How Safe Is It In Kiev?

TechCTZN:
I'm not Asian, but we had neither qualms nor problems on a recent independent visit....Kiev is trying hard to become world class city and is succeding on several levels. We found the populace to be friendly and helpful...my command of Russian and/or Ukrainan is less than fair...more people could converse in English than I expected. We stayed at The Hotel Rus which is in a much better location than The Dnipro..taxis available all day and night..no problems. We filled almost a full week in Kiev and enjoyed it very much...saw about everything one would want to see in that time. Food was very good and reasonable in Russia, Belarus and Ukraine...we saw many Asians about...I don't think there's anything to worry about...just be alert as you must be everywhere on this troubled planet of ours...highly recommend The Rus...5 minutes from the marvelous Metro, too. If you wish to have some restaurant recommendations, let me know, directly or on this thread.

Stu Tower rozstu1@aol.com (Los Angeles)

Tech:

We did not use any tour agency and found our way around nicely...but, at The Rus, they can connect you to approved agents. I would trust them, as we saw several small groups avail themselves of that service. (Food at the Rus buffets was excellent..free breakfast buffet....)

stu (Here are my Belarus, Kiev pics which may give you some idea of the surroundings...scroll tghrough the Belarus portion if you're not interested....and go on to Kiev.)

http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/BelarusUkraineKiev2008#

Tech...set on "slide show", sit back and relax...

stu

Hi Stu,

Thank you for all the information! I am greatly relieved to hear that I am not entering a dangerous place! Hollywood sucks in that respect. It is great to hear that there is a familiar atmosphere with the English speaking and the Asians running around. I would love to hear your recommendations for restaurants. I also wanted to find out if it is recommended to stay in during the night.

Thanks!

Techctzn

tech:

I also wanted to find out if it is recommended to stay in during the night.

No, just stay in and around major squares and people are walkng around all night.

The restaurants that we llked are King David's, just across the street from the Palats Sportu Metro Station which is an easy walk from the Rus Hotel...concierge will direct you.
Tasty Gergian food at a reasonable price.

Another was our favorite...Opanas in the heart of Taras Schevchenko Park...it's a cab ride..just have the hotel write the name on a card for the driver. Thee are plenty of cabs around later, too. If you're unsure about safety as you seem to be, just have lunch at Opanas...superb, authentic Ukrainian ambience and food.

Another, if you're tired of Ukrainian/Russian food, is an Italian place which also serves Ukrainian and pretty fair pizzas, excellent full salads...it,too, is walkable from the
Rus, or a short cab ride..."Il Patio" on 5/13 Naberejno-Khreschatickaya Street...tel: 501-74-64..it's half a block from the start of Kiev's main street "Khreschatik"..a great street to stroll down..major street and a slew of restaurants, too. AND as I sid above, The Rus has an excellent restaurant open for lunch and dinner, and of course, the included buffet for breakfast...an experience!

tech

The Kiev metro is much like Moscows...beautiful stations and easy to get anywhere in town for a pittance. Get a subway map first thing...and you can get anywhere. We particularly liked the Podil district around Kontraktova Square, Andriivsky Street leading from St. Andrews down the so-called Andrew's Descent into Podil..colorful market on the street, especially Sunday.
The colorful Lavra monastery in Pechersk district, The museum (*outdoor and indoor) of The Great Patriotic War is nearby, and Babi Yar park, site of the infamous massacre of September 1941. Kiev is a city of beautful onion dome churches throughout. The Golden Gate to the city is worth a visit also. Get a good guide book, and off you go. YOu'll be safe..just be alert as you would be anywhere.

stu t.

Thank you for all your advice Stu!

How is it around the Central Square in the middle of Kiev?

Techctzn

Known as Independece Square where aklkl the big rallies are held..after the revolution this place rocked...it is along the main street in town Khreshchatik..[people all out late strolling...should be no problems..just keep your wits about you...if you got a look at my pix, K street shows up well.

stu t

Thank you again Stu. Is there another hotel that you would recommend close to or on Khreshchatik?

