CAN EARLY RISERS BEAT THE CROWDS?
Feb 26th, 2007, 04:17 PM
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CAN EARLY RISERS BEAT THE CROWDS?
They say the early bird gets the worm...yes but the early worm gets eaten!
We will be in Italy for 16 days. We love history, arts and architecture culture and have been there once before decades ago. My wife and I did not like Florence and not really Venice either the crowds were alot. We have been to the Vinyard & Paris off season two of our favorite trips and loved them because they were not crowded. Been to the Bahamas etc...not enough culture or history for us.
Thats when we we reallized we are self professed crowd haters (but site lovers). We are "feet to the fire" destined to go when the kiddies are uot of school and will be traveling end of June (since our window for travel is such that we do not want to interrupt the school calandar). It is important for the children to see some of the usual suspects but we are spending time relaxing in out of the way locations too.
Is it a bad idea to think if we get up early and head out each morn at 6:00 AM (we are early risers anyways) we could do most of the travelling then and also visit the most crowded and buisy squares early dodging much of the crowds... (at least for some of the day). We will of-course have to venture out to opening hours for things we feel our kids should see in Rome etc. but hope that we will not feel as saturated as the day rolls on if we do squares etc early. We know we are driving but if its really early we wonder if this will beat some of the traffic Heres our plan so far:
Sicily stay in 1 place for five days:
rent a car there do most of our traveling to usual suspects first thing in the early early morn to miss some traffic. Spend mid days at hotel kiddes at the pool or on beach
Fly to Venice for two days:
Taxi to hotel stay close to St Marks square but in modern hotel. Fly to avoid the trains and trip in (our most overwhelming point last time we went) spend mornings meandering the squares early long lunch and hotel with pool mid day take in sites and crowds after lunch
Tuscany four days:
Arange car early and stay outside of small towns drive in to city centers early early and out by late morning braving some crowds for obligatory museums et al.
Molise four days:
Spend with distant realatives.Spend early early morning before my mother in law gets up (just kidding here)
Rome three days:
Sans car..seeing navona et al in early mornings and braving crowds when we have to which will be I belive unavoidable. But each morning have a little more quiet time. Early to bed each day. Brkfsts are snacks and nibble in the morning as shops open
Main Questions
1. Impossible?
2. Unsafe?
3. Plan to eat dinners early ie 5:00 or 6:00. Is this too early rest closed or early bird specials?
3. Pitfalls Advise?
4. I know car is more expensive and I have taken the "wealthy" out of the early to bed early to rise adage but have I salvaged the healthy and wise part?
5. Should this bad speller become a Hermit?
If its a bad idea start your reply: Dear worm:
If its a good idea your reply: Dear bird:
Signed yours truly.
We will be in Italy for 16 days. We love history, arts and architecture culture and have been there once before decades ago. My wife and I did not like Florence and not really Venice either the crowds were alot. We have been to the Vinyard & Paris off season two of our favorite trips and loved them because they were not crowded. Been to the Bahamas etc...not enough culture or history for us.
Thats when we we reallized we are self professed crowd haters (but site lovers). We are "feet to the fire" destined to go when the kiddies are uot of school and will be traveling end of June (since our window for travel is such that we do not want to interrupt the school calandar). It is important for the children to see some of the usual suspects but we are spending time relaxing in out of the way locations too.
Is it a bad idea to think if we get up early and head out each morn at 6:00 AM (we are early risers anyways) we could do most of the travelling then and also visit the most crowded and buisy squares early dodging much of the crowds... (at least for some of the day). We will of-course have to venture out to opening hours for things we feel our kids should see in Rome etc. but hope that we will not feel as saturated as the day rolls on if we do squares etc early. We know we are driving but if its really early we wonder if this will beat some of the traffic Heres our plan so far:
Sicily stay in 1 place for five days:
rent a car there do most of our traveling to usual suspects first thing in the early early morn to miss some traffic. Spend mid days at hotel kiddes at the pool or on beach
Fly to Venice for two days:
Taxi to hotel stay close to St Marks square but in modern hotel. Fly to avoid the trains and trip in (our most overwhelming point last time we went) spend mornings meandering the squares early long lunch and hotel with pool mid day take in sites and crowds after lunch
Tuscany four days:
Arange car early and stay outside of small towns drive in to city centers early early and out by late morning braving some crowds for obligatory museums et al.
