Amsterdam Planner for the Clueless & Clued

Just in time! I'm hoping to make my first visit next year, and I'm ready to start planning. Lead on!

Amsterdam is also high on our list of destinations in Europe, so I'll be keeping an eye on this post - thanks.

Lovely! Planning our first trip next year.

Were you the person who stayed in the Prinsengracht D flat from Simply Amsterdam? I noted it from someone here, but can't remember who. Planning on staying there in March.

Thank you!

Great timing - we'll be there over the New Year's holiday! Thanks, Palenque!

sounds great. I've been there once for 24 hrs and I definitely want to go back.

slangevar - i hope to be in Amsterdam over the New Year's Holiday as well - it is the very busiest time of the year in Amsterdam the Amsterdam Tourist Office told me once - apparently folks flock there from all over Europe for the ambience and whatever - streets full at night and really bombastic fireworks displays i guess for hours everywhere - i've never been the week between Christmas and New Years and am looking very forward to it. And if you have not make room bookings yet hop on it - one year i tried to find any room for my son during that week and it was nearly impossible, even several weeks out.

melissa - no t'waint moi and i will admit that accommodations are not my expertise - i'm rarely in my room when in such a place and take basic budget digs that i would probably not recommend to others, not knowing their criteria.

As they say in Dutch "Tot Ziens" see you soon (now sure of exact translation!)

Palenque, With a 9 hour layover, we certainly can do several things in Amsterdam. My question is if we arrive at 11;45 am, should we do a river cruise before or after the Anne Frank House?? And what else would you suggest we squeeze in?? We will not have any luggage to worry about and we are good walkers. Thanks dap1206

dap1206 does your flight arrive at 11.45? If so you need to allow a lot of time just to clear the airport - it can take 15 minutes just to taxi to the gate, depending on which runway is in use. What time is your ongoing flight?

If seeing the Anne Frankhuis is your number one priority then I would book tickets on line for that, at say 14.30 or even 15.00 to be on the safe side. You can always do a canal boat ride afterwards if you have time, and can walk around the city a bit before hand, and have a cup of coffee, or something stronger, if you are in early. Alternatively if you need to get to the AFH quickly for you timed entry take the stop and go bus from outside the station (follow the signs to the stop). You pay cash for the ticket and it runs along Prinsengracht so is very convenient for the AFH.
You will need either coins for the NS ticket machines or will have to buy your ticket from the window at Schiphol which will cost a little bit more but not enough to worry about.

dap1206 - Hetismij' take would be mine as well. There are luggage lockers inside Schiphol's transit zone i believe so stash you bags there before exiting Customs - or if these are unavailable there are luggage lockers in the basement of the arrivals hall after exiting Customs - there are ATM machines all over the airport to get Euros with your ATM card. buy a return train ticket to Amsterdam C.S. (Centraal Station) and when boarding the train be sure that Amsterdam C.S. is on the overhead board - about half the trains to Amsterdam do not go to Amsterdam C.S. but to Amsterdam Zuid-WTC and Amsterdam RAI, stations on the fringe of Amsterdam - i am always amazed when i take trains to Zuid-WTC as i frequently do that there are also tourists who have gotten on the wrong train. If you have time from the Anne Frank House a leisurely stroll along Prinsengraacht, one of the really cute ring of canals, back towards the train station would be sweet. As for boat rides i always suggest choosing one that also goes into the harbor and not just in the canals - the harbour cruises give you a neat view of Amsterdam from afar - it's old Flemish facades hemming in what was once one of the world's busiest ports.

Our flight out is at 8;55 pm so I know we have to be back in the airport by 7:00 pm. That gives us about 6 hours to tour if we get our bags in lockers and on the train by 1;00 pm. Is that doable?? Since Amsterdam is a "bonus" and not our primary stop I would hate to miss the fight. Is the weather decent there in Mid November? Being from Michigan, we are used to cold and rain then. Thanks for the input

The weather will be similar here to Michigan I'm afraid, plus it gets dark fairly early, but that shouldn't put you off.
It is very doable. Book the Anne Frankhuis tickets online so you don't have to queue and as I said allow enough time for getting into the city, I would say book tickets for 15.00 if you can. There is enough to do before hand should you get in earlier.

The weather in Amsterdam all winter i would call like early November in Michigan - but up here in far northern Michigan Amsterdam will be warmer - rarely any snow it seems anytime in Amsterdam and the canals rarely freeze over like they once always did. Bring good rain gear and it may well be windy as well - layering is good - you will not need heavy-duty warm gear but a sweat shirt and sweater layered under some water-proof outer wear. Canal boat tours take about an hour so you will have ample time - if you could research a tour that would near its end dump you off at the Anne Frank House all the better - there is a boat dock right in front of the house.

dap, if your flight is back to the US our hotel told us that we should be at the check in counter 3 hours before our flight. We were told about one of their hotel guests from the US who got there two hours ahead of time and was denied boarding. You probably don't have to worry about checking your luggage but you are right to allow two hours to get to the gates. Our experience is based on just returning from our first trip to Amsterdam FWIW !!! It's a wonderful city, have a great time. Deborah

dap is on a transfer so their bags will presumably have been checked through and they will be checked in for their flight, which gives a little extra leeway.
They should be sure to be back in plenty of time as security is at the gate and can take a long time to get through.

We usually get there about two and a half hours before the flight for the US, when checking bags, if we have checked in on-line.

Meanwhile Pal we await your first instalment with bated breath.

more Pal more....

I think he's gone off for some early ice fishing

ttt 4 later

thanks for the interest - no no ice angling yet - ice has to be pretty thick to not break when i clamber on it

HOW MUCH TIME FOR FIRST-TIME VISIT TO AMSTERDAM

Of course the more time you can spend in a place the better, to a point but with Amsterdam i would say a full three days and nights there will be sufficient for the average tourist - not everyone falls in love with Amsterdam and not uncommonly some find it was a gorgeous city but somehow felt uncomfortable there - perhaps by the Redlight District, which can only be described as tawdry and the rampant soft drugs tolerance inside and out of the town's many infamous coffeeshops where cannabis is sold from menu boards with often various types on display.


i think Amsterdam has really cleaned up its act since in started going there for the first time 40 years ago - in the 80s it really seemed to be out of control in many ways - street crime was rife, streets were littered and there were way too may down and out drug addict types laying about. But during the 90s i'd say a lot of this has greatly improved, so some folk may be getting an impression of Amsterdam from travelers from a few decades ago and not now. Whereas in the 80s i would be really really vigilant in the tourist areas today the city seems much like any other big city in Europe - you always should be on guard but i at least feel a much more relaxed outlook in this regard.