The fairly new Khreschatik Hotel on K street might be a good bet for you. I still would prefer the Rus which is a nice 10-minute walk to K street.
http://www.hotels-kiev.com/kreschatik-price.htm

stu

Hi Stu,

What are you thoughts on apartments in Kiev? The agency I was thinking of is UA Rent Kiev. It was mentioned in the Lonely Planet guide to Ukraine. The prices are good and the services are reasonable.

Thanks,

Techctzn

I recommend the Sunflower B&B - it's just off Independence Square and the prices are very reasonable. It's clean and the service is good. The post-Soviet hotels are pretty rundown but they are cheap.
www.sunflowerhotel.kiev.ua/

The rentals are fine but you've got to look at the location on the map. Some agencies are a bit of a hassle to deal with (wiring money, etc.).

Kiev is safe enough but I would exercise extra caution on the Metro and when walking by large groups of kids drinking on the street. There are unfortunately hate crime incidents but if you really want to visit, it should not deter you. You can also check with the Embassy to see if there are any demonstrations going on -- best to steer far clear of these.

Upon further reflection, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to ride the Metro unless you read Cyrillic. The signage is not very good and unless you can figure it out very quickly, you will look very lost which will make you look like an excellent target. Taxi cabs are so cheap -- 30 grv within the center (<$4) and 40-50 between the center and the Lavra ($6). It's your call though.

Thank you for the advice. Would there be issues like you described in the business districts or populated places in Kiev? I seems like from what you describe issues occur where people are really not meant to go or just out of the way places? I intend to stay in very populated streets in view of the public and to stay incognito as much as possible. My safety is paramount.

tech

If you decide on an apt., please be careful...all on the internet is not what it may seem to be. I learned the hard way...an apt. from hell, which made us switch to a hotel (The Rus) after one miserable night.
If you live in a big city as I do L.A., what is described above pertains to any sizeable city anywhere. I repeat, you're as safe in Kiev if you stay alert, as in any similar sized city anywhere in the world. The police presence there is overwhelming...the Ukrainians put the protection of tourists at the top of their "to do" lists...the last thing they want is a soiled reputation in that regard. Most frmer SSR's usually get a bad rap, mostly undeserved, IMO.

Stop spooking yourself, Tech...you'll enjoy this beautiful city and will leave it unscathed. My word...for what it's worth.

stu t.

Thanks Stu for the assurances!

I am sorry about the experiences that you went through with the apartment. I just wanted to explore options. What company did you go through for the apartment? The company I was thinking of is UA Rent Kiev. It was in the Lonely Planet guide.

Thanks!

Techctzn

Ok, well to each his own. Lots of people around does not guarantee safety. Again, I'd recommend staying off the Metro and staying away from groups of kids drinking and any demonstrations. I wouldn't count on the police too much either..."the Ukrainians put the protection of tourists at the top of their "to do" lists..." I disagree, their own pocketbooks are their main concern...

Also, take another look at Sunflower. I realized in my post it sounded like I was saying it was a post-Soviet hotel -- it is not! Very modern for Kyiv.

Again I'm sure you will be fine, but I think it's important to take appropriate precautions.

Thank you for the advice. I don't think there is much tourist value or interest in the Metro, drunk kids, or protests. I would stay away from those types of places and I live in Honolulu!

Still deciding between hotel or appartment...the difference is for me is cost and value. Stu, did the Rus provide cell phone rentals? How about Internet access with a computer?

Say, what are the prices like there for food, clothing, souvenirs, etc? Are they overpriced like any other tourist destination?

Tech

I've told you all I could... My experiences in Russia and the Ukraine go back to 1968..I can only give you my observations.
No, I did not use an agency for the apartment.

Do whatever you want, with your jangled nerves, as you traipse through Kiev...that'll be sure to spoil your "holiday"...I told you repeatedly to be wary..but don't overdo your vigilance. I hope you have a good time, without peering around every corner to see if the Ukrainan monster man is waiting for you. How ridiculous..and don't shy away from the police, they're there to help, regardless of what anyone says. You be the judge....that's all I can add, Tech...write when you get back...rozstu1@aol.com

stu

Hi Stu,

Thank you for all your advice. I believe experience is a good teacher and since you have had extensive experience my nerves have significantly been calmed. Also, after extensive reading of people's opinions, research, and first hand calling various venus in Ukraine your observations tend to have veracity. I will definitely write to you about my experiences!