Molise four days:
Spend with distant realatives.Spend early early morning before my mother in law gets up (just kidding here)
Rome three days:
Sans car..seeing navona et al in early mornings and braving crowds when we have to which will be I belive unavoidable. But each morning have a little more quiet time. Early to bed each day. Brkfsts are snacks and nibble in the morning as shops open
Main Questions
1. Impossible?
2. Unsafe?
3. Plan to eat dinners early ie 5:00 or 6:00. Is this too early rest closed or early bird specials?
3. Pitfalls Advise?
4. I know car is more expensive and I have taken the "wealthy" out of the early to bed early to rise adage but have I salvaged the healthy and wise part?
5. Should this bad speller become a Hermit?
If its a bad idea start your reply: Dear worm:
If its a good idea your reply: Dear bird:
Signed yours truly.
Feb 26th, 2007, 05:38 PM
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In Sicily, attractions and business (except archaeological sites) are open 9-1, and then 4-8. Most hotels don't start breakfast until 7:30 or 8.
Restaurants do not open for dinner until 8. Almost no exceptions.
Archaeological sites don't close for siesta, but they close early in the afternoon.
Restaurants do not open for dinner until 8. Almost no exceptions.
Archaeological sites don't close for siesta, but they close early in the afternoon.
Feb 26th, 2007, 06:13 PM
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Dear bird/worm:
There are some good elements to your idea, and some bad. The worst I can think of is getting your kids up and out at that early hour (my then-10-year-old son, who usually wakes up at 6 am, slept in while in Europe, I think at least partly because of the time change). Another down side is that I think some (most? all?) of your destinations can be very interesting and appealing in the evening hours, when you might already be ready for bed. Getting dinner that early would also be difficult on the whole.
On the other hand, I LOVE being out early when on vacation. I often go running at around 7 am on vacation, and one of the reasons I enjoy it is seeing a location before most people are out. I see people heading for work, parents taking kids to school, the bread van delivering bread to the doorsteps of restaurants. But only if you're ready and willing to be out at that time.
You can also escape the crowds by going to places where there are fewer people. The last time we were in Venice, granted it was October, but there were lots of "streets" in San Polo, San Croce and Canareggio where there weren't a lot of people, and there were more locals. Try to seek out places in each city where there are fewer tourists.
In terms of staying outside of small towns/village, and driving into bigger cities, that may cause more hassle. If you're doing that, you may run into the usual morning going-to-work traffic. Also, it might just be more peaceful to stay in a less-touristed part of Rome or Florence (or wherever) and be able to do your sightseeing without having to drive somewhere first. And with reference to that, in Venice don't stay near St. Mark's if you don't like crowds - stay in the Dorsoduro or Canareggio.
There are some good elements to your idea, and some bad. The worst I can think of is getting your kids up and out at that early hour (my then-10-year-old son, who usually wakes up at 6 am, slept in while in Europe, I think at least partly because of the time change). Another down side is that I think some (most? all?) of your destinations can be very interesting and appealing in the evening hours, when you might already be ready for bed. Getting dinner that early would also be difficult on the whole.
On the other hand, I LOVE being out early when on vacation. I often go running at around 7 am on vacation, and one of the reasons I enjoy it is seeing a location before most people are out. I see people heading for work, parents taking kids to school, the bread van delivering bread to the doorsteps of restaurants. But only if you're ready and willing to be out at that time.
You can also escape the crowds by going to places where there are fewer people. The last time we were in Venice, granted it was October, but there were lots of "streets" in San Polo, San Croce and Canareggio where there weren't a lot of people, and there were more locals. Try to seek out places in each city where there are fewer tourists.
In terms of staying outside of small towns/village, and driving into bigger cities, that may cause more hassle. If you're doing that, you may run into the usual morning going-to-work traffic. Also, it might just be more peaceful to stay in a less-touristed part of Rome or Florence (or wherever) and be able to do your sightseeing without having to drive somewhere first. And with reference to that, in Venice don't stay near St. Mark's if you don't like crowds - stay in the Dorsoduro or Canareggio.
