We did an 8am Vatican museum tour entrance with Walks of Italy. I personally am willing to pay for the privilege and a sure thing.

I can say that we went with Stuart who is excellent as a guide and well worth the expense. We went straight to the Sistine Chapel and got to see it before is git crowded, then went back to the beginning and worked our way through the museums, before re-entering the now crowded Sistine Chapel and on into St Peter's where our tour concluded. We learned a lot and Stuart is a masterful tour guide.

I do recomend it! The tour name is Pristine Sistine and is 84 euros per person.

For your tour, are you talking, guided tour of the museums or just entrance tickets?

I also am interested in this information. If you do not do an outside tour, and you enter the museum in the earliest group on your own, are the crowds smaller and an you go directly to the Sistene Chapel then enter the other museum Exhibits?

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, I am comparing guided tour to guided tour. Presto Tour and Walks of Italy (and I am sure others) provide a guided pre-opening tour, but you pay for the privilege. The problem with my situation is I have to pay for five which of course, magnifies the premium!

Cindy, I'm pretty sure that there is no way to get into the museums before-hours without the guided tour. Good question though as to whether going with the earliest group would be helpful.

I guess I personally don't understand why the Vatican would allow private tour operators to put money in their pockets and give access that others don't have. Unless they are getting a cut. Or maybe they believe those tours truly provide a way for people to enjoy more fully the wonders of the Vatican.

I know I may be accused of being naive, but just my viewpoint.

Cindywho, the Vatican is no different than any other entity in the world. They have priceless art that people want to see, so they will charge for you to see that. I assume that the tours that operate do have to give the Vatican a cut. It's the way of the world, religion associated or not.

Tour or not, you have to pay (in most cases). So, there are some that can't afford private tours and there are some who can't afford admission to the museums, at all. They do have some days when admission is free.

Surely you know that the Vatican operates it's own bank (IOR), overseen by 5 cardinals.

You can get into the museums without a tour but not at 8am. The tickets you buy directly from the Vatican are for entrance between 9am and 4pm. The price ranges from 4-15 euros. There are certain days when admission is free.They do allow museum patrons and donors free admission as well as some professors, some disabled persons and others (all on their website)

>>>I guess I personally don't understand why the Vatican would allow private tour operators to put money in their pockets and give access that others don't have. Unless they are getting a cut.<<<

Until a year or so ago, the Vatican allowed tour groups only between 8-10 and then the general public after 10. That lasted only a year or two. It doesn't seem like all tour operators have access to early entrance so I would imagine the Vatican does get a fee from the tour companies.

My husband and I did an 8am tour that had 6 of us, with Italy with Us http://www.italywithus.com/daily-vip-8am-vatican-tours.php. We had about 20 minutes in the Sistine Chapel with no more than about 30 other people, mainly all sitting round the sides, so the chapel really did seem empty and was very quiet. It was also great to walk through the impressive Map Room and all the other rooms, on our way to the chapel, and see them totally empty - take photos now. The rooms after the Sistine Chapel were also empty so we benefitted from that too. Both Map Room and Chapel were heaving when we went back round later.

I think it is certainly worth the extra money as we saw a lot of the museum empty as we headed straight for the chapel and our guide was telling us stuff as we passed through, the chapel was empty, the rooms immediately after the chapel were empty so it was only as we swung back round towards the start that we ran into the crowds and huge tour groups.

The Vatican (and no doubt other establishments) are only too happy to encourage tour groups because I dare say that more visitors could be spirited (oops) through due to a set time duration rather than have "hang around" independents clogging up the corridors. Just a guess....

Thanks guys - I will take a look at Italywithusas well. It sounds as if nobody is disappointed with the early tours. I'm still on the fence because of the extra money. Oh what the heck -- I'm paying off Visa until July instead of June!

I was wondering though, whether St. Peter's Basilica at 7am, and being one of the first to climb at 8am would be pretty cool too.

Plenty ways to skin the cat, but what worked for us was to go to St. Peters first (ascend with no line), then tour inside, break for lunch and then hit the Vatican. At that time there were no lines for entry.

Photo of late afternoon line for the cupola in my blog if interested:

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/rome-with-kids-blog-photos.cfm

Late October visit. Self guided w/ guidebook.

Good luck.

We did an early tour with Walks of Italy (the Pristine Sistine) this past March and thought it was fabulous. We were lucky to be the only ones on the tour.

Wow Pat -- did that mean that you were the only people in the Sistine Chapel? That would be so wonderful!

IndyDad, I actually came up with the idea to visit St. Peter's early in the morning from your blog which I read a few weeks ago(very helpful I must say). Did you find the Sistine Chapel overly packed when you went back in the afternoon?

Well, I've only been the one time so I don't know what normal is. It was fairly crowded. All the seats along the side were occupied and plenty of folks in the middle as well. Plenty of room to move around and check things out though so I guess I wouldn't call it overly packed.

I would recommend reading up on it before you go so you know a little of what to expect and what to look for.

Depending on where you are staying, could you do the 8am tour one morning and visit St Peter's and climb the dome early another morning? You would be finished by about 9am so ready to continue whatever you had planned for that day. It might make for a bit of a long day but you would be able to do both your ideas.

If you decide to do St Peter's first and then go straight on to the museums you will probably be getting there 9.30/10ish which is the normally the most crowded time of day.

