I might be aware of the heat in summer and the local school holidays so avoid Spain/Italy/Greece in Late July and August. I'd save those months for Germany/Ireland/England and Czech rep.

skyscanner gives a good range of routes.

Ooohhh thanks for that! So perhaps fly into where first???

It depends on where you want to go and get a bit more of a plan together first.
To me Spain is out of the loop a bit in the West and of course you have cut Portugal out (for some reason??) but I might look at flights into Lisbon, Madrid, Rome and see if there are any great deals. I might open jaw these with Heathrow, Berlin, Frankfurt, Dublin or Schiphol.

My husband really wants to see Barcelona and Prague , I really want to do France and Italy and we have never done Ireland or any part of England besides London. I guess what I would love is to find bases and then do day trips from there. We are comfortable driving the countryside but are aware with how insane it is in the manor cities. Are there places just out of Rome that we could base at and train in for an overnight stay or would it be better to have apartments etc. thanks again for your help

Have to share this site

http://www.summerinitaly.com

In love in love in love!!!!

I have kids that age and I absolutely wouldn't want to change places very often (all the stuff and the packing and their resistance to change). I'd stay AT LEAST a week in each place, and rent flats/houses to have access to a kitchen. With a pack n'play, a stroller, toys, bags, etc., I think a car would be easiest - plus then you can leave on the kids' schedule instead of the train's. You may need to check on pickup and drop off of car in different countries (as sometimes there are surcharges).

Depending on how much time you have altogether, Heres what I would do:

In June before summer holidays:

Start in either spain or italy
1 week in either Madrid or Rome
RENT CAR
1 week on the beach (either Spanish Coast or Southern Italy)

RETURN CAR (in either rome or madrid) & FLY TO PARIS

1 week Paris
RENT CAR
1 week French Countryside (I would choose Brittany for beaches, because kids love beaches, and easy travel distance to England)
TAKE FERRY FROM BRITTANY TO PLYMOUTH
1 week English Countryside (Cornwall area. Porthcurno beach is nice for kids)
RETURN CAR
1 week London

With two children that age I would organize your trip a week at a time and stay at an apartment or a villa/agriturismo - so there is more room indoors, you don;t have to sleep when the children do, you can organize breakfasts and some dinners inside (kids that age will probably fall asleep at adult dinner times in restaurants) and there will be opportunities for the kids to visit local parks and just be kids.

And agree that you need to consider weather. In the summer Spain and Italy can be excrutiatingly hot (high 90s and humid for Spain; 110 or higher and humid in Spain) so be sure anyplace you book has both good air conditioning and a pool.

As for travel - I would vote for car except if you are staying in city centers. With all of the stuff you need with two little ones - strollers, car seats, cribs, foods, toys, numerous clothing changes etc - I think moving from place to place by car would be much easier to manage than train.

You should be very careful to not overdo it with 2 kids. It will NOT BE FUN to do too much and rush them. Kids hate being rushed. You have lots of years left to travel so keep it simple!

Thoughts?

http://www.summerinitaly.com/eng/rent/property0180!italy_.htm

So this brings me to the next question ... Lease a car or hire one in each country .. If hiring ...which company is best??? Again sooooo the kcal for your help!!! Being Australian ...the heat should be fine we have a heat wave at the moment of 37degrees plus so we are somewhat ok with it. Thanks again!

Thought I should post some of the finds I see in case others are in the same situation these are apartments in Italy I have come across so far

http://www.vrbo.com/159571


http://www.vrbo.com/102243


http://www.vrbo.com/417862ha

http://www.vrbo.com/53741

There are about a gazillion threads here on traveling with children; I would strongly suggest that you search for them if you haven't already. No need to reinvent the wheel. : ) Also second the recommendation of apartments for longer stays rather than moving around so often. With four people an apartment is often cost-effective and gives you so much more flexibility and comfort.

What are your "must haves"? I was about to suggest saving Italy for another trip but I see you are falling in love with the idea of renting a villa there. Of course you can rent something lovely in Spain as well. You could have a very full 8 weeks by going from Spain, to France, to Prague, then up to England and Ireland, without trying to squeeze in Italy and Greece as well. I would certainly recommend an apartment in Paris for a week, and a week in Brittany has lots of fun possibilities for kids as well.