Feb 26th, 2007, 06:25 PM
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Well, in Venice if you want a pool, you'll need to stay on the Lido. This might suit you anyway; get a hotel with a beach. Don't know what time the first vaporetto goes to Venice proper.
Especially in Rome, you might try to find an apartment. Not only will it give you more room, you can have your meals when you want. You might be able to find an apartment for your time in Sicily also. Or just pay for a week and only use 5 days. And some agriturismos have kitchens.
Especially in Rome, you might try to find an apartment. Not only will it give you more room, you can have your meals when you want. You might be able to find an apartment for your time in Sicily also. Or just pay for a week and only use 5 days. And some agriturismos have kitchens.
Feb 26th, 2007, 06:42 PM
#5
The best way to avoid crowds is to visit places that are "below the radar" of the average tourist. Your itinerary includes, more or less, the usual tourist destinations and will no doubt be very crowded in late June. The exception may be your time in Molise which I have not visited and can't comment on.
I think planning your days with everyone's energy and tolerance levels in mind will help more than hitting the piazzas early. If you have an unrealistic idea of how much you can tolerate in a day, you'll be disappointed or the four of you will be exhausted and overwhelmed.
Have you had any experience with your kids and jet lag? If not, don't presume they'll be the early risers they are at home.
You won't be able to eat dinner before 7 pm unless you stay in apartments and cook or in hotels with room service (ouch!$!). An apartment might not be a bad idea with kids because it can feel a little more "homey." It might also be easier if your kids are picky eaters and will also give them the experience of shopping Italian style.
I don't know of a family-friendly (i.e., reasonable rate) hotel with a pool in Venice. There is probably one on Lido (which has a beach), but staying there would complicate your plan to explore Venice early and return to the hotel mid-day before exploring more in the afternoon. With only two days in Venice, I wouldn't want to spend time travelling round-trip from Lido twice a day.
A car in Sicily and Tuscany will give you flexibility to react to everyone's energy level, but a car large enough for 4 people and luggage plus A/C will not be cheap. It would be hard to see these areas without a car, but be prepared for the cost (and for the time it takes to rent and return).
In Tuscany, I suggest you stay in one place and take day trips as your energy, interest and the weather allow.
I'm not sure what you mean by your question "unsafe?"
I think planning your days with everyone's energy and tolerance levels in mind will help more than hitting the piazzas early. If you have an unrealistic idea of how much you can tolerate in a day, you'll be disappointed or the four of you will be exhausted and overwhelmed.
Have you had any experience with your kids and jet lag? If not, don't presume they'll be the early risers they are at home.
You won't be able to eat dinner before 7 pm unless you stay in apartments and cook or in hotels with room service (ouch!$!). An apartment might not be a bad idea with kids because it can feel a little more "homey." It might also be easier if your kids are picky eaters and will also give them the experience of shopping Italian style.
I don't know of a family-friendly (i.e., reasonable rate) hotel with a pool in Venice. There is probably one on Lido (which has a beach), but staying there would complicate your plan to explore Venice early and return to the hotel mid-day before exploring more in the afternoon. With only two days in Venice, I wouldn't want to spend time travelling round-trip from Lido twice a day.
A car in Sicily and Tuscany will give you flexibility to react to everyone's energy level, but a car large enough for 4 people and luggage plus A/C will not be cheap. It would be hard to see these areas without a car, but be prepared for the cost (and for the time it takes to rent and return).
In Tuscany, I suggest you stay in one place and take day trips as your energy, interest and the weather allow.
I'm not sure what you mean by your question "unsafe?"
Feb 26th, 2007, 06:50 PM
#6
We're early risers, home & travel. But when we're in Italy, we make sure to get an afternoon rest, so we can stay up late -- I would sure hate to go to bed early & miss the evening passegiatta.
Feb 26th, 2007, 07:49 PM
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Sure, but how much fun is it going to be to get the kids up at the crack of dawn?
Not much fun in my very extensive experience.
And I gotta ask: You say you've been to "the Vinyard." Might I inquire where the heck that is?
