Congratulations on the nuptials!

You probably don't want to hear this at this point, but here are some things I would have done differently:

1. Booked a flight into Milan and out of Rome so you wouldn't have to circle back to Milan.

2. Checked on transportation between places before booking hotels.

3. Checked on weather in the Cinque Terre in October, which is rainy season.

But, unless you can change plans at this stage, I'd just start booking trains. There's no need for a car unless you want to, say, roam around Umbria a bit from that base in Spello. In the rest of your destinations, a car is useless or a liability.

thank you! no, I like the criticism

We booked the round-trip flights from Milan just because they were about $1k cheaper at the time and needed to save some money.

Definitely agree on your second and third point. Although, we can still cancel our hotels in Cinque Terre, and Spello. The only ones we can't change are Venice and Rome which are at the beginning and end of our trip

Can't imagine a $1k difference as I've been monitoring flights in and out of these cities for years and it's always less than $100 difference.

I would drop CT or at the very least take a day off of it. I would add Florence back in and take a day trip to Siena (by bus).

Train from Milan to Venice. Train from Venice to Florence (it really takes too much time to go to CT). Pick up a car leaving Florence and drive to Spello. Drop car in Foligno and train to Rome.

You can visit some places around Spello by train or bus, but it's just easier to have a car.

We have done RT in and out of Milan before because our frequent flier miles allow us to get flights on any airline but must be round trip. Not ideal, but not the end of the world either. Just want to mention that if you have an early flight out of Milan, Hotel First is very close to the airport and a pretty decent hotel for your last night in Italy. Train from Rome to MIlan is about 4.5 hrs. We left Rome at 2:30 so plenty of time to enjoy the morning there and have a good lunch before heading to the train station.

If you decide to add Florence back in as Kybourbon suggests - what made a world of difference for me was a very central hotel. I made the mistake of not being in the central core my first visit, I was on the other side of the river and down the road a ways (Hotel David - which would be nice if you had a car to stash). I came back later that same trip and had a much better experience primarily because of the location. That second time, We stayed at Hotel Davanzati - very friendly and you could pop back in during the day easily.

We enjoyed Siena too.

thanks for the advice.

We actually have the ability to adjust certain parts of the intinerary. The only things that are locked are the beginning and end of our trip (3 nights in Venice, 3 nights in Rome.) Everything in between is refundable and we can change. We could extend time in either Venice or Rome and skip Cinque Terre, add Florence back in, or other options. I supposed the round trip out of Milan isn't helping things.

any suggestions knowing this?


Read more: http://www.frommers.com/community/forum.cfm/europe/italy/traveling-around-italy-honeymoon/.0#ixzz23MKvjqSj

"Can't imagine a $1k difference as I've been monitoring flights in and out of these cities for years and it's always less than $100 difference."

I agree with kybourbon . . .if you were looking at the "multi-city" option for tickets, I also believe there would have been little different in price.

(If you were looking at two one-way tickets, which is the incorrect way to book such tickets, you would probably find that $1k price difference.)

Yes, for your itinerary you might benefit from having a car in Spello--otherwise stick with the train.

I strongly encourage you to rethink Florence. It is my favorite city in Italy and perfect for your October time frame. Some people find it hot and crowded during the summer but it should be less so in October. While we loved Cinque Terre, we have been only once, in May. We have returned 7 times to Florence. If you are going in late October, you definitely risk a rainy CT and there is nothing to do there indoors.

I, too, am surprised at the difference in fare for the open jaw flight unless, of coursse, you are using miles or something. Normally it will be less than the train fare back to Milan.

Whatever you end up doing, don't cancel the Spello/Umbria portion of your trip. Umbria is spectacularly beautiful, great food and wine, lovely people - truly the real Italy. As St. Cirq suggested, this is the one place on your itinerary to consider a car, and I strongly recommend it. It is easy to get around between the hill towns, the roads are good and well-marked. Wish I was going back.

Where are you planning to stay in Spello?

Have a great time!

danzaman,

I really like kybourbon's advice. Skip CT this time, add a day to Rome and see Florence if you want. Otherwise add a day each to Venice and Spello.

Definitely get a car for Spello. You will love exploring this part of Italy!

Congratulations!

