Anxious parents concerned about safety in Budapest

Sorry to be negative - but if these guys are 29 its long past time they became a little less naive.

There are scams everywhere - and if you refuse to - as my father always told me - use your head for something besides a hat rack - you will fall victim to all of them.

Are you sure you;re not underestimating your daughter?

Budapest is not particularly dangerous - and she has nothing to fear - but her own lack of sophistication. And only she can do something about that!

Hi JR,

I am sure that you have brought up your daughter to not buy drinks for men that she has just met.

I wouldn't worry.

I haven't been as yet, but have been doing research as we'll be there in the fall. Apparently this is a well-known scam on eager young men. Even the sites intended to promote tourism warn of this:

http://www.budapesthotels.com/touristguide/dangers.asp

The girls (called 'consume girls') are in on the scam. Thier job is lure the young men into specific bars. The Lonely Planet Hungary guide has a humorous take on it. "Guys please, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Trust us and the mirror"

Also various warnings about watching your credit cards and about pickpockets - but all advise that would be wise in any large city. I'd recommend picking a guide book with some frank and honest advice.

I just realized that you said your daughter is 26??? And that she's traveled in Asia, etc?

She'll be fine. I'm sure she knows to read up on the places she's going. My wife is 26, runs a fairly decent size business and has a dozen employees who call her when something goes wrong. I think your daughter's going to be fine. You though, should do some reading, so that you feel more comfortable and don't need to "pin her down".

Good luck!

Once again, Fodorites have eased my mind. Clifton, the URL link was great, and I forwarded it.

My daughter is a teacher and has traveled extensively. This info helps. Thanks.

This is a very common scam also in Turkey and Greece. *Never* go out with a stranger that you have just met to a place that he/she suggests.

I've read about the same scam (for male tourists) in the Soho district of London and in the red-light district of Hamburg.

Scam - I just thought the drinks were a little high priced. Good thing I could squeeze out the bathroom window before the final tab was presented to me.

I was in Budapest last Sept. and I fell victim of a scam as well even though I have travelled fairly extensively for about 20 years. I was in the train station with my luggage and I had opened my purse to get something out of it. A man did his best to distract me and another reached into my purse and grabbed my wallet. I reached out and grabbed him and screamed bloody murder. Luckily, he threw down my wallet and ran. Be very aware of people who are trying to talk to you. These guys work in pairs.

Budapest is well-known for those bar-type scams. But you've got to be thinking with some other part of your anatomy than your brain if you fall for it.

The train/metro station thing isn't any worse than, say, Paris -- and it exists.

Another important piece of advice is to ALWAYS validate your metro/bus/tram ticket in the little yellow [I think] machines. The checks by the metro-workers target foreigners. And the fine is fairly large.

Useful phrases:
"nem ertem" = I don't understand
"nem kussenam" [that was phonetic] = no thank you

I never learned "go away" or "scram" in Hungarian.

That exact same scam exists in Atlanta (and other US cities), and was reported on by Time magazine, several years ago. It can happen anywhere. And at 29, it is high time that your friends 29 year old son 'wised up'. He is not a baby any more.

Listen, we all know that the young man was pretty dumb. He's not inexperienced, just naive- he had been
working in Munich for several months before this trip, and never had a problem. My personal issue was whether this kind of scam was indicative of some larger problem facing tourists in Eastern Europe and and would it cause a problem for my daugter, particularly when she would be traveling alone. She's not nervous- she's cautious, but she's also friendly and trusting , and it scared me a bit to think she would be vulnerable Call me over protective- you'd be right! But, it makes me sad that she would have to be careful while she's trying to bridge cultural gaps.

Last year, before my husband and I went to Spain, everyone said we had to be careful about theft in Madrid and Seville. They warned us about gypsies in Granada. We were warned about the Metro and the AVE. When we were in Italy, we were warned not to leave our car unattended near Naples. Bullet proofed toll booths added to our concerns. Now, we're planning a trip to France and we've begun to get warnigs about Provence.

Is it a more dangerous world? Maybe. And, it certainly is as dangerous in the states as in Europe- maybe more. Still, I know several people who won't go abroad these days. As a family, though, my husband and I and our 2 daughters have chosen to continue to travel and enjoy it. It just seems scary sometimes.

Thanks for your help and thoughts.

I can understand your concerns regarding your child because no matter how old he/she is, you worry.

However, as long as one is aware of one's surroundings and not naive to things then it should be allright.

Sure, anything can happen even at home. But you can't live in 100% fear or you won't be able to function. In fact, I haven't read anything dangerous about Provence. You mean maybe car break-ins or such? I'm not sure but if it is that, it can occur anywhere. Just take precautions as you would when you're home.

