lb79

Hi everyone, my husband and I have never taken a vacation and just found out we are able to travel for our 10th wedding anniversary. We've always wanted to visit Europe, and this would be our first time there. We only have about 2 weeks from around April 19 to May 5. We're in our early 30s and thinking to start a family, so sadly, this might be our only opportunity in a long time. We come from a very small town in the US. This would be a BIG dream come true, but we're so overwhelmed right now. I really wish we had more time to research, plan, and save money. Any help you guys might give us would be highly appreciated.

Here is what we're thinking:

1 week in Italy:
-Fly into Rome, spend a night or two here. See Colosseum and Vatican City. Other must sees in Rome?
-Rent a car and drive around, maybe spend a night in Florence, a night in Genoa. Advise on car rentals?
-Stay in Venice for at least 3 days.
-Fly from Venice to Paris.

1 week in France:
-Eiffel Tower
-Other must see places, local restaurants, need a place to stay.

Does this look efficient? Do we need to spend more time in Italy? Is Naples worth the backtrack? Need help finding lodging, yummy food, and other must sees. Would love to hit the popular places but I'm concerned with waiting lines. Also I'm into structural photography, he's into woodworking, machines and cars. Are there any places to look at micro cars? He would love this very much.

Thank you so much in advance for your time and suggestions!

Michael

There's more to Rome than the Coliseum and the Vatican.

Drive around? Aimlessly? Not every road is scenic or worthwhile.

Genoa is in a westerly direction, Venice in a easterly direction. You're wasting a lot of time by going to Genoa. With the little time you have, you need to prioritize.

You need to start reading guidebooks about Italy and Paris to figure out what would really interest you.

For a first time in Europe, Venice, Florence, Rome and fly to Paris would probably do it. But maybe you would not be satisfied with just large cities.

lb79

Thanks for your response, Michael! I am doing as much reading as time allows which is not much. Very overwhelmed as to how to prioritize Italy. No, hopefully not drive around aimlessly, just heading towards connecting flight to Paris. Which are the scenic roads worthwhile? Thanks again for your time.

bilboburgler

well the car centre of Italy is around Bologna/Ferrara/Palma

City centres of many towns are a useless place to take a car, so you may find using the trains (trenitalia) (which in Europe are pleasant and inexpensive) are a better solution

goldenautumn

Given your interest in structural photography and your husband's interest in machinery and cars, a trip to Italy that focused on Rome, the Ferrari factory near Modena, and Venice could really be a thrill for both of you. Most of the time your photography opportunities are going to be more about ancient than modern structure -- Italy just doesn't have all that much modern, although in that sense it is a pity you don't have time for Genova -- but I think you will find it delightful to photograph Rome and what remains of the work of some of the world's greatest architects and engineers. Do NOT miss the Pantheon.

From Rome I suggest you take the train to Modena. Look up the Ferrari factory tours online. They are just outside of Modena in the town of Maranello. You can get there without a car, but spend 2 nights in Modena. It is a great food capital of Italy with beautiful architecture.

In Venice, your husband would probably be extremely interested to see the woodwork in the Scuola dei Carmine, the choir stalls in the church of San Giorgio Maggiore and the gondala repair shops (you can find the address in guidebooks). You will also find a lot to photograph inside and out in Venice, and make a special point of going to the neighborhood of the Arsenale.

For such a brief time in Italy, it really doesn't make sense to rent a car, although if your husband is a car buff, it might be hard to talk him out of it. If you get committed to renting a car, he must read up on Italy's strict laws that forbid non-residents from driving in many parts of the major cities. These "no-go" zones are called a ZTL (zona traffico limitato) and they are monitored by video cameras that record the license plates of violators and mail them tickets with VERY large fines. Rental companies cooperate with the police in providing home addresses, so you really can't get away it.

Use the website booking.com to get the best hotels for your budget.

Hope you have a great time!

isabel

For a first trip, and that amount of time I would not rent a car. Since you come from a small town in the US I think you will be pleasantly surprised how easy and efficient it is to travel in Europe by train. You can see more small towns with a car but for the vast majority of things most people, especially for the first time, want to see, trains are the way to go.

The first day will likely be jet lagged, and there is much to see (and photograph) in Rome - and even the two main sites you mention will take half a day each to see - so I suggest you give Rome four or five days. Then you can do one or two day trips if you want to. In fact, Florence is a reasonable day trip - so you can 'see' it. There is so much in both those cities that many first timers get frustrated when they have too little time. But if you give yourself five days in Rome and just love it so much you don't have to do a day trip. On the other hand if you don't love it you can take a day and go to Florence - and if you really wanted another day and go to Naples, or Pompeii, or numerous other places - all by train.

