Improving Conversational French
Aug 28th, 2007, 03:10 PM
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Improving Conversational French
I am seeking opinions about the best way to take my weak French language skills to an fairly skilled conversational level. Is software a good option or is attending a class likely to be more effective? If you have experience in this area, can you offer specifics about the plan that worked for you? Many thanks for your help.
Aug 28th, 2007, 06:39 PM
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If you are serious about conversational language, you must actually speak to people -- a lot. Software is not a good option for conversational skills. A class is definitely more effective because you will actually have to listen and speak to people, and speak extemporaneously, not just parrot back phrases you heard on a CD in a set order. I'm not fluent in French but can carry on extemporaneous conversations, even with French people, and I've studied it and taken classes for years, as well as visiting French speaking countries once or more a year. I've also studied in France about three times, I guess, for extended periods (not always terribly long, last time due to schedules, I just took a morning conversation class in Paris for two weeks). I take a French class once or twice a year now that involves interacting and speaking with people -- I take at my local Alliance Francaise now as it's the only place where I live that offers classes such as literature or some more adventurous classes (such as discussing local politics, etc.). I also regularly view French films, listen to French CDs, and regularly read French literature and the French press.
Aug 28th, 2007, 07:19 PM
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UN - don't know what your time is like or budget
I take French lessons by a tutor 3 times a week. These involve reading, conversation, grammar, writing but you tailor the lessons to whatever you want and whatever frequency you want.
It is done through Skype - a free link over the internet where you can speak and hear a live person as well as read and write back and forth like instant messaging - all in real time.
The lady assigned to me is from Paris and is excellent.
I have tried Pimsler and half a dozen others (as well as my high school background) but I have progressed so quickly in the past 5 months. I hardly believe it myself.
The timing is flexible. There are also group discussions that you can participate in a couple of times a week if you wish.
Happy to answer any quesions...I have no financial interest in the company (unfortunately).
www.myplt.com
I take French lessons by a tutor 3 times a week. These involve reading, conversation, grammar, writing but you tailor the lessons to whatever you want and whatever frequency you want.
It is done through Skype - a free link over the internet where you can speak and hear a live person as well as read and write back and forth like instant messaging - all in real time.
The lady assigned to me is from Paris and is excellent.
I have tried Pimsler and half a dozen others (as well as my high school background) but I have progressed so quickly in the past 5 months. I hardly believe it myself.
The timing is flexible. There are also group discussions that you can participate in a couple of times a week if you wish.
Happy to answer any quesions...I have no financial interest in the company (unfortunately).
www.myplt.com
Aug 28th, 2007, 09:25 PM
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I have taken French using various methods. For me, the order of usefulness was:
1. Taking credit classes at a 4 year college
2. Taking credit classes at a community college
3. Pimsleur CDs
4. Alliance Francaise - my instructor talked too much
5. Taking non-credit classes at a community college
6. Weekly French conversation get together - It was for people already fluent in French and want to stay there. Not suitable for people who have not yet reached that stage.
1. Taking credit classes at a 4 year college
2. Taking credit classes at a community college
3. Pimsleur CDs
4. Alliance Francaise - my instructor talked too much
5. Taking non-credit classes at a community college
6. Weekly French conversation get together - It was for people already fluent in French and want to stay there. Not suitable for people who have not yet reached that stage.
Aug 29th, 2007, 10:30 AM
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This is a very interesting thread.
Greg, I was just curious -- what order are those things you listed, best to worst or vice versa.
I should have mentioned that in addition to what I stated, I started with a two year basic college-credit series of standard French classes. This wasn't a long time ago when I was a student, I mean as an adult when I decided I wanted to learn French. That's been about 15+ years now since I started learning French, and the first 2-3 years were the most intense. Since then, it's just trying to keep it up and improve some. I took at a community college, but it was in an area with a lot of French expats who taught in schools and was an excellent school. A lot of the quality of classes are just dependent on the teacher, not whether a regular university or community college. I've been trying to learn Spanish the last few years, and take them at a noncredit community college series of classes, and those teachers are not nearly as good as my French teachers were. Partly because this school just hired teachers mainly because they are native speakers, which doesn't mean you are a good teacher at all, and many of them are not. Some of them don't even know grammar that well.
IN any case, I found that system robjame is using fascinating, I'd never heard of that. That sounds like a great idea for people who don't have classes nearby or for people with real scheduling problems. It is more expensive than I pay for group classes in schools, but not too bad. Now personally, I would always prefer a real class if I had one, because I like the interaction with others, meeting other students, and I think it is useful to listen to many different accents. But this is a good thing to know about. Thanks!