For what it's worth - I've spent a fair amount of time in Budapest as a solo traveller over the past five years or so. I, too, had suspicions about Budapest and Hungary based on hearsay, but overall (on my first trip) I found myself almost embarrasssed by my negative preconditioning. In evaluating the dangers for a cautious, reasonably experienced female solo traveller using common sense, I'd put Budapest roughly on a par with Rome or New York for danger level.

RE your friend's son - I don't want to blame the victim, and he WAS the victim of a scam (luckily only one involving money, and not physical safety or life)... but as others have said, a cursory review of the available material regarding tourism in Hungary would have warned him to check or ask for prices if not clearly stated. From what you've written about your daughter, I'm sure she's done her research.

We were in Budapest in May and felt very safe even late at night. We went to places where young people hang out, we saw women by themselves leaving the metro late at night. I felt safer in Budapest than I have in NYC late at night.

I think scram or go away is "tavozzek!" in Hungarian. (TAH-voz-zayk)

My step-son and my Son just returned from budapest. They had to return early as they were assulted by thieves around the metro. The thieves wanted money, and when my son told them no they proceded to stab both my step-son and my son. Both of them recieved life threatening wounds, thank God for the little old woman who showed them to safety. My Son had three hours worth of surgery to repair one of his wounds. And will go through many hours of therapy to regain movement. My step-son had to recieve blood tranfusions and countless stitches. Crime is everywhere, just be aware and never let your guard down. Walk tall and carry a big stick. My boys will recover, and they will have a bond that only the twoo of them can share. They will not let this effect travel in the future, only that they will be more careful next time.

How awful, cpatterson! You must have been horrified being so far away.

Sorry to hear that, cpatterson. My sympathy to you and your spouse, as I can't imagine anything more frightening. I am glad they will recover. Do you know what station they were at and what time? Were there other people around?

Cpatterson: How awful! But you are so right about being aware of your surroundings at all times.

We felt perfectly safe in Budapest, the Czech Republic and Slovakia last year. A big reason for this was the four months I spent reading this board
before our trip where I read about all the scams and got many valuable tips on how to stay safe.

IMHO, the best thing a traveler can do is to stay informed by reading travel sites/magazines and keeping up on the news in the places they plan to visit.

In Provence, you won't need to worry much. Just don't leave anything valuable in your car around prime sightseeing attractions, and be careful around ATMs in large cities such as Nice, where gypsy gangs congregate. It's safest to go inside to find an ATM wherever possible, and of course stow your money safely away before leaving the building.

I would mention that the same scam is used in Paris, in the Pigalle area. I don't know if they actually send attractive "recruiters" in the streets to lure the unsuspecting and horny victims (the attractive "baits" will be inside, anyway). But I know they sometimes rely on unscrupulous taxi drivers "recommanding" the place (and getting a nice commission).


Foreign tourists are good targets since they're much less likely to report to the police.


By the way forcefully bringing you to an ATM (especially at gun point!) is certainly a crime, but charging you a ludicrously high price for beverages shared with attractive women probably isn't. You're supposed to check out the prices before ordering.

Interesting reading. My brother had this same scam pulled on him in Sicily about 20 years ago, only the people in the bar used some kind of drug in the alcohol to make him groggy before hitting him with the bill and then taking him to the ATM machine. I had no idea, until reading this, that this was a common crime.

People everywhere should be aware of their surroundings, and gather local knowledge of areas that are safe or unsafe, especially at night. Those of us in the US should be more than aware of this and not throw caution to the wind, just because we are in Europe.

Thanks everyone for all your input. Now that our daughter is in Europe, I thought you all might like an update. She is now in Poland (Krakow and Zakopane) after a delightful 4 days in Berlin and 5 days in Budapest. She was traveling with a college friend and, in Budapest, stayed at this friend's family's home. The family took them all over the city and countryside and advised them on where to go when they couldn't accompany them. She loved Budapest so much that (even though her friend has returned to the states) she is returning on Tuesday to attend the annual Sziget music festival. She's obtained tickets and a tent and will spend 5-6 days sleeping on the island, listening to the music from all over the world, seeing more of the wonderful city, and mingling with 100,00 people from all over Europe. Ah, the young! She keeps in touch regularly though email and has even bought a Humgarian SIM card for a cell phone that we lent her. As you all suggested, she is quite competent and travel smart, though from some of your comments, it has been important for her to understand the culture and the environs she is traveling in. Cpatterson, I'm so sorry that your son and son-in-law were injured. It's the kind of thing we all are fearful of- that call that our children are hurt -I'm so glad that they will be well and healed. Again, thanks to you all for your help.