Agree with you totally about the Bahamas, though. I did a last-minute Priceline thing for a 4-day trip there a few years ago and even though we got an amazing bargain ($1400 for 4 nights at the Crowne Plaza plus airfare for 4) it was the stupidest vacation I ever took. It was like we were groveling to find some culture somewhere, please.....!!!
Not much fun in my very extensive experience.
And I gotta ask: You say you've been to "the Vinyard." Might I inquire where the heck that is?
Agree with you totally about the Bahamas, though. I did a last-minute Priceline thing for a 4-day trip there a few years ago and even though we got an amazing bargain ($1400 for 4 nights at the Crowne Plaza plus airfare for 4) it was the stupidest vacation I ever took. It was like we were groveling to find some culture somewhere, please.....!!!
Feb 26th, 2007, 08:24 PM
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I, too, must travel around a school calendar but look for the positives that come with being able to stay longer and more guaranteed nice weather (hence packing less). You don't say how old your kids are, but: I would definitely suggest longer in Tuscany, based on your loathing of crowds and love of pools. Check out InItaly.com with all sorts of weeklong family housing options in Tuscany (many with pools, some with cooking on premises so you are not bound by the dining customs of Italians that don't suit your schedule!) Also an early riser, I have see some amazing sights as the cities wake up- in Venice, for example, standing on a tiny bridge and watching the garbage go by on gondolas as vegetables came in...wandering around the fish market as the vendors set up their wares- those swordfish heads, and all the other kid-pleasing sealife for sale to eat. We also had a great time, waiting for the reservation at the Uffizi, exploring the surrounding park- we waded in fountains, ate a lot of gelato, rowed on the pond and rented those bike things- I was amazed that in mid-August the Borghese park was not at all crowded. Most museums will open at 9, but hotel breakfasts seldom start as early as you want- hence back to the apartment/villa concept. It sounds like you can plan for one "big" usual suspect per morning on your busy days- rest all afternoon- but it would be a shame for them to miss the cultural aspect of being out at night. I still remember sitting in a small (wandered far from the main canals)neighborhood cafe in Venice eating pizza and it was about 9 at night and kids were playing soccer, people sitting around or strolling- so very, very different from the US. Lastly, people watching itself IS wonderful! It's part of the experience. Not all of those in the crowd will be Americans, anyway - I think it's fascinating to watch families speaking other languages interacting and my kids do, too. I think your kids will pick up on your attitude if you are thinking so many negatives before even leaving! They will probably love the train ride! They might not be able to get up as early, at least at first, with the time change. I hope it's a wonderful trip!
Feb 27th, 2007, 07:22 PM
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WWWWWOWWWW!
Thank-you! thank-you! thank-you! for the advice!
First Thanks for the heads up on Sicily. I would have discovered these sobering facts while I was there, I dont mind a granola bar and skipping brkfst fare, but I dont want to miss dinner and never thought of the later dinner time and it cultural value... Maybe if we take an afternoon nap we can do early and late. Since sites close mid day we might entertain pool then.
I also love seeing early morning crowds and locals wo seem to appear missing the crowds. Growing up in Niagara Falls Canada, I was one of those locals... Perhaps thats my aversion to tourists even if I am one in italy.
Great advise on staying in a areas with more locals but not neccesarily in out of town. Thanks for Dorsoduro or Canareggio. Any periferal areas in Rome or lets say Siena where we could do that?
Sincerely Bird/Worm
Thank-you! thank-you! thank-you! for the advice!
First Thanks for the heads up on Sicily. I would have discovered these sobering facts while I was there, I dont mind a granola bar and skipping brkfst fare, but I dont want to miss dinner and never thought of the later dinner time and it cultural value... Maybe if we take an afternoon nap we can do early and late. Since sites close mid day we might entertain pool then.
I also love seeing early morning crowds and locals wo seem to appear missing the crowds. Growing up in Niagara Falls Canada, I was one of those locals... Perhaps thats my aversion to tourists even if I am one in italy.
Great advise on staying in a areas with more locals but not neccesarily in out of town. Thanks for Dorsoduro or Canareggio. Any periferal areas in Rome or lets say Siena where we could do that?
