"I have assumed that we will fly into Frankfurt and immediately transfer to a flight to Berlin to commence our trip... We are interested in history, museums, and architecture,"

With so much time in the country, Frankfurt's many museums could be on your schedule (check all 4 pages here):

http://www.frankfurt-tourismus.de/cms/tourismussuite/en/culture_leisure_recreation/museums_gallery/index.html

"My thinking is that we would stay 6 nights in an apartment in Berlin..." Good plan. A nice amount of time for Berlin.

"...and pick up a rental car for the remainder of the trip." An expensive option and a lot of driving. A boxy compact stick might be handy occasionally but will cost you around US$300/week minimum for rental and insurance, a good bit more for an automatic. Gas is $8/gal. You'll be driving well over 2000 km, I imagine, so with parking expenses, vignette fees, etc. a smallish car might cost a bit under $2000. A car also involves concerns about accidents, traffic jams, and traffic violations, of course. If on the other hand you bought German rail twinpasses for 5 days, you could reach each of your 4 bases after Berlin, and Frankfurt at the end, for $418 total. Impromptu daytrips from your base can be done by regional daypass; Bamberg-Rothenburg and back, for example, is 15.60 for a 2-person daypass. Germany's rail system is extensive - roughly 5,500 stations in all - and efficient and serves all the destinations you've named.

However, you might want a car in the Alps for a few days or a week for east-west journeys, say between Berchtesgaden, Füssen, where the terrain requires routing through Munich and eats up travel time; it's also possible that in these places, you'll want to stay somewhere rural and scenic outside of town and away from the rail lines, so perhaps a train/car combo plan might be in order.

"Our first stop would be Goslar - or thereabouts - more as a break of journey than a destination..."

If you really like architecture, you might pause in the area for a few days. Hildesheim, Hameln, Rinteln, and Celle have Weserrenaissance and other interesting styles you might enjoy seeing. There's a cool palace in Bückeburg as well.

http://www.germany-tourism.de/ENG/nature_active_recreation/spug_different_styles_and_periods/detail/Bueckeburg_Schloss_und_Park_Bueckeburg.htm?slidebox=

Thanks Russ, for taking the time for a detailed response.

I'll do some research on the towns that you mention in the general area of our currently planned first stop after Berlin; it may be we can take a little longer there. Thanks also for the link.

I accept a lot of what you say about trains vs cars but we would definitely be driving outside of Berlin. For us the convenience outweighs the negatives. We're quite happy with a manual and usually drive a Cat C car in Europe - Ford Focus, Renault Clio, Fiat Bravo etc - and find that size works well for us.

For some reason we hadn't really thought about Frankfurt other than as an airport - maybe we should have a closer look, it would be easy enough to spend our last couple of days there.

Russ, you clearly know Germany well, do you (or any other Fodors subscriber, of course) have any thoughts on whether it is practical to be based on one or two locations to see most of the places that we are considering in southern Bavaria & Austria? The more I read about the Lake Konstanz area, the more I think that we might be better to spend more of our time to the east - Fussen, Berchtesgaden for example - and see that area in a more leisurely fashion.

Thanks again, and looking foward to more suggestions.

Anyone else care to comment?

Bookmarking with interest. For background reading without a WWII focus you might have a look at Peter Watson's The German Genius and Simon Winder's Germania. [My last visit was before the Wall came down; I'm looking forward to seeing the east of the country sometime soon, having transited the GDR back then on my way from Prague to West Berlin.]

>The German Genius
Dreadful book full of nonsense an prejudice. Only gives you an insight into the twisted mind of this English author.

Hi Greg,

with so much time at your disposal you are really spoilt for choice! but with your liking for museums and desire to see Berlin, that seems to me to be an obvious starting point.

after that I suggest the area about 2 hours south of Berlin where we went on a recent trip - there are so many lovely things to see there; not just Dresden and Leipzig, but Weimar, Erfurt, Halle, the saechsisches Schweiz [a rocky area along the banks of the Elbe around the Czech border] - it was a real eye-opener.

from there you could tour gently down towards the south of Germany - Bamberg and Rothemburg for example, to the Munich area, where you have clearly already identified plenty to see, basing yourselves in Fuessen or Berchtesgarten.

finally work your way back up to Berlin via the Black Forest, Heidelberg, possibly a few days on the Mosel, Goslar and Potsdam.

That does not of course include vey much of Austria, apart from Salzburg as a possible day trip from southern Germany. Only you know whether you want to concentrate on Germany or to fit more of Austria into the itinerary.

Thanks Annhig, I'll do some research on the area you mention south of Berlin as an alternative to heading more easterly; it will have to be one or the other as our main focus is to head south west and broadly down the romantic road towards southern Bavaria. The flights that we are looking at arrive and depart from Frankfurt so one end of the trip needs to be there - hence we would not return to Berlin.