I'm thinking of adjusting our trip based on the feedback here and over on the Frommer's forums. What are your thoughts on this instead:

Original Itinerary:
1) 3 nights in Venice
2) 3 nights in Cinque Terre
3) 3 nights in Spello (Umbria)
4) 3 nights in Rome


Revised Itinerary:
1) 3 nights in Venice
2) 2 nights in Florence, day trip to Siena or Montepulciano
3) 2 nights in Spello, day trips to Assisi and other
4) 4 nights in Rome

*oops, made a typo. original itinerary was actually still "2 nights in Spello", not 3

Is there any way you can switch your Venice/Rome nights (not drop them, just change them around)to other nights? Do you have a night for Milan before your flight home?

unfortunately when I booked the Venice and Rome portion months back, they were non-refundable

It seems like I could've booked this much more efficiently!

I did book a hotel in Milan (Uptown Palace Hotel Milan) which looked to be a few miles from the airport.

do you guys recommend booking trains in advance or waiting until you get there?

Florence is my favorite city in Italy. However, as much as it pains me to say this, I think your itinerary would work better without it.

It's unclear how many days/nights you have, but this is generally what I suggest:

Day 1. Arrive Milan. Depending on what time you land, stay the night or train immediately to Venice. The train ride Malpensa-Venice would take about 4 hours, and the last departure from Malpensa that connects with a fast train is at 7:30 p.m.
Day 2. Venice
Day 3. Venice
Day 4. Venice
Day 5. Rent car and drive to Spello (about 4.5 hours)
Day 6. Explore Umbria, stay Spello
Day 7. Explore Umbria, stay Spello
Day 8. Return car at Foligno (15-20 minutes from Spello), train to Rome (about 2 hours)
Day 9. Rome
Day 10. Rome
Day 11. Rome
Day 12. Train Rome-Milan/Malpensa. Depending on your departure time, you may need to train to Milan the night before. Rome to Malpensa is about 4.5 hours (assuming no delays).

If you've got another night, I would add it to Spello/Umbria.

Not knowing your exact dates, you'd need to verify that the rental offices in Venice and Foligno are open on the right days to do the above.

The Uptown Palace Hotel Milan that I found is IN Milan on Via Santa Sofia. If this is your hotel, it's not near any of the main sights of Milan and not near the central train station (for the train to Venice). But now I'm wondering if you're landing at Linate because this hotel is in fact "a few miles from the [Linate] airport."

If your departing flight at the end of the trip is out of Linate, you'd train Rome-Milan and then I suggest taking a taxi to Linate.

I don't book trains in advance, but there are possible discounts on some routes/trains if you do. If you decide to head to Venice on arrival, I would buy those tickets after you land in the event your plane is late.

thank you Jean! here is some more detail around what I've booked. The "Venice" part of the trip has to stay at the beginning and the "Rome" has to stay at the end due to the non-refundable hotels I booked. Everything in between or if we wanted to add on to Venice and/or Rome is still fair game:

Itinerary:

Land in Milan on 10/9/12, train straight to Venice
--
3 nights in Venice:
Hilton Molino Stucky Venice
--
2 nights in Florence/Tuscany Day Trip:
Hotel Berchielli
--
2 nights in Spello/Umbria Day Trip(s):
Hotel Palazzo Bocci
--
4 nights in Rome:
Artemide Hotel
--
1 night in Milan, due to early flight in AM:
Uptown Palace Hotel
photos:

ps - our flight lands around 11:30AM in Milan on 10/9 ^^^

full travel map here: http://bit.ly/LqxWwu

If you have only two nights in Florence, there's really no time for a day trip. If time in the Tuscan countryside appeals to you more than Florence, then drive from Venice and stay those two nights in a smaller town.

If you decide to stay in Florence and your plan is to head to Spello on Sunday, 10/14, you'd have to go to the Florence airport to rent the car.

any recommendations on a Tuscany town to stay in?

Agreed, Florence might not be worthwhile in the time we have. Would you recommend adding the two additional nights I'd be gaining to Spello or do should I spread them out between Venice and Spello? I'm also a photographer and would love to capture some of the beauty out in Italy. I'm wondering if the Spello part of the trip would be the best for landscape shots?

Option A: 3 nights in Venice, 4 nights in Spello, 4 nights in Rome
-or-
Option B: 4 nights in Venice, 3 nights in Spello, 4 nights in Rome


thanks again for all your help. being able to talk to someone who has been there before is extremely helpful. You can only do so much online reading articles.

