Dynamic Currency Conversion Scam is in Scotland too

I doubt Visa minds at all. Don't you think Visa is very happy about the merchants pulling this over on unsuspecting tourists? Afterall they are getting their markup based on the transaction amount. So if the amount is higher - gee -- extra profit to visa.

90% of travelers will have no clue DCC is a rip off, and probably even fewer know they can insist which currency to use.

If the core of this is that they are telling a flat lie to obtain money (i.e., telling you you have no choice when you do, and telling Visa that you accept their rate when you don't), it's not up to Visa to police it, it's up to the police: because at one or the other stage, it is an attempt to obtain money by deception. The clerk may not have any personal discretion about it or understanding of the issues, but the manager certainly should, whatever 'company policy' says. I've never met this when using a credit card outside my own country, but if I did I would certainly threaten with the police. And even if that makes them back down, in the UK you could and should report them to the local Trading Standards Office. There must be something in the process by which the company gets whatever financial status it needs to deal with Visa that requires a degree of probity and honesty that this sort of thing invalidates. At the very least, it might be a contravention of the Misleading Prices legislation.

I'm curious as to what establishments are trying to pull this. I'd certainly like to avoid them on my upcoming trip to Scotland.

It happened to me in Ireland in May of last year. First place was the Pro Shop at Ballybunion. After I checked my receipts I found that it happened in heavily concentrated tourist areas/gift shops, i.e. a $100 sweater would cost you $103 if someone used the DCC with you.

I think this is a matter of consumer fraud, also, if they tell lies about the matter (such as that it is only information, and you won't be charged the USD), and if they are saying the customer was given a choice when they weren't. I don't think the policeman on the street usually gets involved with these things, though, although agencies and states' attorneys might.

I'm not sure Visa gains from it, though, but I forget all the gory details. I think Visa's commission may still be based on the local currency.

I haven't traveled in places that do this yet, and hate to have to tell everyone not to charge in dollars when handing over a CC as it rather spoils the mood to be aggressive for no purpose -- but, I was wondering if anyone had heard of this taking place in Canada yet as I'm going there in a few weeks?

No, I haven't heard of it yet in Canada, but I did just get my credit card statement from my recent trip and see that there was a 3% charge on all my Canadian credit card charges. Some here had said recently that they thought that wasn't charged for Canadian charges with a US card, but it certainly was with my Citibank one.

Can someone repeat where to download that official statement that one could carry with you to Europe that explains how you must be given the option to pay in local currency on a charge? It would be nice to have a copy of that to hand over if the issue came up.

Patrick,
You can read VISA's FAQ's on Dynamic Currency Conversion here:
www.corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_ex_faq.jsp#faq5

Judy

I found this link on google.
http://www.planetpayment.com/CurrConv_mer.cfm

"Planet Payment's dynamic currency conversion service provides merchants, across all industry verticals, a powerful tool that will dramatically impact the bottom line – both by closing more international sales and earning a commission on each DCC transaction."

Notice the screen "DID CUSTOMER CONSENT TO DCC PARTICIPATION?"

I'll keep on the alert, in any case, especially since my own cards don't have a fee except the one pct Visa one.

My cards' disclosures all refer to these kind of charges as "foreign currency charges" or something, I don't know why Canada would be exempt. My cards don't exempt any country by name.

Christina, the "Foreign currency charge" is not the same as dynamic currency conversion. All card issuers impose some charge for conversion, i.e., when the transaction is done in Euros, Visa charges something for its conversion of the charge into dollars.
With DCC the conversion is done by the merchant and Visa does no conversion. However, some card issuers impose their "foreign" fee for all foreign TRANSACTIONs, including those converted to dollars by the merchant. In that case, the bank adds its 2 percent to the amount that was already inflated for the the merchant to take his gravy of 2 or 3 percent.

I think some of you are missing a basic point. Dynamic currency conversion can't be done without your knowledge of it being done at the time. You HAVE to sign a charge slip and when it comes to you it should be in the local currency. If it isn't, but is in dollars instead -- then you're a victim and you need to put up a fuss. So long as you have a copy of the original bill in the local currency which you signed -- they can't change it later.

Meanwhile, maybe the best bet is, if they make a huge issue, pick up the slip unsigned and start to walk out without signing and giving them a copy. Maybe they'll call the police and the police can then arrest the ones who are really doing the illegal and fraudulent activity -- the restaurant manager. Of course, I realize I'm only dreaming -- but in theory it sounds good.