Probably the thing that I would most like to get feedback on is the practicality of a single base somewhere between Salzberg, Berchtesgaden, and Fussen. Or would we be better to go for 2 stops, one around Fussen, and another at Salzberg/Berchtesgaden (or thereabouts). Not knowing the terrain & roads etc I don't really know what is sensible for day trips - normally we'd be hapy to tackle a couple of longer days each week but we don't want to be driving all day, every day.

Germany is our main objective, with just modest excursions in to Austria - maybe Hallstatt for example.

If I get the chance I'll take a look at the recommended books and maybe amke up my own mind about their quality.

Thanks again, Greg

In regards to your question on having a single base between Salzburg and Fussen, the logical choice would be Munich since it is a midway point I've done this in the past where I did a day trip to Salzburg (by car) and Fussen (by train). However, it was my 2nd time in Salzburg when I traveled there from Munich on a day trip so I wasn't there for sightseeing and I'm not sure if I would recommend it as a day trip if it is your first time in Salzburg because it is such a lovely city and you can easily spend a couple of nights there (if not 2 nights, then at least one night. but I'm not a fan of changing hotels after one night so I would naturally suggest at least a 2 night stay). I would suggest basing in Salzburg for 2 nights and you can also do a day trip (or en route from Munich) to see Innsbruck and other towns/villages along the way.

Fussen is easily do-able as a day trip from Munich if you're going there to see Neuschwanstein, especially if you have a car. I did this by the train and it was in the winter where days are shorter than in October.

With a 5 week trip, you can possibly do a loop around Germany (starting and ending in Frankfurt so you don't have to be bothered with a flight to Berlin) with a side trip to Austria to see Salzburg. You can start in Frankfurt, drive up to Koblenz/Trier to do a Mosel trip, then either head north to Hamburg or head northeast directly to see Goslar (Unesco site), Celle, Heildesheim before going to Berlin. It's too bad you're not there for the Christmas markets which start at the end of november because I think Goslar has one of the prettiest christmas markets in Germany!

Great idea to stay in Berlin for 6 nights. There's so much to see and do in Berlin! I'm glad you're not rushing through Berlin in the usual 3-4 nights stay many travelers opt for. While in Berlin, I strongly recommend doing a day trip from Berlin to Potsdam to see Sans Souci.

After Berlin, you can head south going through Leipzig and other places that Annhig mentioned before basing in Munich. Then it's up to you if you want to use Munich as a base to see Fussen/Salzburg/Innsbruck or do a side trip to Salzburg.

I can't comment on the drive between Munich and Frankfurt (presumably where you will fly outr return flight) because I've never driven between these 2 cities.

Füssen, Fuessen, Füssen, Fuessen
Füssen, Fuessen, Füssen, Fuessen
Füssen, Fuessen, Füssen, Fuessen
Hildesheim,Hildesheim,Hildesheim
Salzburg, Salzburg, Salzburg
Bacharach, Bacharach, Bacharach
Würzburg,Wuerzburg, Würzburg
Würzburg,Wuerzburg, Würzburg
Würzburg,Wuerzburg, Würzburg
Rothenburg, Rothenburg, Rothenburg

Deutsch Sprach, schwehhr Sprach.

ja, und, logos?

wir wissen, was sie sagen wollte.

Is Greg a girl? It's really schwer, scheint jedenfalls so.

logos - it was Piccolina that I thought you were picking up, but I see that Greg too is a stranger to the umlaut.

i think that the problem is that non-german speakers do not appreciate their significance and therefore don't actually see them. but i think that you guessed what they meant.

We need a spelling bee contest on this forum, that may help.
Spell "Koenigssee"... It's not just the Umlaut, the bergs and the burgs but basically the name of each and every town or place.

Well, thanks for all your additional input . . . . I think.

Based on Russ's comments we have now added 2 nights in Frankfurt at the start of our trip - one at the expense of Berlin and one as pure trip-creep. I'll now look at going from Frankfurt to Berlin by train.

Piccolina I'll take a look at Munich although it wasn't "on my list' for this trip. I'd be a bit concerned that it may be too far for some of the excursions that we would want to do from a base in that area - for example Munich-Hallstatt would be 2h30 accorrding to Google Maps. I understand that you are suggesting a separate stop in Salzurg but I was hoping that we could find a base to stay a week - using an apartment rather than hotels - from which we could see the surrounding area, and visit Salzburg, while avoiding a hotel stay.

Logos999 thanks for all your help, I think I have a much better grasp on our itinerary now. I have to say that anyone who is concerned by spelling &/or grammar errors, in any language, on this forum may well be in for a stressful life.

