. We walked back down into town and stumbled onto a local mini water falls (Cascades I think the sign said) and felt like adventurers walking along the local stream …that is until a golden retriever decided to adopt us after taking a bath in the aforementioned stream, shook himself all over us and then rolled in some dead animal before pouncing on the fiancée who turned out to have a dog phobia………..not a trait we knew about before the trip………so it took some quick-footed maneuvering to get the dog back in the stream (the brother-in-law tossed a convenient stick), and the troops outraced the bounding dog back to the car………and off we went towards the cliffs of Moher. There was a note in the itinerary about visiting them at sunset for an inspiring sight, and inorder to avoid the parking fee; HOWEVER, although the day was clear, clouds were gathering and the group voted to stop on the way to Doolin rather than risk what we thought would be the inevitable Irish rain at the end of the day. It was our first encounter with the democratic process and it proved to be a good model for the rest of the trip--I was holding out for beatiful sunset,the rest wanted immediate gradification--we went to the Cliffs. It was still early in the day, before noon as I recall, and although an end of the day visit might mean spectacular views and avoiding the parking fee, a pre-noon visit meant avoiding the busloads of other tourists--a good choice I think.
The brother-in-law’s guidebook mentioned that the best views were to be had if one climbed over the barricades that are meant to keep visitors away from the edge of the 203 meter cliffs (not something the guidebook officially endorsed doing, of course), so, of course, my sons immediately jumped over the rocks and headed to the edge……..my heart was in my throat, and I would have been busy urging them back if I hadn’t noticed that fully 2/3 of the visitors to the Cliffs were on the far side of the barricades as well. This was my first realization that in the U.S.A. there would be high fences in place to keep us from endangering ourselves, but in other countries a simple sign suggesting that you not to go too close to the edge is all there is, and you’re left to make your own decision about how much danger you wanted to incur. Aside from taking some consolation that my “adult” children were not the only ones approaching the edge, I was kept busy dealing with the fiancée’s 2nd, not previously apparent phobia, ……heights………So while my sons and the brother-in-law crawled to edge and lay on their stomachs and gazed down on the waves crashing rocks far below……..I was distracted from dealing with my own fears by consoling the fiancée. I know I am being witty at the financee’s expense--She really is a wonderful girl, but it is amazing what you learn in a short time while traveling together……..After about 1 ½ hours at the Cliffs we continued on to the B and B reserved by the husband in Doolin.
Since there were 6 of us we had reservations at each stop of the trip (we normally would leave some nights to chance and find something where ever we wound up, but the husband had been advised that with such a large group it might be difficult to find one place that could accommodate all of us, even this early in the season; He had also decided that we wanted to be located within walking distance of pubs, attractions, etc. so that we wouldn’t be dependent on the car and the need to stay together once we arrived at our day’s destination--We were also working on a restricted budget since many of the group wanted to only spend 30-40 Euro/day on lodging. Staying within towns turned out to be great while traveling with Adult children, or I suspect any sizeable group.
At the Seaview in Doolin the rooms were pretty with lovely views across the countryside and it was nicely located within walking distance of the lower (or was it the upper?) town, many pubs, shopping, music stores, etc. We headed out immediately for the first of many Guinnesses (?) of the trip and a pub lunch at O’Connors . It was delicious and we wound up returning for dinner in order to be there in time to get seats for the 9:30 traditional music. Doolin is known for traditional music (I learned this from the excellent itinerary) and we were eager to hear it. We were not disappointed; the crowd was large and happy, the music and food were great. We walked back to the Seaview at 11:30, when I think the pubs close, and would have happily fallen into a long sleep……except that I had to get up at 6:00 a.m. the next morning and return to Shannon to pick up the Captain of the trip. I arranged for the Seaview host to hold our first "fry" breakfast until 9:30 when I calculated we would return from Shannon, crawled under a warm comforter, stared out at a full moon and fell asleep.