I would like to make a modest suggestion. If it is a hotel, review it on tripadvisor.com or [if listed] on fodors or venere.com including the currency scam info. The same if it is a restaurant. If enough of you who have been hit by this scam do that someone might take notice. I would also report the establishments to both your visa card issuer and the main visa corporation. So far I haven't been hit, but if you have, there are some powerful internet tools available for you to get the word out and have some effect.

DCC is spreading all over the UK. I have run into in England and Scotland, hotels primarily. I was successful in getting the bill redone in £ in England at the hotels that pulled it (after much fuss). The Scotland one, the clerk claimed that no choice was given to him and only USD came up. I showed him that the charge slip stated that I was given a choice and had accepted the conversion rate used. He said he couldn't redo it and no manager was around. However, he did refund the amount charged in cash (£) as a way to cancel the charge (small bill).

I was not given a choice. Even when I asked to be charged in £. FYI, the rates used in my DCC attempts were 10¢ higher than the official rate.

I'm not a lawyer but I am a passionately patriotic Scot who takes it as a slap in the face when any hotel or other establishment tries to XXXX on our reputation for hospitality by ripping off visitors. Assuming you are in a party of more than one (in Scots Law, two testimonies are needed to establish any fact) my advice would be:- before you go in to any hotel, restaurant etc, check what cards they advertise as accepting. Before you commit to a booking, or to ordering a meal, ask if you can have your card charged in the currency of your choosing, and ask for the exchange rate. You are now in charge. When the time comes to pay, offer to pay with the previously agreed card in the previously agreed currency. Make sure the person who was with you when you agreed the ground rules is also present when you offer to pay. If you get any XXXX, say in these exact words "My bill for services from your establishment is XXX pounds sterling. You previously agreed in the presence of witnesses that I could settle this bill using my (card details) and in (currency) at an exchange rate of XXX. I hereby offer to make full settlement in the agreed terms. Do you accept?" If they accept, OK. But as soon as you get home, write to the manager of the establishment, the chief executive of the parent company (usually obtainable via internet search) and the Trading Standards Department of their local council to complain about the attempted scam. Also, please, post the full details on this and any other boards you can think of, and write to all the guide books you ever heard of, to make sure they never get another recommendation anywhere.
If, on the other hand, your offer to pay in the previously agreed currency and by the previously agreed card is not accepted, you have got yourself a free meal / hotel room etc. Take care to say, before you leave, "I have offered to settle my bill in accordance with our contract. You have declined payment on behalf of the supplier. Our contract is therefore concluded." And walk out. They haven't a snowball's chance in hell of winning a civil action against you, because you offered to pay in full and they refused. If they try to stop you, remind them that you have committed no criminal offence and that if they physically restrain you they are guilty of criminal assault (and if they refuse to hand over luggage etc that you left for safe keeping, it's theft). (If they try to call yur bluff by phoning the police, stand your ground. Tell the police, and get others in your party to confirm, that you have at all times offered to pay the bill in full as agreed before you accepted the room / table etc. 99.9% certain the establishment will then agree to accept your payment. THEN you ask the police to accept a formal complaint of attempted fraud, seeking to gain payment on false pretences, demanding payment with menaces (aka blackmail) etc. The establishment will find it very difficult to explain why they refused your original offer to pay according to the original contract, unles they were guilty of one of these offences.
Please please please please please, anyone who encounters this unlawful behaviour anywhere in Scotland, write to the boss of the parent company, write to the Scottish Tourist Board, write to the Head of Trading Standards at the Council where the establishment is situated, write to their local newspaper, post the details here and anywhere else you can think of.... basically, give them as much bad publicity as you can, and then some. These bandits are a tiny minority of Scotland's tourism industry, but they are a cancer that the vast majority of honest traders don't want. If your letter causes enough cancellations to drive them out of business, you will have done us a huge favour.
To repeat - Scotland is justifiably proud of our reputation for hospitality. The huge majority of visitors will never be subjected to an attempted rip-off. The authorities will take decisive action against the minority who give our country a bad name - but only if you tell them who the crooks are.

Budman - that graphic is soooo kewl!

http://www.planetpayment.com/images/dynamicCurrConv.jpg

I'm going to print it out, laminate it, and carry it with me everywhere I travel.