Thanks again!

Techctzn

Stu, I have lived in Kyiv for several years. I'm sure during the Soviet Union the police were vigilant towards protecting tourists. They wouldn't want bad publicity. These days, it is common for people of color to be approached by the police with hostility, demanded to show their passports, and asked intrusive questions.

Your level of warnings are appropriate for white tourists. For the most part, there is just petty crime, pickpocketing and the like which in the grand scheme of things is not a big deal and happens in most cities. However, random violence happens to blacks, Asians, and others. Just recently a Mexican diplomat was attacked with a broken beer bottle right downtown, for absolutely no reason other than prejudice. I'm sure Tech will have a good visit but it is relevant to know that there are (rare) hate crimes in Kyiv.

Prices in Kyiv vary dramatically... there are very fancy restaurants (where the quality of the decor usually does not match the quality of the food) but also many reasonably priced ones, especially with the dollar appreciated against the griv.

Souvenirs are cheap too - 100 griv for a nesting doll, maybe more if it is a large one. People seem to like those Ukrainian soccer scarves, maybe 40 griv for one. Most sellers on Andrivsky spoosk speak English and will give you a discount if you buy multiple items. A tourist t-shirt on the street should cost 40 or 50 griv. Anything in the stores is not worth buying because it's all imported from the west and you will pay much more due to the markup for taxes, shipping, etc.

Orange:

So you are a Kievite...that should solve Tech's problem about safety. As a fellow Fodorite, why not extend your hand in fellowship and offer to hhelp make his visit a safe and joyous one. I'm sure he'd appreiate it. I hava already done all I can possibly do including suggestions for restos, hotels, etc...But for giving out pesonal assistance, I know I would surely do the same, as would many of our Fosorites. Problems solved.

Thank you in advance, on behalf of Tech.
By the way, do you mind telling us what you're doing in Kiev? My dad (1900) and family were born there, in the Podil district, near what is now Kontraktova Square (Ploschad)
Of course they left in troubling times during the period 1912-1914.

Can we refer all Fodorites who are planning to visit Kiev, to you? It would be of great help to have someone on the ground therein. I wish I had know on my most recent visit in October, last. I'm sure you were familiar with all of the places shown in my pix, above. We did some genealogical gymnastics in Belarus, as well (see pix), finding my wife's mom's birthplace near Brest.Very emotional, as was Babi Yar where my family lost dozens of those who did not leave for the west in prior years.

Best wishes...
stu tower (see above for my email address in L.A.if you care to write)

Please excuse typos....poor eyesight this time of night...

st

Actually I didn't have much to add in the way of restaurant suggestions -- the ones you listed above are great. Re hotels I always, always recommend the Sunflower, I can't think of anywhere else in Kyiv that I would stay. (Other than the Hyatt, but it's way out of my price range!)

Sure, anyone going to Kyiv can ask me questions. I don't check the board every day but I like to come here at least once a week and see what adventures other travelers are having!

Many of the places you visited are new to me though I would like to go someday.. I've mostly done Ukraine (Lviv, Odessa, Crimea) and Central/Western Europe while I've been living here.

I hope I was not too argumentative re: the safety issue. I just think an ounce of prevention can go a long way in ensuring an enjoyable trip. I am so saddened by the rare incidents I hear about, and wish the best for Fodors travelers and everyone else.

Orange:

I hope I was not too argumentative <i/>

Not at all...it was helpful for Tech to get slightly different opinions. I think we both contributed the way Fodorites always should...

Are you working there?
stu

Thank you both for your comments. I am largely relieved to know that Kiev is relatively safe. I heard from another guy who is ethnically mixed but looks Asian and he said that did not have a hard time there in Kiev with racial issues. Since the weather outlook seems to be cold, I intend to wear a long coat, khaki colored, a big hat, a scarf, and dark sunglasses. I should be fairly incognito to anyone looking.