Greg, I was just curious -- what order are those things you listed, best to worst or vice versa.
I should have mentioned that in addition to what I stated, I started with a two year basic college-credit series of standard French classes. This wasn't a long time ago when I was a student, I mean as an adult when I decided I wanted to learn French. That's been about 15+ years now since I started learning French, and the first 2-3 years were the most intense. Since then, it's just trying to keep it up and improve some. I took at a community college, but it was in an area with a lot of French expats who taught in schools and was an excellent school. A lot of the quality of classes are just dependent on the teacher, not whether a regular university or community college. I've been trying to learn Spanish the last few years, and take them at a noncredit community college series of classes, and those teachers are not nearly as good as my French teachers were. Partly because this school just hired teachers mainly because they are native speakers, which doesn't mean you are a good teacher at all, and many of them are not. Some of them don't even know grammar that well.
IN any case, I found that system robjame is using fascinating, I'd never heard of that. That sounds like a great idea for people who don't have classes nearby or for people with real scheduling problems. It is more expensive than I pay for group classes in schools, but not too bad. Now personally, I would always prefer a real class if I had one, because I like the interaction with others, meeting other students, and I think it is useful to listen to many different accents. But this is a good thing to know about. Thanks!
Aug 29th, 2007, 11:54 AM
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Christina,
The order of my previous post was from the most useful (1) "4-year college" to the least useful (6).
There were big differences in the teaching quality of credit vs non-credit classes. Non-credit class instructors, as you mentioned, don't know much about how to teach. Even though non-credit classes cost less than a fifth of credit classes, I don't take them anymore.
The order of my previous post was from the most useful (1) "4-year college" to the least useful (6).
There were big differences in the teaching quality of credit vs non-credit classes. Non-credit class instructors, as you mentioned, don't know much about how to teach. Even though non-credit classes cost less than a fifth of credit classes, I don't take them anymore.
Aug 29th, 2007, 11:54 AM
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my wife had a minor in French but had never really spoken it aoutside of college. When we went to france, she was unable to get her tongue in gear when we first landed (probabley due to jet lag).
After a couple of days in Paris which allowed her to get her ear attuned to the language, we then were off to the countryside where she had to speak french all the time. At the end of a week, she was able to carry on a 2 hour conversation with the station maaster in a small town train station while we awaited our train.
After you have the basics, that's the only way to improve
After a couple of days in Paris which allowed her to get her ear attuned to the language, we then were off to the countryside where she had to speak french all the time. At the end of a week, she was able to carry on a 2 hour conversation with the station maaster in a small town train station while we awaited our train.
After you have the basics, that's the only way to improve
Aug 29th, 2007, 12:25 PM
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For us feerners, What is the cost of a non-credit course at a college?
Christina- you are right that it is pricey but when I totalled up by $450 for Pimsleur...
The hardest thing is getting over your reluctance to talk. The lady I have is from Paris, language student who trained to be a teacher, married to an American who is serving in Iraq. She is now living in Virginia. She know her grammar. Twice a week is normal but it was so much fun. We are now reading a Fred Vargas novel together.
You can try a free lesson....
Christina- you are right that it is pricey but when I totalled up by $450 for Pimsleur...
The hardest thing is getting over your reluctance to talk. The lady I have is from Paris, language student who trained to be a teacher, married to an American who is serving in Iraq. She is now living in Virginia. She know her grammar. Twice a week is normal but it was so much fun. We are now reading a Fred Vargas novel together.
You can try a free lesson....
Aug 29th, 2007, 02:00 PM
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Robjame, Well, your post encouraged me to get of my duff and contact myplt. You may remember that we "chatted' about it on this forum some months ago, but I never followed through. Glad to see that you did. Bravo! The program sounded good to me, but at one point I was hesitant sign on to this new company over the internet. Your recommendation, however, has put it over the top. I'm hoping to take a lesson within the next few days, all in preparation for upcoming trips this fall and next spring. Tous mes remerciements, EJ 
Aug 29th, 2007, 02:30 PM
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robjame, this really sounds interesting.
