S_G

This is our first trip to Europe with our 3 kids ages 6, 13 and 15. We are thinking of the following itinerary for August 2006 (for a month):

Fly USA to London.
London sightseeing
EuroStar Train from London to Paris
Paris sightseeing
Get Eurail Select Saver Passes for 3 countries, 5 days for:
Paris to Rome train
Rome to Switzerland train
Switzerland to Germany train
Germany to Paris train
Paris to London on Eurostar
Back home from London

Does this itinerary make sense? How many days should we allocate to each? I know my children want to fo to Venice. Is that doable? Please advice.

Thanks.

PalenqueBob

Seems like you'd need a 4-country pass (France, Italy, Switz, Germany) -i suggest you call BETS (800-441-2387) and ask for their free European Planning & Rail Guide which gives you rail maps for each country, travel times, itineraries, etc. Their European Rail Hotline is a unique and free service that answers any European rail questions - i've used them for years. For a month your itinerary seems leisurely. You may do a night train - the kids would (could) love it, such as from Germany to Paris or paris to Rome.

Grahamh49

Sounds alarmingly hectic. Have some options to abandon sectors, so that you can relax if it all gets too tiring. Remember too that August is horribly hot, many visitor destinations are crowded and prices shoot up.May/ June is much nicer, if you can arrange it. Glad to hear you're using the trains. Worth noting that couchettes can be a very good way of travelling, whilst saving on a hotel.

elaine

two questions

how long in London? Or anywhere else?

Why fly home from London, why not from the last other place you visit?

tcreath

I too think that this itinerary is a little too hectic.

Consider flying open jaw (into one city, out of another) to save time. This rarely costs much more than a regular round trip and will save lots of time and the expense of having to get back London.

Rome is awfully far away from the other places you want to visit. Perhaps it would be better to save Italy for another trip and concentrate on France/Switzerland/Germany. What places are you considering visiting in Switzerland and Germany, and for how long?

Tracy

jgg

I agree with the others about flying into one city and out of another (open jaw). It usually isn't that much more money and will save you having to backtrack through Paris and London again as well as the cost of the trains.

That would give you 4 weeks for London, Paris, Rome, Switzerland and Germany about 5/6 nights in each location which is definitely doable, although not sure if you will be staying one place in Switzerland and Germany or moving around. ( Wait, I just reread your post - do you mean 5 days to do Rome, Switzerland and Germany?? Don't do that!)

We have just started travelling to Europe with our 2 kids (age 10 and 13). Last March we did 2 weeks in Italy (Rome, Florence and Venice), this March we will be a week in London and a week in Paris, then we will go back to Italy for 3 weeks in June.

From our trip last March I learned a few things which have helped me in planning our two new trips. First, and foremost the kids LOVED Italy, including Venice so if possible you should try it fit it in. Also, the longer we stayed in a city the more we and the kids really enjoyed it. They really liked getting a feel for the place and knowing their way around the city. They actually just loved BEING there, eating great food, trying many flavors of gelato and sipping their cappuccinos!

I am not familiar with Germany or Switzerland but would encourage you to find one particular place and not have to move around too much.

I know how hard it can be to pare things down. When starting to plan our 3 week trip this June I really wanted to tack on Prague to the beginng of the trip. I mean why not we will have flown all the way to Europe- right? But after laying it all out we decided to leave it for another trip and just concentrate on the many places we want to see in Italy.

I suggest you "map" out your trip on a calendar and see how often you will be moving and how long the train rides are from place to place. Then compare it to similar distances for U.S. travel and make sure you would be comfortable travelling those distances and visiting that many cities in the U.S.

Yes, we have heard that August can be hot and crowded in Europe, but if that is the best time for you to take the month and go - go for it ! You are planning a wonderful trip for your family.

suze

Why not fly into London and out of Rome? Using the train in between the cities heading (basically) southward in one direciton. That makes more sense than a circle to me.

janisj

You can see all those places in a month - a bit hectic but doable. But not the way you have it worked out. Going through London and Paris twice each make no sense.

Open Jaw make the most sense. But if you have already bought your air tickets - then fly from Germany to London to catch your flight home.

A reasonable Itinerary covering all those places would look something like (I'm using 4 weeks since we don't know if you mean a full month and/or if that includes the to/from Europe travel days. If you have more than 28 days just add them in anywhere along the route - I'd add them to London)

London 4 days, 4 days Paris, 2 days Florence, 3 days Rome, 3 days Venice, 5 days somewhere in Switzerland, 6 days for touring Germany, and one day to get back to London.

This would be pretty hectic (but doable) - but it at least it gives you a plan to start thinking about.

cdngrl

I fully suggest taking a look at Ryan Air and Easy Jet websites. I recently spent a month in Europe, only taking the train for short trips (cheaper than air), my most expensive flight with Ryan Air was 33 Pounds from London to Frankfurt. Ryan Air is rush seating, but families have priority to board first. They also do not fly into the main airports, but always have a bus that goes right to the city, usually about 10 Euros or so. Something to research perhaps. Also, I would skip Frankfurt if you are planning a couple of cities in Germany. My SO and I used that as our "hub" because it was cheapest to fly in and out of from Canada. I have heard great things about the rest of Germany, though. Good Luck! Venice is fantastic, although you will spend most of your time there lost. That is the best part though!

rex

I, too, recommend reducing your number of destinations, and a lot of endless train travel.