And for first-time travelers the fact that English is spoken - by nearly every Amsterdammer the tourist comes in contact with - usually quite fluently - makes travel here a bit easier than in some cities in other countries where English is much less spoken.

ANYWAY - ORGANIZING YOUR TIME

MUST SIGHTS (not my personal ones but what i think are consensus must sights that one does not want to leave Amsterdam without having seen or done)

THE CITY ITSELF - Like Venice Amsterdam to me is one whole visual feast in the historic core - featuring several rings of canals, all lovingly lined by ancient Flemish-type facades, and uniquly also trees - often Dutch elm trees it seems.
For Individual Sites: RIJKSMUSEUM, VAN GOGH MUSEUM, ANNE FRANK HOUSE & MUSEUM, TAKING A CANAL BOAT TOUR, THE REDLIGHT DISTRICT (OK may revolt some but it is still called one of Amsterdam's most popular things for tourists to see) and the FLOWER MARKET. And for many, even for folks not imbibing, at least peeking into one of Amsterdam's famous Coffee Shops is 'high' on the list - no pun intended.

Other MAJOR SIGHTS INCLUDE:

Waterlooplein's Flea Market
Albert Cuyp Straat Market
The Heineken Experience (just re-opened after renovation)
The Stedelijk (Modern Art) Museum
The Royal Palace & Dam Square
Vondel Park
Centraal Train Station's Facade - one of Europe's best, architecturally
Museum Plein

And a host of other sights that could be of interest to many - such as the Troppen Museum, the Hermitage (of St Petersburg) Museum branch here, Our Lord in the Attic museum; the Jewish Museum; the Dutch Resistance Museum, the Zoo, the Botanical Garden; the Watefront east of Centraal Station - rapidly being redeveloped into one of Europe's most unique waterfronts - hop the Ijs Tram that rolls along it -

I think three full days is leisurely enough to take in the main sights - again central Amsterdam is surprisingly compact. And the trams are also so so efficient in re-locating quickly from any spot to another.

So i hope to work thru the above list and also cover essentials like the National Museum Kaart - unlimited visits to hundreds of Dutch museums in Amsterdam and all other cities and Using the Tram and Tram Pass, Strippen Kaarts, etc.

Tot Ziens - Back Soon

And i would really encourage folks with experiences and opinions of Amsterdam to add their input - have different takes, etc. this is really a forum on Amsterdam and not just a trip report.

Oops forgot the Rembrandt House as a near-must sight. And walking along the canals as an absolute must!

The Begijnhof is worth a detour, along with it's churches.
http://www.begijnhofamsterdam.nl/index_engels.html

You will need help with transport passes - Strippenkaarten are on their way out. http://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/?taal=en explains the new OV chipcards.

Danu u very wel, hetismij - i was posting off the top of my head so knew i would miss a gem like the Begijnhof - a quiet oasis right in the heart of Amsterdam - i also enjoy the City of Amsterdam Museum, housed in the complex i believe.

Well good riddance to the Strippen Kaarts IMO - any type Oyster Card (London) that would be easy to use and reload would be a big improvement - tourists used to be perplexed with say how many zones to self-cancel when entering trams.

Yes, now you just have to remember to check out when you leave the tram/bus/train.

I still find the new OV chipkaart sort of confusing. I know it's new, and I've read all the options. Which would be the best choice for a first-time visitor?

Thanks for the thread!

My husband and I just got back from Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago. We bought the 96 hour ov-chipkaart and loved it. We were staying far enough from the main part of the city, that we knew that we would be taking the metro at least twice a day, and as it turned out more than that. You have to do the research before going so you know what is best for you. The card covers all transportation and is so easy to use. You just pass it over the sensor coming and going and you are good to go. We did not end up taking any trams or buses, but I would think it would be just as easy to use. We arrived in Amsterdam at Central Station and walked across the street to the information center to buy the cards. It was a little overwhelming to find about 40 people ahead of us (you take a number and wait your turn), but a lot of sales windows were open and it only took about twenty minutes. Later we found you could go downstairs to the ticket office in the metro itself and buy them there. It was very nice to just hop on and hop off transportation, quickly coming and going to where we wanted to be. We found the people at the GVB Ticket and Information Center, where we bought our chipkaarts, to be very nice, efficient, and willing to help with any questions.

Unless you are planning on being a regular visitor to Amsterdam there is little point in investing in an OV chipcard that you can reload, better to use the disposable ones, valid for a set length of time, as grace44 suggests. You need one card per person, unlike with the strippenkaart.
And until fully implemented by NS it is better as a tourist to just buy regular train tickets.

I wish I could be a regular visitor to Amsterdam!

In the meantime, is it possible to buy the disposable OV card at the airport, before we take the train from Schipol to Centraal Station? Or is that the train you're referring to?

We also plan to take the train to Haarlem for a day trip.

Buy a train ticket at Schiphol - you will have to go to a ticket window unless you have coins. Same for the train to Haarlem, as I don't hink disposables ov Chipcards can be used on the train (yet).
On arrival at Centraal Station go over the road to the GVB building and buy your disposable OV chipcards there. They will advise you on which one to buy. You can always ask them if you can use it on the train too.

Yup the GVB (Public Transports of Amsterdam) kiosk just opposite the front main exit of Centraal Station is always one of my first stops - if not to buy Strippenkaarts, which now seem to being phased out - then just to get the map of the tram and bus lines - a detailed transit map showing each tram line, etc. And like most places in Amsterdam dealing with tourists English is very well spoken.

Off-hand, without analyzing the new OV card scheme but by listening to Hetismij, who lives in Holland, and others it seems the best way for most is to eschew any OV card or day ticket, etc and buy regular tickets - simply because most folks do stay in the city centre and Amsterdam is eminently walkable and very compact. Tourist sights are gathered together in a very few clusters not more than a mile or so it seems apart. I rarely take the tram in the city centre as walking here is so so enjoyable - as long as you stay out of the bike paths, which are solely the realm of Fiets and Fietsers, as the Dutch call their bikes. We'll deal with the subject of cycles, cycling and the potentially lethal bike paths in the future, hopefully. And though other European cities like Copenhagen have zillions of bikes on their streets i have never ever seen anything like in Dutch towns, where everyone it seems from toddlers to grannies rides what i call those heavy Dutch Tanks - the sturdy Dutch bikes.

Q - hetismij and others - before with a Strip Card for transit the more strips you bought the cheaper each trip became - i assume this will not only be possible on the permanent and re-chargeable OV card so when buying single tickets they is only one price and no multiple tickets at a cheaper price available?