I will check out the restaurants mentioned.

Thank you Orange for the cost of things especially for the souvenirs. Are the street vendors easy to deal with?

I ended up booking with Hotel Rus. From Stu's description, it should be a good hotel. There are a lot of positive reviews about the place from many other people. The Sunflower is nice however it is a bit out of my price range.

My trip is close. I will be in Kiev on April 3 to 8.

Thank you both!

Josh

Josh

as I mentioned above, you can start out with the overabundant included breakfast buffet at Rus ...and you'll find dinner prices are also very moderate. Do get to Opanas and King David's..two of the better offerings in Kiev.(Rethink your incognito outfit..you'll stand out like a retired Cold War operative)..some day I'll tell you about my Cold "faux" War experiences...a mockery, nothing less)

Enjoy it all...

sstu

Tower - I really enjoyed your pictures. My father was from Belarus, but as far as I can tell, his town no longer exists. The town had a name something like Duboi. My mother however is from Lviv and I have been wanting to go there. I even know the street address and was able to find the street on a Lviv map. Your pictures give me renewed motivation to try to make the trip.

Thank you Basingstoke...it's a lot easier to send you the synagogue list by email..rozstu1@ol.com

Here are the Russian pix that go before the Belarus/Kiev pix..this was my third visit to Russia, twice during SSR days, as far east as Uzbek SSR (scanned pre-digital, of course)

The Russian portion of the Oct-Nov '08 Belarus,Kiev trip was a Viking river trip on the Volga..after which we independently went off to Bel and Kiev.

http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/Russia2008#

and the scanned old shots of Uzbekistan and Suzdal:

http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/MapUSSR

http://picasaweb.google.com/stuarttower/SceneOfBukharaSamarkand85#

Stu Tower (I'm in L.A.)

Basingstoke:

Best to view the digitals by "slide show"...the scanned also, but you can magnify them by clicking on the magnifying glass icon...Josh, don't mean to hijack here...please forgive...
stu

Basingstoke...I took your suggestion and it worked...posted Synagogue List on your Rome Photo thread...

stu

Hi Stu,

No worries. Thank you for the advice. I decided on a black jacket, jeans, hat, and waterproof shoes. I also bought some thick thermals. It says the high will be 53 and the low 37. Never been in that kind of weather...not taking chances.

Josh

PS. Please check you email for a message from me.

basingstoke2 - I highly recommend visiting Lviv (didn't make it to Kiev). To encourage you to move it up your must-see list, my pix are here: http://kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/264391 (ninth gallery).

Nice trip report and photos. That was quite a trip. I'll make time to look at the others too. How long is the Krakow - Lviv journey by train?

Well, when I did it it took about five hours, but bahn.de is now showing seven to nine! (You need to spell Lviv as Lvov.) I don't think the scenery was especially exciting, but I spent a good part of the trip talking with the young man sharing my compartment.

Hello!

I would like to report that Kiev is ABSOLUTELY safe!

The reports, Hollywood, and rumors are WRONG!

Heck, I would like to say that Kiev is safer than where I am here in Honolulu! There has been scary stuff going on here on a weekly, if not daily basis!

Techctzn

i don't know anything about travel for minorities going to kiev, but i've heard and seen (on youtube) numerous incidents of xenophobic, neo-nazi, skinhead-type groups attacking "foreign-looking people in moskow. whether this happens in other russian cities, i do not know. sometimes "white" people are less knowledgeable or concerned about these kinds of things because they wouldn't experience it in europe. on youtube there's a video of a nonwhite medical student in moskow who feels like he's a prisoner on campus because, especially around the time of adolph hitler's birthday, he is required not to go off campus because the usual threat of violence against nonwhites by neo-nazi russian men is particularly elevated during that time. use your judgement!

FYI - Kiev is in Ukraine, not Russia. Not that there aren't Ukrainians who would like to be Russian, but let's get the geography right.

Thank you thursdaysd!