Then you could stop for a couple of nights in Modena or some other town in that area - Bologna would be a logical stop. This gives you the opportunity to see another place, a smaller city, yet does not add to the total travel time. I say Modena because of the car thing - personally not into cars so I don't know about that, but it's a cute town. I love Bologna.

Then Venice for three days.

Then fly to Paris (check easyjet.com) for the rest of your time.

Book for flights into Rome and home from Paris so you don't have to back track.

lb79

Goodness gracious, you guys are so kind! Thank you SO much for your personalized recommendations!

We looked into car rental because it seemed less expensive than the EuroRail, but it sounds like it is more of a hassle. Thanks for letting us know! What is the best way to get around in the city, then, besides foot? I'm prone to be carrying a lot of gear .

The hopeless romantic in me could stare at the Eiffel Tower all week long, but should we stretch our Italy stay a little longer or what would you recommend in France as well?

Thanks again for taking interest in us. We highly appreciate it!

hollywoodsc

A car is useless in the bigger cities in Italy. Most historic/central areas are pedestrian only or require a permit to drive into, and as mentioned above the fines for entering the restricted zones are ugly! Have you checked out the price of gas? I paid the $8.50-9.00/gallon (comverted) near Rome last Oct, and parking can run you 40 Euros/night.
Trains are a fabulous way to travel. You can relax and enjoy the scenery. The 'fast' train between Rome and Florence only takes 90 minutes. The kiosk in the station is simple to use and signs are easy to follow to the correct track.
I would recommend you stay as close to the center of the cities as possible. The actual room might be a bit more expensive but you'll save on daily transport and the convenience of being able to walk to sights and back to your hotel.
Rome is amazing! It's my favorite city anywhere. Get yourself a good map and highlight some of the major sights you'd like to see. I love 'MapEasy's Guide to Rome' (Florence, Paris, etc) I've gotten them at Barnes and Noble and love them. They have all sorts of tips and show where hotels area, restaurants, shopping areas, etc are. It makes it really easy to see if the hotel you're considering is in a good location for you.
A good day trip from Rome is Ostia Antica. It's the 2000 year old seaport near Rome. It's only a 30 minute train ride and I prefer it to Pompeii.
You can download podcasts of sights (Rick Steves site has some) and listen as you walk.
There's a free walking tour in Rome. It meets every evening at the Keats/Shelley House at the bottom of the Spanish Steps. You'll see the Trevi fountain, the Pantheon, Piazza Navona, etc.
Book a tour of the Roman Forum otherwise it's a jumble of ruins. A tour of the Vatican museum/Sistine Chapel will also get you entrance to St Peter's. You can enter just the church as well but be prepared for lines and security checks if you go on your own.
Regarding your propensity to 'carry a lot of gear' - DON"T!!
Put out everything you plan to take and then put half away. Seriously!
A lot of sights now require your bag to go thru an xray before entering, some will make you leave your bag at the door. Carry as little with you as possible. Another reason to stay as central as possible, so you can stop back at your hotel in the afternoon to rest, put your feet up, change clothes...
But seriously, take less 'stuff' and more money!

janisj

"<i>We looked into car rental because it seemed less expensive than the EuroRail, but it sounds like it is more of a hassle</i>"

Forget about EurRail. Those are railpasses that are expensive - though often they do make sense, not in this situation. You don't need any sort of pass. Trains in Italy tend to be inexpensive.

Then you can fly cheaply to Paris.

AtlTravelr

Is there a specific reason that you want to include Paris on this trip? With two full weeks, focusing only on Italy, you might find it easier to figure out what you want to do/see and also there is so much to see in all of Italy that even two full weeks doesn't begin to touch it all. We've been to Italy 4 times now and we still haven't gotten to Bologna or Genoa which I would love to see. With two full weeks, you could fly into Rome (please spend more than 1 night - it is an incredible city!) and out of Venice. This would leave you time to "backtrack" down to Pompeii/Amalfi Coast area or spend time exploring even more of the small towns in Tuscany, Umbria, etc.

I do think Paris is a wonderful city but it might seem less overwhelming if you concentrated this trip on wonderful Italy!