I would stay in Florence and take a bus to Fiesole, a suburb of Florence from which you can overlook the Tuscan countryside from one side of town and Florence from the other side. The bus leaves from Piazza San Marco and is a 20 minute trip. While at Piazza San Marco, visit the Accademia to see Michelangelo's David and the Museo San Marco to see Fra Angellico's beautiful frescos.

If not Florence, drive from Venice to Montalcino and take a couple of day trips from there. Montepulciano and Pienza are options.

Well, Venice is a bit of a photographer's dream as well, so from that perspective I don't think it makes much difference unless you have a preference for rural landscape versus water scenes. But as a practical matter with regard to renting the car, you'll get the best value with at least a 3-day rental, so I'd opt for Option A.

Lots of photo ops in all three destinations. I love Umbria and am less drawn to Venice, so I'd pick Option A. But the next poster will pick B because they're nutty for Venice. You won't know if you made the right choice until you get there.

Will you be very jet-lagged on arrival in Venice? If so, you might need/want the extra time there. Three nights = two full days. Four nights = three full days. Your Venice hotel is not very close to the main sights.

I highly recommend you choose option A. I would try to eliminate most of the long drive from Venice to Spello by taking a late morning train from Venice to Chiusi in Tuscany. It's a 4 hour train ride, and you should time your arrival in Chiusi for when the car rental offices open, which is after 4pm. You will then have a short drive to Spello.

GIven your inerests, I think you are getting better advice in the other forum. I certainly wouldn't stay in Florence to take a bus to Fiesole on an already busy honeymoon. Unless you are terribly interested in wine, it makes more sense to go to prettier Montepuliciano in Tuscany than Montalcino.

Although Umbria is pretty, if photographing landscapes is part of your interest in photography, the Montepulciano area of Tuscany and the val d'Orica is iconic for photographers. That area is about a 90 minute drive from Spello.

If you haven't already booked a place in Spello, you might give some consideration to staying a bit west of Spello in order to be able to visit that area in Tuscany more easily. Towns like Montone, Corciano and Torgiano and Panicale might be worth looking at, and there are countryside relais in all these areas that are geared toward honeymoon or special occasion stays.

Danzaman, many of the fast trains that go from Venice to Chiusi require a change in Florence. If you prefer to take an early morning train, you can stop off in Florence, store your luggage at the train station, and take a few hours strolling around, taking pictures. So long as you are back on the train by 3pm, you can arrive in Chiusi in time to pick your rental car and be at your Umbrian lodgings before it gets dark.

But I wouldn't make that decision until you are actually in Venice, because you might prefer to linger in Venice and take a later train.

I'll also point out that some trains leaving Venice make a stop in Bologna rather than Florence. If you feel like a few hours in Florence would be an exercise in frustration rather than enjoyable, but like the idea of a glimpse of another Italian locale, Bologna has very photogenic food markets easily reached from the train station (where you can also store your luggage). You can assemble a grand picnic, take it back to the train, and enjoy the journey down, arriving in Chiusi at 4pm.


The train line follows the exact same route as the highway in that part of Italy, so you won't be missing any scenery if you take the train. You'll only miss the stress of driving.

I would prefer driving Venice-Spello. Load the luggage once, stop at interesting spots along the way, no need to watch the time, etc. We enjoyed Ferrara. The mosaics in Ravenna are amazing.

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/ravenna

Driving along part of the Lake Trasimeno shoreline would be another scenic option.

Everyone has a different experience, but we don't find driving in the Italian countryside stressful.

I'd put the Umbrian landscape up against Tuscany anytime. They're just different. If you're not sure which to choose, spend some time on Google Images looking at pics of the different towns. You may already know that many consider Spello one of the most picturesque towns in Italy, and I like Montepulciano and the Val d'Orcia a lot. I just think Umbria is a little easier when you don't have much time.

I agree with Matera don't book everything to death. I too make sure I book a hotel when I land for 2 or three nights and possibly book the end of the trip as well but part of the lovely thing about travelling in Italy is how easy it is to get somewhere else by train. I would find out some hotels that you like in some of the cities you want to go and the day before email them and check if they have openeings if you are still wanting to go. This gives you the opportunity to stay somewhere if you love it or leave early if you don't. Honestly you can get most places in 3 or 4 hours or even less. If you really want to fly by the seat of your pants than leave early in the morning and go wherever you like and at the train station you finish at as long as it is in a major city you will find a information booth with hotels, b & b's etc and you are going in October which is starting to be low season. Just check for festivals so you don't end up not being able to get a room because they are having a festival and are all booked up.