nola77382

Hello all,

Planning in earnest now for our next trip which is France (Lyon, Sarlat, Amboise, Paris) October 3-18. We'll have 5 nights, 4 full days, in Sarlat-la-Caneda in an apartment in the old town. I'm trying to group things logically to maximize our short time, knowing that we may not get to everything, which is perfectly ok, and I've come up with this tentative plan.

Husband requested Pech Merle and Lascaux. I want to see Grotte de Padirac. The other sites were selected with help from the Michelin Green Guide and reading up on the forums, particularly TPAYT, yestravel, MaitaiTom and Stu Dudley' s itinerary.

We're not great shoppers so probably won't linger overlong at the Market. We love beautiful scenery, good food, pretty gardens and chateau. We really want to canoe or take the gabarres on the river. We're hoping for nice weather and fewer crowds than high summer. Restaurant suggestions are always welcome!

Monday: Drive Lyon to Sarlat (4.5 -5 hours). Check into apartment.
Maybe canoe or gabarres trip down river

Tuesday: (Unfortunately the Musee National Prehistoire is closed on Tuesday because ideally we'd see that before visiting the caves).
Rocamadour (from L’Hospitalet, if time, visit the town)
Gouffre de Padirac (10-12/2-5, reserve for what time?)
Beaux Villages: Loubressac, Carennac, Martel, Collonges-la-Rouge

Wednesday: Sarlat Market day, Eglise St. Sacerdos
Chateau de Beynac
Chateau de Castelnaud
Chateau Marqueyssac
View/visit La Roque Gageac

Thursday:
Option 1: Pech Merle 1030am English tour (reserved)
St. Cirq Lapopie
Figeac
Cahors
OR:
Option 2: Pech Merle 1030am English tour (reserved)
Domme
Chateau de Milands
La Roque Gageac
(Could we fit Domme and Chateau de Milands in any other day?)

Friday: Musee National Prehistoire (930-6) in Les Eyzies-de-Tayac
Lascaux II (930-6)
Grotte de Rouffignac (10-1130/2-5)
Roque St. Christophe (10-6)
Jardins Du Manoir D'Eyrignac

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks!

JoyC

I think you are underestimating the time it takes to drive from one town/village to another. Even tho' google maps says it only takes 01h05, you have to add at least 20% to the drive time (plus the occasional "getting lost") especially for D-roads. Add parking and the actual walking around the village or town.

For Tuesday, you are visiting Rocamadour, Le Gouffre then 4 more villages. I think its a bit too much. We were there last July and going again this October. We are not by any means slow travelers but 3 villages is our max otherwise we won't enjoy any of those.

In St Cirq La Popie, just to get on top takes a bit of walking/hiking. Then you have to go to Figeac, which is a large-ist city and then to Cahors, which is a big town. I think you need to pare a bit your must-sees.

TPAYT

I'm glad you got some help from my TR. The Dordogne was one of our best vacations ever.

I agree with JoyC---it takes longer to drive than you think it will and then some places it takes a while to find a parking spot. Also, every place you visit is so fabulous that you will want to spend some time and not hurry.

That said, I'll bet it's stunning scenery in Oct.

I'll be watching for your TR.

kja

Wow, I travel HARD, and I would find this schedule a challenge. As JoyC has said, your estimates of travel times seem on the short side...

I recommend that you identify your highest priority sites (sounds like you've already done that!) and then work out the routes that let you maximize you visits to the other things on your wish-list. You might not see everything you would like to see, but you might see a LOT more than you would see if you tried to plan everything moe minutely. (And I say that as a died-in-the-wool planner!)

Pech Merle is, IMO, breathtaking. The Grotte de Padirac and Lascaux II are magnificent. Consider trying to visit the Font de Gaume, too -- awesome!

Enjoy!

StuDudley

We stay near Domme, and left early (8am) for Rocamadour & got there before the hoards arrived. Then we drove to the Gouffre de Padirac and arrived for the last tour of the morning before the lunch closings. So the villages plus Rocamadour & Padirac are certainly doable if you get a very early start. Collonges la Rouge is far away from the others, so I don't think you could fit it in.