It is still cheaper to buy say a 24 hour card than a series of one hour or 2 hour cards.
A one hour card costs €2.60, a 2x1 hour card €5, a 24 hour card €7 and so on.
http://tinyurl.com/lzleyq is the GVB page, in English with the prices.

Palenque, don't stop! Awaiting the whole report eagerly since I haven't been there for 25 years and will return next August.
I'm particularly interested in the best locations for hotels (am looking at the Eden Rembrandt Square, as one example) and the ones to avoid because they are too noisy, sleazy, or other reasons.
Thanks.
Leslie

Could we also include a list of free activities here? I found a Paris thread of the same and thought it might work here as well. Plus, our upcoming trip budget is limited, so free is good. Thanks!

LAleslie, I've stayed in the Rembrandt Square area several times, and I really liked it. However, I did read on another thread that there is construction going on at Rembrandtsplein now, so you might want to look into that issue.

BEST LOCATION FOR HOTELS?
(LAleslie's Q)
I am very partial to the hotel ghetto in and around Vondel Park and the Museum Plein - well out of the hubbub closer in but still a short enough walk from most sights. Folks will feel safe at night in this area (and would be in even dicier areas in fact but not in perception). I am not knowledgeable about individual hotels but anything in this area seems nice at least from walking by them. And there are a raft of hotels in that area. I'll have to track down some street names that are lined with hotels.
By all means avoid anything in or near the Redlight District and along the Dam to the Damrak (square) - to to the southeast of Centraal Station - this is a sleazy many will not feel comfy in at night.
But any hotel outside of this area on say one of the ring of canals, Prinsengraacht, etc. would be delightful.
I'll be back with more after some research - and as always anyone is welcome to give their ideas.

Melissa have a look at http://tinyurl.com/yl2zqwg
or
http://tinyurl.com/yh8zxhn

Not much to do for free I'm afraid, but it is free to walk around and enjoy the city, it's architecture and ambience.

http://www.iamsterdam.com/en/explore-the-city?neighbourhood=&x=15&y=13

Amsterdam Map - over view.

In theory the reconstruction of the Rembrandtplein will be completed mid December 2009.
There is a lot of construction work throughout the city at the moment due to the disastrous noord-zuid metro line.

LAleslie have a look at DeborahAnn's trip report for where she stayed recently.

FOR FREE? HOP THE TRANS-HARBOR FERRIES FROM BEHIND CENTRAAL STATION

One of my favorite things to do in Amsterdam is to go out the reach entrance of the Centraal Train Station and then hop the free pedestrian/cyclist commuter ferries that scoot across the harbor - they go very frequently and once on the other side you get a nifty view of Amsterdam's silhoutte.
These ferries carry hundreds of cyclists and foot passengers - i enjoy watching all the hudnrreds of bikes (and mopeds) gather by the front impatiently waiting for the gates to drop down and then you have a cyclists rush hour getting off. A great place to watch cyclists and their often unique bikes!
Some smaller boats, also free, go east over the harbor to a new area of town - a really neat development that i will talk about later when i describe a ride on the Ij Tram to a really neat area of a new town along the Ij (harbor) featuring nice avant-garde architecture intertwined with rehabbed old warehouses, etc.
But for a free activity you can't beat taking the free ferries across the Ij IMO
And hopefully with the completeion of the metro crossing the Ij to Centraal Train Station and Amsterdam proper these boats will not be scrapped - but that will not be for a few years out at least.

Yes, I'd read about the free ferry... one goes to some kind of artist space called NDSM(?). Also, I enjoy getting a sense of how the land connects to the sea.

I do not know about any artist space but that does not mean of course it does not exist - Amsterdam has a plehtora of such places - but you could be meaning NEMO? Not exactly a space for artists but for experimental science and technology, etc. in a futuristic-looking building on the waterfront, uniquely built over a busy road tunnel under the Ij.
In summer time this structure built with a boat motif has a lot of outdoor seats on its sloping side that folks enjoy sitting on.

Amsterdam.info - Science centre NEMO, Amsterdam
NEMO houses loads of experiments and exhibitions inside its giant green hull on Oosterdok.
www.amsterdam.info/museums/nemo/

NEMO
The Amsterdam-based NEMO covers a wide range of scientific and technological subjects. We want you to return home with a feeling of satisfaction, ...
www.e-nemo.nl/index.php?id=5&s=85&d=551

The NDSM-werf is a former shipyard now artists quarter. www.ndsm.nl/ Click on English for more info.

FREE THINGS TO DO

Diamond Factory Tour: some people hate it, we went to The Gassan and found it very educational, and they were candid and diplomatic when provoking questions (i.e. blood diamonds) were asked; no pressure to purchase.

The Library: across from the floating chinese seafood restaurant, 1,000 free computers that anyone can walk in and use in a modern and pleasing environ. From the 8th floor cafe terrace, one can have a bird's eye view of the city.

Of course the Flower Market and the RLD don't cost money.

Thanks Palenque, WillTravel and Heti. Very useful info.
We are now looking at the Hotel Estherea on the Singel canal near the Anne Frank house and not far from Jordaan. Pricier than we wanted but it looks comfy, quiet (we'll need sleep after the long flight from LAX and we are heading to Tanzania after 3 days in AMS) and it gets rave reviews.
Love the free stuff info too.
Now if I can only remember the old-fashioned place near the modern art museum where I had the best whole sole I've ever had in my life. Alas, it's probably not there any more.

By all means avoid anything in or near the Redlight District and along the Dam to the Damrak (square) - to to the southeast of Centraal Station - this is a sleazy many will not feel comfy in at night.
But any hotel outside of this area on say one of the ring of canals, Prinsengraacht, etc. would be delightful.
I'll be back with more after some research - and as always anyone is welcome to give their ideas.

I'll double check maps, of course, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what/where is dicey and where exactly is the Red Light District. What about around the Royal Palace? Yay or nay? Like LALeslie I'll be transiting from East Africa but will be solo (female). Normally a little seediness doesn't freak me out, I'm pretty loosey-goosey and live in SF, but I'm not familiar with Amsterdam so want to aim for something that screams "safe." I will have spent the bulk of my funds on safari so Estherea is out for me. My main goals are Anne Frank House, Rijkmuseum and whatever else I can possibly squeeze in--will have two nights. Will go over budget for charming area but not luxe accommos.

See you then, hetis!

bookmarking!

Leely, the RLD is west of the Damrak around the Warmoesstraat Zeedijk and Oudezijdes Voorburgwal (hence the Dutch name for it - the Wallen). Anything east of that is fine.