First, I am Asian. That says a lot right there.
Second, Kiev is in Ukraine. There is a joke in Ukraine. Ukrainians joke that they thank God that they are not born Russians.
Third, I would never visit Russia. There are too many restrictions to travel and definitely higher chance of violence. Plus, they are not as amenable to the United States in general. On the other hand, Ukraine is.
Forth, I ran around the populated portions of Kiev during the day and night and even took the metro and no one bothered me. I actually was more of a bother to people because I got lost.

It takes experience and I am just sharing my experiences.

Tech

My good friend works for the State Department and just learned she will be assigned to Kiev in 2010 -- so I will be scouring this site for information for her! Sounds great so far...her other posts have been in Asia (Ho Chi Minh City and Tokyo), so this will be a big departure for her...and another completely new language to learn; argh!

I really envy her! It would be so cool to work and live there!

I was there only four days but it was an unforgettable four days!

What do you want to know? I'll try to help you based on my experience there.

Tech

Hi!
Im living in Kiev for more than one year and half so i could be a little help if you want. I am Romanian but i could say Kiev is far better than Bucharest, there is no comparison you can make. Is a splendid city, for its views, churches, parks etc. I couldn't say much about people cause i don't interact too much with them. One thing you can be sure... there are plenty who want to cheat you and plenty that would help you. Still it remains a great place to spend you vacantion.
I will be checking this site from now on... who knows? there will probably be someone that needs an advice
Lumi

Lumi,

I am toying with coming to Ukraine for a week to trace my Jewish roots - My family is from Berdichev, and Romanovka. I am not sure if I am traveling with someone else or alone.. I am concerned about a female travel alone?

MomDD

We did just that in October...it was my third trip into Russia (twice during the SSR days, as far east as Uzbekistan (Uzbek SSR at the time)....and after a Volga River cruise, Moscow to St. Petersburg, we went off to seek out Roz's (my wife) mother's birth village in western Belarus...thence to my family's origins in the Kiev municipal areas. Roz was able to see the remains of the village (25 miles south of Brest) where her mom was born (a few years prior we had visited the Polish town where her mother lived as a teenager before emigrating to Canada in 1927). My family began leaving Kiev and vicinity in 1912-1914 (it was Tsarist Russia then, of course).

Due to the nature of my "work" I constantly seek out the remnants of Jewry wherever I travel. I have a list of over 100 synagogues/cemeteries worldwide which I have personally visited over the decades past.

I did not write a full trip report for this past Russian/Belarus/Ukraine visit...but my many pics (even going back to some earlier 1980's Russian visits also) which may be of interest to you and your planning, are in the posts above, as well as my email address...which is also listed on my profile page. I would be pleased to help you out in any way I can. I see you're from the OC; we are in L.A.

Pics are best viewed by slide show, although the captions tend to get lost that way...so seen as individual pics preserves the captions...as for the old scanned pics, also better as indivudual..and clicking on the magnifying glass icon enlarges quite clearly. You will see current pics of Moscow, St. Petersburg and Kiev synagogues therein. The Babi Yar pics can be painful if you're familiar with those days of infamy.

Best wishes,

Stuart Tower rozstu1@aol.com

"I am concerned about a female travel alone?" - I'm female and I didn't find it a problem. See wilhelmswords.com/eur2006/index.html for my trip which included Crimea and western Ukraine (Chernivtsi to Kolomiya to Lviv - didn't get to Kiev but really liked Lviv). Pix at kwilhelm.smugmug.com/Travel/264391

Stuart - I will be emailing you.

I recently received photos of where my Great Grandparents are buried in NJ - and hope to visit there as well. I will not be able to go to Ukraine in Oct as I had wanted to due to the short notice and hard time getting FF miles to work. I played with it last night. So am now looking towards the spring.

I think I will be going back east during that time in Oct and meet up with cousin who has a lot of information on our heritage - as well as going to the area where my family lived.

This is all very new to me. I find it 'interesting' that I have been extremely interested in Jewish history and the holocaust and teaching my 12 year old about it - never knowing until the last few months that my Grandfather's Mother was Jewish from Ukraine as her parents etc. My Mom's Dad is from Poland and I am exploring that side as well.

I am only recently familiar with Babi Yar.