Sincerely Bird/Worm
Feb 27th, 2007, 07:45 PM
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Dear Bird
In relation to restaurants and eating early, I can't understand the comment from rkkwan, unless he is referring just to Sicily alone. We were in Italy in January and always ate early -we had dinner in a very nice restaurant in Rome, just a stones throw from Trevi fountain, at 5pm on a Thursday evening - yes we were the only ones in there, but they were certainly open and we got exceptional service. Same for Venice, ate at about 6pm, and that time, we shared the restaurant with other guests. I'm sure you will be fine with wanting early dinners.
In relation to restaurants and eating early, I can't understand the comment from rkkwan, unless he is referring just to Sicily alone. We were in Italy in January and always ate early -we had dinner in a very nice restaurant in Rome, just a stones throw from Trevi fountain, at 5pm on a Thursday evening - yes we were the only ones in there, but they were certainly open and we got exceptional service. Same for Venice, ate at about 6pm, and that time, we shared the restaurant with other guests. I'm sure you will be fine with wanting early dinners.
Feb 27th, 2007, 08:12 PM
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I am beginning to get it on the jet lag thing...and I don’t want to be the morning drill sergeant by getting everyone up earlier then they want. The cat nap may help every one and this is amazing advice. Jet lag doesn’t seem to be a problem for us before but as a family we have experienced this traveling west not east so the time change is not in our favor now. My family always seems to be napping on sat or sun mid day so that may help. The wife will be home with kids before the trip. Some books say to gradually shift to the time change before you go I.e. start getting up an eating earlier here in USA. Does this help?
The "Below radar" but not too far out of town idea also seems to be a consensus and I will adjust plans accordingly. I will also stay in one place in Sicily and Tuscany and may take the financial bullet on the car for four to get flexibility.
My kids are nor picky eaters. Even the four-year old's favorite food is byrianni in our hometown local Indian restaurant and they like Calamari over Chicken fingers.
They all love the restaurant scene, so great advise we also don’t want to cook but are willing to forsake the morning buffets the places have for an early granola bar and a late breakfast out…I now understand the evening restaurant thing will be important and maybe the afternoon rest, a dip and a pillow fight with my four year old (her favorite tourist attraction in any vacation) (my other faughter is 11) this will allow us to rest and recharge before sites and dinner.
I will also start looking at recommended sites.
Any particulars on below the radar places that are not too far out of the way given the added monkey wrench that apartments are OK but we probably wont cook so much ourselves. But to be more fussy we probably wont use a kitchen much so do not want to pay for an apartment.
Again a heart felt Thank-you to all of you out there…this is my first posting anywhere and it has been so positive.
P.S. Regarding Vinyard I meant Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts. Nice place, but bulging at the seams and too much for this bad speller and name butcherer during the tourist season.
P.S.S. We are not really crowd haters…but I grew up in a tourist town and always sympathized with the burden tourists put on an urban fabric even though it often wags the local economy and is usually welcome. One of my favorite things in the Bahamas was going to a church service as far away from the tourist area as possible; Where the locals lived. Connecting with this type of crowd was so memorable and fulfilling.
The "Below radar" but not too far out of town idea also seems to be a consensus and I will adjust plans accordingly. I will also stay in one place in Sicily and Tuscany and may take the financial bullet on the car for four to get flexibility.
My kids are nor picky eaters. Even the four-year old's favorite food is byrianni in our hometown local Indian restaurant and they like Calamari over Chicken fingers.
They all love the restaurant scene, so great advise we also don’t want to cook but are willing to forsake the morning buffets the places have for an early granola bar and a late breakfast out…I now understand the evening restaurant thing will be important and maybe the afternoon rest, a dip and a pillow fight with my four year old (her favorite tourist attraction in any vacation) (my other faughter is 11) this will allow us to rest and recharge before sites and dinner.
I will also start looking at recommended sites.
Any particulars on below the radar places that are not too far out of the way given the added monkey wrench that apartments are OK but we probably wont cook so much ourselves. But to be more fussy we probably wont use a kitchen much so do not want to pay for an apartment.
Again a heart felt Thank-you to all of you out there…this is my first posting anywhere and it has been so positive.