Have a look at the chain hotels - not so atmospheric maybe, but there are deals to be had and they are in good areas. Hotel Brouwer is also popular with Fodorites but you have to like stairs for that I believe! Any hotels on the grachten will be in a safe area, but they are in old buildings with lots of (steep)stairs generally.

I am so envious of both of you going to Tanzania. I have been once and hope to get back again, it stole my heart while I wasn't looking .

hetismij - thanks for the site of the artists' warehouse - i have not been to Amsterdam this year (for the first time in nearly 40 years!) so i am not up to speed on things like this - i always walk along the waterfront east of Centraal Station and have seen the old warehouses, just beyond the smashing new Cruise Ship Terminal, being re-developed and will, hopefull this late December, trek again to see this development. I'm thinking it may be the old warehouses i've seen that still have the names of ports printed on them that ships used to come from - like Batavia, Bremen, etc.

Shanghainese - thanks for elaborating on the free list - especially the library with all the computers - Amsterdam used to have Internet cafes but these have seemed to have gone away and hotels, if they have Internet, often charge a lot for it.

and yes the Diamond 'factory' tours right by the Rijksmuseum are free and rather interesting, despite the hard sell i've seen on some of them - but an easy thing to incorporate into a visit to the Rijksmuseum and Van Gogh museum.

LAleslie - i think the Singel in that area is a really nice locale - well out of the flotsam right around the immediate vicinity of the central train station. A great location about at the epicenter for walking to any main sight.

Thanks, hetismij, for your reply and advice. I am thrilled to be going back to EA and getting to tack on a few days in Amsterdam is the cherry on the sundae. I keep checking my flight itinerary to make sure it really exists.

And thank you, Pal, for this thread. It helps the clueless (like me).

The IBIS hotel right on platform 1 of Centraal Train Station is one such chain that at times, esp on weekends at some time of year, can run specials - www.accorhotels.com - really convenient, obviously, for rail travelers.

Some interesting and helpful Amsterdam web sites - the official Amsterdam Tourist Office (VVV) site has free walking tours to do on your own that you can download free (or buy them for a few euros printed edition at Amsterdam VVV - platform 1 Centraal Train Station (unless moved during renovations) and right opposite the station's front entrance. Be sure to cop an Amsterdam map upon arriving from the VVV.

Amsterdam.info - Amsterdam hotels
Amsterdam tourist information, accommodation, hotels, apartments, hostels, airport information, coffeeshops and red light district.www.amsterdam.info/

Visiting - The official website of the Amsterdam Tourism ...
The official Amsterdam Tourist Board website with information on attractions, history and highlights, hotel and excursion bookings, events and exhibitions ...
www.iamsterdam.com/en/visiting

RedLight District of Amsterdam info-pages -www.rld-info.com
Feb 24, 2009 ... The RLD infosite gives you information about the Red Light District of Amsterdam, also known as 'the walletjes' or the RLD.
www.rld-info.com/

ref the harbour area, Pal, we spent a few happy hours with our kids at the science museum, but what they enjoyed jsut as much was lunch at the floating chinese restaurant that we went to afterwards.

it was a sunday so it was full of local chinese families having their lunch - very good food and very good value.

Leely2, check out the Hotel Residence le Coin. It has, as a bonus, kitchenettes, and was reasonably priced and intriguing when I checked it out on the Web site. I read positive reviews. Nothing fancy. The Hotel Orlando (ground floor room)and NH Doelen (part of a chain) also looked well located, reasonable. Found some good deals thru the Eden chain, but they only last till March, if I remember. Mercure's are pretty good/reasonable as a chain. The big chians (Marriot, Renaissance) were too mcuh, maybe $212 euros a nite.
We're going on FF miles, so saved lots o'bucks that way.

leely re: "want to aim for something that screams "safe." I can honestly say that during the past year I spent in Amsterdam, I never felt unsafe in any areas visitors are likely to be. I mean there is never any guarantee anywhere of course - I'm just saying that was my experience. And I was on foot or bike or public transport all the time (we didn't have a car there), sometimes after midnight, and sometimes by myself. Our 21-year-old DD came to stay with us for a couple of months when she finished her school year in Paris, and we felt quite comfortable letting her ride her bike home at night by herself through all the tourist areas of town. There are tons of people out and about day and night.

And while I don't really see the allure of the RLD as a tourist sight, I wouldn't really even call it that sleazy by American standards. It's in a quite beautiful old part of town. Understated elegance it ain't , but not scary - at least that I ever felt. (We had friends who lived in a gorgeous old house a few blocks from there, and when we visited them we used to ride our bikes through the RLD neighborhood to get home - sometimes quite late at night. Never had a problem or felt unsafe.)

On a side note, I didn't realize you live in San Francisco! We are living there now too - in the Cole Valley neighborhood. If you ever want to get together for a cup of coffee, let me know and I will be only too happy to tell you more than you ever wanted to know about our year in Amsterdam. I believe we already have a date in Amsterdam with Hetismij this coming June, but hey, we can start the GTG early! My email is nycal9 at yahoo. But don't feel obliged - I won't be insulted if you decide you can wait till June. ;->

I'll have to see if there are any cheap flights to SF and join you

hetismij - that would be great!

If by any chance it proves to be impractical to come to SF for a cup of coffee, maybe we should skype you in. ;-> We "attended" a Christmas dinner back home last year via skype - it was hilarious. So if leely and I get together, we should have you attend by teleconference. That way you'll be up to speed next June.

THE RED-LIGHT DISTRICT
Since it has popped up in posts already let's address this now and yes it is by all accounts a very major sight for tourists to Amsterdam - called the #2 site after the Anne Frank House by some sources.

But it ain't everyone's cup of tea and in many ways it is not a pretty sight - not only is the area a collection of tawdry sex shops, live sex shows, tacky bars and youth-oriented coffeeshops and cheap hostels but some will be disturbed by the blatant sex for sale - scantilly clad bosomy multi-ethnic gals sitting behind picture windows subtely lit by red neon lights.

Though prostitituion is legal in many European countries and bordellos in Germany can be huge no where in the world have i seen such an open and blatant red-light district. Even in Dutch and Belgian cities that have Amsterdam-style RLD nothing is this brash.

And apparently it has become too brash for the Major of Amsterdam and the town's council who has endorsed the Mayor's strong desire to basically remove the RLD elsewhere and then rehab the whole area into an upscale den of fancy hotels, condos, offices, etc. - just like much of the rest of central Amsterdam seems to be becoming.

The Mayor has said he especially wants to attract a different type of tourist to the area and not British young people, who he targeted by name as not wanting here at all.

