Europe in 5 month
Dec 3rd, 2014, 09:09 AM
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Europe in 5 month
Hi, my wife and I are in the initial stages of planning a 4-5 month trip to Europe from Boston US.
Starting next December (2015), we would like to see the following countries (not necessary in this order):
France; Belgium; Germany; Vienna; Prague; Budapest ; Italy/Sicily; Greece; Turkey; Cyprus Israel.
We were thinking to start in France or Germany and end our trip in Israel to be able to relax somewhere on the beach.
I would appreciate any advise I could get from this Forum on planning such a trip.
What should we look at to cover all the logistics of such a long trip?
What cities should we visit in each country and for how long, is it worth it to go some of them?
We are not thinking of a trip on a shoestring budget, as we are not that young (late 50s). and would not have the stamina for staying in hostels, but we would like to have it on a moderate budget and get a good sense on what should we expect for expenses.
Thank you all.
Greetings from Boston.
Michael.
Starting next December (2015), we would like to see the following countries (not necessary in this order):
France; Belgium; Germany; Vienna; Prague; Budapest ; Italy/Sicily; Greece; Turkey; Cyprus Israel.
We were thinking to start in France or Germany and end our trip in Israel to be able to relax somewhere on the beach.
I would appreciate any advise I could get from this Forum on planning such a trip.
What should we look at to cover all the logistics of such a long trip?
What cities should we visit in each country and for how long, is it worth it to go some of them?
We are not thinking of a trip on a shoestring budget, as we are not that young (late 50s). and would not have the stamina for staying in hostels, but we would like to have it on a moderate budget and get a good sense on what should we expect for expenses.
Thank you all.
Greetings from Boston.
Michael.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 09:39 AM
#3
Looks like you would have to spend 2 of those 5 months in Israel, but you would need to check how much time you are allowed there.
http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/sche...ountries-list/
http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/sche...ountries-list/
Dec 3rd, 2014, 10:55 AM
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I would appreciate any advise I could get from this Forum on planning such a trip.>
Well are you going by car, train, plane, bike, thumb, etc or a mixture?
Trains are fantastic - goin gup to nearly 200 mph in many countries - mix in a few flights for long distances or take the many overnight trains where you save time and the cost of a hotel.
anyway if pondering trains some great sites for general planning of a European rail trip: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com. If taking several longish trains in different countries investigate some kind of railpass.
Well are you going by car, train, plane, bike, thumb, etc or a mixture?
Trains are fantastic - goin gup to nearly 200 mph in many countries - mix in a few flights for long distances or take the many overnight trains where you save time and the cost of a hotel.
anyway if pondering trains some great sites for general planning of a European rail trip: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com. If taking several longish trains in different countries investigate some kind of railpass.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 12:08 PM
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<Did not understand Kybourbon's comment on 'would have to spend 2 of those 5 in Israel?>
I believe KY is referring to the fact that you cannot spend more than 90 days in the Schengen countries, of which all of the chosen countries are part of, except Israel. Therefore you would spend three months in the Schengen countries and the other two months in Israel.
I believe KY is referring to the fact that you cannot spend more than 90 days in the Schengen countries, of which all of the chosen countries are part of, except Israel. Therefore you would spend three months in the Schengen countries and the other two months in Israel.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 12:14 PM
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From the website:
<If you are a U.S. citizen with a valid U.S. passport traveling for tourism or business, you can apply to enter the Schengen area without a visa for a period of three months within each six-month period. If you spend three months in the Schengen area during any six-month period, you must wait another three months before you can apply to enter the Schengen area again without a visa. If you do not meet these conditions, or plan to stay in the Schengen area longer than three months, contact the embassy of the country where you plan to spend the majority of your time to apply for a visa.>
http://travel.state.gov/content/pass...act-sheet.html
<If you are a U.S. citizen with a valid U.S. passport traveling for tourism or business, you can apply to enter the Schengen area without a visa for a period of three months within each six-month period. If you spend three months in the Schengen area during any six-month period, you must wait another three months before you can apply to enter the Schengen area again without a visa. If you do not meet these conditions, or plan to stay in the Schengen area longer than three months, contact the embassy of the country where you plan to spend the majority of your time to apply for a visa.>
http://travel.state.gov/content/pass...act-sheet.html
Dec 3rd, 2014, 12:21 PM
#8
Sorry, but if you are not aware of Schengen you are waaaaay too early to start planning such a trip. That is the very first basic thing you need to study up on. One can't just jump on a plane and spend 4 or 5 months in most of Europe.
So the short answer is -- you can't do this unless two months is spent in Israel (or in non-schengen countries such as the UK)
So maybe instead of biting off such a long trip, cut it back to what you can legally do.
