Karen

We'll be travelling thru Europe with no particular destination for one month for our 20th anniversary. Just playing it by ear, day by day. This will be 5th trip. Looking for budgeting ideas since this will be a longer trip. Will be renting a car this time. Here's what we've thought of and possibly tried. Any other suggestions appreciated. <BR> 1. Budget hotels listed in travel books, web sites, etc. Checking to see if breakfast is included. <BR> 2. Hostels at least for a night or two, particularly if they have laundry facilities. <BR> 3. Purchasing some meals at deli's (bread, meat, cheese, fruit, etc.) to save on restaurant costs. <BR> 4. Flying off-days and off-hours. <BR> 5. Staying between cities some times. Hotels are less expensive, and no parking fees for overnight. <BR> 6. Auto-Europe gives 10% discount for rentals of 21+ days. Also, our credit card covers the CDW. <BR> <BR>Any other suggestions welcome. <BR>

Don

Airfare. It could be your single greatest expense. You mentioned flying "off-days and off-hours" but you can do more than that to get lower airfares. First, fly *off-season*. US-Europe airfares are highest from late June through mid September, and also around US holidays--especially the week before Thanksgiving and Christmas. If you can avoid these peak travel periods, then you have a better chance of securing lower airfare. Also, staying 30 days or less generally yields the cheapest fares from airlines. Sometimes if you plan a 31 day trip vs. a 30 day trip, airfare can double. Shop around! Maybe try the cheap flights forum at Eurotrip.com for more specific advice about flights. Eurotrip also has forums on hostels and transport which might be of assistance. <BR> <BR> I have seen European car rentals as low as $100/week. For two people travelling together, this indeed is likely to be more cost-effective than trains. However, if you plan to concentrate your time in city centres, then a railpass or point-to-point rail tickets might be better. <BR> <BR> As far as hostels, bear in mind the extra costs. For example, many are located away from city centres. Not a problem if you have a car. But charges for sheets, breakfast, bus fare to/from city centre each day, showers (sometimes) can really add up. Pensiones, B&Bs, and well-located budget hotels can be a better value when all costs are considered.

Joan

Adding to the good advice re: flying off season: consider settling in for a week and exploring the area by car. We stayed at a charming studio-apt style "villa" in Umbria which had a rate of 500,000 lira per week off-season (after Oct 15th). It was centrally located for exploring Assisi, Perugia, Bevagna, Gubbio et al and had a well-equipped kitchen with stores to buy interesting local fare near-by. You can't beat that sort of bargain in any hotel, hostel B&B. The catch? only available by the week. But if you found one each in, for example, Italy, one in France and one in Spain or Portugal or Greece or ??? and saved your hotel costs for the drives between...you catch my drift. BTW, this area of Italy in late October early November is fine for exploring, museum-church visiting, restaurants are open: it might be a bit rainy but we had delightlful days there a year ago. Have a ball and happy 20th!!!

BOB THE NAVIGATOR

Karen, You have missed the real biggie. <BR>With a month, do not RENT your car but lease it thru the Renault or Peugot program. It is best to pick up and drop in France, but can also be done in a few other major cities. We did 2 months in 1999 with pick-up in Madrid and drop in Munich and saved about $1000 versus the best rental prices. And, the cars are brand new. Check it out. <BR> <BR>The other biggie is buying your air thru consolidators. Expect to save about 20 % compared to airline prices.

elvira

Renting an apartment or house saves on food(breakfast and snacks are cheaper prepared yourself than at a cafe; you can prepare picnic lunches, or make dinner), laundry (many have washer/dryers) and parking. If you want to travel around for most of the time, then maybe rent a place your third or fourth week to catch up on laundry and chill out. <BR> <BR>Telephone calls are very expensive; get yourself an email address and keep in touch that way (cybercafes and cyberrooms abound; for $5 you can email for an hour). <BR> <BR>Do not send postcards to every Thom, Ricardo and Henri. Card and postage is almost $1. Do not promise souvenirs to everyone. Even $1 keychains start to add up. <BR> <BR>Bring all your film with you; it is very expensive in Europe, and even if someplace has it on sale, you won't have the time to find it. Start collecting rolls now (Costco has good prices, and keep an eye on the flyers in the Sunday paper). <BR> <BR>Contact the tourist bureaus; they'll send you lots of free stuff, including maps (although the best money you can spend is on good driving maps like Michelin's) and, sometimes, discount coupons. <BR> <BR>Buy museum passes, train tickets, city passes, etc. WHEN YOU GET THERE. Other than Eurail passes, which must be bought outside Europe, everything else can be bought on the spot, saving often hefty handling fees. <BR>