After landing, clearing customs, etc., I located the rest of my family and decided to see how long it would take them to realize that “Captain” dad was not present. (My husband is not the “Captain” type, but it is testimony to how into organizing this trip he was, that he had signed all correspondences and up dates about the trip with the moniker of “Captain”. Go figure.) What with various arrival times, getting the car, the luggage, etc. it was a full 40 minutes before someone finally said, “Where’s dad?”! When I responded that dad was in New Jersey, it took another 10 minutes for them to believe that I wasn’t just being my usual “exaggerating” mom self again. I had a good laugh at that one, and everyone immediately offered support and a “can do” attitude. As mad and frustrated as I was at Continental, I think, as with all things unexpected in travel or life, it was this set-back that caused everyone to rally around and helped cement our group of travelers from the start. We were ready to roll.
This next part is all about renting a car, the size of vans, driving on the left, etc. If that's not of interest to you skip down to Day 1: Con't Queen's Cakes. I include all the driving stuff, cause when I was planning it really wanted to know this kind of stuff. Anyway....
The Car Rental:
My husband did a lot of comparison shopping online and rented from Irish car rental.com (He was not aware of this forum when he planned the trip so I don’t know if there were better options) With 6 people we obviously needed a van (although some suggested 2 cars because of the close quarters, the narrow roads, etc., I’m glad we didn’t because the time together was worth any hassle the van entailed.) Anyway I was given a Zafira, I think it's a kind of Opal and it looked like a miniature mini van compared to what we see in the States. As I contemplated the luggage that needed to fit into this petite vehicle [my husband and I were going on to Scotland after Ireland (gone a total of 3 weeks—that’s my excuse anyway for over packing), and I like to have lots of dressing options since you never know what the weather or social occasions will demand, AND since I’m a painter and brought canvases, paints, etc., we had 2 fairly good-sized suitcases—some of my stuff was of course in my husband’s suitcase. My son and his fiancée still being in the cooperative part of their relationship, shared one large old-fashioned rectangular suitcase, and the other 2 bachelors had smaller, but not small cases.] Needless to day we could see that is was going to be a squeeze, and the husband hadn’t even arrived yet. The seat arrangement was 2 in front, 3 in the middle, 2 seats in the back--one for a passenger, one for luggage. Unlike some US vans there was not a lot of room behind the last row of seats although we managed to squeeze the old-fashioned rectagular (22 x30) suitcase back there. We also had various backpacks, etc. and of course coats, and, eventually, purchases, picnic supplies, cheese, bread, the necessary chocolate, etc. that got shoved in. The first day, we had the extra seat, but we knew we would be in trouble when husband joined the group. Eager to get on the road and not realizing there were other-sized vans available in Ireland……..what did I know, I hadn’t planned this trip…..we piled everything into the 2 rear seats and took off. The van was an automatic (for which I was very grateful, given all of the other things there were to get used to with driving on the left) and the cost was 799 Euros for 11 days. That included one extra driver at 7.75Euros/day, Collision insurance and VAT and a fill up on fuel (Irish car rental insisted on the car being returned empty, which was strange, but they explained that people complained because there were no gas stations near the Shannon airport so it was hard to return the tank full---whatever.....we never opt for them to fill it up in the US but there was not an option---the fill up charge was 74. euors which I think was higher than we paid when we filled up--all of this was part of the 799 euro total).
Our first night’s destination was Doolin, which the itinerary said was just past the Cliffs of Moher, a must see stop. Thankfully my husband had planned on a short stint for our first day of driving, because as anyone who has been there or read these forums knows, driving on narrow Irish roads on the left, in a van, on little sleep, is a challenge. I consider myself a good driver (I learned on the L.A. freeways), but after an overnight flight, the stress of the trip, the size of the van, general disorientation, I found myself griping the wheel with white knuckles, and shuddering and emitting small squeals every time we passed a bus, lorry or a long line of cars. I think, however, that the persons in the left-hand seats in the back of the van had an even worse time of it, since I tended to hug the left-hand ditch on that first day and many times I saw/heard, them flinch/wince/gasp as they thought they were about to lose their left arms to the hedges or stone walls that line the narrow roads.