Sassafrass

All so personal, but if you have two full weeks on the ground, I would cut Paris to 5 days and add 2 to Italy, making that 9. If not, I would do 5 nts (4 days) Paris and 8 nts (7 days) Italy. No car for this trip. You also don't need a Eurail pass, just point to point tickets in Italy and fly to Paris.

Depending on flights, I would probably do the opposite: arrive Venice, train to Bologna or Florence, train to Rome, fly to Paris. Reason: Venice is a nice place to spend your first jet-lagged days and beautiful, easy walking.

Skip Genoa - not enough time.

I prefer Florence to Bologna, but the best food I've had in Italy was in Bologna.

Listen to the advice about taking less stuff, yes, even photo equipment.

No, IMHO, with your short time, Naples is not worth backtracking. You obviously want to savor what you see and take photos, so don't add anything. If you want to cut Venice and North, you could do Rome, Naples and the AC, (fly into Rome and from Naples to Paris), but based on your interests, I would stick with Rome and North.

Paris and all of Italy is so beautiful, you will have a wonderful time no matter where you decide to go. Happy 10th.

goldenautumn

lb79.

There are some photographers who post on this board so once you have figure out your itinerary, put up a separate post asking them about how they tote around their gear. However, cities in Italy are not huge when it comes to the antique parts that are of most interest to visitors. You can walk around Modena in less than an hour. Rome is bigger, but there is public transportation or taxis if your feet start to give out. Venice has water buses or water taxis through the canals, , or very expensive gondola rides -- or else you walk! But is is small.

Paris has an excellent public transit system in case you feel like you want to see more than the Eiffel Tower, including the beautiful public "batobus" boat that goes up and down the Seine.

There are also overnight trains from Venice to Paris. Not everybody can sleep on an overnight train so it might not work for you. (I've know very little about the trip, but there is lots of info on the web.)

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-439074-2.cfm

annhig

lb79,

I well understand the desire to cram in as much as possible [though to be fair you haven't tried half as hard in that direction as many others who arrive here wanting to see 10 cities in as many days] but you need to factor into your travels the time it takes to get from an airport/station to your hotel, check in, accustom yourselves to the place, find what you want to see, etc. etc. Then at the other end is checking out, return to airport or station, hanging about waiting for train or plane, - and that's if they run on time!

so IMO you will have a more satisfactory trip if you don't try to move around too often.

I like GA's suggestions, and i agree that for this trip I'd stick to Italy - there is so much variety that you will not find it at all "samey". I also like Atl travel's idea of adding in the Amalfi, but i would put it towards the end as you are arriving in April and leaving in May.

as you are coming from the US, i suggest flying into Venice [arrivals don't get much more romantic than that] then train to Florence [or Modena!] , train to Naples and thence to the Amalfi, and finally back to Rome to finish your trip and fly home.

if your DH MUST have a car, you could pick one up on leaving Venice, and then tour from there to wherever you want to return it, remembering only that you are better off staying in small places that don't have traffic restrictions [or not such strict ones as in places like Florence]. then continue as above.

have fun planning!

isabel

Photography is one of the main reasons I travel (my photos are here: http://www.pbase.com/annforcier - there are several galleries of Italy photos. But I got tired very fast lugging around an SLR so I travel with a much lighter camera. For the past several years I've used the Panasonic Lumix. I've had several, right now I have the FZ150 and love it. I also carry a smaller 'back-up' camera. Have used Canon Elph but at the moment I'm using the Panasonic LX5. Lugging around a heavy SLR and having to stop to change lenses - just not worth the hassle for me. I'd rather be able to hike up that hill, or climb that bell tower, and walk ten or more miles a day - I think I get better photos that way than spending all my time and energy dealing with lenses and tripods.

ellenem

For trains within italy, look for tickets at the official site:

http://www.fsitaliane.it/homepage_en.html

nytraveler

You can;t use cars in city centers - besides the fact that much is pedestrian only - even in areas that allow parking it's expensive - figure at least $30 per night in a garage (hotels do;t have parking) plus the $100 or so per dayyou would be paying for a car you;re not driving.

Don;t misunderstand me - we hve done many road trips in europe - but not in major cites - that;s for the countryside and smaller towns (and hotels still often don;t have parking and you often have to park outside town walls and walk in.) When we trvel in europe we figure on walking from 8 to 10 miles per day - from hotel to and around sights and back. If you get tires you can grab a cab back - stil way cheaper than a car.