But, Greg, thing is, if you misspell the name of a place you may well end up in the wrong place. There are many locations with similar names, so the exact spelling is of some significance indeed. Rothenberg, for example, is a tiny village out in the boonies in the Odenwald hills and you'll look in vain for a town wall and the so-called medieval flair if you end up there.

Hi Quokka, that may be true if this was a booking form but it is actually an internet forum. I can assure you that I check my destinations on maps & guidebooks before I make any bookings.

I also accept that the spelling deficiencies in my original post and those following may just have made it impossible for logos999 to have any idea of where we wanted to go, and hence be unable to offer any helpful information, . . . but I doubt it.

And yes, I could have typed Rothenburg ob der Tauber, intead of Rothenberg, and Frankfurt am Main intead of Frankfurt, but do think that most people were able to figure out what I was asking.

Anyway, booked flights today so I'll have to fill in 5 weeks somehow!

But, Greg, thing is, if you misspell the name of a place you may well end up in the wrong place. There are many locations with similar names, so the exact spelling is of some significance indeed.>>

on our recent visit to eastern Germany, we encountered exactly this problem. as we were leaving Potsdam, we set our GPS for our destination, Naumburg, and were a little surprised to see that i gave a 4 hour time estimate for the trip, when we knew it ought to be 2 hour or so.

We pushed a few buttons, tried again, and came up with 2 Naumburgs. [please, quokka - what is the plural of Naumburg? Naumburgen?] The closer one had a street with the name where our friends live; the other one didn't. with an air of confidence, we set off.

fortunately we were right and ended up in the right place. When we mentioned this to our friends, they said that we needed "Naumburg/Salle", which we then found was mentioned on our GPS.

so most of the time, Greg, you are absolutely right, but just occasionally, you could be horribly wrong!

I guess I'm not understanding the need to stay in one location for a week and take side trips.

think of it this way; your choice of a stay-put city is the center of a wheel. Every day trip you take is like a spoke - out in, out in, out in. A lot of driving. Why not just drive around the rim of the wheel? It'll save you a lot of time.

Of course, your final trip be a square or a triangle or a trapezoid or none of these shapes, but you get the idea. Keep moving from place to place, otherwise, take the train. One of the advantages to having a car is to be able to go continuously without having to establish a base.

If you like museums, then Berlin is certainly the place for museums. As is Munich, but slightly different. Frankfurt's Stadel Museum (sorry, I can't type the umlauts and whatever else accent marks in European languages) is worth a visit.

Vienna is a gorgeous city with it's own list of good museums. I'm surprised you're leaving it out.

"I'll now look at going from Frankfurt to Berlin by train."

You can get a "Sparpreis" ticket for two 92 days in advance for 49€, maybe a little more if the cheapest tickets are gone when you check in a timely way. Regular price is over 200€. Sparpreis tickets have restrictions and charges for changes. You can see these prices at the site below if you use a travel date 92 days from NOW as an example. http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

Piccolina I'll take a look at Munich although it wasn't "on my list' for this trip.... I was hoping that we could find a base to stay a week - using an apartment rather than hotels - from which we could see the surrounding area, and visit Salzburg, while avoiding a hotel stay."

Munich makes sense as a base for train travel to Füssen and Salzburg but probably not for Hallstatt or Berchtesgaden. But it's not a good base for a car - way too much potential for delays going in and out. Prien and Aschau are scenic spots that lie roughly mid-way between Munich and Salzburg and might be good candidates for an apartment base. Check driving distances first (I'm sure you will.)

The local tourist offices and their websites are probably the most complete sources of rentals.

Prien accommodations brochure:
http://www.tourismus.prien.de/files/tourismus_brochure/ggv_2010_engl_6s_web.pdf

Search for apartments in Prien and Aschau using the Union Jack:
http://tportal.toubiz.de/prien/ukv
http://tportal.toubiz.de/aschau/ukv

I'd keep expectations low for Füssen if you're daytripping there for "castles." I'm in the minority here, but Neuschwanstein IMO is hypertourism at its worst, not really a castle, and a mere 140 years old, a goofy private residence lived in for a mere 6 months. Ludwig's palatial residences Hohenschwangau and Linderhof are quite different and maybe more interesting, but you'll find Ludwig's Herrenchiemsee palace at your doorstep if you stay in Prien or Aschau without the long trip to Füssen. This palace is on Herreninsel (island in Lake Chiemsee):

http://www.herrenchiemsee.de/englisch/n_palace/index.htm

Salzburg has some interesting castles:

http://www.salzburg-burgen.at/en/

Thanks again Annhig for your continuing interest. Your comment suggests to me that I should retain my resistance to using a GPS. You're right, it could happen, but it never has and I'm happy to keep on relying on my research and map reading skills.