Book Chick

Karen, <BR>All the tips you'v been given so far are great. What a wonderful adventure you're going to have! <BR> <BR>In terms of airfare, yes, do shop the web, but also you might want to consider using a "bucket shop" or consolidator. When I flew over to Italy to attend school, I used one & had a very good experience. (They buy the unpurchased seats on airlines & sell them to you. These are regular airlines, though. I flew on KLM Royal Dutch Airlines & paid a fraction of the price some of the passengers on my flights did.) I found mine in the Sunday NY Times travel section. <BR>Best Wishes, <BR>BC

Karen

Thanks everybody!!! These are great tips. Keep 'em coming!!!

Laura

Karen: We just returned from almost a month in Europe. This is something I did that helped us out tremendously as far as being able to afford such a long trip. We had most of our hotels reserved six months prior to departure. Every payday, I would go to the bank and "buy" the currency needed for one of our hotels and then I'd put that money aside in an envelope earmarked with the name of the hotel on it. I did this just as if the price of the hotel was a bill. By the time we left for Europe, I had 12 envelopes, all containing the local currency needed to pay for the hotels. And, yes, I know most people would think it foolish to travel with that much cash but we were extremely careful and had absolutely no problems. The upshot of it was this: We took a FABULOUS vacation and basically prepaid all our hotel bills -- we did not have to come back with an exhorbidant credit card bill. (And, yes, I also know that it might have been smart to just put that money in a savings account but I can't be trusted with it -- I can, however, be trusted with foreign currency I can't spend here!)

justtrying

Laura's suggestion only makes sense if you have the spending issues she has. Buying currency in the US is expensive. Of course, her idea of putting money aside is a good one. However, it would probably be much more cost effective to beef up you checking account before leaving, and withdraw the cash in local currency in the country (by ATM), or charge the rooms. Besides, it sounds as though you don't know where you will be and when, and I don't think you should try to plan the entire month in advance. You have the time to be spontaneous (unlike, perhaps, a shorter trip).

Leslie

Decide which countries you are going to go to before you rent the car. Some rental contracts do not allow you to take the car out of the country you rent it in or else charge you an exhorbitant fee for taking it out of the country, so you must check in advance. Be careful at the borders, some unscrupulous officials charge you phantom fees to exit the country with your rental car. Be careful about speeding, some of the police at the borders are looking for bribes to let you go -- refuse the bribe and demand the ticket. <BR> <BR>Check all the consolidator web sites for tickets, they differ by hundreds of dollars. Also check each airline's website. Fly midweek if possible, the rates are always less and the flights are usually less crowded. And, fly in and out of the same city, you will always save on airfare and on the car rental charges. <BR> <BR>Go to the tourist information office in each city, usually in a train station for the best last minute rates on rooms. Usually staying 3 or more days gets you a discount on a room. Look to rent apartments for a week in the major cities. I saw rates of $400 for a week for 2 in Prague in the Old Town and Mala Strana and the photos of the apartments were beautiful. It also saves you on the cost of food. <BR> <BR>Happy travels and happy anniversary.

Thyra

Laura, I will have to steal that idea. We always buy a great deal of currency before we leave as well, so we might as well, do it for the hotels. I guess by some definations, we have "spending issues". But it does seem that the brakes always go blammy while planning a big vacation. If I have to use credit cards, I'd rather have them for emergencies like that.

Don

Airfare consolidators are generally cheaper in peak seasons and if you need to stay more than 30 days. In the off-season, and staying 30 days or less, the many specials from airlines are usually a better deal and include frequent flyer bonus miles for online booking (which consolidators do not). <BR> <BR>Re: car lease vs. rent, be sure to compare the best rates for each. For example, if you can score a car for $100/week, then a lease would be hard-pressed to beat that. Try www.sixt.com to search rental rates. <BR> <BR>If you plan to begin and end in particular cities, then you might not need a car covering those days. Maybe take local transport to your accomodation upon arrival in Europe, spend some time, then hire a car on your departure day from that city and return it when you arrive at your final city. Could save you a few days rental rate on each end. <BR> <BR>If you go train, weekend passes in Germany can be very cheap (as are trains in CZ). Consider purchasing couchette occasionally on overnight trains to travel and save the cost of a room.

RC

Food/Meals - In addition to deli's, outdoor and indoor markets provided some of the bettter meal experience my wife and I had when in Europe. They're not only cheaper than most restaurants/deli's, but more often fresher and authentic.