Thank-you for all of the positive thoughts and replys to my message posted 7/30. My son and step-son are doing as well as to be expected. Im so thank-full everyday that they are alive. I wish I had some way of thanking " That Angel" that probably saved those two boys. No not probably , she straight up is the reason those two made it home. Shes a hero in my eyes. Anyhow be safe in all your travels and God speed.

I am surprised to hear so many negative things about Budapest. I do think though that your males aremore targets than women. After a few pints most fellas on holiday wouldgo off to a club with 2 gals they met. I myself and friends met a bunch of guys on holidays in Greece etc and went for drinks or a club and beca,e pals with them. Saying this if we feel uncomfortable we leave. I think this types of scam is easy to target male tourists.

I think your daughter is at no more a risk than in NYC.

Just thought I'd put my own two cents' in. I'm a guy in his 20's, living in Budapest, and the only place I ever see these "Konzumlány" (Consumption girls) is on those rare occasions when I'm walking across Vorosmarty ter, deep in the touristy heart of Budapest. Two outrageously well-dressed and good-looking women walk up to you and ask if you'd like to go for a drink. First time I encountered this, my spidey-sense began tingling: why on earth would these two women want to go for a drink with me, a lone stranger? Aha! Must be a scam! So, I always say "nem koszonom" and I keep on trucking.

It gets a bit tedious after 20 or 30 treks across that square late at night, though.

Regarding the prices of these drinks, the guns being pulled, etc. etc: yes, it's probaby the Ukrainian mafia behind it, and there are apparently only four or five places in town that do this sort of thing. At least two of them are strip joints. The others are restaurants and bars, and they're in defiance of the law when they don't post their drink and food prices. However, the mafia being what it is, I don't think the cops are in much of a position to shut them down.

99% of the restaurants and bars in Budapest, meanwhile, are completely on the level. You can see the list of offending establishments, along with some other sound advice, at:

http://budapest.usembassy.gov/conseng/announcements.html#advisory


JVM

exactly, i fully agree with one of the comments here: you really need to be naive. any guide tells you to be carefull in budapest. or better, the city is totally safe (I have been there 6 times already), you just need to say no to nice girls that approach you to go to bars. they have had cases like that, the police knows about it and is trying to stop it so if something of the kind happens, just go to the police. but frankly it is something relatively easy to prevent from happening...

I lived in Budapest for a year when I was 30 and yes there were several clubs like this. They overcharged for drinks and you weren't allowed to leave until your hand had been stamped that the bill was paid. You also had to buy wine and champagne by the bottle and not the glass. Now we all knew the door policy of this place and I NEVER saw anyone with a gun. However their burly doormen would discourage anyone doing a runner.

That said Budapest is an amazing city. Prague is as well. I also lived in Warsaw for a year and can assure you that if your daughter has common sense and listens to her inner warning bell she will be fine.

Some places she might enjoy - Budapest - Iguana for an offbeat Mexican meal in a quiet area with streetside tables. Also loved Remi's in the Buda Hills for a lovely dinner.

Prague - Kampa Park restaurant. The Bar at the Hotel U Prince upstairs is very cool.

Warsaw - I can never remember the name of any bar or club I went to but the all serv

oops hit the wrong key but they all served Russian vodka by the bottle and it was way stronger than in America.

Believe me I was no saint - many evening stumbled home alone two sheets to the wind - if she ever feels nervous tell her to ask the bar staff to call for a cab and they will get her one to get her home if she feels uncomfortable. Also if a place doesn't have an inspection certificate or license near the bar it's probably operating under the radar and they should ask prices before they start ordering so they don't have some big surprise with the bill.

Thanks, all, for the interesting posts, and I'm sure they will be of interest to others as well. But note the date on the original post: our daughter has been back from Budapest for weeks (and she was perfectly safe, and had a great time). She spent the last week at the Sziget music festival, living in a tent.

Other readers may like to know that If people have trouble they tell the consul. So consuls give good advice. You can read it
from Australia on http://www.dfat.gov.au/consular/advice
from Britain on http://193.114.50.10/travel and on http://www.fco.gov.uk/travel/countryadvice.asp
from Canada on http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/menu-e.asp, under "Research your trip"
from France on http://www.dfae.diplomatie.fr/voyageurs/etrangers/avis/conseils/alphabet.asp
from the USA on http://travel.state.gov/travel/warnings.html under consular information sheets
Some experienced American travellers find the American site over-cautious. It is therefor useful to check all five sites.

ben.haines@btinternet.com

Hello:
My name is Dave, an American man living in Maryland. I recently visited various countries in Europe including Hungary (Budapest). I am a single man and prior to my arrival to Europe I had placed a personal advertisement in various countries and I received several responses.