So tourists currently may be the last ones to see the RLD as it is and has been for a long long time - they call this the Sailors' Quarter because i guess, close to the old port and harbor sailors used to come here for gals - like sailors have all around the world from time immemorial.

The heart of the RLD is just a few blocks east of the Damrak - the street that runs straight to Dam Square from the train station entrance. This is an area of several canals, which once all the flotsam is cleared away should be a really pretty area, much like other canals in town.

NEXT - exploring the RLDistrict more precisely

And again some tourists have little interest in seeing all this Sodom and Gommorah and that's fine - and others like me may not like the idea of women being perhaps taken advantage of as has been given for one of the reasons to downsize the RLD - gals from Eastern Europe i guess being treated like slaves, etc. and gangs, etc taking over more and more.

There are actually three RLDs in Amsterdam but the other two are very discrete, on quiet streets - presumably the model for the Mayor to turn the main RLD into.

I would appreciate anyone's impression of the RLD!

Good news for those who like them - Casa Rosa and the Bananen bar are to remain open.

Important to note that you are not allowed to photograph the open windows too - it is forbidden and will get you a very angry response not only from the lady but her pimp too - who may not be very gentle in his rebuke!

i wanted to see the banana bar out of morbid curiousity but could never get up the nerve...

Went with DH to the RLD last month before dusk and spent less than 10 minutes just so we can claim "been there", general impression was ugly, everything and every girl was ugly, were told the pretty ones don't work there. Did go back the next evening to the restaurant "Kam Yin", inexpensive and not bad, has a small bakery attached where we bought asian pastries for breakfast.

Is there a reason why the RLD is clustered around the church and the chinese temple?!

Gassan Diamonds is much larger than the ones in the museum district, it was built by Jews who escaped from Antwerp during WWII.

Ibis is built over the railway tracks, small rooms are noisy all day and night.

Hey Palenque - interesting reading your thoughts on various parts of Amsterdam. As I have mentioned, I am an American who spent the past year living in Amsterdam - we were there for DH's work.

You know, I may have missed something, but I wouldn't really describe the RLD quite the way you do. I never really explored the area that purposefully, but went through various streets there many times as I went about town on my bike. Frankly, I consider a lot of Damrak (the main drag that goes from Centraal Station and is filled with tourist shops, etc.) tackier and uglier than parts of the RLD.

The thing about Amsterdam is how compact it is - many quite respectable restaurants and businesses and historic sites are just a block or two away from windows with prostitutes in them. In fact the RLD is in a very beautiful part of town in terms of the architecture, canals, etc. The RLD always seemed to me to be like a rowdy frat-boy area. Not scary, not especially tawdry in the way really seedy depressing parts of town are in American cities. Just places filled with roving tourists and jovial drunk British stag parties acting like morons. For example, San Francisco (where I'm currently living) has tackier and more depressing areas IMO.

I am actually not a fan of the RLD and really don't understand the desire of non-prostitute-patronizing tourists to go look at women standing around in their underwear, but, as a middle-aged woman maybe I just don't get the appeal. And I don't really enjoy gawking at them - it makes me feel uncomfortable because I feel like I'm looking at people in a zoo. But anyway, I don't think the area is as ugly or scary or shocking as many areas in many US cities.

Oh I just thought of a good comparison maybe, that might help some US people- to me the RLD is much less tawdry than the seedier parts of the New Orleans French quarter (pre-Hurricane Katrina). But sort of the same vibe.

Again, just how it all struck me - others may have different reactions.

Nor Calif - thanks for sharing your impressions and i agree generally - and especially about the Damrak being totally tacky - the main portal for folks arriving by train, the Damrak, a filled in former main canal, is lined by gaudi, tawdry tourist-oriented shops - there was a Hooter's here and still is but under a different name - money and cheque cashing shops at rip-off rates, many souvenir shops hawking wooden shoes, porcelain items like windmills, tulip bulbs, etc. That's the west side of the Damrak - the east is rather nice - no shops and some monumental buildings of distinquished architecture.
I'd have to think a lot to think of any main tourist drag in Europe as tacky and as ugly as the west side of the Damrak.

Just a thought on canal-side hotels - rooms with views of the canal are sweet but rooms in the back of a canal-side hotel can have viewed of a courtyard full of debris, garbage cans and other person's living quarters across the way. Ask for a room with a view of the canal.

A nearby component of the RLD visit could well be Amsterdam's China Town - as Hetismij so nicely described on another thread:

<Well it is Amsterdam China Town - mostly Chinese/Indonesian Chinese businesses and the restaurants are the nearest to real Chines food you;ll get in the Netherlands. There is a Taiwanese Buddhist temple there, which is in fact the biggest traditional Chinese style temple in Europe.
Ok it's not up to San Francisco but it is a genuine Chinese area of the city, not something made up for the tourists. The Binnen Bantammerstraat used to be the centre of it, filled with restaurants and opium dens and the Chinese maffia, but the city clamped down on it and it only has a couple of Chinese restaurants now, and has become a bit trendy. Some of the restaurants moved to the Zeedijk. It has been cleaned up a lot - no more opium dens and maffia, or at least not quite so blatant as in the past.
Street names are in Dutch and Chinese in the area, including on the Nieuwemarkt.
There have been plans to move it to the Oosterdokskade and make it more touristy, but thankfully so far nothing has happened.
You should try to be there for Chinese New year.>

Doing the Rijsttafel (Rice Table), such as eateries in this China Town ubiquitously offer, to me is a di regueuer thing for any first time visitor to Amsterdam to do.

Rijsttafel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Aug 25, 2009 ... The Indonesian rijsttafel (often misspelled rijstaffel), a Dutch word that literally translates to "rice table", is an elaborate meal ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rijsttafel

And IMO do NOT judge a Rijsttafel on the number of dishes promised!

AH YEH THE INDONESIAN RIJSTTAFEL

I always love, when in Amsterdam, doing at least one meal at a Chinese-Indonese (sp?) restaurant (Chinese-Indonesian) feturing the ubiquitous Reijsttafel - literally a 'rice table' where various concoctions are served over white rice - there will be dozens of bowls of Chinese-Indonesian foods arrayed around the table buffet-style - a big feast for sure. And yes do not judge a rijsttafel on posted menus in windows as to how many dishes it involves - some 'dishes' can be rice crackers for instance - but look at the meat dishes, etc.

But i've never had a bad Rijsttafel in Amsterdam. You can find them at Chinese-Indonesian restauranst not only in the China Town on Binnen Bantermmerstraat, near the Redlight District, but literally all over town - these restaurants are a mainstay in Dutch restaurants - every small town it seems has one and larger towns several - one in each neighborhood - and of course the Rijsttafel is not the only option but a whole array of basically Chinese food with an Indonesian bent.