Laura

Thyra: I never thought of it as my having "spending issues" -- I guess that's some people's perspective. Whatever you call it, my "spending issues" allowed us to stay in some pretty fabulous hotels (including an incredible Italian villa for 5 nights), stay as long as we want, and use our other cash for merriment and souvenirs! Also, just as a clarification, it did not cost me a fortune to buy foreign currency. My bank did not charge a fee at all! They simply gave me the going exchange rate for whatever day it was that I was buying. They also gladly bought back everything I brought home. At any rate, about the only downside I see to my little plan was that I didn't get paid interest on the $$ as I would if I had put it in a savings account. I'm just not a good saver -- but I am a GREAT bill payer!

snorkelman

first off, almost all of the tips above are great. as for the comment about hostels having hidden costs and being far from the city center - that is off base. i bet that you will never pay more for a hostel in the same town that you had planned on staying at a hotel. as for hidden costs such as sheets, expect maybe a buck or two for such a cost. hostels will by far save you money - also don't hold your breath about hostels having laundry facilities at the hostel. <BR> <BR>as for postcards - man, they are so cheap. in big cities you can still find postcards for about 4-5 for $1 (sometimes even 10 for $1). the postage is what kills you. write them in wurope and mail from usa when you get back if you really want to save some cash. <BR> <BR>also if you drive - pay attention as to which roads are toll roads - many european highways are toll roads. <BR> <BR>also, buy the cheapest gas that you can (not premium).

hans

Since the subject of postcards has come up, my wife's niece who is living in France told us it is cheaper to mail a post card to the US inside an envelope than to mail the postcard by itself. Go figure...

justtrying

Laura: Our suggestions are very similar, to a point: Budget for your trip. I just disagree with the need or the cost and security issues of converting to currency then lugging the same across the continent. I hope you understand that just because your bank doesn't charge a fee, that does not mean you are getting a deal. Typically, domestic (US) banks' "going exchange rate" has a healthy profit built in at both ends (when they sell you the currency and when they buy it back). For a month's worth of hotel rooms, those fees (hidden though they may be) add up. Please, if your bank charges you the same exchange rate as can be found in the target country, I think all of us would want you to share the name of yor bank! Finally, even if the cost is not significant, I think it is crazy to lug 30 hotel nights worth of currency around with you. I do not even keep that kind of cash in my house, much less on vacation.

Laura

Dear "Just Trying To Help" -- I don't disagree with any of your points. However, it is NOT a perfect world and not all of us are great with saving, or beefing up the checking account, etc. Knowing my own limitations, I figured out a way to "save" for a trip without constantly dipping into any savings I have set aside for the trip. If my tip helps someone else with my same spending issues then that's great! And your point about banks always having a hidden profit factored in is well taken. I just figure the profit they got from me was much less than the interest I would have ended up paying on a credit card. <BR> <BR>Just as a trivial matter: I have always been very, very middle class income-wise BUT able to take incredible vacations (been to Europe 3 times, Hawaii 5 times, have traveled extensively throughout the United States). None of my trips have been on a shoestring. I have done what I wanted completely. All my friends are incredulous on how I can afford to do this -- when I tell them this tip, they all have the same reaction as you -- "Why don't you just save the money". I tell them in my next life I will do just that, but right now I am too busy planning the next trip to change! <BR> <BR>Anyway, different strokes for different folks! <BR> <BR>P.S. Honestly, lugging around all that money was no problem at all. It was 12 small envelopes, all the currency in large denominations, safeguarded at all times. I had more trouble lugging around the camera!

David

Karen <BR> <BR>Airfares - a particular tip I always use when I plan to visit more than one destination is to look at the various airline routings. Think of your final destination then try to find an indirect flight and use the transfer hub airport as a stopover - quite often you can do this at no extra cost - and if the airline has multiple sectors on the route it is sometimes possible to stop in both directions - you may have to pay for the second stop. For example, on a flight from NYC to Rome it may be possible to fly via London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam etc. You could fly to London and stopover for a couple of days then resume you trip to Rome - then on the return fly back via Paris etc. <BR> <BR>Hope you have a good trip.

Thyra

Laura, I just have to laugh, we sound absolutely identical.. I am not a great saver, but a terrific bill payer... we must have been seperated at birth. I love trips were I can send money in bits to hotels in advance, or pay in installments. You know whatever works for you. <BR>When we went to Greece last year, I did a similar thing when we had to pay a big chunk of money upon arrival to the yacht charter company. <BR>