One girl from Budapest answered calling herself "Susan" and she sent a picture of herself and she seemed attractive, blonde. We corresponded via Internet briefly for a period of 4 or 5 months. So in October I visited Bulgaria, Romania and finally arrived Budapest on Oct. 17. Upon my arrival (Budapest) I called "Susan" on the phone and we agreed to meet in front at Gerbourds chocloate/ pastry cafe adjacent to the Vaci Ut. When I met her "Susan" I was surprised to find her accompanied by a woman who claimed to be a friend from further East (Brasov, Romania). The Romanian woman seemed to be a little gruff/ tough, etc. and I immediately was suspicious of her and also Susan (an extremely attrractive blonde).

I immediately suggested we go inside Gerboud's but the Romanian girl indicated she wasn't dressed properly for this place and suggested we look for another place. We proceeded down the Vaci Ut and then we veered about one block off Vaci Ut. to a small bar. We went inside and then upstairs and sat down. Somehow I felt something wasn't exactly right with this place and I suggested to both "Susan" and the Romanian girl that we should find another more appropriate restaurant / cafe. The Romanian girl refused and so basically I was so suspicious at that point...and indicated I wasn't feeling well and I left them.

I suspect that I was about to be "taken" and the girls were probably working for the mafia and probably would have been charged me $500 for a few drinks. All the guide books have warnings about girls who approach single men in Budapest. These 2 girls "fit the profile" just about perfect being from farther east (Romania and I suspect Susan was from the Ukraine), working together in pairs, extraordinarily atractive.
Mind you I don't mind being approached on the street as a "stupid tourist" but I don't like the fact that these mafia bar girls (also known as consumption girls) are now using the internet to lure American men to Budapest travelling 4,0000 miles to spent $500 on drinks. Fortunately in my case I am smarter than all the mafia criminals in Budapest and Russia put together and didn't loose any money .. just a couple of wasted hours on my vacation.

Sooner or later somebody else with a hot temper with a lot less brains is going to be lured via the internet by one of the bar girls and the result could be disastrous.

FODORS: PLEASE ADVISE ALL SINGLE MEN DESTINED TO BUDASPEST TO AVOID ANY ONE WHO APPROACHES YOU AND ASKS YOU TO BUY A DRINK!!! In addition advise all single men to avoid corresponding with attractive women in Budapest before they arrive there. Its a scam BIG TIME.

Dave

I'm preparing to leave Budapest tonight after a hectic weekend business trip, that’s had more than its fare share of drama due to some naive stupidity on my part Fri night.

After finishing work on Fri I headed back to my luxury 5star hotel (the best one in Budapest) got dressed up for a few drinks in the hotel bar with a view to heading out for a couple drinks later in an English pub I’d spotted nearby. Not my usual Fri night excesses but after all I was on a foreign business trip, alone and had to be up early the next day.

The hotel bar was stuffy. The English pub was dead. So after downing a couple of pints in each, I decided to take a stroll and see if there were any lively places to have a nightcap before calling it a night. I should have just gone to bed. My nightmare was just around the corner. Literally.

As I left the English pub I headed across the road to the banks of the Danube for a leisurely walk along Belgrad rakpart. Turning left I proceeded across a main square and then came across Vaci Utca. It seemed fairly lively, so I kept on walking passed the cafes and familiar sites of McDonalds and Burger King down this pedestrian street. A fairly attractive blonde girl sitting on a bench with her dog smiled as I walked past, older people stared. Why? Well I’m black, fairly attractive looking, dressed head to toe in bespoke designer gear looking like some premiership footballer or movie star and on my own. I stuck out.

”Hi, do you know how to get to Erzabet tér?” An attractive but far from amazing female asked. She was about a 6 out of 10 her mate was an 8.
“No, idea” I conjectured, “I’m not familiar with round here”
”Wow, your English, are you from London?” the 8 proclaimed picking up my cockney accent.
I confirmed and the 8 started chatting on about how she’s going to be in London next week, had been there loads of times before and started banging on about various clubs I myself frequent.
They then proceeded to tell me they were from Vienna and on holiday taking a break from studies to chill out for a week.