Peche Merle, St Cirq Lapopie, Figeac & Cahors are really too much for one day, IMO. Parking is difficult & time consuming in Cahors & Figeac. If you have read my itinerary, then you know that we much prefer Figeac over Cahors. Plus a drive along the Cele River is a treat. Visit some of the villages along the Cele.

After a long day of driving from Lyon, I would not want to embark on another long drive to get to Rocamadour - so I would swap Tuesday & Wednesday. If so, I would also swap Thurs & Friday. So it's close-to-Sarlat, long drive, close-to-Sarlat, long drive for the 4 days.

Also, don't use Google for estimating times - it is not very accurate. Use www.Viamichelin.com instead .

For visiting Domme - consider having dinner there & head out from Sarlat around 5:30 pm for a visit before dinner. You could do the same for Roque Gageac and Beynac - but Beynac does not have any restaurants that I would recommend.

Ch Beynac is "above" town, so unless you are prepared for a steep walk up or down - you'll have to get in the car & drive if you want to visit both the chateau and the village.

Stu Dudley

maitaitom

Here's my trip report (in words and photos) from 2012. Chapters Three though Seven describe our five nights in the Dordogne (also based in Sarlat). We had a great time. Enjoy!


<B>http://travelswithmaitaitom.com/france-2012/</B>

nola77382

Y'all are awesome!

We use viamichelin.com for travel times estimates. We learned from hard experience that google just doesn't get it in Europe.

We're used to not seeing everything on the agenda. I'm an (over)ambitious planner but we go with the flow once on the ground. kja--what you said is exactly what we try to do!

Font de Gaume is not on the list because husband is slightly claustrophobic. He really wants to see Pech Merle and is mentally prepared for feeling claustrophobic--he's been warned!

@Stu, I'll look at the logistics of swapping Tuesday & Wednesday given that the Sarlat market is only on Wednesday. I also didn't want another long drive right after getting there from Lyon...

Pech Merle only has the English Tour on Thursday so we can't swap that. I'll look closer at your itinerary for the drive and villages along the Cele. I love the idea of seeing Domme in the evening!

@Maitaitom, your trip report and blog are partly why this itinerary is so ambitious. Husband and I read it and want to do everything y'all did!

maitaitom

"Tuesday: (Unfortunately the Musee National Prehistoire is closed on Tuesday because ideally we'd see that before visiting the caves).
Rocamadour (from L’Hospitalet, if time, visit the town)
Gouffre de Padirac (10-12/2-5, reserve for what time?)
Beaux Villages: Loubressac, Carennac, Martel, Collonges-la-Rouge"

You can definitely do this one! We had 11 a.m. reservations at Gouffre de Padirac on this day, although we went on the 10:30 tour (not without a scolding however).

<B>http://travelswithmaitaitom.com/chapter-six-drivin-the-dordogne/</B>

Michael

Wednesday is too crowded. The pleasure of Marqueyssac is to walk around the ridge for the view. A leisurely visit will take a couple of hours at a minimum. Tours of the chateuax of Beynac and Castelnaud will also take more time than suggested by just giving a list. Add lunch which will take another hour and a half if it is not a quick picnic, and it will feel like a rushed visit.

There is a similar problem with Friday. The roads to Rouffignac are small and slow, and you have to allow for time around the tour (arrive early as there are no reservations). It is also in the opposite direction from Eyrignac relative to Sarlat. A visit to Rouffignac pretty much ate up a morning--I've taken visitors to the site multiple times.

Given the ambitious schedules, you might want to use viamichelin to figure out travel times between the sights.

nola77382

Recognizing that we may not be able to do it all, how's this for Tuesday and Wednesday?

Tuesday: Chateau de Beynac
Chateau de Castelnaud
Chateau Marqueyssac
View/visit La Roque Gageac, maybe have dinner here

Wednesday: Sarlat Market (go when it opens for a quick visit)
Beaux Villages: Go to Collanges-la-Rouge first then hit whichever villages we can (Martel, Carennac, Loubressac) before tour at Gouffre de Padirac
Gouffre de Padirac (10-12/2-5) reserve ahead for last tour of the day, 4pm.
Rocamadour: view from L’Hospitalet then maybe dinner in town before heading back to Sarlat

I really (think) I want to see Chateau Milands but that's hard to fit in. Jardins Du Manoir D'Eyrignac aren't high on the priority list since we're heading to Loire Valley after Sarlat.