Thanks also to easytraveler for your comments. For us, basing ourselves for a few days isn't a need but a preference. We enjoy getting to know a town - usually not a city - over a few days while still heading out to explore the surrounding region. It allows us to prepare some meals "at home" - saving money certainly, but also eating out every night pales a bit over several weeks. As for Vienna, it looks superb but we have to stop somewhere - hopefully we'll get another chance.

Russ, thanks again to you as well, I've book-marked the train tickets site and we will certainly try and use that when the time comes. Prien & Aschau look promising and I'll do a bit of research into distances & accomodation. I've heard about Neuschwanstein and understand its provenance but it may be one of those things that we go and see anyway. We'd certainly like to visit the residences.

We're thinking now of dropping Konstanz/Lindau from our itinerary and substituting 2 days at Salzburg; So we would have a week somewhere around the northern end of the Romantic Road, a week maybe around Prien/Aschau, 2 nights in Salzburg, followed by either 1 or 2 nights in Innsbruck, then Fussen on our way north to Heidleberg.

Happy to hear more.

Fuessen or Füssen
Heidelberg, Heidelberg, Heidelberg

yes, logos, but Wien, or Vienna?

München or Munich?

Genf or Geneva?

Basel or Basle?

Local or English,both do make it clear what is meant but never fantasy names like "Munchen" which isn't German nor English. "Minga" otoh would be correct too but needs to be explained. But then, if someone isn't capable of spelling the name of a place correctly (where she/he has visited), can you expect any other knowledge about that place. Imagine someone having visited Berchtesgaden and the Koenigssee several times not able at all to spell KOENIGSSEE or even bothering to look it up. You should expect more. If someone is constantly writing "Noo Yorg", would you take advice from him about "New York"?

logos - the OP is giving advice, he's seeking it.

also, his computer may not [easily] allow him to use umlauts etc. the convention to replace the umlaut with an E [as in Muenchen] is not obvious to those who are not german speakers. I can sympathise with your frustration at seeing German place names mis-spelt, but i think you are being a bit hard on the OP.

If it were just the OP... I guess the people on this forum that are able to spell "Koenigssee" are less than 3%. Yet they all visit.

I guess the people on this forum that are able to spell "Koenigssee" are less than 3%. Yet they all visit.>>

AND manage to find it, Logos, without an apparent knowledge of the importance of those two little dots.

honestly, I do sympathise. the mangling of other peoples' languages seems to be a national sport for the British. I have lost count of the number of times i have heard "Doppelganger" instead of "Doppelgänger" even on the BBC, or " paninis" or bruschetta pronounced brushetta, but what can you expect from a race who will tolerate "potato's"?

"What belongs to the potato?" I long to ask.

logos - It's a curse of the supremacy of English - in other circumstances Europeans may be no better - as it happens, this colonial of mainly bog Scots ancestry has made more of an effort with the rudiments of other languages, including German, than his LS (long-suffering) who has a German background and name. And it's true that some who should know better don't make much of an effort with pronunciation - like that Spaniard IOC honcho who announced the winning 2000 Olympic Games host as 'Sid-a-nee' (when everyone here knows it as 'Sinnee').

[and the Europeans probably don't even have a word for provocateur]

annhig - yes, Apostrophe Man has much to answer for - here and elsewhere - by those who should know better.

I guess logos999 has a point.

I had a request recently from a german speaker wanting to know "whether it was worth visiting Tangambelanga when travelling between Yackandanda and Talangatta". Of course I could given him some helpful information, knowing well what he meant, but I just replied "Tangambalanga, Yackandandah, Tallangatta".

I'm sure he found that helpful and is a better person for it.

Well, for better or worse we have now decided on our itinerary and made reservations. Thanks to all those who offered us helpful advice - some of which has shaped our route.

This is what we ended up with.

Arrive Frankfurt airport 5:50 am (31st August)

Days 1 & 2 Frankfurt, then train to,
Days 3 - 7 Berlin
Days 8 -9 Quedlinberg (pick up car Berlin)
Days 10-15 Rothenburg
Days 16-22 Prien
Days 23-25 Berchtesgaden
Days 26-28 Oberammergau
Days 29&30 Heidlelberg
Days 31-36 St. Goar
Day 37 Drop off car & fly out of Frankfurt

This will be our first extended visit to Germany and we are now looking forward to our trip.
Thanks again. Greg

This looks like a lot of fun, Gary.

Maybe I missed it above, but were you planning on any side trips out of Rothenburg?

Hi klondiketoo, Gary's out at the moment so I'll reply instead.

Yes, we certainly hope to visit a number of other towns as day trips from Rothenburg - Bamburg, Wurzburg, Nuremburg, Dinkelsbuhl, Nordlingen, for example - time will tell how many we get to.

Generally, each place where we stay more than 2-3 days we hope to use a base for seeing the surrounding regions.
Greg