LouisvilleCO

I just back from Montpellier on business and loved the city. Now my wife wants to go. We have been to France a couple times before so want to add on a couple areas we haven't yet been - specifically Bordeaux and Normandy. My plan was to fly to Paris, train to Normandy, use Honfleur as our base for 5 or 6 nights, seeing Mont St Michel as a day trip and then train to Bordeaux for a few days. Following that train to Montpellier for 3 nights before TGV back to Paris-CDG for last night before flying home. Logistically does this make sense? I am aware we are going from one end of France to the other but really wondering whether the amount of time allotted is good, whether we can do this entire trip by train or need a car at some point, whether we can really do a day trip to Mont St Michel from Honfleur? Any recommendations would be helpful, especially if there are any other cant-miss sights or towns along our route.

Christina

How do you plan to base yourself in Honfleur without a car? You can't even get there without one, there is no train station. Well, of course you can get a bus from the closest one, but it seems an odd choice for someone who doesn't want to rent a car.

I think the directions you are going make sense. It will probably take quite a while to get from Bordeaux to Montpellier by train, there isn't a direct route that I know. Well, if you went from Toulouse, I guess you know the route, I think you'd have to do that again (Bordeux to Toulouse, etc.).

Michael

You probably will want to rent a car in Normandy, if just for convenience sake. For more than Mont St. Michel and the W.W.II landing areas, you might want to check out these pictures:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624436592493/

I geo-mapped them which might be useful in planning an itinerary.

I suspect that you may have to take the train back to Paris to then take the TGV to Bordeaux. Bordeaux itself probably won't take more than two days.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624394481445/

Right across from the square from the theater (at the western end of the rue Ste. Catherine), there is a wine shop with an extensive selection. I do not think that they offer tastings, but others in the same area do. This might be more convenient than trying to visit individual wineries. Click on my name and you should find a trip report on Ghent, Normandy and Brittany, and another one that includes Bordeaux.

Michael

Correction: there is no mention of Bordeaux in any of my trip reports--you'll have to rely on the photos to get some ideas.

LouisvilleCO

Thanks, Christina and Michael - just the information I needed. I suspected I would need to rent a car in Normandy. Would you suggested a train to Le Havre to pick up car? Is Mont St Michel a doable day trip from Honfleur or maybe better to reduce the number of nights staying in Honfleur and staying a night in Mont St Michel? Getting to Bordeaux from Normandy seems problematic - going back thru Paris may be the only option. I checked the train schedules - Bordeaux to Montpellier seems straigtforward as does Montpellier back to CDG.

Michael

Honfleur to the Mont St. Michel and back is very doable; others feel that there is something special about the Mont St. Michel once the crowds are gone, which means staying close by overnight. Don't miss Bayeux, if only for the tapestry. You should be able to pick up a car in Honfleur, or in Rouen if you want to visit the cathedral and old town before picking up the car.

StuDudley

Why don't you want to have a car? IMO, it is absolutely necessary for Normandy, MSM, & Montpellier/Languedoc. If you want to just visit Bordeaux and not the surrounding area, then you won't need a car. BTW, Bordeaux is not one of my "top 10" large cities in France.

I would do this:

1. Land at CDG, rent a car, & drive to Normaandy & spend a few days there. Honfleur would be a good base - but Honfleur itself is only worth a couple of hours.

2. Drive to Mt St Michele later in the day & spend an evening & morning there.

3. Drive to Dinan, stay there, and spend a few days in this lovely section of Brittany

4. Drive to Rennes (one of my "top 5 cities", dump the car, & spend a night/day there.

5. Take the TGV to Montpellier (one of my "top 10"), with a train change in Valence. Or you could take a no-train-change TGV to Avignon (Top 5), rent a car, and drive to Montpellier.

6. Rent a car & explore caves, mountains, unusual rock formations, cute medieval villages, etc in that area of the Languedoc for several days.

7. Dump the car & take the train to Bordeaux

8. TGV back to Paris.

Stu Dudley

PalenQ

You are do extensive travel by train so at least look at the France Railpass - and check out the PREM fares you can book at good discounts online if you want to lock yourself into a specific train months in advance and not be able to change it or refund it. The pass can be used on any train anytime subject to making a mandatory seat reservation on trains that require them - like TGV trains and TEOZ Corail trains - but others like in southern France you can still just hop on. But see what PREM fares are at www.voyages-sncf.com - the French Railways web site - also for schedules and then compare to a pass price - but if you want flexibility to decide which trains to take as you go along then compared to full fare and fully flexible tickets the pass may be much cheaper for such extensive rail traveling.

For lots of planning a French rail trip i always spotlight these great sources - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. You will find railpass prices at these sites as well.

LouisvilleCO

Thanks everyone. Stu, I have no objections to renting a car. I have done it on many occasions in Europe. I just know from experience that some places you need a car and some places you are better off without one. Clearly, Normandy is one area that requires a car. We have been to Avignon so probably wouldnt do that but I like the suggestion of Rennes. I am luke warm on Bordeaux so may skip that. I am now leaning towards following your recommendations 1 thru 5 (straight to Montpellier, not Avignon) and then maybe skipping Bordeaux.

PalenQ - thanks for the train info - it should come in very handy.

StuDudley

I only suggested Avignon because:.