After some more small talk, they said they were on there way to a party and if I’d like to come along, I declined and said I was on my way back to my hotel to get an early night and was going to head into a bar for a swift drink. They said they’d join be for a quick one too before heading off. I didn’t think anything of it at the time. The 6 had a glint in her eye and the 8 was very engaging with the conversation. Alarm bells should have started ringing when they headed we headed off the street and into an elevator to a restaurant/club upstairs. They seemed too sure of where they were going having been lost a few minutes ago. I guess with hindsight the tell tell indications of a scam were there even with out having read about Konsumlanyok (consume girls) or warnings of unscrupulous mafia owned restaurants. I get around a bit and know all about dodgy rip-off strip joint scams. But this approach was new to me. We sat down at a table and the girls said they knew of these Hungarian shots that I should try so they ordered a round of these with Red Bull and sparkling white wine. I thought cool if you want to buy me a few drinks. One of them wanted to order some food and asked if I was hungry. I said no thanks (I’d already eaten) she asked her mate who said no too; we were deep in conversation at that point. So she ordered herself a salad.

I cast my eyes around the joint, it wasn’t a lap dance/strip club, just a crap restaurant/bar decorated with tacky vines, a makeshift dance floor and a dodgy live singer belting out crap karaoke tunes. I later found out that this place is the notorious Varoskozpont (or “city center”) named on the US Embassy’s warning list.

There was a mixed group of about ten to the right of us and a guy sat at another table with a couple of girls, who both looked bored, something didn’t seem right about this place, I spotted an ATM in the entrance lobby and a couple of meatheads eye balling the guy at the other table. I continued to chat with the girls who were acting tipsy and flirting outrageously at this point, both competing for attention, when the 8 got out her mobile phone and showed me some interesting photos of her intimate piercings, the other started arguing with her in their own language about something. She ordered another round of drinks, which we downed and then the 8 said lets get out of here. The bill was presented 145,000 Forint (about GBP522). I was shocked, I only had 10,000 Forint in cash on me and the 6 who did the ordering suddenly told me she didn’t have her credit card. I was being scammed. But there was no way I was going to cover this, I had to use my head and play it cool.

Luckily I hadn’t brought out my wallet with credit cards but had my corporate AMEX card, this would cover the charge, but as the alcohol wore off rapidly and I did a quick conversion of the Forint to Pounds I knew this was a rip off and I needed an itemized receipt for expenses which of course was not forthcoming. I handed over the card and the bouncer dually handed it back with an invitation to come out to the entrance lobby and use the ATM. Now I don’t have a PIN for the Amex and knew the ball was then going to be in there court to suggest a solution, hopefully one that would involve leaving the premises so that I could escape. Now I realized why this place was only accessible by a single elevator. Its so they can stop you leaving. The bouncer had a solution; apparently they had this situation the other night and the local Casino would charge the card and issue cash. I remarked that I was cool with this and would probably hit a few tables in there too, I said I’d see if he girls I was with were up for it and he turned to a pretty waitress and said show them were it is. Once inside I would make my excuses find a back entrance exit out of the Casino.

I turned to find the 8 next to me (the one who showed me the photos) and the other at the table, I explained what was happening and she said, “I’ll come back to your hotel with you, my friends going to stay here.” Scam confirmed. So they worked for the restaurant. We got to the Casino and the waitress was sticking too me like glue whilst the other girl was linking arms with me. The waitress was whispering in my ear to buy some chips first then ask for the cash advance. No way. I strode right up and said can you give me 150,000 cash using this card. The teller looked at me called the manager who said, “there’s an ATM outside, why don’t you use that?” I slurred “ain’t got a PIN, mate” and sure enough he showed me the exit.

The waitress looked unimpressed and said, “Why don’t we go to your hotel and get them to advance you?” Now I know they’d do this, so I made the excuse that I tried the other day and they only have a bureau de change facility. The waitress pulled out a mobile phone to call for the mafia heavies from the club. I knew I didn’t have much time. She suggested trying the Kempinsky hotel but I said as I’m not a guest there I doubt they will do the transaction. Then I quickly said it was worth a try, knowing they would probably hold back from going in as this was a legit establishment who probably knew all about scams of this sort. So I walked in, through the lobby, round the corner, straight into the elevator with a crowd of people, the timing was impeccable. Up to the 9th floor. Out through the Staff Only door and down the back stairs. The first exit I tried was at the front and on street level. I nearly blew it. I carried on further down and exited to the underground car park, strolled up the ramp to the rear of the hotel and off into the night back to my hotel.

