DMBTraveler

As has become sort of a tradition, every year we try to bring in the New Year in a not yet visited country. For 2013 we brought in the New Year in Zurich, Switzerland and to our surprise it was done with not much fanfare from the locals.

No 10, 9, 8 …. Countdown or New Year Ball Drop. However, a very nice fireworks display (which was about 20 minutes late) and lots of fun into the early morning hours at music venues set up along a park near downtown. This was all fine with us as our traveling is to experience new and different things.

Six months later, I am finding out that our trip to Switzerland had a few more expenses than expected. Just the other day I received a “Traffic Law Violation” letter from Stadt Zurich, Stadtpolizei that somewhere in our travels around Switzerland I went 6 kmh over the speed limit and it is going to cost me $129.00 plus $65 in administrative fees that Sixt Rental Car is trying to charge me.

What I find interesting about the process is that as stated on the back of the letter I received “The City Police Authority Of Zurich does not grant access to records (incl any available photographs). However, the rental car company must provide to the police information about the person who rented the car. This is fair but should the driver not also have access to evidence that is the basis of the charges?

I guess if you get a traffic law violation in Switzerland then you are guilty as charged without due process. This is not the type of process I would expect from a country with a free society. I wonder how the locals deal with such situations.

For me, paying a traffic fine is not the issue it is the principle of the process. In all my travels this is only the second time I have had to deal with traffic law violations which is not bad. The other time I had to give an “Erick Estrada” cop in Cancun a US$20 bill, part of his wage enhancement package from harassing tourists.

It would be interesting to hear what other run in with authority stories others have had. These type of situations are a stain on a country no matter how beautiful it is.

For me, Switzerland will now join Mexico and Canada as places I am reluctant to spend my vacation time or dollars especially when there are so many other places on the planet to see and enjoy without feeling ripped off or cheated.

Ingo

I think Switzerland will survive without your Dollars.

It's pretty common (in Germany, too) that people who have to deal with traffic speed fines hire a lawyer who gets access to the files.

alanRow

You better avoid Italy - ZTL and LEZs which are guaranteed to catch out people who don't know the ropes

kerouac

In fact, cross all of Europe off your list, because cameras are now in use just about everywhere and fines are charged internationally.

Are you given a souvenir DVD of your own traffic violations when you get ticketed in your own country?

janisj

DMB: I think you mostly post trip reports and don't read other's posts so much. If you hung around the Europe forums much you'd see threads just about every week re tickets/violations . . . In Italy (Especially in Italy), in Germany, in Switzerland, just about everywhere. So your boycott list should probably cover most of western Europe.

Mostly they are >>I got a ticket in the mail - what should I do?<< and seldom are they >>I am boycotting such and such a country<<

Tulips

Switzerland is notorious for speeding tickets. The Netherlands is pretty bad too; if you drive only a little faster than allowed, you will get a ticket.
Why is that a stain on a country?

Tulips

By the way, you'll get a ticket in Belgium too - and no photographic evidence is offered, unless you are willing to contest the ticket in a court. This option is offered with the ticket. You either pay up, or you make it into a case, where you will have to turn up in the local court, or send a lawyer.

Cowboy1968

In Germany, you usually get a print-out snapshot with your ticket in the mail.
Nevertheless, this is highly irrelevant for deciding whether you get due process or not.
You don't get your "fair trial" with the Executive, but with the Judicative.
So, if you had not been in Zurich at that time, or if you think that you have driven always within the speed limit, you contest the Zurich Police Authority's claim in court. WHere the police will have the burden of proof and will produce, for example, photo evidence and evidence that the speeding camera had received regular checks and was working properly.
As the speeding camera usually are set to give a little bonus for odometers not being 100pct precise, the 6kph speeding will probably have been you driving 60kph within city limits where 50 kph is the norm.

bilboburgler

Ah but who told you Switzerland was a free society? They have as high a level of guns as the US but don't go around using them, there must be a reason. In this case it is all down to the little policeman in their heads. I like working with the Swiss because they do what they say and if they have caught you with a speed camera they have caught you, why do you need to see the same picture as they have already seen?