Above was mentioned the huge Chinese restaurant on a huge boat anchored along the waterfront (inside part not on the harbor itself - east of the VVV (Tourist Office) - and no doubt Rijsttafel is a staple served there too.

An interesting footnote about this mammoth floating Chinese restaurant - it took the place of a much smaller boat that in the wild 80s was a Heroin boat, where local junkies could legally go and shoot up - ah the gentrification of Amsterdam.

hi pal,

I don't remember seeing the Rijsttafel on the menu at the floating restaurant. it was all very traditional chinese, heavy on the dim sum and chicken feet.

fortunately not a heroin addict in sight!

I really don't understand all the moralizing going on about the Wallen. I would never think to write: well, I went to Notre Dame in Paris today and I was really disturbed to see all these people praying. It calls to mind all the violent acts perpetrated on the part of the church over the last two thousand years. I'm mean, all I could think about were the Crusades, the Church's involvement in the Holocaust, and the Church's anti-feminist, anti-science rhetoric.

Of course that would be ridiculous. Yet when discussing the Wallen people feel free to condemn prostitution, make the (erroneous) comparisons to slavery, zoo animals and etc. It is completely wishful thinking on the part of some that the Red Light District will be dismantled brick by brick. That may be your wish and fantasy but you do a disservice to say it is reality.

The Wallen is what it is. If you are curious about it then by all means stop by and have a look. It is safe and (from an American point of view) it is unique -- this is, after all, largely why we travel, no? To see things we haven't seen before?

I, for one, would be happy if you could leave your self-righteous moralizing off the boards.

ruechapon - i agree with what you say and how you categorize the RLD as just another tourist sight and a totally unique one at that.

Anyway moving on:

PLANNING YOUR AMSTERDAM TIME

MAJOR TOURIST SIGHT AREAS
Here are IMO and IME the major tourist venues:

THE MUSEUMS ON MUSEUMPLEIN
You can spend much of a day visiting the Rijksmuseum and the adjacent Van Gogh Museum and soon again, after renovations (if not already) the Stedelijk Modern Art Museum -all plopped together on the aptly-named Museumplein. Also in this area are some of the above-mentioned Diamond Factory Tours and a few blocks to the east the Heineken Experience, one of Amsterdam's most popular things for the younger crowd. the Albert Cuyp outdoor market is near the Heineken Experince. And the famous Leidesplein is also close at hand. And check out the American Embassy, which, with its heavy-duty fortifications, looks like something that could be in Baghdad. finally no trip to Amsterdam in warm weather IMO is complete with at least a brief hike around Vondel Park.

ANNE FRANKE HOUSE AND JORDANN CANALS AND THE DAM
Another grouping of sweet sights IMO is that around the Anne Frank House, lovingly set on one of the cute ring canals that IMO make the Jordaan the prettiest part of this really picturesque city and a walk along the canals to me is a must thing in Amsterdam - just looking at the eclectic houseboats lining the canals is a treat to me. And in this vicinity you also have the Royal Palace, the Nieuwe Kirk (church), Dam Square and the Beginjhof enclosure and the Amsterdam City Museum are of special merit.

THE TRAIN STATION AREA - REDLIGHT DISTRICT - STOPERA - WATERLOOPLEIN AREA
This area, to the east of Damrak, the street running straight south from the Centraal Train Station, whose ornate facade is a main sight in itself IMO, is a third main tourist venue IMO. Here you'll find the Harbor and Waterfront, the Rembrand House, the Jewish Museum, the Dutch Resistance Museum, the Troppen Museum, Waterlooplein Flea Market, the once controversial when built Stopera, more quaint canals, etc.

TBC with a look at each of the three main tourist venues (IMO)

ruechapon re: "I, for one, would be happy if you could leave your self-righteous moralizing off the boards." Right back at ya, buddy. I think your own preconceptions are showing here, not other people's.

Maybe I missed it, I haven't re-read all the posts, but I didn't see any poster above "condemning prostitution". People gave their opinions about whether the RLD was a worthy tourist sight.in their opinion. In mine it isn't, as I said I don't understand the appeal. Mainly because you can see prostitutes all over the world. So what. In other cities, most of them are standing on street corners rather than behind glass, big deal. (And since you appear to be concerned, I personally think prostitution should be legal everywhere, although I do think there are complex issues involving the way to handle trafficking in women who do not have other economic choices.) Walking along staring at people behind glass does make me feel like I am looking at people in a zoo - but not really because they are prostitutes, but because they are "on display" in an artificial way. I actually have said the same thing about models in store windows, etc. I don't enjoy that either. But to each their own.

And yes, when I'm in Notre Dame, I try to be aware of the entire history and ramifications - both "good" and "bad", of the creation and existence of the cathedral and the religion and culture behind it.

As you can tell, your post hit the same nerve with me that some of the earlier posts evidently hit with you! Only I think you're the one that started the "moralizing".

NorCalif, I don't think the word "moralizing" means what you think it does.

I don't think this line of debate is appropriate for this thread. My intention wasn't to hijack Palenque's (very good) thread on Amsterdam. I'm willing to pursue these ideas with anyone willing but I just suggest we move it to a different part of the discussion board.

Interesting discussion of Amsterdam. We did our pict report yesterday of "Springtime in Holland and Belgium" at the local library (see Forum trip report). A couple of comments: yes we also enjoyed Amsterdam including major sites mentioned above...moving Ann Frank House, spectacular Rijksmuseum & VanGogh museums, unique Begijnhof, other places also such as Gassan diamonds, Church in the Attic, flower market, churches, canal cruising, and just walking around.

Our Indonesian eatery was Indrapura and what an interesting assortment of tasty side dishes to accompany the copious heaps of rice...wish I had listed them. Also to be noted are the many nearby Dutch towns that can be visited in day trips.

Regarding the RLD/Wallen area, isn't it true that American travelers will encounter "customs" that are different than back home? I just enjoyed strolling the narrow streets and glancing around at interesting people...and no one has mentioned the "coffee houses" where joints are smoked I am told. Now how American is that...in USA we clamp down on pot big time. I might mention some very postive things about the Netherlands including the spirit of tolerance toward gays, the rapid transit system, the prevalence of non-carbon producing bicycles, and flood control engineering such as Delta Works.