I will email you over the weekend. Thank you so much!
Dawn

For Lumi, because she is Rommanian, just like me

Lumi, profit de faptul ca esti romanca si vreau sa te rog sa imi spui si mie 1.cum este miev-ul la inceputul lui noiembrie, ma refer din punct de vedere al vremii,2. daca ai calatorit cu trenul de la bucuresti la kiev si 3.ca roman, avand in vedere ca sunt ceva neintelegeri politice cu vecinii nostri ucrainieni, daca sunt ceva probleme pe la granita si in mediul urban (ma refer aici la sicane din partea politistilor etc.)

Sarut mana anticipat pt raspunsuri

interesting and mulit-lingual thread!

for those who are interested in the Ukraine, conde nast's travel newletter is featuring Lviv [aka Lvov] this week. no mention of safety issues so I guess they are not expecting to be sued any time soon.

I know no romanian, but a knowledge of italian and frequent exposure via my "children" to a moldavian pop group who sing in Romanian gives me a faint idea of what mr. bek is saying to Lumi. any chance of a translation so I can see if I'm on the right lines?

regards, ann

I walked around the center of Kiev for a couple of days in the early 1990s. No problem.

Thank you Ann - I will check it out. I still need to email Stu!

For annhig

I wrote to Lumi in Romanian because I asked her three questions that are mainly related to my citizenship.

1.How is Kiev weather early in November?
2.Have she ever been with the Bucharest-Kiev train and how safe is it?
3.Taking in consideration some political problems that have occurred recently between Romania and Ukraine, I asked her if there might be some problems for me with the police at the Ukrainian border or in Kiev.

And by the way, the Moldavian pop group is probably Ozone

thank you, mr_bek, for satisfying my insatiable curiousity. I'd guessed a bit of that. the group is indeed Ozone, who I gather were very big in Italy at one time.

my son can still sing all the lyrics with a perfect accent but very little idea of what he's singing about!

if you get there, I hope that you enjoy Kiev.

Well, questions 1 and 2 at least are of interest to non-Romanians, too, so I hope that lumi will answer in English, since that is the lingua franca of this board.

I was in kiev 2 weeks ago when this freak flu was announced, but there was nothing scary. Kiev is safe place to stay, no doubts. I was there for a business for a couple of days and could recommend president hotel as business one for stay. I choose it because of centrally good location and good recommendations based on internet reviews. And all in all I was satisfied and had nothing to complain. Great staff, clean and comfy rooms, total absence of street noise, great breakfast.

Much of the information with the flu has been increased. But this was not only the politicians to move to earn some money. I would like you to look at it from the other side. Ukraine - the state, which is learning to provide service.
The reason why Ukraine is not going foreign tourists - no service and care for foreign tourists. This situation shows that Ukraine and cares about its citizens, but due to the fact that the state young, we were a bit overdone - wanted to do everything as best as possible)
I can say 100% of that in Ukraine - safe, although there is no order in the state. In the soul of Ukrainians, as well as all Slavs PROBABLY will always be more important than human relationships than laws written on paper.
Unlike Europe, in this regard as I said - we are a young country, and only learn their mistakes)
And despite all the problems, confusion and lack of technology - in Ukraine is very good living people, whom I love very much.

I was in Kiev and Lviv two weeks ago and had an amazing time. There were tons of people wearing masks due to H1N1, but it didn't deter me from enjoying my trip. I can't vouch for the rest of the Ukraine, but as a solo female traveler, I felt 100% safe in both cities I visited. I know just a little bit of Russian and can manage the Cyrillic alphabet well, but even when there was a language barrier, most people were friendly and did the best they could to help me.

I wouldn't say Kiev has an amazing tourism infrastructure, but if people did a bit of research and gave it a try, they could easily manage the city. To me, Kiev was a diamond in the rough, while Lviv is clearly establishing itself as a major weekend away type destination.

bookmarking, this thread has lots of great information on Kiev, will be there next year.

OrangeTravel...perhaps you can help Michael on this thread..he's in Kiev and has what seems like a major problem. I told him I would try to contact you.
Thanks
Stu Tower
http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/ukraine-visa-440883-2.cf