The Driving:
I have the following words of advice about the driving experience:
Don't plan on driving far the first day, after a couple of hours I was happy to arrive at our first destination.
The navigator is a really important person and the person taking that spot needs to be dedicated to “sharing” the driving experience; as a matter of fact for the first few days everyone should take responsibility to remind the driver to "look right, stay left" especially when making a turn....which is the most likely time to revert to pulling into the right-hand lane...once you get going it's easier to remember to stay on the left. I found left (I mean right) turns the most disconcerting maneuvers, going across traffic on the right made me feel as if someone was going to come up on my right side from behind and hit me. I also couldn’t get used to looking up to the left for the rearview mirror and probably spent at least the first 3 hours thinking there was no one behind me cause I’d glance up to the right for the rearview mirror, see nothing there, not realize I had a line of cars trailing behind….you get the picture. Once I got the hang of where the rearview mirror was, I would pull over and let the line of cars pass which took a lot of pressure off.
I really think that they ought to issue American car renters those little magnetic American Flags everyone has around here to “support the troops” to put on the front and back of the rented vehicle, to alert Irish drivers that there is a menace on the road and to take the necessary precautions.
More Driving Tips:
On a dual carriage road (two lanes going the same way) the faster lane, for passing only, is on the right;
roundabouts go clockwise and I thought they were great, you just have to wait for a gap to enter and have your navigator (armed with a good map--my husband had shoved the Red Michelin into my hands as I stumbled onto the plane) help you figure out where you want to exit since the towns on the signs might be towns on your route, but not the town of your destination; when in doubt, I would just go around again rather than cutting someone off, four times was the record I think;
The roads are NARROW and people travel much faster than we're used to with oncoming traffic and no barriers between us;
also there are ditches on the left that are easy to go into if you are intimidated by an oncoming bus or truck (they don't give an inch), so hold your ground and just know that the road really is wide enough, or else just slow down when it seems too tight and let the oncoming bus pass; no one behind me seemed to mind and didn't hit me from behind when I did that.
BTW as I recall car insurance doesn't cover tires or undercarriage damage and I can see why. It's easy to hit rocks on the side of the road if you're not careful....you can buy extra insurance for that but we took our chances and were OK.
AND FINALLY, the driver doesn’t really get to look at the scenery, what with the white knuckles and all (and no relief driver aboard the first day), so I only have fleeting impressions of the country side, but I do recall beauty, lots o’ green, rock walls meandering everywhere, and SUNNY skies! With big puffy clouds and NO RAIN.
Day 1, Con’t: Queen Cakes and Ignore the "Warning" Signs
Enough about driving, ……. our first real stop on our way to Doolin and the Cliff of Moher was Ennistimon, a smallish town where we all took a break and wandered off---heeding the advice of Fodorites and fellow travelers with children to allow space and time for non-group activities. I found a bakery on the main street in town that had delicious little yellow cupcake-like things which they called Queen’s Cakes that were stuffed with jam and topped with cream. (looking for the recipe if anyone knows one); I bought a bag-full (keep the troops fed) and caught up with the others who had gone up on the hill to the burial grounds (cemetary), exploring our first ruins, graves and enjoying the best view in town. I was struck again by how green it all was, the amazing rock walls all over, and the wonderful weather. We walked back down into town and stumbled onto a local mini water falls (Cascades I think the sign said) and felt like adventurers walking along the local stream …that is until a golden retriever decided to adopt us after taking a bath in the aforementioned stream, shook himself all over us and then rolled in some dead animal before pouncing on the fiancée who turned out to have a dog phobia………..not a trait we knew about before the trip………so it took some quick-footed maneuvering to get the dog back in the stream (the brother-in-law tossed a convenient stick), and the troops outraced the bounding dog back to the car………and off we went towards the cliffs of Moher. There was a note in the itinerary about visiting them at sunset for an inspiring sight, and inorder to avoid the parking fee; HOWEVER, although the day was clear, clouds were gathering and the group voted to stop on the way to Doolin rather than risk what we thought would be the inevitable Irish rain at the end of the day. It was our first encounter with the democratic process and it proved to be a good model for the rest of the trip--I was holding out for beatiful sunset,the rest wanted immediate gradification--we went to the Cliffs. It was still early in the day, before noon as I recall, and although an end of the day visit might mean spectacular views and avoiding the parking fee, a pre-noon visit meant avoiding the busloads of other tourists--a good choice I think.
