KTO800

Last minute tag along for me to Frankfurt. Will do day trips for 1st 3 days then off to the rhine wine country for a long weekend. We wont have a car and prefer not to drag our luggage from town to town but find a lovely apartment/pension and explore castles along the rhine. I have the airline tickets, woefully unprepared. Will be there 8 days starting a week from today. The other confusing thing is I do want to see Koln, Nuremberg and Trier. These can be costly single tickets. If I get a german rail pass/twin I will have mismatched days as one person will be working. KLastly, once I hit the Rhine, it would be boat travel only, correct? Am I dreaming if I want to use one day spend it travelling on bike? Another game plan we came up with was to leave Frankfurt on Saturday and head instead to Prague. Any advice appreciated.

michelhuebeli

Boats on the Mosel run until October 6.
Boats on the Rhine switch to a sparser timetable on Oct. 7 but they still run - see
http://www.k-d.com/en/kd-scheduled-c...ine-timetable/

Trains from Frankfurt to Trier take a bit over three hours and require one or two switches en route. Can be as cheap as 19 Euros each way ("Sparangebot" - discounted offer).

Trains from Frankfurt to Nürnberg take about 2 hours, most run all the way, fares vary greatly from 19 Euros up.

www.bahn.de

Prague is a different story - six hours at least, partly by bus, you might want to fly. Can you change your air tickets to leave for home from Prague? If not, does it really make sense to go to Prague if you have to get back to Frankfurt for your flight home?

bilboburgler

You are trying to stuff too much into a weekend, the Mosel and its wine, castles etc will fill up your days. Get there using the train. Trains take bikes on the Mosel (well almost all I think) so you could hire a bike, ride down the Mosel (down not up) and catch a train back. Internet bookable hHire places getting less easy to find but http://www.mybikeguide.co.uk/Mosel_Bike_Hire.php is a good place to start.

Cochem is normally seen as a good centre to base yourself for a short visit but do consider Trier itself, I like Olewig as a nice little wine village next door, you can stay at the Brasseria or the posher Becker hotel. Consider even a bike trip to Luxembourg.

mokka4

KTO:
Trains also run on either side of the Rhein and along the Mosel River.
Base yourself in a quaint little wine town (like Bacharach or Cochem) and use the train for easy travels.
You can catch the (rather infrequently running) boat to another little town (ex: St.Goar, Bingen) explore and catch the next train onward to Koeln or Trier (both highly recommended).
This is the season for wine festivals and tastings along both rivers....
Nuernberg is just a little far afield (IMHO) for a long weekend.

mokka4

Use the bahn.com site to check out train schedules and prices:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml

mokka4

And finally, you would be eligible for cheaper Laender-Tickets, for travel confined (that day) to one state(ex: Nordrhein-Westfalen at 28,50 E single(day) or Rheinland-Pfalz at 22E single (day) )
see:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/DEU/en/pr...r-ticket.shtml

Places to stay, many sites in german(check for Ferienwohnungen in the Mittelrhein)--may be limited as short notice:

http://www.vacation-in-rhineland-pal...ne_6,_1135.htm

PalenQ

check out these sites for lots on the Rhine and Mosel and German trains - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id9.html

Boat schedules www.k-d.com. Start if you can in Rudesheim where many services commence and tour bus groups flood aboard taking the best seats - up front - so board early and nab those great seats.

Betsy

This website posted by mokka4 is available in English, which I found accidently. Click on the small flag on the right hand side at the top of the page. Shows up in Dutch then gives you the option to click on the British flag.

http://www.vacation-in-rhineland-pal...ne_6,_1135.htm

PalenQ

Many folks skip Koblenz, at the confluence of the 'Mother' Mosel and "Father' Rhine rivers and a large statue there is very famous in Germany and is about German Unification or something, replacing the lonhg-time statue of Kaiser Wilhelm that sat on the plinth for many years - in honor of the bloke who is creditec with unifying modern Germany in the late 1800s out of a hodge-podge of independent states. At the end of WW 2 an American GI used Kaiser's equestrian statue as target practice, blasting it to smitereens (as the manager of the Koblenz Camping Platz told me - the GI shot right from where today's Camping is - just across the Mosel from the statue.

When the boat docks in Koblenz stroll the very nice Rhine Ufer - riverside walk the short distance to the Deutsches Eck monumnent as it is called - Koblenz has a lovely restored Altstadt with lots of restaurants, beer gardens, etc and a thriving pedestrian shopping zone near the train station.