And do realize that driving in europe is NOT like driving in the US. Speeds are higher, drivers are more assertive and there are very strict rules (NO driving in the left land ever - only for passing - as in while you re actually passing with yuor blinker on. Drivers are technically more proficient and expect you to be as well. Also - one off the main roads they are often narrow with perhaps a single lane for passing in the center - and not for the faint of heart. Also, parkig is parallel - not mall-type - and you need to be able to put the car in a space barely biger than it is - on either side (driver or passenger.)

lb79

Wow, I am beyond words! Thank you again! I've not been able to sleep with all the excitement... you describe it as beautiful as I imagine it!

@AtlTravelr and @annhig - Hitting Paris is on the wish list because we don't know when and if we might be able to go back. Our lines of work, finances, and planning for a family only add to the equation. Plus all this warm-blodded girl dreams of is to have a photo with her hubby in front of the Eiffel Tower .

But I really do appreciate everyone's input! You have brought up very good points. And I am taking your advice. We'll cut our stay in Paris short to 2-3 nights so we can enjoy more of Italy, and we'll fly into Venice and work our way south and spend more time in Rome.

I'm counting 16 days on the ground, and I like the point to point train travel ideas so we don't have to move as much. But how does the train system work? Are they flat rate or do I need to purchase in advance to save money? Are they flexible with change in schedules? Do they take walk-ins? I looked at the link @ellenem sent, and I'm trying to figure it out. For example, is $30 US dollars per person for a day trip between Rome to Florence reasonable?

Thanks guys!

janisj

The Man in Seat 61 is like the bible of train travel.

Here is his page that tells you everything you want/need to know about trains in Italy. http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm

isabel

I think with 16 days you can easily include Paris. You won't be able to see "all" of Italy in that amount of time anyway so the only reason not to go to Paris is that it will take the better part of a day. But easyjet has at least three or four flights every day between Rome and Paris, for under €50 so it 's not that big a deal. But if you are going to time and expense to get to Paris then I would spend more than 2-3 days. I think 4-5 days would give you a more realistic chance of having a satisfying experience.

I suggest you fly into Venice, spend 3 days, train to one other area and spend 3 days, then to Rome for 5 days and then fly to Paris 5 days. That lets you experience three major destinations plus one more smaller one (people were mentioning Modena but there are many other small cities between Venice and Rome that would be enjoyable). And with five days in Rome and Paris you have time to do a day trip from each if you want.

You can pretty much go anywhere in Italy by just showing up at the train station and getting a 'point to point' ticket the day you want to go. Obviously if you check the on-line schedules you can structure your time better. You can get better prices in some cases if you buy in advance but for relatively short trips you aren't talking huge amounts of money. And unless you are traveling at a few very specific holiday periods, you don't need to worry about a train getting 'sold out'.

There are several different types of trains - slow Regional trains that make lots of stops and therefore might take several hours to go from point a to point b, but only cost a few euro. Then there are IC (intercity) and ES (eurostar) trains which are faster, don't make as many stops and therefore get from point A to point B in half the time but cost more. The trenitalia site (http://www.fsitaliane.it/homepage_en.html) is easy to use. For example, from Venice to Bologna there are trains that take 1 hour eleven minutes and cost €30 or trains that take 2 hours, price not listed but probably about €10. You could buy the more expensive ones online in advance, but not the cheaper ones - you'd just them a few minutes before you wanted to travel.

From Rome to Florence it looks like the regular fare is about €43 per person each way for a train that takes less than an hour and a half. You might be able to get a promo fee. They have lots of promo fees for as low as €9. If you do a search on this forum you'll find lots of threads about how to get those promo fees.

carmar

You must be so excited about the 1st. trip to Europe - I remember mine as I was standing in Vatican City looking at St. Peter's thinking "I can't believe a small town girl like me is in Italy!"

I'm going against what everyone else is says about transportation. We always rent a car and it's quite an experience - your husband shouldn't pass this up. Take a train from Rome to Florence and then rent a car and drive around Tuscany to see the small villages - this is where you see the real Italy. Drive to Venice and drop the car off. When you're done seeing this unforgetable city, fly to Paris.

We use AutoEurope.com for every trip. Look online 1st. to where all the rentals are located and then give them a call. After I book a car, I keep checking back to see if the price is lower. If so, they will give you a credit but they'll never charge you more.

Have a wonderful trip and remember, whatever you do, you can't do it wrong.