Gotta get my maps and Stu's itinerary to refine Thursday and Friday.

StuDudley

It is at least a 1 1/4 hr drive from Rocamadour to Sarlat. The earliest you might be able to eat dinner in Rocamadour at a nice restaurant is 7:30 pm. Dinner will be over around 9:30. Then a 30 min walk to the car. It will be dark at 10:00 when you head back to Sarlat - and there are many small & winding roads to take. Personally, I would not do it - especially after a tiring day of driving & sight-seeing. Do the Rocamadour trip on another day if you want to visit the Sarlat market. Or visit the le Bugue market on Tuesday.

Stu Dudley

nola77382

Thanks, Stu! We'll plan to view Rocamadour from L'Hospitalet but make our way back to Sarlat for dinner. We definitely don't want to take chances with the driving.

StuDudley

Well - the views from L'Hospitalet are better in the morning. In the afternoon/evening the sun will be in your face & the views not so great. I would do the trip in reverse starting with Rocamadour, and omitting Collonges la Rouge if you run out of time.

Stu Dudley

laverendrye

Tuesday is still a busy day, but doable. I would skip the Château Marqueyssac. There are fine views from the gardens, but that's about it--you will see the valley just as well from Châteaux Beynac and Castelnaud. As you want to see Château des Milandes, you could probably fit it in if you skip Marqueyssac.

I think your itinerary for Wednesday is likely too ambitious. As others have noted, you should not underestimate driving times in this part of France. Perhaps you should reverse your itinerary, starting at Rocamadour, then Padirac and then see how much time left you have for the various villages you want to see.

I'm heading back to the Dordogne next month, based again in La Roque-Gageac. Last time we spent two weeks there and in that time never got beyond a 30km radius and still didn't see everything we wanted. I think I've learned not to be overly ambitious in just how much one can do--better to savour what you can and not to spend a lot of time on the road.

laverendrye

Obviously Stu and I were writing at the same time, but we are in accord on your Wednesday itinerary.

maitaitom

I would also skip Rocamadour for dinner. We did have lunch there the day we drove to all those towns (thought the view of Rocamadour from L’Hospitalet was better than the town itself). Even with lunch in Rocamadour, we made it back to Sarlat in plenty of time for dinner. If you skip visiting Rpcamadour and have lunch along the way, you'll be able to hit all those towns easily in a day, and be back for wine before dinner.

welltraveledbrit

Sounds like your itinerary is taking shape. We took things pretty easily on our trip but for me the gardens were a highlight I very much enjoyed.

Here are some posts on the Dordogne that might be helpful though I'm not sure if these are still under consideration.

Eriynac
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...s-jardins.html

Marqueyssac
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...rqueyssac.html

Chateau Milandes
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...-milandes.html

I'm not sure what direction you are coming from but we very much enjoyed Conques
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...html?q=conques

Have a wonderful trip!

nola77382

Does anyone know what time the market in Sarlat gets started? If it starts pretty early, then we can spend half hour to 45 minutes perusing it on our way out (maybe pick up picnic supplies) then see Rocamadour first and onto Padirac and the towns. And hopefully still have time for wine (yay) before dinner!

@laverendrye and welltraveledbrit, thank you for chiming in. I think I will replace Marqueyssac with Milandes.

Husband and I are not able to take long vacations yet (2 weeks in one place--that's the dream!) but hopefully one day we'll be able to slow way down. We do like to keep busy on vacation (maitaitom and Tracey are our heroes, lol) but are rarely upset if we can't fit something in because we always hope to return... Exception: I was truly sad to miss the Audrey Hepburn exhibit at the National Portrait Gallery last month because it's temporary and we won't be back while it's on.

StuDudley

Markets usually start at 9AM - but watching them "set up" before then is interesting.

Stu Dudley

maitaitom

If I remember correctly (please be advised I occasionally have a cocktail and have been know to be incorrect on times) the food stalls open very early and the other stalls open at 8:30. It was in full swing by the time we got down there, and I usually get the troops up early (which is why mutiny is always on their mind). In any event, although I am not a "Market Guy," I actually liked this one. Have fun.