The part of that page I like the best is

Planet Payment's DCC service provides a powerful incentive for international travelers to choose your establishment for their next purchase.

Yeah...right.

I haven't encountered this yet, but I will be vigilant on our upcoming trip to England.

Has it happened to anyone in Paris yet? Because I can argue anyone under the table (just ask Phil Flash) but I don't think my French is up to the task.

Craigellachie, bless your heart, you've got it all wrong. You don't have to prove anything, and you don't need a witness. The practice isn't illegal; it's a violation of the merchant's agreement with the card network. The following is a verbatim quote from the Visa web site.

Visa requires that you are provided a meaningful choice at the point of sale and you have the right to buy your purchase in the local currency so that you do not incur any additional fees the merchant may assess.

Here is the URL:

http://www.corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_ex_faq.jsp#faq5

As a consumer, you can cross out the dollar amount, print CHOICE OF CURRENCY NOT OFFERED on the charge slip where it can't be cut off, and dispute it when you get your credit card bill. The card issuer will back-charge the merchant for the difference and credit it to your account.

There is a post somewhere in the last few days giving you the url for an excellent article in the washington post. I have forgotten the topic line unfortunately.
The gist of the article is that the impetus for dynamic conversion comes from the firms with NO connection to visa who sell the pos equipment and the card processing service. this assumes we are all suckers.

I think everyone might find the following links interesting:

http://www.shift4.com/DCC.cfm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/29/AR2005072900927.html

http://www.btnmag.com/businesstravelnews/global/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000946779

Thanks for the links -- the information is helpful.

As I suggested the way to get a change is to post negative reviews of hotels & restaurants that do this scam on tripadvisor.com, venere.com and fodors if they are listed. Also report them to Visa and the local better business bureau with the relevant quotes. If enough noise is made it will have an effect.

I know that DCC and credit card charges in foreign currency are not the same thing, I was commenting on someone's post about charges in Canada on credit cards (Patrick's I think).

As for Paris, I was just there in July and never encountered anyone trying this, nor did it ever occur in southern France where I was before that.

Thanks, Christina. I hope it doesn't leap the Channel in the next month.

Craigellachie, I don't get your ramblings about agreeing on the exchange rate before signing. I think we've all agreed that the best way to settle any credit card bill is in the LOCAL currency. There is no exchange rate coming into view in that case. If the bill is 123 pounds, you pay 123 pounds. What does exchange rate have to do with anything?

But I love your advice about leaving without paying after making sure it is clear that you have tried to pay in full in local currency!

I don't think walking out is a particularly good idea - especially in smaller Highland towns where everyone's last name is Mackay or something.

Just post your objection on the slip and sign it.

Craigellachie

I've understand that to be true at least in England- heard it from a UK policeman (my dear BIL) if you offer to pay in valid currency or credit card and they reject your offer then you're not liable for the charge.

xyz123, please tell us where this happened ?

I'm not sure why this issue of legality of leaving after offering to pay in local "currency" or by credit card and the business refusing is so shocking. I haven't heard of any problems with businesses refusing to do so. I thought the problems all issue regarding credit card purchases. Is someone saying that when the dynamic currency conversion scam comes up with a credit card and they refuse to switch it to local currency and THEN you offer to pay them in CASH in local currency, they are still refusing? I find that hard to believe. Why would they refuse to take cash? But if they did so, I sure can't imagine how you could be in trouble if you did leave without paying.

They should be overjoyed to take currency, because that way they don't have to pay the credit card issuer any discount points. In most cases, this will more than offset the loss of the DCC rip-off.

Several of the woolen mill tourist sports near the Castle in Edmonton pulled this garbage on me...and in each case after a hassle they had to credit the original transaction and properly do the transaction.

I shall be writing to them and to the Scottish Tourist Board regarding this near criminal activity and to emphasize again the use of dcc is not the criminal acitivy but putting into the terminal I had agreed to it without asking seems to me to be fraud.

I have never thought much of boycotts, but this kind of activity should be jumped on.

If we can positively identify Global companies that are doing this, I would boycott their US operations as well.

That could add up to enough money that they might shape up.

Keith

This thing has certainly gotten around. I did the same dance at the front desk of a hotel in Sinaia, Romania in October.

Such incredulous looks and arguments as to how it was in my best interests before finally convincing them to re-ring the slip in lei.

ttt