KTO800

I see how much I don't know. When I was looking at trains FRA to NUE it looks like 80 EUR roundtrip as I am outside the Hesse state. Local trains would be 6 hours round trip. I would be travelling alone that day. Then I thought we could just get a Twin pass and not worry about rail tickets from Frankfurt to Trier and back and that could cover a day ride out to Nuremberg. I think I read that I can use a twin pass when my partner is not there. So Tuesday-Saturday morning Frankfurt. Saturday we'd leave (hopefully to some place I've found to stay!) and use that as base camp. We fly out Weds so that gives us 4 full days in the area. So maybe a split . I think what is making this hard is I have chosen a destination area rather that a town. I've got lots of reading.

Our goals are to sightsee, eat and drink. Is this going to be a busy time due to wine festivals or the changing of the season? I once was at Disneyland for "kids free day" and try to avoid congestion. Thanks.

PalenQ

think I read that I can use a twin pass when my partner is not there>

Yes and that makes sense - the railroads do not care if the other paying person does not show up - even better for them. Same with Saverpasses in other countries - where up to five can travel on one pass at a discount over individual passes. If you want a definitive correct answer call Byron at www.budgeteuropetravel.com - I have bought passes from him for years and he will give you the right answer, which I think is the case but only 99.99% sure.

PalenQ

If I get a german rail pass/twin I will have mismatched days as one person will be working. KLastly, once I hit the Rhine, it would be boat travel only, correct? Am I dreaming if I want to use one day spend it travelling on bike?>

Passews are fully valid on k-d boats on the Rhine and Mosel to Cochem from Koblenz - www.k-d.com. You can easily take push bikes on board and ride between docks, etc. Rentals abound in cities like Rudesheim - try train stations.

Russ

"I do want to see Koln, Nuremberg and Trier..."

" Will do day trips for 1st 3 days "

"So Tuesday-Saturday morning Frankfurt. Saturday we'd leave... We fly out Weds so that gives us 4 full days in the area. So maybe a split"

"Is this going to be a busy time due to wine festivals or the changing of the season?"

KTO800: bilboburgler is right - there's too much on your plate. But I think you can still do most of this. My suggestion: Focus on the Rhine/Mosel when you leave Frankfurt, maybe see Nuremberg on a daytrip from Frankfurt...

Nuremberg is 2:05 by direct train from Frankfurt; buy now and it's 130€ savings fare for two on Friday 10/11, for example, leaving Frankfurt 7:54, leaving N'berg at 20:00. BUT... I think this long trip may not be worth it if your goal is WW II info. There are some good WW II sites on the Rhine...

Remagen's museum housed in the supports of the Ludendorf bridge, really interesting:
www.bruecke-remagen.de

Cologne's documentation center in former Nazi prison is easy to reach from the main station:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...estphalia.html

How to structure your Rhine stay efficiently and cheaply... Koblenz is the train hub for your area of interest. Trier and Cologne are far apart in opposite directions from Koblenz. Cochem is lovely but staying there puts you too far from Cologne. Best way is to maximize your time is to stay 4 near the Koblenz station and use the RE trains (regional express) along the Mosel to Trier (1:25 each way) and to Cologne (1:12.) The MRB, VIA, and RB trains from Koblenz stop everywhere but are slower. For small town atmosphere (but more train travel time) stay in a village near Koblenz instead (Boppard is excellent, 15 min. by train from Koblenz, or maybe Braubach - the home of Marksburg Castle - 11 min. from Koblenz.)

Wine fests are big in September but they're over with when you get there - so your chances are good for finding a place to stay in a village, especially on weekdays.

Getting from Frankfurt to Koblenz, Braubach, or Boppard: Use a "weekend ticket" on the regional trains, 42€:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...d_ticket.shtml

Getting from Koblenz, Braubach, or Boppard to Cologne (which lies outside the transit area and won't work with the even cheaper local passes named below): Go on Sunday, use the weekend ticket and regional trains, 42€ total.

Daytrips on Mon and Tue around the Rhine and Mosel to Trier, Remagen, Oberwesel, Bacharach, St. Goar (Rheinfels Castle), Boppard, Braubach, Koblenz: Use the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket, 26€/day for two, good on the St. Goar-St. Goarshausen ferry as well; buy from ticket machine:

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...-pfalz-ticket/

No idea what time your flight leaves on Wed. But there are direct RE trains from Koblenz (about 1:30, about 23€ each) at 6:06, 7:06, 9:02. Or spend last night in Mainz near station (about 22 min. from FRA.)