I have used most of the methods mentioned on here, mostly in the past 5 years. I had studied French in school (high school and college) many years ago, when it was ALL grammar, very little conversation. I tried Berlitz (spent a fortune, don't do it!) Alliance Francaise, which was just OK (the teachers were good, but not enough speaking time. I bought the whole set of Pimsleur tapes, which I thought were terrific as a way to learn phrasing, etc. Of course, I had a good background, so Pimsleur was easy for me.
I still use the tapes frequently, as a review.
I think my main problem with the private lessons robjame is taking is doing it using a computer, the instant messenger, and all that. I am a "older person", you can tell! But it certainly sounds interesting. Do your lessons last one hour, or more?
I have used most of the methods mentioned on here, mostly in the past 5 years. I had studied French in school (high school and college) many years ago, when it was ALL grammar, very little conversation. I tried Berlitz (spent a fortune, don't do it!) Alliance Francaise, which was just OK (the teachers were good, but not enough speaking time. I bought the whole set of Pimsleur tapes, which I thought were terrific as a way to learn phrasing, etc. Of course, I had a good background, so Pimsleur was easy for me.
I still use the tapes frequently, as a review.
I think my main problem with the private lessons robjame is taking is doing it using a computer, the instant messenger, and all that. I am a "older person", you can tell! But it certainly sounds interesting. Do your lessons last one hour, or more?
Aug 29th, 2007, 02:49 PM
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I am loving this post. I was thinking of signing up at the Alliance Francaise here in Chicago but getting there is challenging due to work schedule.
I do listen/study various CDS (Learn French in your car, Michel Thomas) and while they are very helpful, I noticed that when I was in Paris in March, I had difficulty understanding most of what was being said around me. I eavesdropped on a conversations in cafes and restaurants which proved to be futile.
I also think that if you have never studied French before, the CDS are not helpful. I had studied some in high school so had some foundation - and when I listen to the tapes, I wonder if anyone without some background could really benefit from them.
This past trip, I could throw a few very basic sentences together in restaurants and other such areas, but even after practicing a lot on my own before I went, I got stage fright when it came right down to speaking French to real French people! "Ils parle trop rapidement pour moi."
So - Christina's comments and Robjames suggestion of his resources are just what I needed to rethink my approach to improving my very poor, very rudimentary, but well intended, french speaking skills. Thanks
I do listen/study various CDS (Learn French in your car, Michel Thomas) and while they are very helpful, I noticed that when I was in Paris in March, I had difficulty understanding most of what was being said around me. I eavesdropped on a conversations in cafes and restaurants which proved to be futile.
I also think that if you have never studied French before, the CDS are not helpful. I had studied some in high school so had some foundation - and when I listen to the tapes, I wonder if anyone without some background could really benefit from them.
This past trip, I could throw a few very basic sentences together in restaurants and other such areas, but even after practicing a lot on my own before I went, I got stage fright when it came right down to speaking French to real French people! "Ils parle trop rapidement pour moi."
So - Christina's comments and Robjames suggestion of his resources are just what I needed to rethink my approach to improving my very poor, very rudimentary, but well intended, french speaking skills. Thanks
Aug 29th, 2007, 03:24 PM
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Hi Sue
Yes they are an hour though sometimes we extend (at my option) to an hour and a half and even two. In truth after an hour I am tired. It is still a mental effort and I still (mostly) translate everything back to English.
I started by emailing David who owns the thing. He phoned me back and we chatted (in English). He asked me about my background and what I wanted. He asked what time zone I was in and said he had a tutor in the same time zone which makes it easy for scheduling.
He explained about Skype - download for free, buy a set of headphones with mike for about $20. I am sure that there is someone who can help you with this but it is pretty simple. You do need something better than dial-up.
He checked with the tutor, she contacted me by email and we made a "date" for my free lesson.
She is a young lady from France, married to a US military person currently in Iraq and lives in Virginia. She attended university in the US so her English is perfect.
What do we do?
We talk for about 20 minutes and then do grammar (I now know my verbs!), I read and translate. She corrects my pronunciation and errors.
We use http://www.onethinginafrenchday.com/
for this cause it is at my level. But you can design your lessons however you want.
Our conversation is often centered on food (surprise). She is now in France for a vacation, continues the lessons and sends blogs and pictures which form the meat of our lessons now.
She sends me "devoirs" after the lesson which I return by email.
There is no money between you and the tutor. That is all done by the company.When you set up your next lesson, she tells the company, they send a confirmation to you, after the lesson you get a confoirmation from the company and then they submit the amount on your Visa.
There is a place on their website where you can review all the lesson times and charges.