P.S. Regarding Vinyard I meant Martha's Vineyard in Massachusetts. Nice place, but bulging at the seams and too much for this bad speller and name butcherer during the tourist season.
P.S.S. We are not really crowd haters…but I grew up in a tourist town and always sympathized with the burden tourists put on an urban fabric even though it often wags the local economy and is usually welcome. One of my favorite things in the Bahamas was going to a church service as far away from the tourist area as possible; Where the locals lived. Connecting with this type of crowd was so memorable and fulfilling.
Feb 27th, 2007, 08:21 PM
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If I can find dinner earlier in Rome Venice and Tuscany that may be a great thing. Since we are usually first customers here in the USA there are advantages. There is always less wait, and we always get to see the cook ands a staff that is not yet inundated and is easier to connect w/ waiters and cooks and to thank and compliment them. Any Ideas on grate restaurants that open earlier? Zagats usually doesn’t list them.
Feb 28th, 2007, 02:24 AM
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We visited Italy in June 2004. According to my research the least crowded time to visit the museums was lunch-time. Therefore I planned to visit each museum at noon. This worked very well! If advance reservations were available I made them for noon as well. This only works in summer when museums are open later. WE never waited in line for any museums, using this plan.
In the morning, before the museum noon-time visit, we would do something else that doesn't require as much time. Such as, St. Peter's was a good place to visit in the morning around 10:00 am.
We juggled our meal-times around to accomodate this schedule.
I think this works because most people do the let's get there early plan...and they have lunch at lunch time. I think most tour groups probably follow this plan too.
Anyway it worked very well for us for the Rome and Florence museums.
We didn't drive in Italy. WE took trains, public buses, taxis, and we walked. A couple times we hired a driver for a day-tour. It was nice and relaxing.
Enjoy your trip. Buon viaggio.
In the morning, before the museum noon-time visit, we would do something else that doesn't require as much time. Such as, St. Peter's was a good place to visit in the morning around 10:00 am.
We juggled our meal-times around to accomodate this schedule.
I think this works because most people do the let's get there early plan...and they have lunch at lunch time. I think most tour groups probably follow this plan too.
Anyway it worked very well for us for the Rome and Florence museums.
We didn't drive in Italy. WE took trains, public buses, taxis, and we walked. A couple times we hired a driver for a day-tour. It was nice and relaxing.
Enjoy your trip. Buon viaggio.
Feb 28th, 2007, 02:25 AM
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By the way I didn't mean to capitalize the word "WE" in my message above. They were just typos. (I have the bad luck of people assuming that when I capitalize something it has a secret meaning...just a typo!)
Feb 28th, 2007, 04:37 PM
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We too will be in Venice this summer. Can anyone help DLAfamily and I with a recommendation for a decent family hotel? We are 5 and would like to stay together, we would especially like to save on having to get two rooms.
THANKS,
dcohen46
THANKS,
dcohen46
Feb 28th, 2007, 04:42 PM
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I don't know if this works during June (or with kids) but when I was in Florence last May I did get up early, took a nap during the middle of the day when it was very crowded (I brought earplugs) and then got up again and went out in the late afternoon and had a wonderful time. I walked around the plazas during the early morning when hardly anybody else was around, then up to the top of the duomo at 8:30 AM and there was no line, and walked right into the Uffizi at 5 PM (twice!) and then ate a late dinner.
Maybe that's why I enjoyed Florence when so many other posters have said that they hated it. I slept during the most crowded part of the day.
Maybe that's why I enjoyed Florence when so many other posters have said that they hated it. I slept during the most crowded part of the day.
Feb 28th, 2007, 05:23 PM
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I know one thing, early risers can get a treat that a lot of people sleeping in might miss. In sept. 05, my wife and I were in Venice, and about 3:00a.m. some loud fellows coming back from a night out woke us up. I couldn't go back to sleep (therefore neither could my wife!) so about 4:30a.m. we gave up and went for a walk. We ended up in an area where all the small delivery boats were loading up and getting ready for the mornings deliveries. We found a place that was open and had coffee with some locals starting their work day. We ended up watching the sun rise from a little bridge over a canal watching the boats head out. That was probably the most memorable morning of our trip. Never did get to thank those guy's for getting us up on time!