The brother-in-law’s guidebook mentioned that the best views were to be had if one climbed over the barricades that are meant to keep visitors away from the edge of the 203 meter cliffs (not something the guidebook officially endorsed doing, of course), so, of course, my sons immediately jumped over the rocks and headed to the edge……..my heart was in my throat, and I would have been busy urging them back if I hadn’t noticed that fully 2/3 of the visitors to the Cliffs were on the far side of the barricades as well. This was my first realization that in the U.S.A. there would be high fences in place to keep us from endangering ourselves, but in other countries a simple sign suggesting that you not to go too close to the edge is all there is, and you’re left to make your own decision about how much danger you wanted to incur. Aside from taking some consolation that my “adult” children were not the only ones approaching the edge, I was kept busy dealing with the fiancée’s 2nd, not previously apparent phobia, ……heights………So while my sons and the brother-in-law crawled to edge and lay on their stomachs and gazed down on the waves crashing rocks far below……..I was distracted from dealing with my own fears by consoling the fiancée. I know I am being witty at the financee’s expense--She really is a wonderful girl, but it is amazing what you learn in a short time while traveling together……..After about 1 ½ hours at the Cliffs we continued on to the B and B reserved by the husband in Doolin.
Since there were 6 of us we had reservations at each stop of the trip (we normally would leave some nights to chance and find something where ever we wound up, but the husband had been advised that with such a large group it might be difficult to find one place that could accommodate all of us, even this early in the season; He had also decided that we wanted to be located within walking distance of pubs, attractions, etc. so that we wouldn’t be dependent on the car and the need to stay together once we arrived at our day’s destination--We were also working on a restricted budget since many of the group wanted to only spend 30-40 Euro/day on lodging. Staying within towns turned out to be great while traveling with Adult children, or I suspect any sizeable group.
At the Seaview in Doolin the rooms were pretty with lovely views across the countryside and it was nicely located within walking distance of the lower (or was it the upper?) town, many pubs, shopping, music stores, etc. We headed out immediately for the first of many Guinnesses (?) of the trip and a pub lunch at O’Connors . It was delicious and we wound up returning for dinner in order to be there in time to get seats for the 9:30 traditional music. Doolin is known for traditional music (I learned this from the excellent itinerary) and we were eager to hear it. We were not disappointed; the crowd was large and happy, the music and food were great. We walked back to the Seaview at 11:30, when I think the pubs close, and would have happily fallen into a long sleep……except that I had to get up at 6:00 a.m. the next morning and return to Shannon to pick up the Captain of the trip. I arranged for the Seaview host to hold our first "fry" breakfast until 9:30 when I calculated we would return from Shannon, crawled under a warm comforter, stared out at a full moon and fell asleep.
May 27th, 2005, 11:38 AM
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Wow marshacarlin! So sorry your trip got off to a rocky start but you handled it very well. Don't know if I have the fortitude to drive on the "wrong" side of the road. I'll be looking for these possible pitfalls when husband and I go to Ireland in Oct. I'm thoroughly enjoying this - Can't wait to read more.