And I almost always advise the (sometimes heresy) suggestion to shortne this trip to 20 days or less (maybe even 17 or fewer), since this is your first trip. A 28 day trip of this scope will likely cost $22,000 (+ or - $5000 depending on "style" assuming airfare of $5000 ("free" air travel would change the equation, of course).

I recommend that you 25% of that budget into the bank for the next trip. Some families can save that much (or double or quadruple) every year. Whatever it takes, I recommend that build the "75%" back up, in the timeframe that fits your family... and you will be amazed at how much better (cheaper, or more bang for the buck, or both) your second trip will be because of the things you learn this trip. Moreover, your youngest child will remember so much more after age 8-10. And your teens will experience Europe in totally different ways as they advance through high school.

With 17 days, you can still have a GREAT four destination trip.

Trying to modify as little as possible, and still capture the essence of your original plan, I would recommend:

Day 0 depart
Days/nights 1-4 London
Day 5 London-Paris
Days/nights 5-9 Paris, possibly with a day trip out of the city
Day 9 Fly myair.com Paris-Orly to Venice
Days/nights 9-11 Venice
Day 12 to the end. Train to Switzerland, possibly spanning 1-3 days in northern Italy (for example, Verona, Trento) in the process. I will let others advise how best to spend 2-5 days in Switzerland. I would rent a car personally, and include the Luzern area. Fly home from Switzerland (four airports to choose from, though only two have non-stop transatlantic service).

Naturally, you could fit Germany into this itnerary quite easily by extending it. But I recommend visiting Germany in another year; it touches seven other wonderful countries which will all be new to you. You'll have a smorgasbord of choices just picking two or three of them (not that you couldn't fill weeks and weeks in Germany alone).

And of course, there will still be 90+% of England, France and Italy that is new to you, also!

Best wishes,

Rex

thereadbaron

Absolutely open jaw. You'll save lots of time. But to fly on one of those cheap carriers - the train is an integral part of a European experience. You need to factor in non-flying time - driving to airport, waiting on security lines - and then you arrive not even in the city center. It can be a real hassle.

Paris to Rome does seem a bit far away though. You can do Paris-Switzerland-Germany...

PrincessOfPenguins

Agree with the others that it is a *very* hectic schedule. Especially with the kids. Do you really want to stress so much on your holiday?? I would just spend half the time in the UK and the other half in France.

ira

Hi SG,

You have 7 destinations in 4 weeks.

Far too much.

Also, as noted above, you shouldn't go back to London or Paris.

>I know my children want to go to Venice. Is that doable?<

Sure, if you drop Germany and or Switzerland.

For 4 weeks, I suggest

London 7 days
Eurostar to Paris 7 days
Fly www.myair.com to Venice 4 days
Train to Florence 5 days
See Siena and Bologna or Pisa
Train to Rome 5 days
Fly home from Rome.

You won't need any railpasses.

The cheapest way to get from London to Rome on the Eurostar is to buy a one-day round trip ticket.

Have a great trip.

Grahamh49

There is a danger with'cheap' carriers (I mention no names) They do not have a responsibility to get you to your destination on time and some are very unco-operative if things go wrong. Could I suggest that, if you can't get 'open jaw' across the atlantic, then factor in buying a sector back to your departure point as an add on to your transatlantic ticket. That way if they screw up, they are responsible for sorting it out!

S_G

Thank-you everyone for your answers.

Change of plans. We are now thinking of flying from USA to Frankfurt. We have friends in Cologne. Would 2 nights be enough for this part of Germany?

We will get 5 day Select Saver Passes for 3 countries.

From Cologne to Interlaken train. Make Interlaken the base and spend 4 nights here.

From Interlaken to Venice train. Stay 2 nights.

Venice to Rome train. Stay 2 nights.

What is the best way of getting to Cologne from Frankfurt? If we use our Eurail Select Saver, is that wasting a day from the pass? Should we take local train or rent a car? We are a family of five.

In Switzerland, again would car rental or Swiss pass make sense?

Should we rent cars in Venice and Rome for local sights?

We are flying out of Frankfurt to Asia. Getting back to Frankfurt from Rome - We still have a day on our train pass. Should we use that and unwind in Frankfurt for a day before taking our flight? or just fly from Rome to Frankfurt?

Thank-you all for great help.

jgg

I am not familiar with Germany and Switzerland so will leave that to others.

Regarding Venice, 2 nights is good, 3 nights would be better. Regarding Rome, 2 nights is really not enough, especially with 5 of you. The train ride from Venice to Rome is about 4 - 41/2 hours which will take up half the day. I would suggest a minimum of 4 days.

That being said, I would still strongly suggest you look into an open jaw ticket. Flying into Frankfurt and out of Rome, this should give you the extra time in Rome that you need.

There are no cars allowed in Venice. You either walk or take the vaporetto (water bus) or a water taxi.

You will not want anything to do with a car in Rome. You really can walk most everywhere in Rome, especially if you pick a central location to stay in. We did not use the bus while we were there, but most people say they are easy to use.

rex

<<If we use our Eurail Select Saver, is that wasting a day from the pass?>>

The waste is if you buy it in the first place. See www.railsaver.com and plug in your itinerary. Train travel in Italy is so bargain-priced that it virtually never makes sense to buy a "rail pass" when the itinerary contains much Italy train travel.

suze

<Should we rent cars in Venice and Rome for local sights?>

There aren't vehicles allowed in the central part Venice. You do your sight-seeing on foot or by boats of various types.

Because of traffic in Rome you might prefer using public transportation instead of attempting to drive a rental car. If you are planning day trips OUTside of the city, then maybe.