I remember having mentioned the hotel I was staying at to one of the girls, so was apprehensive about going back but I had to. I peered round the corner when I reached the street, no one around. So I headed into the hotel, straight up to my room and locked the door. I was buzzing. But had a dilemma, should I check out or stay. I had 3 days to go and lots of work to do. I decided to play it cool, watch my back and only return from my office to the hotel in the small hours of each morning. On foot.

I’ve just bottled it, it’s the last night, but I checked out of the hotel and spending it hanging out at the office through until tomorrow afternoon when I have my flight. I have no idea whether the mafia or corrupt police are looking for me but I not taking chances, when I leave the office tomorrow its straight in a taxi to the airport and home to England. Wish me luck.

Wow, scarface. That's quite a frightening experience.

Be sure to re-post when you return safely home!

This reads like some amateur story in a sleazeball men's magazine. I don't feel a bit sorry for anybody who walks around rivers in the dark picking up women and going to bars with them. Nor to men who describe themselves in such glowing terms and rate women on numbers scales, apparently routinely.

Scarface

Well, you should have known better than to have gone out on the town with whole numbers. Especially numbers prefixed with 'the' as in "the 8" and "the 6". Why, anyone who truly "gets around a bit" knows to stick to the refined stuff, like fractions or integers. But whole numbers? Right up there with pinky rings, old man.

History note: WW2 USA scam was 'badger game'. Female is allowed to be picked up, visit hotel room, husband breaks in..pay or else! Another phenomenon; the club car effect', all the ladies looked more attractive after a few rounds of drinks! Nothing new under the sun.

To put this into perspective for all you nervous Americans, let's look at some US cities. In 2004, there were
445 murders in Chicago
565 in New York
193 in Washington
114 in St Louis
384 in Detroit
278 in Baltimore

Data from USA Today news report.

Thanks Christina. I don't know the girls names, didn't care to remember them and was keeping the account patchy on exact details as I'm still here.

Apologies if, it reads like a bit of story telling but I had to get the whole account off my chest to make sense of it and to inform others.

I read a few similar accounts now and realize I was pretty damn naive, but I've had drinks with people I've met traveling loads of times before, I'm friendly and outgoing and my description of myself was honest just so you got the picture that the approach wasn't exactly something out of the ordinary for me back home.

I didn't meet them by a dark river, but on the main brightly lit lively
thoroughfare. And for the record I'm in my twenties.

My DH travels to Budapest weekly for business. The girls are Hello Girls and they are everywhere. When he goes out to dinner, he is regularly accosted. I can see how a young guy in his 20's would fall for it. We have sat in a bar outside on the Danube and watched the girls in action. They are beautiful.

Best advice---if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

This info is meant for US citizens, but useful for anybody. Hotels should post this info for turists:

http://budapest.usembassy.gov/tourist_advisory.html

Dear upset tourists...

there is absolutely no reason for you to be upset...men are the same no matter where they come from...and scams are the same it happens in every city...the one in Budapest actually u cant call it a scam because

- you dont have to go to those places ,you follow the girls ...its normal...as usual men follow their dick
-all the prices are shown in the shop windows as well-and all the prices are on the menus on each and every table (cant get away with saying 'oh they changed my menu') no stupid why would they do that?
-in Hungary there are no categorized prices,it's a free priced country if i wanna sell a pair of jeans for 3000000HUF i can do that
-theres no point yelling for police not because of they are corrupt because they are after these places as well but because this is not a poloce problem they absolutely have nothing to do with this
-so basically if you are not so fucking stupid to forget to check the prices (just like you do it everywhere unless you wanna be super generous and proud to show that you are with 2 pretty girls) you are not in trouble
-otherwise once you drank and ate you MUST pay no matter where you are or who you are

nc

Christina--almost all men rate pretty much every woman they encounter. Some use a strict numerical system, others use less precise systems. But they all rate.

The only exceptions are gay men. They rate other men instead of woman.

Avoid almost any man who denies this--he is a liar hoping to get "close to you" by appearing to be a sensitive male. The only exception to this rule is a married man who denies it to his wife--this is called self-preservation, not lieing.

Rufus, what does make you such an expert on what "gay men" do???

This happpens all over the world. We have joints like this in London - we call them "clip joints" and, remarkably, they are legal, so if you are stupid enough to get caught out - tough! Think of it as a tax on stupidity.

Another variation on the theme in Easter Europe is where the girl gets "friendly" and comes back to your hotel room. They will be drinking something dark coloured and opaque like red wine. They will give you some of this. Needless to say it's a micky finn and you hit the floor. The girl then robs you.

They basicallly rely on the embarassment factor - and the fact that you are on holday and don't want to spend all day in a police station, to assume that you will write off the few hundred quid (or whatever) you have in your wallet - they don't steal cards they're not stupid.

