JES28

We're deciding between 3 itineraries and would love some advice.

We have 9 nights to spend in Europe at the end of July into beginning of August (Yes I know we are late but we have checked into all and still have time ) and are considering the following 3 options:
1)
Fly into Bilbao Spain
3-4 nights in/around Cantabria.
3-4 nights in/around San Sebastian ( roughly 3 hr drive from Cantabria to San Sebastian)
2 nights in Madrid (roughly 4 hr drive from Cantabria to Madrid...or take train)
Home

2)
Fly into Bilbao Spain
4-5 nights in/around San Sebastian
4-5 nights in Bordeaux France countryside (roughly 3 hr drive from San Sebastian to Bordeaux)
1-2 nights in Paris (roughly 3.5 hour train or 1 hr flight from Bordeaux to Paris)
Home

3)
Fly into Bilbao Spain
4-5 nights in/around San Sebastian OR Cantabria
4-5 nights in/around Lisbon Portugal (roughly 40 min flight from Bilbao airport)
If we did this option we would probably break it up with a countryside stay outside of Lisbon
Home

We are into beautiful sights, food, wine & culture. We like old and authentic vs new and modern. I know this doesn't narrow down much in pretty much all of Europe but hoping it helps. We don't want overly touristy (I do realize this prime vacation time for all of Europe) or overly quiet.
Would love to hear opinions from my valued Fodor's travelers!
Thanks so much!

nanabee

I can't really speak to door #1 or #3! But, I've been to the Bordeaux region and Paris and both the region and city are spectacular!

I'm sure whichever you chose will be a great time

kimhe

Madrid will most cetrainly be hellishly hot, so I would leave out option 1. Would choose in and around San Sebastian over Cantabria: http://www.euskoguide.com/places-bas...stian-tourism/

bilboburgler

If you've not been to Europe before then despite the heat in Madrid I'd do 1.

If Madrid is hot Bordeaux will be very damp and warm. If you want the romance of Paris then chose 2.

If you like a good mix of old and new then route 3 gives you a real opportunity.

JES28

Thanks all!
Hellishly hot does not sound like fun, and is a very good point. Kimhe, can I ask why you recommend San Sebastian over Cantabria?

I've been to Paris several times and although I do love it, in this case it would just be the gateway home with the focus being the route through Bordeaux (thinking countryside/wineries etc).

To answer another question, we have been throughout Europe many times but this will be our first time in all of the other areas (Northern Spain, Madrid Lisbon, & Bordeaux).
Although I don't want to spend much time in a city, we thought we'd spend a little time since we would be there anyway OR find a place along the way (i.e. a place on the way to Madrid and then head there last day to make the flight connection). Same goes for Lisbon - see some of the city but really focus on outlying areas.

Does this sway recommendations at all?

kimhe

<Kimhe, can I ask why you recommend San Sebastian over Cantabria?>

Belle Epoque San Sebastian is the culinary capital of Spain if not all of Europe, some of the finest city beaches on the continent, beautiful landscapes, dramatic history and a local culture that people take great pride in. My favourite place on the planet since the late 80's, so I'm of course a bit biased. And several excellent villages along the rugged coastline between San Sebastian and Bilbao; Getaria, Zumaia, Mutriku, Lekeitio etc.
Getaria: http://www.euskoguide.com/places-bas...taria-tourism/
Lekeitio: http://www.lekeitio.org/en

Of course lots of good things to say about Cantabria, all of this coastline and Northern Spain is well worth exploring. Have only been in Santander a couple of times and many years ago, and was not that impressed. Too many rich kids from Madrid playing around. Beautiful Santillana del Mar was also very dressed up for the tourists. But other people can of course tell you different stories. Top notch food and beaches in Cantabria also. And a little further west, I love small Llanes: http://en.llanes.com/

bilboburgler

If you do the Bordeaux route, try and do some of the smaller places, like Montbazillac, which is a tiny village south of Bergerac (itself a good visit) with a visitable chateau, lovely, relaxed garden restaurant right in the village centre and fine views from the chateau gardens to the north. Bordeaux city itself is a bit meh, though with very large shopping area. St Emillion (the big draw) is worth a couple of hours unless you really like looking at over-priced wine bottles. The town is pretty with little back streets though a tough climb for the tired.