Still an interesting divergence of cultures.

jamikins

Why do you think you are entitled to what you consider due process in another country? I really don't understand why some people think the rest of the world should follow the same rules and laws as your home country...

sofarsogood

I would suggest you visit the UK and speed to your heart's content.

Evidently foreign drivers of UK registered vehicles, or foreign registered cars, are much harder to identify, and are rarely prosecuted.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/foreign-drivers/

What you save in fines you can spend in shops/restuarants - it's a win-win situation - what's not to like? Just remember to drive on the left.

hetismij2

Don't believe HonestJohn. I know people who have ended up with fines from the UK.
As for his claim that speed cameras are less common in Europe - he obviously hasn't visited Europe for several decennia.
Yes there are also on the spot fines here, but plenty of speed cameras to catch you too - as Fodorites continue to discover.

Dukey1

Your "due process" was pretty simple: you broke the law and now you pay.

NYCFoodSnob

Well, allow me to lend a sympathetic ear, since I tend to drive a lot.

Local governments have found a way to squeeze more money from the folks on the road, and tourists in particular get caught up in the mix. Thanks, to Mayor Bloomberg, public driving in my Manhattan neighborhood has changed dramatically since the financial disaster of 2008. The changes include cameras at intersections and no free street parking on Sundays (a perk we had enjoyed for many decades).

One could argue that in countries like Italy, controlling auto traffic in and around city-centers is a noble cause. Not only is the air slightly more breathable, it takes longer for pollution to dirty the historical buildings.

Speed is another issue, but what a great way for a community to pull in more money. Why not "tax" folks who drive through, when you can punish them for going 5-mph above the limit? Perhaps it saves a life or two, but I suspect mo' money is the primary goal.

And, yes, who wants to come home from a great vacation and be greeted by a $200 traffic ticket that you can't prove belongs to you? That sucks, but I think it's the new travel reality that's here to stay. Tourists need to plan and prepare for this, if they plan on renting a car.

bilboburgler

My experience with the Swiss is that if they said you were speeding then you were. Note that it is worse for citizens in some cantons as the fines are proportionate to the individuals income,

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1216214

you, as a foreigner, got hit with a base charge.

quokka

I wonder why people think they do not have to follow rules when they are abroad. You drove too fast, you got fined, just like anyone else would. Why should they grant you an exception from the rule just because you are a tourist?

DMBTraveler

Ingo,

I'm sure with all the "Swiss Bank Accounts" you are correct but their chocolate industry will suffer deeply

DMBTraveler

kerouac,

Yes, and some of them are pretty funny. I think for $129 I should get one from Switzerland too

greg

I think this is another area where the environment is changing. We can continue to behave the old way relevant to the old environment or change our behavior to match the new environment. In case of driving, even the old timers are not immune from the new realities of traffic rule enforcement realities unless they too adjust.

I suspect that these cameras bring in enough revenue to cover the installation and the operating cost, so there is no lack of fund to install these devices.

I now assume that the traffic rules are strictly enforced and that I would get ticketed even with the awareness. I now include the estimated traffic fines modulated by the probability of getting ticketed into the car rental cost estimates. Others think this is silly since they are so smart they would never get caught or that they are experienced since they have been traveling many years before without being caught.

Just as online booking replaced TA, ATM replaced traveler checks, market based airfare replaced fixed pricing, ubiquitous machine based traffic enforcement is the new reality.

My two cents.

kerouac

<i>I suspect that these cameras bring in enough revenue to cover the installation and the operating cost, so there is no lack of fund to install these devices.</i>

I just do not understand this kind of thinking. The point is not at all to bring in revenue but to spend less for emergency services and hospital care. Since France got serious about speeding and other violation (including alcohol), road fatalities have dropped from 16,445 in 1970 to 3,645 in 2012 (just imagine how many non-fatal accidents that means!)


And I'm sure you can imagine that there are about 4 times more vehicles on the road as in 1970.