So the short answer is -- you can't do this unless two months is spent in Israel (or in non-schengen countries such as the UK)
So maybe instead of biting off such a long trip, cut it back to what you can legally do.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 12:46 PM
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Turkey and Cyprus are not Schengen treaty members, so that's three countries including Israel for the two extra months.
http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/sche...ountries-list/
http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/sche...ountries-list/
Dec 3rd, 2014, 12:57 PM
#10
Yes -- 2/5 of the trip could be spent in Turkey/Cyprus/Israel.
That would squeeze 8 countries into 3 months which is doable but possibly not what the OP had in mind. That is why I suggested they need to study up on Schengen before even starting to plan this.
That would squeeze 8 countries into 3 months which is doable but possibly not what the OP had in mind. That is why I suggested they need to study up on Schengen before even starting to plan this.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 01:22 PM
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I would reverse the order and start in Israel rather than freeze in Europe in mid winter. Plus, I like going to the farthest point first so the trip home is shorter.
The UK is not part of Schengen so you could visit there at the end when your Schengen time is up. Fly home from London, Dublin, or Shannon.
Hostels are not the places of the 1960s. They've been renovated to include single/double rooms ensuite, online booking and ratings. You don't need to spend every night in hostels but if you're watching your budget you should consider hostels. They're sometimes more costly than inexpensive hotels as you pay per person but they can be bargains in expensive locations.
Consider apartments if you're staying several days in one location. These are usually cheaper than hotels, most offer washing machines, you'll have more room to relax and get away from each other (5 months is a long time for togetherness), and can stock the fridge with supermarket/street market food much cheaper than eating in restaurants.
As to budget, it's difficult to give guidance since you don't know where you will be nor for how long. Small towns are cheaper than cities; France and Italy are more expensive than Germany and Turkey is very inexpensive. You'll be spending more in some places and less in others.
Lodging is not the only budget consideration. Food and transportation will make up a great portion of your funds, especially as you plan to go to so many places.
Booking train tickets 60 to 90 days ahead will offer discounted fares and buses are almost always the cheapest way to travel.
Get a copy of Let's Go for budget travel help.
The UK is not part of Schengen so you could visit there at the end when your Schengen time is up. Fly home from London, Dublin, or Shannon.
Hostels are not the places of the 1960s. They've been renovated to include single/double rooms ensuite, online booking and ratings. You don't need to spend every night in hostels but if you're watching your budget you should consider hostels. They're sometimes more costly than inexpensive hotels as you pay per person but they can be bargains in expensive locations.
Consider apartments if you're staying several days in one location. These are usually cheaper than hotels, most offer washing machines, you'll have more room to relax and get away from each other (5 months is a long time for togetherness), and can stock the fridge with supermarket/street market food much cheaper than eating in restaurants.
As to budget, it's difficult to give guidance since you don't know where you will be nor for how long. Small towns are cheaper than cities; France and Italy are more expensive than Germany and Turkey is very inexpensive. You'll be spending more in some places and less in others.
Lodging is not the only budget consideration. Food and transportation will make up a great portion of your funds, especially as you plan to go to so many places.
Booking train tickets 60 to 90 days ahead will offer discounted fares and buses are almost always the cheapest way to travel.
Get a copy of Let's Go for budget travel help.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 01:37 PM
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OP, "What cities should we visit in each country and for how long, is it worth it to go (to) some of them?"
What cities to visit and for how long depends on your interests: art, music, architecture, history, food, hiking, sports, archeological sites, walled villages and cities, etc. If you love art, you will want places with great museums. If you like architecture, you will want places with interesting churches, cathedrals, (Barcelona for Gaudi or Vicenza for Paladio, etc.). If you are interested in archeological sites, you might want to see Pompeii or Ephesus. Only you can determine if a place would be worth it or not.
Where have you traveled before? What did you find you enjoyed: sitting at cafes, hiking on trails, visiting major sights, wine tasting, etc?
Have you any interest in countryside areas? Of course they are different, but big cities all have some things in common while smaller towns and villages often are more culturally reflective of the specific country. Therefore, to get a real feeling for a country, you need to explore some more rural or less metropolitan places.
You are in your 50s. So, as well as considering your specific interests, what places have you dreamed of seeing for your whole lives? You might start with those.
Why did you pick December to start? Unless you are looking to ski, winter in most of Europe means mostly indoor activities and being bundled up - pretty much the same as Boston though in some places, less snow.
You seem to have plenty of time, so why not consider two trips - one later in the Spring and one in early Fall?
How you travel depends on your final itinerary.