I'd do the North coast of Spain bit, though, this year I'm doing it and Bordeaux this Sept.

bilboburgler

Sorry, to be clear, if I was you I'd do the North coast of Spain bit, though, this year I'm doing it and Bordeaux this Sept.

JES28

Thanks so much Bilbo, I definitely agree w your thoughts about Bordeaux. We're a lot more interested in the smaller towns in the countryside.
Can I ask why you would choose all Spain over the other 2 options? We'd love any insight.
Thanks!

bilboburgler

I live in Europe so access to these is easy for me. I speak French as does Mrs Bilbo though she also speaks Spanish.

You have chosen the high season which has a special affect in France, with basically everything being filled up with the French. Nothing wrong with the French I just don't like things being filled up with stressed people. I'm more relaxed.

At the same time the Spanish will be on holiday in Northern Spain, they are a bit more relaxed generally and they adopt the siesta concept so the day is actually longer with restaurants open later and of course they do not have any vestiges of a 35 hour week...

So, if I have to be hot with loads of people on holiday, much as like both peoples I'd chose to be with the Spanish.

Finally I don't like the way the damp builds up along the main river in Bordeaux. Yes it helps get the botrytis going to make the great sweet wines, but just too unpleasant for me.

Still Madrid can be very hot, I stayed in an old Bordello there once (the bed was concrete with mattress added ;-) ) and my goodness was it hot, the Argentinian dance hall opposite didn't open until 3am and closed at 8am every night and going in was like walking into a naked sauna. During the day, you looked for the fountains.

You decide....

JES28

Thanks so much Bilbo, this is really great insight. We're thinking no Bordeaux. Have you spent much time in Or around Lisbon?

Robert2533

It will be very warm in Lisbon in July, period, but not as bad as Bordeaux. I would stick with the Basque country and Cantabria and enjoy the cuisine (splendid) and outstanding wines.

bilboburgler

Lisbon, a bit, found the Arsenale building pretty good and some of the shopping areas ok, plus the whole beach area is nice but .... nothing stood out as fantastic in town but perfectly pleasant. Around Lisbon is maybe nicer, with some ancient cities easy to access by train. I also like the Alentejo and then the Algarve but not in July, one will be very hot and one will be full of yet more tourists.

Michael

<i>1-2 nights in Paris</i>

Not worth it; it barely touches Paris. I would do option 3 and leave out France altogether.

JES28

Bilbo, thanks again for all of your insight - very appreciated!
Michael, why do you say option 3 and not 1? I think we have ruled out Bordeaux (2). Now just going back & forth on including Portugal or sticking with Spain only.

Robert2533

Check the latest from the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/tr...ef=travel&_r=0

Michael

<i>Michael, why do you say option 3 and not 1? </i>

Because I suspect, having never been there, that two nights in Madrid is only one full day in a city that deserves more.

Robert2533

For Madrid, 5 days is hardly enough!

thursdaysd

I am a very big fan of Lisbon, but I would not go there or near there in July or August any more than I would go to Madrid or southern Spain.

If I were starting in northern Spain I would stay there and add the Pyrenees - Pau, St Jean Pied du Port - not sure whether Bayonne would have the same issues as Bordeaux.

JES28

Thanks Robert, we love that video! It's making us want to go to Lisbon
In terms of Madrid for 5 days, we're not as interested in being in the city as much as the countryside. Really that's the case for any of the locations for this trip. They would be more added for the airport transit and while we're there we thought we might as well spend a night or 2 just to get a little taste of them.
We really like naturally beautiful places, medieval towns, places with old world feel, not too touristy, but not too quiet and sleepy - and great food & wine. We were thinking of some wine tasting in the Basque region, and some beach or dramatic countryside in either Spain or Portugal.

Since everyone prefers different aspects for their travels maybe this will help in what we're looking for:
Some of my favorite spots in Italy are Umbria, Puglia, & Cinque Terre...which I much prefer to Rome, Milan, Venice etc..
In South of France, I preferred the charming towns in Provence to the tourist filled Nice, Cannes, etc.

We're really not into museums and while we appreciate architecture, we prefer natural beauty. We work in NYC and while every city has its own beauty, charm & culture we'd prefer not to spend much time in a city during our honeymoon and during the hot summer

If knowing all this changes or helps with any opinions, please keep them coming - we're finding this so helpful and insightful and we're so appreciative for all of the great insight. We would like to book in this next week and move to the next step of planning!