Even if the mug does go to the police and they catch the girl- she simply says she is a prostitute and the money was for "services rendered".

Sadly chaps, thete is very little stupider than a randy bloke who thinks he's pulled a cracker. Some of us hhave to find out the hard way

David - Naturally cynical, so has never fallen for this.

I just returned last Thursday from a month long trip which included three days in Budapest. I was with three other family members. We felt safe for the most part but always used caution and made sure two of us were together at all times. On our last day in Budapest, we decided to take a walk on the Buda side near the river during daytime. I had three cameras in a bag with the bag unzipped (not smart on my part) and hanging from my shoulder taking photos along the way. My brother noticed a guy following us and then a second guy joined in. Stopping outside a market and a store. Then when we exited one of the markets, another guy joined in with the other two around the corner and continued to follow us. My brother and I went into a church and came back out a few minutes and noticed one or two of them still outside. We were staying on a Danube riverboat which was not far from where we were and walked pretty fast to the boat without any incident. We lost them crossing a busy roadway on the Danube to the boat. For the most part, I felt safer in Europe than in Dallas or some other U.S. cities. Not really concerned about violent crimes. But Budapest raised some hairs on our heads and made us aware of using caution and safety. I've encountered less brazen pickpockets in London and Rome, but never experienced such an obvious chase. This happened in a less touristy area of Buda.

Hi, Intrepid--I have numerous friends; some straight, some gay, some bi, some I don't know what they are. We do talk to one another.

Though my original response was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Somewhat.

We spent Christmas in Budapest. We thought it would be a lovely, magical experience. We stayed in a lovely 5 star hotel.

I am not going to get angry here - as I did on a previous forum!.. Not Fodors by the way.

Our overall impression and experience of the City of Budapest was one of the worst ever. I was especially upset and felt very unsafe from my experience. I came away from the city feeling suspicious and frightened. I was afraid to interact with anyone, because sure enough when I did interact I was met by gruff, cold and unfriendly people and I was constantly afraid that I might in some way be breaking their laws and be fined on the spot, and then the police would come and escort me to jail (which almost happened on Christmas Day as I failed to validate my metro ticket).

Some people may say I am naive and should have done my homework and that all the ticket checkers are doing is just making sure people don't try to ride around for free. It costs about euro 1.20 for the trip I took outside my 5 star hotel to the Szecheny Bath and another euro 1.20 for the return. I was so shocked that the two women (who I thought were beggers by the way and I tried to avoid them as I had not been received well previously when I tried to interact with the locals) zoned in on me and stopped me physically to see my ticket when I was getting off the train at Deak Ferenc Ter. I went to walk away as I thought they were begging. When I realised they wanted my tickets I handed them over and was told that I had to pay a fine on the spot. I still thought they were beggers. I could not believe that the City of Budapest employs people on Christmas day and accosts very obvious looking tourists to make sure they don't take advantage of the City to the tune of a couple of euro. Of course like any normal person I tried to explain that we did not know what to do with our tickets, I thought maybe there might be ticket checkers on the train to collect the tickets. I had no idea you had to validate it before travelling. I had no idea there was no date stamped on the ticket to prove my innocence that I had only just bought the ticket. I had no idea it was an honour type system they have. When I went to walk away I was prevented physically and of course I lost my temper (I am just a very naive person and had no idea what was going on). I wished them both a very merry (expletive) Christmas and tapped her on the arm and was barked back with don't touch me. The police were being called (so they said) and my partner pulled out his wallet to pay them. She then let me walk away and I could honestly see the glint of corrupted greed in her eyes when she saw the money coming out of the wallet. My partner was scared that we would go to jail and had screamed to me that we really don't want to go to jail in a country in eastern europe.....

Unfortunate, bad events happened just a few too many times to be a once-off bad experience - that I was unlucky and that I drew it all upon myself.

On our initial arrival to the airport one of our bags was missing (they were checked in together). Also about 30 other passengers' bags were missing (they all had part of their luggage I noticed). No problem - ok so we go to the desk to do the paperwork, etc. It was a fairly awful scene that unfolded. The girl at the desk started screaming at everyone, she was hyperventilating and crying and was unable to handle the situation. Ok - so again no problem, she was only in her third day on the job and still in training, and her supervisor would come to help her or relieve her for the time being and they might get some other desk people to handle the volume of missing luggage from our flight. No - absolutely no-one came. I could see some other airport workers looking at her like she was some kind of idiot and freak. This was the first impression I had of Budapest - that you are on your own and it is dog eat dog out there - no matter what. And that really is the feeling I grew to feel more and more in Budapest.