What cities to visit and for how long depends on your interests: art, music, architecture, history, food, hiking, sports, archeological sites, walled villages and cities, etc. If you love art, you will want places with great museums. If you like architecture, you will want places with interesting churches, cathedrals, (Barcelona for Gaudi or Vicenza for Paladio, etc.). If you are interested in archeological sites, you might want to see Pompeii or Ephesus. Only you can determine if a place would be worth it or not.
Where have you traveled before? What did you find you enjoyed: sitting at cafes, hiking on trails, visiting major sights, wine tasting, etc?
Have you any interest in countryside areas? Of course they are different, but big cities all have some things in common while smaller towns and villages often are more culturally reflective of the specific country. Therefore, to get a real feeling for a country, you need to explore some more rural or less metropolitan places.
You are in your 50s. So, as well as considering your specific interests, what places have you dreamed of seeing for your whole lives? You might start with those.
Why did you pick December to start? Unless you are looking to ski, winter in most of Europe means mostly indoor activities and being bundled up - pretty much the same as Boston though in some places, less snow.
You seem to have plenty of time, so why not consider two trips - one later in the Spring and one in early Fall?
How you travel depends on your final itinerary.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 01:45 PM
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Turkey requires it's own visa which can be applied for online.
Even though Cyprus is not a Schengen member, anyone who needs a visa for Cyprus and has a schengen visa can enter Cyprus with it (as long as the first port of entry was a schengen country) and stay until the visa expires. Fortunately for US citizens, a visa is not required for Cyprus and they can stay for 90 days.
Even though Cyprus is not a Schengen member, anyone who needs a visa for Cyprus and has a schengen visa can enter Cyprus with it (as long as the first port of entry was a schengen country) and stay until the visa expires. Fortunately for US citizens, a visa is not required for Cyprus and they can stay for 90 days.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 03:45 PM
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Agree that you seem to be doing the trip backwards. There is no way I would start in the dead of winter - and if I did I would try to start in a warmer place - but while Cyprus isn't bad even Israel and esp Turkey have real winters.
And the other places all have real winters and very short days - since they are pretty far north of Boston.
I would be more likely to start the trip in March in the south and then head north and west - to get better weather.
But you need to be VERY careful about the Schengen countries - the 90 limit is very solid and if you overstay the fines can be significant (and they may easily pick you up when you fly out of the country).
As for what to see and do - we know nothing about you or your interests. I know when I go I want to see every museum, castle and cathedral - and other historic sights. But some people go for wine tasting and fine dining - or hiking - or exploring small villages - or even shopping (NOT reommended since things are so much more than in the US in most of the countries named).
And the other places all have real winters and very short days - since they are pretty far north of Boston.
I would be more likely to start the trip in March in the south and then head north and west - to get better weather.
But you need to be VERY careful about the Schengen countries - the 90 limit is very solid and if you overstay the fines can be significant (and they may easily pick you up when you fly out of the country).
As for what to see and do - we know nothing about you or your interests. I know when I go I want to see every museum, castle and cathedral - and other historic sights. But some people go for wine tasting and fine dining - or hiking - or exploring small villages - or even shopping (NOT reommended since things are so much more than in the US in most of the countries named).
Dec 3rd, 2014, 04:33 PM
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Thank you so much everybody - tons and tons of great information. The Shengen discussion is exactly what we were hoping for when we asked for help. Definitely need to study up but wasn't even something we had on the horizon. We have been traveling a lot and have been to almost all of these countries once before - but usually on short vacations, 7-14 days. This is an attempt to go back and really explore them at a more leisurely pace, not a city per day.
We love museums, architecture, history, wine tasting and fine dining lol. Not really outdoorsy types, although wouldn't miss a gorgeous natural spot either. No hiking though.
Were hoping to start in December to get away from the Boston winter, but definitely looking to do some skiing in France and possibly Spain. The logic was that some of these places (like Prague, Budapest and Vienna) would be just as interesting in the winter as in the spring, as architecture, culture are the main attractions. Vienna at Christmas seemed like a good place to be. But we are definitely taking to heart all the advice and will revise the order of events to reflect.
So, I have a couple of quick follow up questions. Is the 90 days for Shengen an absolute limit or does it mean that you will have to apply to all the individual countries visas to stay longer? Will it be cost prohibitive to do so?
We are also concerned about the medical insurance. Never having been on such a long trip - would the normal travel insurance cover it, be awfully expensive or are there other options we should research?
We don't necessarily have lots of time, this is more of a sabbatical and then opportunities be again more limited.
Thanks again!
We love museums, architecture, history, wine tasting and fine dining lol. Not really outdoorsy types, although wouldn't miss a gorgeous natural spot either. No hiking though.