May 27th, 2005, 02:19 PM
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Hi Marshacarlin,
Sounds like your trip got started a little like ours. Only both my husband and I had missed our connection and had to wait for the next day to get to Shannon.
Enjoyed your report so far.
Glad you liked Doolin. We've been home 5 days now and I was just thinking...a week ago we were walking around the beach were Ryan's Daughter was filmed. Miss it already.
Robbyn
Sounds like your trip got started a little like ours. Only both my husband and I had missed our connection and had to wait for the next day to get to Shannon.
Enjoyed your report so far.
Glad you liked Doolin. We've been home 5 days now and I was just thinking...a week ago we were walking around the beach were Ryan's Daughter was filmed. Miss it already.
Robbyn
May 27th, 2005, 03:28 PM
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Marsha, I too booked my flights with Continental in February (leaving Atlanta on 5/21, with a two-hour layover in Newark before going to Edinburgh)and was given seat assignments immediately, for all four legs of the round trip.
AND, there were no changes to any of the seat assignments; i.e., I sat in each seat promised to me back in February. My flight home 5/26 was overbooked by many people. I don't know how many exactly but there was a mob of angry people standing at the counter as i boarded.
No volunteers to fly home via Bristol (with an overnight layover), even though the promised voucher was for $800 by the time I boarded the plane!
How strange how double standards affected our flights...
AND, there were no changes to any of the seat assignments; i.e., I sat in each seat promised to me back in February. My flight home 5/26 was overbooked by many people. I don't know how many exactly but there was a mob of angry people standing at the counter as i boarded.
No volunteers to fly home via Bristol (with an overnight layover), even though the promised voucher was for $800 by the time I boarded the plane!
How strange how double standards affected our flights...
May 28th, 2005, 06:17 AM
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Day 2: The Captain Arrives
My youngest son volunteered to get up at 6 a.m. and go back with me to Shannon to pick up the Captain while the others slept. We shared a wonderful drive, on now empty-Sunday-morning roads, during a misty, but once again, CLEAR Irish morning. This time the stone walls, a pure white horse standing alone in a green, (did I mention the green?) hilly field, were all wonderful sites that I could appreciate more after a day of getting used to staying left and a night’s rest.
Found the husband waiting at the curb at Shannon, and although he volunteered to drive, I felt like I was now so experienced (and he so tired) that, what a short 24 hours earlier had been a stressful challenge, was now a badge of honor.
Youngest son became the tour leader, pointing out all of the sites as we high-tailed it back to Doolin in time for the last breakfast call at 9:30. The whole family awaited us and we ate the first of many Irish fry breakfasts of eggs, bacon, sausage, grilled tomato, and brown bread—it will be many months before I can face another egg, be it wet scrambled (dry, please), hard fried (can't their be just a little bit of runny yellow?), overly poached or not-soft soft boiled—but more on that later.
Continental airlines wound up giving husband a $500 voucher for the involuntary bump, and one-way taxi fare back home, but no taxi fare back to the airport the next day. I’m still trying to decide where to complain about this and what if anything they will do. But for the rest of the trip the aborted departure was forgotten. If this report only serves to alert others to the practice and helps them avert our situation I guess I’ll be happy.
After breakfast we drove down to Doolin Harbor, where the previous evening the fiancée and I had seen the largest waves ever. The sight of these gigantic waves with the setting sun shining through them turning them sparkling turquoise like the Caribbean, was something I wanted to share with the Captain, and the rest of the family who had been napping the day before. I was raised on So. Cal beaches and I had never seen such large waves. Unfortunately, the spectacle of the previous day, according to several surfers who were hanging out, was due to some sort of weather phenom, and the surf was much calmer when we arrived the next morning. They said however, that the area was famous for its surfing. (who knew there’d be surfers in Ireland?) But still, if you’re in Doolin go down to the harbor and take a look.