1. You might save some time and get to Montpellier sooner
2. There is a larger selection of cars at the Avignon TGV station than at the Montpellier TGV station
3. No train changes.

Do you have my 35 page Languedoc itinerary? We've spent around 8 weeks there in several different locations. I also have a smaller one for Normandy & Brittaly. E-mail me at StuDudley@aol com if you want a copy & I'll attach them to the reply e-mail.

Stu Dudley

LouisvilleCO

Ok - I get it. I will look into the Avignon route. I will also email you for the itinerary. Thank you.

PalenQ

For TGV PREM type fares you can also try the www.idTGV.com site - they run their own TGV trains over the same rails as regular TGVs (also run by the French Railways or the SNCF as it is knows) - another option to check out.

StCirq

I would rent a car for the whole trip, and stop in La Rochelle and Ile de Re on your way south from Normandy. A couple of days in Bordeaux itself is probably sufficient, but with a car you could explore Arcachon and Cap Ferret and the Dune du Pylat.

Michael

If still interested in Bordeaux, I did find my trip report:

After two weeks in the country, my wife felt a need to see a large city. We took a long weekend to Bordeaux and loved it. Visually the city is impressive, as there are no buildings aside from traditional spires that exceed the 4 story limit of eighteenth century construction. The waterfront is in the process of being redone, but until it is finished, it provides the cheapest long term parking close to the center of Bordeaux. It is on the downstream side of the bridge. We stayed at the Opera Hotel, which is fine as long as it is not too hot (98.60 euros $120.74). The rooms have no air-conditioning, it is centrally located and therefore noisy if you keep the window open. But the location was perfect: 5 minutes from the Ste. Catherine walking street which I consider the spine of old Bordeaux and around the corner from the Allée de Tourny. The Allée is a large square which is turned into a food "festival" in the summer time. The food is not upscale but good as long as one stays with the plain and simple--moules frites was our choice. Bordeaux is a walking town, full of late 18th century and early 19th century buildings. For us, the most interesting area was between the avenue Victor Hugo and the Basilique St. Michel because it has not been renovated. It is a predominantly North African neighborhood with the street life that this implies. (Note for Internet users: The avenue Victor Hugo spreads out into a small square, more like an intersection of non-parallel streets just before the porte Bir-Hakeim. In that area, on the St. Michel side, there is a store front that advertises and offers internet connections.) While walking and photographing in that neighborhood and man stopped to talk to us. He explained that the second (American) floor of a particular building actually had the Gothic pillars of the remains of the convent supporting his living room ceiling while the exterior was 18th/19th century. He also said that the houses was full of rotting original wood paneling that had never been maintained and is slowly disappearing. We found the Quartiers des Chartrons (starred by Michelin) less interesting, perhaps because we were there on a weekend. But the public gardens are wonderful, and a good location for picnicking. A Sunday must is a visit to the market near the warship the Jean Bart. Oysters and other seafood is available for a snack or even a lunch, with a stand selling wine by the glass across the aisle. One can sit at their table and eat the bread, cheese, charcuterie or seafood that was purchased elsewhere. A very pleasant way to spend an hour or so if the weather is nice. The Musée d'Aquitaine is interesting, and tucked away in different areas are modern architectural curiosities. There is a food convention center in the Chartrons district, an enclosed market near the allée de Tourny, and a strange silo like complex of courtrooms in the cité judiciaire. None of them destroy the Bordeaux skyline, although some might argue that they nonetheless do not fit in the neighborhood. Wine lovers can visit various wine shops, some of them with tasting, near the Grand Théâtre. One is right next to the Hotel Opéra, but was unfortunately closed on Mondays, so we went across the square in front of the Grand Théâtre to a shop called l'Intendance. I like my wine, but make no pretension of being a true connoisseur. So I simply asked for a wine I could bring to friends who appreciate wines but without trying to impress them. They sold me a Côte de Bourg that my friends said--perhaps out of politeness--was very good. The building of l'Intendance is something to see. The outside is 18th century Classical style, but the inside is a circular stone tower with a good part of their collection lined along the walls of the tower. I wondered if the the higher one went, the higher the prices. The one negative comment about Bordeaux: People who complain about dog droppings in Paris have seen nothing. Paris makes a conscious effort of cleaning up and asking owners to clean up. We saw no evidence of that in Bordeaux and it shows.

PalenQ

but with a car you could explore Arcachon and Cap Ferret and the Dune du Pylat.>

I visited all those places easily by train - to Arachon and then local buses.

klondike

I'm assuming you live in Colorado and not in Britain where you could take advantage of a Ryanair flight to Bordeaux?

Had you considered an openjaw where you fly into Nice and out of Paris, or vice versa? We are travelers more along StCirq's...we love driving; if you have the time, you get to see so much more. We personally love the drive from Bordeaux along La Dordogne. The area is magical.

La Rochelle has to be one of our top 5 French cities, and we have vacationed at a rental near Montpellier a couple of times now; there is so much to see and do in that area!

It is generally cheaper to rent a car for a week--you could train CDG to Caen where you pick up the car, then on to Honfleur and use it to discover the Normandy interior pays d'auges and the coastline to Mont St. Michel, then descend south to La Rochelle, overnight there, and on to Bordeaux where you turn in the car (or park it for a couple of days in Bordeaux, then drive to Toulouse where you turn it in and train to Montpellier--you'd see some great countryside along the way)