Were hoping to start in December to get away from the Boston winter, but definitely looking to do some skiing in France and possibly Spain. The logic was that some of these places (like Prague, Budapest and Vienna) would be just as interesting in the winter as in the spring, as architecture, culture are the main attractions. Vienna at Christmas seemed like a good place to be. But we are definitely taking to heart all the advice and will revise the order of events to reflect.
So, I have a couple of quick follow up questions. Is the 90 days for Shengen an absolute limit or does it mean that you will have to apply to all the individual countries visas to stay longer? Will it be cost prohibitive to do so?
We are also concerned about the medical insurance. Never having been on such a long trip - would the normal travel insurance cover it, be awfully expensive or are there other options we should research?
We don't necessarily have lots of time, this is more of a sabbatical and then opportunities be again more limited.
Thanks again!
Dec 3rd, 2014, 05:53 PM
#16
>>So, I have a couple of quick follow up questions. Is the 90 days for Shengen an absolute limit <<
Yes -- it is a <u>firm</u> 90 days w/i any 180 day period.
>>the medical insurance. Never having been on such a long trip - would the normal travel insurance cover it<<
There is travel insurance that covers medical and ( even more important IMO) medical evacuation coverage. but you have lots of research to do. Start w/ insuremytrip.com which is a site that lets you compare different companies/coverage.
You really need to do this homework first (Schnegen/ins/etc)
I honestly don't understand traveling to northern Europe to escape Boston winter. Have you heard of the Battle of the Bulge? - Belgium in December . . . . nuff said.
Yes -- it is a <u>firm</u> 90 days w/i any 180 day period.
>>the medical insurance. Never having been on such a long trip - would the normal travel insurance cover it<<
There is travel insurance that covers medical and ( even more important IMO) medical evacuation coverage. but you have lots of research to do. Start w/ insuremytrip.com which is a site that lets you compare different companies/coverage.
You really need to do this homework first (Schnegen/ins/etc)
I honestly don't understand traveling to northern Europe to escape Boston winter. Have you heard of the Battle of the Bulge? - Belgium in December . . . . nuff said.
Dec 3rd, 2014, 10:07 PM
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Starting in Dec., you may get away from Boston, but sure will not get away from winter!
There is an amazing winter event in Basel, Switzerland that is, IMHO, worth a trip in winter. That is Fasnacht Basel! In 2016, I think it starts around Feb 16 and you absolutely would want to be there for the very beginning when the entire city is lights out, so you can see the gigantic painted lanterns. Look up images. It is without doubt one of the most beautiful and interesting events I have ever seen. There are others in nearby towns during the same time frame. Be prepared for bone-chilling cold. Enough hot wine (and fur boots and gloves) will see you through. We went to Europe one winter just for these events and it was well worth it. I would love to do it again!
There is an amazing winter event in Basel, Switzerland that is, IMHO, worth a trip in winter. That is Fasnacht Basel! In 2016, I think it starts around Feb 16 and you absolutely would want to be there for the very beginning when the entire city is lights out, so you can see the gigantic painted lanterns. Look up images. It is without doubt one of the most beautiful and interesting events I have ever seen. There are others in nearby towns during the same time frame. Be prepared for bone-chilling cold. Enough hot wine (and fur boots and gloves) will see you through. We went to Europe one winter just for these events and it was well worth it. I would love to do it again!
Dec 4th, 2014, 01:17 AM
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You wrote: "We were thinking to start in France or Germany <i>and end our trip in Israel to be able to relax somewhere on the beach.</i>"
I don't think the people who advised you to reverse the order of your trip read that sentence very carefully. December is definitely not beach weather in Israel, Cyprus, or anywhere in southern Europe. Beach resorts are dreary places in winter.
If you want to end your trip with days on the beach, save the Mediterranean countries for last. I do agree with nytraveler's suggestion to delay your trip until March, though. That way the worst of the winter weather will be over in northern Europe, and you will be arriving in the south at the best part of summer.
I don't think the people who advised you to reverse the order of your trip read that sentence very carefully. December is definitely not beach weather in Israel, Cyprus, or anywhere in southern Europe. Beach resorts are dreary places in winter.
If you want to end your trip with days on the beach, save the Mediterranean countries for last. I do agree with nytraveler's suggestion to delay your trip until March, though. That way the worst of the winter weather will be over in northern Europe, and you will be arriving in the south at the best part of summer.
Dec 4th, 2014, 01:29 AM
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I think the order of the countries is fine. There is nothing wrong with winter in Europe and is unlikely to be anything as extreme as Boston. Some countries celebrate Christmas in January which is interesting and they embrace the snow and winter. As the saying goes, there is no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes. And if you want skiing then it's the perfect time to visit the ski resorts. Ending your time in places such as Cyprus and Israel for a beach holiday in the summer is perfect, bear in mind though these countries are extremely hot during July/August.