No we weren't the only ones in the Sistine Chapel, but there were fewer than 20 people in there at the time. When we went back through later it was wall to wall people.

If you can afford it, go for the private tour. The lines can be hours long. I know from hard experience that it's better to do the private tour. The lines for the dome at St. Peter's area also long, but there's no way around that.

Well, I was pretty much convinced to book the early morning group tour with Presto at 54E pp but Presto doesn't book group tours during the winter. Therefore, I would be forced into Walks of Italy for 85E pp. That would make the tour 300E more than the Vatican sponsered tour. That is a lot for us. I have to think some more. Oh, to have unlimited funds . . .

How much is a once in a lifetime experience worth?

Laura, I don't want to be the 'doom and gloom' poster but have you checked availabilty for any of your tour options (Vatican or private) esp for a group of 5 on what must be the busiest day (Dec 24) for the Vatican museums?

Also if you decided to DIY and just wanted reserved entry tickets esp early AM are they still available with 5 open slots?

As you know it's going to be a mob scene that day and your plan of attack has 3 major battles as I see it.

1. Avoiding the long security line at St. Peter's Basilica and 1a. any long line for the Cupula.

2. Avoiding the long entry line for the Vatican Museums.

3. Avoiding the mob getting to and inside the Sistine Chapel.

An early AM tour which exits the Sistine Chapel over to the S.P. Basilica will win all 3 except 1a.

*If* a tour isn't an option for either price or availability I'm afraid you'll have to pick your winning battle and lose the other.

Back to the *If* you know you can win 1 & 1a by getting to the Basilica ~opening time but the visit, climb and walk over will leave you with a long Vatican Museums line.

*If* for 2. & 3. you get on line long before the ticket office opens and later beeline to the Sistine Chapel which might work?

Now if you want to pass on audioguides and visiting the rest of the Museum there is the *possibility* that you could exit the 'Tour Group Only' door in the Chapel and then go straight over to the Basilica and win all 3 battles except for 1a .

But there is the chance that you might not be allowed to exit (Not my past experience but I recall fairly recent posts (1yr) on Rick Steves 'Graffiti Wall' where the posters said they were not allowed to exit).

Well Good Luck! Regards, Walter

Thanks Walter and everyone else. I love this site and all the opinions that come with it!

It has occurred to me that the crowds on December 24 will be brutal in that the museums are closed on the preceding day (Sunday) and the following two days. The Vatican hasn't released December 24th reservations yet, and one of the tour groups had availability on the 24th last week (I haven't checked any others), but yes, I would need to reserve ASAP to ensure five slots.

If I suck it up and pay for an early tour of the museums and then the lines to climb the cupola turn out to be impossibly long afterwards, we could take CarrieAnn's suggestion to climb the Cupula on a different morning -- thus avoiding the issues with 1a as well. Worst case scenario would be that we don't get to climb at all. That would be too bad, but not tragic. (As far as the secret door is concerned, I am such a rule-follower, I probably wouldn't attempt to sneak out of the wrong door. If I did, I'd feel guilty for hours afterwards and if I got yelled at by a guard, I'd probably cry.)

OK, back to the books to figure out what to cut out so that I can aford the luxury of an early entrance. I've already got us eating nothing but pizza and panini for two weeks. Good thing nobody in this family is a real "foodie."

"(As far as the secret door is concerned, I am such a rule-follower, I probably wouldn't attempt to sneak out of the wrong door. If I did, I'd feel guilty for hours afterwards and if I got yelled at by a guard, I'd probably cry.)"

<Smile>

So 'Walks of Italy' @ 425e total cost which includes tickets & reservation free.

The big benefit with them is early admission ~8 before the main ticket office opens at 9 plus it's a small group 10-12 with very likey a knowledgeable tour guide who I assume will answer some questions.

www.enjoyrome.com @ 265e total cost including tickets & reservation fee.

Downside; Admission at 9am at the same time when the main ticket office opens.

Now I don't see that as possibly a major problem but just guessing here.

The general admission crowd probably left their hotel ~7 many will be hitting the wc's, checking daypacks, renting audioguides, buying guidebooks or hitting the gift shops for Aunty Em.

Those that aren't; I think the vast majority will begin touring the museums rather than beelining to the Sistine Chapel to avoid the mob scene (that's what I did on my 1st visit).

It's a LARGE group tour vs a more personal smaller group.

But you will get commentary and info via the headphones of what you are seeing.

Remember a small group or a large group you will only see the highlights in a timed visit not everything the museum has to offer.
Regards, Walter

Laura -Italy with Us do a two hour 8am tour for 50 euros, max tour group size is 20, the info is under the pic of the Sistine Chapel on the link below. I don't know if it takes you into St Peter's or not http://www.italywithus.com/daily-vip-8am-vatican-tours.php

Thanks for the heads up CarrieAnn! I went ahead and reserved with Italy for Us for 8AM on Christmas Eve. It is a shorter tour (and a larger group) than the others, but far less money and we get to go in early! The tour doesn't include St. Peter's, but I thing that is preferable to me. That way we can double back and take a look at some of the other Vatican Museum rooms that aren't included on the tour (and hopefully won't be as crowded). Also, my photographer daugher can spend as much time as she likes taking pictures of those beautiful exit stairs. I hope they allow that. . .

I need to stop worrying about this.