Oh and the taxi driver who took us to our lovely 5 star hotel was another story. I was very warm in the taxi (after all our excitement I suppose) and asked him if he could turn down the heat please. Silence. I asked again as maybe he did not hear me and of course he speaks a different language to me. Silence. I'm not sure if I asked again - I was quite surprised that there was not even a bit of body language expression from him to say he may have heard something from his passenger but did not understand. He did not twitch one solitary muscle and we may as well not even have been in his taxi. Again, I found this to be very strange and not very nice or amicable behaviour. So that was one of the times when I tried to engage with some people in Budapest.....

When I went to tell the people at the 5 star hotel about how awful the experience with the ticket checkers was I was again met with a look of - oh well that's the way it is here.

I'm sure there will be many replies to say how stupid I am. So be it. I am glad to be home from Budapest. It was the worst experience of my life.

naiveirishgirl,

Sorry you had such a bad experience with Budapest, the expectations of how they'd run the metro not withstanding. My experience in Budapest was quite different and I truly enjoyed many exchanges we had with local people - even in cases when there wasn't a shared language. But I understand that not everyone might during their stay. Something like that is purely accidental.

I do admit I am less understanding of your expectation of their metro system and laws. Plainclothes officers checking tickets aren't terribly unusual around the world and if ever there was a case to be made for not judging people based on appearances... Nor expecting the laws that bind locals would be overlooked for visitors. Where does that happen? The validation thing is also very common across many public transport systems worldwide. Best to check what one buys if it's in hand anyway. Well, no best is to read up a bit before traveling, but second best is to look for logical clues when on the ground. Validation is what separates the immediate use ticket from the advance purchase. If you didn't stamp it some way, you could just keep using it indefinitely. That there is an honor system is pretty clear - no turnstyles. Also the machine there that says to validate.

In all fairness, however, it sounds much like my first experience arriving in Dublin. Missing luggage, inept response to that.... ripped off by an aggressive taxi driver, disinterested service here and there. It happens or can happen anywhere. Part of the experience is what we bring with us, as it is driven by what we're familiar with, including whether or not we're used to having a public transport system, or living around very chatty people, etc. None of which is a reflection on Dublin, of course. Nor is it a reflection of Budapest, IMO.

Oy got - girly - this was all your fault. And no matter how much you rant and rave you will not convince others not to visit Budapest - a wonderful city in many respcts.

Just give it up.

Ah, irishgirlie discovered how to copy and paste. Good girl, good girl. And now go back and take your medicine, will you?

Especially when you dig up a posting that last had an entry in 2006.

I'm the OP, and since that daughter went to Eastern Euope ( she had a ball), my daughters have continued to travel. In the past few years, they have visited Nicaragua, Costa Rica, El savador, Mexico, Madagascar, and Ethiopia. Currently, my oldest is in Guatemala at a yoga retreat. I'm much less anxious these days and appreciate all your support and patience with a nervous parent.

I just read the original post. This kind of thing has been happened for EONS mand not just in Budapest as I am certain you already know.

IMO the "concern" should be with the thought processes of the people involved..they were thinking with the wrong organ for sure.

When I was between 25 to 32 I travelled and worked in many african countries, including conflict areas. I was shot at, locked up and arrested on several occasions by treatening soldiers. I had probably had every trick and scam possible thrown in my path but soon learnt how to out manoever in even the trickiest of situations. So learning by experience when you are young is a necessary part of life.
However the funny irony today (at mid life) is that I am constantly surprised how easily I now fall into the most obvious of everyday scams like having recently had my laptop stolen from under my nose. My point is that I realise I didn t fall for scams when I was living on a very high state of alert, when I knew my life depended on it. Since I don t have that pressure I fall into any old trick. It is not about being nieve because the simple truth is that anyone can fall for a scam when travelling or within the comfort of your own home.
The best thing you can do is let your daughter know that you have confidence in her and that if anything happens you will be behind her and ready to help or support her.
Personally I am yet to meet a nieve woman. In my experience it is always the men that fall into stupid situations. There are tourist overland travel operators who offer tours in africa on specially prepared overland trucks. This is quite a hard job for the driver of the truck who is responsible for the safety of the tourists and has often to negotiate some very difficult situations. If you ask the travel companies who the best drivers are for driving trucks across africa they will tell you that women are best at this job. If you have a big deep mud filled hole in the middle of an african road you can bet the bloke will try to drive through the middle of it while the woman will take more time to work a way around it !