Ozarksbill
walongman@yahoo.com

ruechapon: re the definition of moralizing: One of them is "to speak as if delivering a sermon". Which is exactly what I felt you were doing, lecturing other people about which opinions of theirs they can/can't write about. In my view, this board IS an appropriate place for people to express their opinions and feelings about tourist sights. If some Amish person wanted to write about how they don't like to see the traffic in Paris because they believe the use of cars is abhorrent, well fine. It's part of how they view the world and hence part of the "differences" that you don't encounter only when traveling. You obviously can encounter differences, of opinion anyway, right here on this board. Why try to stifle them?

I actually find it interesting to hear about the different ways people perceive the world - including the religious/political/cultural, etc. lenses through which they do so. Different views of prostitution are just as legitimate a topic to me as different views re: what to wear in various situations, begging, strikes, political demonstrations, what animals (if any) it is "ok" to eat, and so on .... all of which are often discussed on this board.

ozarksbill: re: "...in USA we clamp down on pot big time". Maybe in the Ozarks. ;-> Here in San Francisco you can walk down Haight Street, as well as other streets, any time of the day or night and smell pot just the way you do in Amsterdam.

And in Nevada you can avail yourself of legal prostitutes.

ozarksbill: re: "...in USA we clamp down on pot big time". Maybe in the Ozarks. ;-> Here in San Francisco you can walk down Haight Street, as well as other streets, any time of the day or night and smell pot just the way you do in Amsterdam.>

They don't call it Oaksterdam for nothing (Oakland) - i have not seen California pot dispenaries but from what i hear they are very similar to Amsterdamned's coffeeshops - a mind-boggling varities of mind-boggling cannabis on sale from posted menus and samples on show - i agree with ozarksbill's take on things in his/her well-said IMO post.

and like the RLD i think popping into a coffeeshop in Amsterdamned should be 'high' on every tourists' agenda - out of curiosity to see what they are all about, if not to indulge. And tourists should not be afraid of going into a coffeeshop as nobody will give a darn who is there - in fact coffeeshops IME are extremely friendly places where all ages and all types gather - you may well see granny and grandpa here as well.

I am an indulger and to be honest i find coffeeshops and their legal (OK let's not get into technicalities - in effect they are legal if not technically as some will argue - i believe the local local deems cannabis possession still illegal outside the coffeeshop but legal with the back door and front door analogy i have heard given - illegal to bring cannabis to the back door but once inside legal to sell it, in small amounts, but illegal to take it out the front door. But even outside i could not imagine a Dutch cop arresting anyone or ticketing, etc. - but just telling to be discrete, etc.)
In any case coffeeshops pay taxes, etc. and operate as legal businesses with the permission of the city of Amsterdam, whose officials have decided to slash the number of legal shops dramatically - there are i read only a couple of hundred so shops not, dramatically down from over a 1,000 a few years ago = apparently when a current licensee dies or goes out of business that license is put on ice - a decline in shops thru attrition. But there are no plans i think to do away with the coffeeshops and return to street dealing in cannabis as was so prevalent before the toleration of such shops but to limit the number. You will find coffeeshops in nearly every Dutch town and i believe it is strictly up to the municipality to decide that - i believe the policy is that cannabis is still illegal in Holland the gov't has given local authorities control over enforcement of that and whether or not to tolerate regulated, licensed coffeeshops.

In any case the tourist looking for a cup of java should head to a koffieshop, where coffee is served, and not a coffeeshop, a cannabis serving place that could i guess also serve coffee.

And though Holland has joined the smoke-free in public places crusade that most of Europe has followed coffeeshops have a special exemption - not for tobacco smoke, but for cannabis smoke but i hear that the smoking room must be glassed off from the serving area, to protect wait staff, etc. I have not been back to Amsterdam since the no-smoking law took over to see how it is enforced in coffeeshops - whether tobacco smoking is also allowed - previously many Europeans have mixed tobacco with cannabis to make spliffs, etc. I just cannot fathom a cannabis-only smoking area without tobacco too. Hopefully i will be in Amsterdamned this December and will report back - but if anyone can shed light on the current smoking situation in coffeeshops, please do.

Recommendations for friendly coffeeshops?

Just got back from Amsterdam and happy to report tobacco smoking is still allowed in most coffee shops. Not in all, but in the majority. We stayed in Leidseplein and with exception of de rokerij, most allowed us to smoke our tobacco inside. The law is, as long as the establishment has an enclosed place, separate room, where the workers do not have to go, be,spend time, (work), it is allowed. This was explained to us by a waitress at De rokerij. We actually stayed at the Rookies where we spent lots of time and smoked lots of smoke, tobacco as well. Spent some time in the Red Light District and could not smoke at the Greenhouse Effect. But could at 2 others of which I cannot recall the names. The best thing to do is to just ask the budtender. We even asked the waitress if we could light up when there was a no smoking sign posted and she said, "Sure, no problem!" We also went to coffee shops in Rotterdam as well and had success with smoking our cigs there inside. Killer hash in Rotterdam by the way. Now we are back in the States, Dam sick and also happy to report, after 20 years of cigarette smoking, finally (hopefully) kicked the habit for good this time!!!

"budkeeper" i like that! i think girl-pool (and thanks for the report!) would say all of the above coffeeshops are real friendly - they are amongst the long-time establishments that do not strictly cater to tourists - esp young tourists as do the Bulldog Palace, Grasshopper and others. The Green Room, on the edge of the RLD is one where oldsters will feel comfy - lots of old American dopers, who somehow manage to live in Amsterdam, in there - such as John Sinclair and pot guru Jack Herer, who has a famous variety of cannabis named after him on sale in many coffeeshops, regularly hang out here - one of the really more low-key 'normal' if you have it coffeeshops rather than the ones serving mainly tourists (dependably good products at a good price). Whether you will feel fine in a coffeeshop is much like any bar or cafe - depends on your age - some like the Bulldog Palace on the Leidesplein are more like American college hangouts - loud, video screens everywhere, blaring music, etc. But still in those places no one will bat an eye at anybody not in the norm IME.

Jack Herer (cannabis) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sep 18, 2009 ... It was named after Jack Herer, author and cannabis decriminalization activist. It has sativa dominant characteristics. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Herer_(cannabis) -

I'll have you know that Missouri is far ahead of all states in meth labs...but that is quite a different drug than hash or marijuana. And it is true that county sheriffs conduct raids on houses suspected of being meth labs...especially before election time!

But are we saying that there is no law enforcement concerning hard drugs in S.F. and elsewhere? BTW, homelessness and vagrancy in San Fran is much more noticeable, even a nuisance, than in Amsterdam. So what can we make of that?

One thing that surprises me as a non-smoker. I never thought I'd see the day when cigarette smoking would be restricted in U.S. restaurants. And certainly not in Europe. I can't begin to imagine a smokeless Irish pub.