We then began the task of packing up, but now we had the Captain (6 feet 190 lbs—on a good day, or a bad scale) along so now there were 6 passengers and all of the luggage to get into the miniature Zafira van. The boys took on the precision packing job like a puzzle—it reminded me or previous cross-country trip of their youth and I think it was a good bonding experience for them. They managed to get everything in but only after the 6th person was first squeezed into the 6th seat (5 ft. fiancee was the first to volunteer) and things were packed and piled in around her. We realized that the only way we were going to make this work was to switch off who sat in the far back (usually the person who wanted an hour’s nap, since you couldn't really see much when all of the bags got stuffed in, but it was cozy and we made the last layer the coats so you had a nice pillow effect.)
Next stop on the husband’s itinerary was the Burren, but before we headed out the youngest son revealed that he had not actually gone to bed when we all returned from O’Connor’s Pub the night before (having taken a long nap that afternoon he wasn’t sleepy). Instead, he had taken advantage of the full moon and the clear night to cross the fields up the road, had found a ruined castle and had explored it in the moonlight. (glad I did not know this that night, or I would have not gotten the few hours of sleep I did get; and of course, after the fact, I thought of all the mother-horor thoughts, like: what if he had fallen and we didn’t know where he had gone to, and how many years later would they have found his body, yada, yada, yada.---but I didn’t know so all was well) He wanted to share his discovery with us, so we drove up the road behind the Seaview and found our first Irish castle looking out towards the pounding waves and the sea…..magical.
By now husband was anxious to get behind the wheel, so I reluctantly(!) gave it up (what a difference a day makes), and assumed a seat in the middle row far left. As nervous I as was the day before, it was FAR WORSE being the passenger on the left side, eating dust from the ditch and fearing for my life as the husband got used to the narrow roads. Within a day or two we both got much better at this driving stuff (although it was still necessary for all aboard to repeat the mantra
quot;Look right, stay left", and it was actually fun. I was still always amazed at how much easier it was to BE the driver than the passenger.
Next Installment: The Burren
My youngest son volunteered to get up at 6 a.m. and go back with me to Shannon to pick up the Captain while the others slept. We shared a wonderful drive, on now empty-Sunday-morning roads, during a misty, but once again, CLEAR Irish morning. This time the stone walls, a pure white horse standing alone in a green, (did I mention the green?) hilly field, were all wonderful sites that I could appreciate more after a day of getting used to staying left and a night’s rest.
Found the husband waiting at the curb at Shannon, and although he volunteered to drive, I felt like I was now so experienced (and he so tired) that, what a short 24 hours earlier had been a stressful challenge, was now a badge of honor.
Youngest son became the tour leader, pointing out all of the sites as we high-tailed it back to Doolin in time for the last breakfast call at 9:30. The whole family awaited us and we ate the first of many Irish fry breakfasts of eggs, bacon, sausage, grilled tomato, and brown bread—it will be many months before I can face another egg, be it wet scrambled (dry, please), hard fried (can't their be just a little bit of runny yellow?), overly poached or not-soft soft boiled—but more on that later.
Continental airlines wound up giving husband a $500 voucher for the involuntary bump, and one-way taxi fare back home, but no taxi fare back to the airport the next day. I’m still trying to decide where to complain about this and what if anything they will do. But for the rest of the trip the aborted departure was forgotten. If this report only serves to alert others to the practice and helps them avert our situation I guess I’ll be happy.
After breakfast we drove down to Doolin Harbor, where the previous evening the fiancée and I had seen the largest waves ever. The sight of these gigantic waves with the setting sun shining through them turning them sparkling turquoise like the Caribbean, was something I wanted to share with the Captain, and the rest of the family who had been napping the day before. I was raised on So. Cal beaches and I had never seen such large waves. Unfortunately, the spectacle of the previous day, according to several surfers who were hanging out, was due to some sort of weather phenom, and the surf was much calmer when we arrived the next morning. They said however, that the area was famous for its surfing. (who knew there’d be surfers in Ireland?) But still, if you’re in Doolin go down to the harbor and take a look.