PalenQ

The more days you travel the cheaper a German Railpass Twin the cheaper per day it becomes - about $40 a day for fully unlimited hop on hop off travel at will = about 30 euros a day (p.p.) - no restrictions on times, days of travel, etc.

Take the Savings Fare Russ points out Nurnberg to Frankfurt - 65 euros a piece right there and you have restrictions, etc.

You may find for the full flexibility to ride say ICE trains and not be restricted to Regional Trains well worth the 30 euros a day for unfettered train (and K-D boats) travel is well worth perhaps a few extra euros over the various hodgepodge of Lander Cards, Weekend Schoen??? tickets, etc.

KTO800

And I pulled the trigger last night and booked Cochem last night as my base camp after Frankfurt. The lack of a booking when I'm leaving in 2 days was stressing. Now I'll just have a relaxing vacation stopping in the small towns and get to both Koblenz/Remagen and Trier over those 4 days.

My last concern. My flight leaves Frankfurt at 12:45. I want to leave Cochem at 8:00 am with a 12 minute connection in Koblenz for the airport arriving at 10:00. Can I rely on the trains to run on time? I think the answer is of course.

I appreciate all the guidance. It's been an enourmous help.

KTO

Russ

"My last concern. My flight leaves Frankfurt at 12:45. I want to leave Cochem at 8:00 am with a 12 minute connection in Koblenz for the airport arriving at 10:00. Can I rely on the trains to run on time? I think the answer is of course."

That's not my answer. NORMALLY they run on time, but don't forget that Murphy's law applies when it's least convenient.

You're planning on the 7:58 IC departure from Cochem with a change in Koblenz to an ICE train, arriving FRA at 9:59 - correct? If so, that one has a 13-minute connection time, which normally is OK. This route is available at a savings fare of 41€ for two adults right now.

HOWEVER... Delays are somewhat more common among the IC/ICE trains than among the regional trains, in my experience. IF the first IC train is late, you can't count on the second one to be late too, and it may be very tight; the ICE to FRA will typically wait a few minutes for the connecting train from Cochem, but not too long.

If you want on that second train, the ICE at 8:48 from Koblenz to FRA, I suggest you board the earlier 7:30 am RB train from Cochem instead. It pulls into Koblenz at 8:21 - which gives you 24 minutes of layover time instead, a more comfortable margin for someone with an international flight on the other end.

That said... by picking Cochem as your base and the place for your final night, you have complicated the logistics, increasing your minimum travel time to FRA on Wed. morning from 1:10 to just over 2 hours (high-speed trains) and also forcing a change of train in Koblenz. It's become quite hectic. So... If it were me, I would change my reservation in Cochem to 3 nights - and on Tuesday night use the R-P ticket (26€, the same ticket you will probably have used for a daytrip on Tuesday anyway) to travel to Mainz for the night. (You would save almost the entire fare to FRA that way, by the way, which is 72€ for two normal price!) On Tuesday morning, you'd check out of your Cochem hotel, take the train to Koblenz for a Rhine outing somewhere (dropping your bags first in a Koblenz locker for later retrieval) and finally head to Mainz.

Then on Wednesday morning you'd wake at a Mainz hotel near the station, have a leisurely breakfast, then take the 9:32 S-Bahn train to FRA (arrives 9:59, same time you planned to arrive with your plan from Cochem; price is 4.25€ each.)

Have a great time, whatever you choose.

PalenQ

I want to leave Cochem at 8:00 am with a 12 minute connection in Koblenz for the airport arriving at 10:00. Can I rely on the trains to run on time? I think the answer is of course.>

Not IME - German trains can always be late IME - take an earlier train from Cochem to be sure. Koblenz is also a several platform station where you may have to walk a bit to another platform (look on bahn.com to see which platforms - the may be adjoining if numbers are together.

PalenQ

) On Tuesday morning, you'd check out of your Cochem hotel, take the train to Koblenz for a Rhine outing somewhere (dropping your bags first in a Koblenz locker for later retrieval) and finally head to Mainz.>

Or for a longer float - going upstream you board the ship in Koblenz and take it all the way to Mainz - easy to take you bags on the boat if you do not plan to get off to look over some castle or town - the stretch between Rudesheim and Mainz however gets fairly industrial - interesting to me but maybe not others.