Important: There is no commitment beyond your next lesson. No packages or number of lesson you have to pay for, etc. When you agree to the next lesson. of course, you agreee to that one but you can cancel anytime, or go on holiday anytime.
You instantly write back and forth while your lesson is on. For instance we were talking about the bears at pour cottage, I forgot the word, she texts "ours = bear". The beauty of this is that I can print this texting conversation after the lesson.
They run a conversation group a couple times a week for different levels and languages - $15 for an hour and a half. A tutor moderates this. I will try this as well after my France trip in the fall. I think it is 3 or 4 students and a tutor.
Probably way more than you wanted to know. I started in March and have no complaints at all. [just don't overload my tutor! ask for a different one LOL]
Yes they are an hour though sometimes we extend (at my option) to an hour and a half and even two. In truth after an hour I am tired. It is still a mental effort and I still (mostly) translate everything back to English.
I started by emailing David who owns the thing. He phoned me back and we chatted (in English). He asked me about my background and what I wanted. He asked what time zone I was in and said he had a tutor in the same time zone which makes it easy for scheduling.
He explained about Skype - download for free, buy a set of headphones with mike for about $20. I am sure that there is someone who can help you with this but it is pretty simple. You do need something better than dial-up.
He checked with the tutor, she contacted me by email and we made a "date" for my free lesson.
She is a young lady from France, married to a US military person currently in Iraq and lives in Virginia. She attended university in the US so her English is perfect.
What do we do?
We talk for about 20 minutes and then do grammar (I now know my verbs!), I read and translate. She corrects my pronunciation and errors.
We use http://www.onethinginafrenchday.com/
for this cause it is at my level. But you can design your lessons however you want.
Our conversation is often centered on food (surprise). She is now in France for a vacation, continues the lessons and sends blogs and pictures which form the meat of our lessons now.
She sends me "devoirs" after the lesson which I return by email.
There is no money between you and the tutor. That is all done by the company.When you set up your next lesson, she tells the company, they send a confirmation to you, after the lesson you get a confoirmation from the company and then they submit the amount on your Visa.
There is a place on their website where you can review all the lesson times and charges.
Important: There is no commitment beyond your next lesson. No packages or number of lesson you have to pay for, etc. When you agree to the next lesson. of course, you agreee to that one but you can cancel anytime, or go on holiday anytime.
You instantly write back and forth while your lesson is on. For instance we were talking about the bears at pour cottage, I forgot the word, she texts "ours = bear". The beauty of this is that I can print this texting conversation after the lesson.
They run a conversation group a couple times a week for different levels and languages - $15 for an hour and a half. A tutor moderates this. I will try this as well after my France trip in the fall. I think it is 3 or 4 students and a tutor.
Probably way more than you wanted to know. I started in March and have no complaints at all. [just don't overload my tutor! ask for a different one LOL]
Aug 29th, 2007, 03:38 PM
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Thanks so much for your time and your insightful replies. Robjame, I, too, am interested in your turoring plan and will be in touch to ask more. You all have offered wonderful and much-appreciated suggestions.
Aug 29th, 2007, 03:38 PM
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robjame, you said that the cost for the conversation group was $15 for an hour and a half. What do you pay for each hour with the individual tutor? I tried the FAQ link on that myplt site, but it would never load for me.
Aug 29th, 2007, 04:23 PM
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Just a note on the Pimsleur CD's -- you might check to see if your library has them. My husband and I have completed the "Conversational French" set and are about 8 lessons into the "French II" set. We also have "French III" on hold.
I'm not sure the Pimsleur CD's would be that valuable if I didn't have some college French (preceded by four years of high school Latin). Pimsleur has no written text, and sometimes I just have to know what the word I'm saying looks like. The about.com site is useful for that if I can come close to the correct spelling of the word.
Still, I don't expect Pimsleur to carry us much beyond "traveler's French." We tried to watch a French film without subtitles last evening and were absolutely lost. Pouvez-vous parler plus lentement, s'il vous plait???
I'm not sure the Pimsleur CD's would be that valuable if I didn't have some college French (preceded by four years of high school Latin). Pimsleur has no written text, and sometimes I just have to know what the word I'm saying looks like. The about.com site is useful for that if I can come close to the correct spelling of the word.
Still, I don't expect Pimsleur to carry us much beyond "traveler's French." We tried to watch a French film without subtitles last evening and were absolutely lost. Pouvez-vous parler plus lentement, s'il vous plait???