And did I just "hear" someone compare Nevada with Wallen/Amsterdam as to legal prostitution?

Nothing said about other things dangerous to your health
...like stepping into a bicycle lane or quaffing too much Heineken, Holsten, Jupiler, Tangerlo (actually I collected beer coasters)?

Ozarksbill

Ozarksbill: re: " homelessness and vagrancy in San Fran is much more noticeable, even a nuisance, than in Amsterdam. So what can we make of that? "

I always thought it was because of the bigger social safety net in the Netherlands than in the US. Society seems much more egalitarian there - not perfectly egalitarian of course, but much less difference between the haves and have-nots than in the US. "Socialism" if you will (which of course is not really the correct term, but one that people in the US seems to use a lot.)

Although I did always wonder, what do they do with the mentally ill in The Netherlands? I mean the kind of people who seem to show up on US streets a lot. Do they have mandatory treatment facilities? Can they force them to get treatment whether they want to or not?

And no, I didn't compare Nevada prostitution to Amsterdam's - they have different methods of providing the service. I just said it was legal both places.

But since I'm in a mood to ramble on, Ozarks, some of your comments reminded me of something I noticed when I lived in Amsterdam for this past year. American's reactions to various things there varied widely by what part of the US they are from. I knew American expats there from places like Minnesota and Nebraska, say, that found things in Amsterdam to be very "different than things at home". But expats from New York, San Francisco, etc. ... not so much. In fact Amsterdam reminds me very much of SF. If you substitute hills for canals. And add sunshine. ;-> I mean the two cities remind me of each other in terms of social ambience, tolerance, and diversity - you know, the general vibe.

Well in Amsterdam the mental cases are in the coffeeshops!

Here's another gem. There are still coffee shops over there serving beer. Between Red Light and Dam square. Just ask the locals where to go. This is a total F U to the Government in typical Dutch fashion! I love the Dutch. Appears that the Coffee shop owners would rather pay a nominal fine than lose the profit made from a night of beer sales. And from what I was told, they rarely get checked-up on in the less touristy areas...

the Bulldog Palace would be a huge enterprise coffeeshop that makes most of its money on booze i would think - but i guess the difference is that their 'pot shop' is down in the cellar, separated from the fancy emporium above? Anyway the Bulldog Palace, dominating the Leidesplein is now an Amsterdamned icon, known all over the world from legions of American college-aged kids having partied there and reporting back home. And it is part of the Bulldog empire that runs several authentic coffeeshops, including the original Bulldog on O Z Voorburgwal dead center in the RLD - along with Mellow Yellow and Rusland the first places in Amsterdam it seems to also openly sell cannabis - way before the laws allowed it legally. Indeed i do remember the old fat British bulldog that once hung out at the original Bulldog.

Bulldog you say? As a graduate of Drake Univ. and also Yale I am twice over a bulldog...bow wow wow.

Note to NorCal...yes where you live does determine your views about various things...but also and maybe more so your religious and political views. I was born in Chicago oft visited, son and his partner live in Boston (were two years in SF), daughter married to Quebecois and in Florida, and we are well traveled so don't reflect typical Ozarkian views.

In an earlier Fodor's Forum I had a discussion about social services after a trip to Scandinavia. Americans are it seems often generous but also narrow minded about caring for less fortunate. Egalitarian is a word that is European.

Oh yes, should mention we are just back from two weeks in Louisiana including NOLA. Walking down Bourbon St. you do indeed see nearly naked ladies posing in club entrances. I am married and also old and I have no idea about services offered. Maybe just jazz! Reminded one a bit of Amsterdam?

Ozarksbill

Walking down Bourbon St. you do indeed see nearly naked ladies posing in club entrances. I am married and also old and I have no idea about services offered. Maybe just jazz!

That was hilarious. Even though you are "old," Ozarksbill, you have a spry sense of humor.

I'm really enjoying this thread--thanks to all the participants.

And before Cannabis was demonized in the 1930s practically single handedly by a fed gov't official with the jingoistic help of William Randolph Hurst - who allegedly named it 'marijuana' Mexican for mary jane to further taint it - but in N'Orlens there may not have been outright coffeeshops but i understand a whole lot of jazz clubs, etc where cannabis smoking was rampant and tolerated - indeed cannabis was also i guess the fashion in 'high' society in DC amongst dignitaries during the late 1800s - so N'Orlens was a bit like Amsterdam in the past and apparently a bit now too.

but to continue the thought above associating cannabis or marijuana with blacks in seedy clubs or Mexicans helped make it a dangerous thing in folks' minds the movie Reefer Madness quite well documents this demonizing of the awful drug that would make folks mad.

NorCalif, the mentally ill tend to get caught in the social safety net too. Not always, but usually. Those who fall out side of the net are the illegals, but they don't tend to hang around the centre of Amsterdam - in case they get picked up.

Several towns along the border with Belgium have closed their coffee shops. Because of the huge numbers of drugs tourists from Belgium and France descending on small towns every weekend, and basically trashing them.
Several coffeeshops in Amsterdam must close because they are too close to schools.
There is talk of introducing membership or passes to access the coffeeshops to cut down on the drugs tourists. I can't see it happening.
Smoking is allowed in cafes/coffeeshops/bars/pubs which are owned and operated by one person, i.e. they do not employ staff. Otherwise smoking is permitted in a smoking room.
Small baggies are allowed to be taken off premises, but only one per person, with a very small amount in it.
With the current Christian coalition in power coffeehouses are increasingly under threat. Luckily the third member of the coalition is the PvdA (Labour Party) who balance the other two out for now. How long this coalition will last is anybody's guess. Next time we could get madman Wilders in it and then we're all heading for hell in a hand basket

hetismij - thanks for your answer re: the mentally ill in the Netherlands and the social safety net. But evidently here in the US some of the mentally ill people living on the streets sometimes refuse the social safety net that we do have, for various reasons; they may be incapable of, or unwilling to, comply with rules in a homeless shelter, or they may be paranoid and refuse to accept help, etc.

I'm not really knowledgeable about the issue, but my understanding is that if a family member, or sometimes the judicial system, finds that a person is a threat to themselves or others, they can be treated against their will. But otherwise they are "free" to exercise whatever judgment, or lack of same, they have. Hence the people you see here who live on the streets, talking to imaginary companions, and exhibiting various other breaks with reality. As long as they aren't violent and are managing to survive somehow, I believe they are left alone if they want to be. I never really saw people like that in Amsterdam, so was curious if they can be forced to use the social safety net and compelled to get treatment or live in public housing or what.