We then began the task of packing up, but now we had the Captain (6 feet 190 lbs—on a good day, or a bad scale) along so now there were 6 passengers and all of the luggage to get into the miniature Zafira van. The boys took on the precision packing job like a puzzle—it reminded me or previous cross-country trip of their youth and I think it was a good bonding experience for them. They managed to get everything in but only after the 6th person was first squeezed into the 6th seat (5 ft. fiancee was the first to volunteer) and things were packed and piled in around her. We realized that the only way we were going to make this work was to switch off who sat in the far back (usually the person who wanted an hour’s nap, since you couldn't really see much when all of the bags got stuffed in, but it was cozy and we made the last layer the coats so you had a nice pillow effect.)
Next stop on the husband’s itinerary was the Burren, but before we headed out the youngest son revealed that he had not actually gone to bed when we all returned from O’Connor’s Pub the night before (having taken a long nap that afternoon he wasn’t sleepy). Instead, he had taken advantage of the full moon and the clear night to cross the fields up the road, had found a ruined castle and had explored it in the moonlight. (glad I did not know this that night, or I would have not gotten the few hours of sleep I did get; and of course, after the fact, I thought of all the mother-horor thoughts, like: what if he had fallen and we didn’t know where he had gone to, and how many years later would they have found his body, yada, yada, yada.---but I didn’t know so all was well) He wanted to share his discovery with us, so we drove up the road behind the Seaview and found our first Irish castle looking out towards the pounding waves and the sea…..magical.
By now husband was anxious to get behind the wheel, so I reluctantly(!) gave it up (what a difference a day makes), and assumed a seat in the middle row far left. As nervous I as was the day before, it was FAR WORSE being the passenger on the left side, eating dust from the ditch and fearing for my life as the husband got used to the narrow roads. Within a day or two we both got much better at this driving stuff (although it was still necessary for all aboard to repeat the mantra
quot;Look right, stay left", and it was actually fun. I was still always amazed at how much easier it was to BE the driver than the passenger. Next Installment: The Burren
May 28th, 2005, 06:53 AM
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Marshacarlin,
I'm so enjoying your report. I just read it to my husband. I can relate to your son and the castle experience. Glad you found out the next morning.
Waiting to hear about your day at the Burren.
Thanks,
Robbyn
I'm so enjoying your report. I just read it to my husband. I can relate to your son and the castle experience. Glad you found out the next morning.
Waiting to hear about your day at the Burren.
Thanks,
Robbyn
May 28th, 2005, 09:27 AM
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marshacarlin,
I've been eagerly awaiting each installment of your journey. You have a wonderful talent for writing in a way that brings the reader along with you. I felt I was bouncing along those narrow roads with you.
I also have contacted AerLingus and was able to make a seat reservation for our trip in September. Thanks so much for the heads up.
Rachel
I've been eagerly awaiting each installment of your journey. You have a wonderful talent for writing in a way that brings the reader along with you. I felt I was bouncing along those narrow roads with you.
I also have contacted AerLingus and was able to make a seat reservation for our trip in September. Thanks so much for the heads up.
Rachel
May 28th, 2005, 03:28 PM
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I love these reports regarding Ireland!!! Why is it that it seems travellers to Ireland have problems and yet handle them which such grace and humor? Oh marshacarlin, I can hardly wait for the next segment. I remember your thread regarding planning for this trip. How great you are sharing all the frustrations and joys with us. And I bet you dear husband was so worried about you while he was left behind. Your family sounds delightful!
May 28th, 2005, 06:54 PM
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Bravo! You are a true 'visitor', rather than just another tourist. I suspect it is something about Ireland though, that brings out the best in people, even when adversity rears its ugly head. I find it excedingly hard to get angry or cranky or even upset whenever I'm there. Maybe that's why I keep going back?
Love your report. Please keep it going.
Bob
Love your report. Please keep it going.
Bob