8 weeks might make it worth you doing one of the Ex-EU car leasing programmes rather than car rental.

eight weeks may seem like a loooong trip -- but it isn't for that many destinations. Counting the UK as two since you say London AND southern England you are hitting nine countries/regions spread over most of Europe - and in the hottest/most crowded time of Year.

Instead of 'countries' think of specific areas/cities. By 'Italy' do you mean Rome or Florence or the Lakes or the CT? One can't 'do' Italy in a week - but they can do a couple of major cities - or rent a villa for a week and not try to 'cover the country'.

In Ireland a week is really not long enough to do more than a bit of the W/SW scenic areas.

And so on.

So prioritize 9 or 10 regions/cities -not whole countries and rent flats/cottages/villas

For 8 weeks leasing is a great option. Check out Renault's program. It's based in France and I think you have to pick up and drop off the car there.

leasing is a great idea . . . but also you need to figure out the full itinerary since cars are next to useless in many cities, and you probably don't want a LHD continental car for Ireland or the UK.

Not sure if we should drive,bus,train,plane etc>

Personally with kids that age I would try to do a car rental - one in the British Isles - then maybe fly to take the Chunnel train to Paris or Brussels and rent a car there and ultimately fly to Greece and fly home from there.

But trains could be viable as well - if interested in lots of stuff for planning a European rail trips check out these IMO fantastic sites - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

With two kids that young and if traveling that much check out the Global Eurail Flexipass - valid for X number of unlimited travel days over a 2-month period - use one day to move between bases - there are also many overnight trains on which you could book a 4-person compartment or a double since the kids are so young. 2 yr old always goes free on trains as long as he/she does not occupy a seat (can sit in an empty seat if there is one but not entitled to seat unless you buy a ticket - 4 yr-old would pay 50% of the pass price each adult pays - 2 yr old goes free.

But I think with kids that age I'd motor - consider renting a RV and staying in campgrounds - family-friendly campgrounds with swimming pools and kids play areas and tons of other kids to play with. Camps are everywhere - even in large cities like London and Paris, etc.

In your case a lease might make sense if you do not spend a week in Paris, a week in Madrid, etc. The cost of parking the car during the stays in the cities would offset the savings of a long term lease (I once figured that the break even point, assuming that you rent a car with manual transmission and carry the CDW on your credit card, is 50+ days for the lease--without taking into account parking costs). But car travel is surely more convenient than train travel with two small children, and a car is essential when staying in and visiting the countryside.

We spent nearly 7 weeks in Germany, France, and Belgium with our then 4 and 6 year olds in summer 2011. We kept a blog about our travels if you're interested. http://familyineurope.travellerspoint.com/

Our favorites places were our B&B in Dordogne -http://lechevrefeuille.com/ and our farmstay outside of Bruges - http://www.bruges.eu.com/farm/index.htm

Some of our little pensions in Germany were wonderful as well. Please message me if you'd like any more information!

Thank you for everyone's advice ... I really do appreciate it! I will spend the next couple of days picking our bases and do what has been recommended and pick 8/9 places of stay.

Uk/London will be one .... So I am thinking apartment for the week and then trains to Cornwall??? Stoned hedge etc

Ireland - fly into Dublin drive south and leave from cork to France

France - recommendations please ... If we stay in Paris as a base what can we reach from there?

Italy - somewhere near bellagio, then travel down to the south ... However if we do have an apartment in Rome what can we access from Rome in day trips?

As much as I love Greece I think unless we find a cruise we might give it a miss and spend time in Spain

If we then base ourselves in Berlin what can we access with an overnight stays? Could we train to Prague?

Again I am do grateful for everyone's suggestions ! Hopefully others will find this thread of use as well.

Many thanks
Claire

"So I am thinking apartment for the week and then trains to Cornwall??? Stoned hedge etc"

Are you saying just one week based in London and doing day trips? If so, you won't be able to see Cornwall. A train from London to say Falmouth takes more than 5 hours. Definitely not a day trip from London.

Stonehenge is doable as a day trip - train to Salisbury, local bus to the stones, bus back, train back to London w/ an early start you could be back in town for dinner.

If we then base ourselves in Berlin what can we access with an overnight stays?

Dresden, with two nights preferable.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/sets/72157623230920764/show/

I see so if it's not my train to Cornwall should we drive that bit ??? Say London for 4 nights then travel south for a week??? Then fly to Ireland or ferry??? Everyone has told me to go south of England but now I'm not sure if we should ...

<<France - recommendations please ... If we stay in Paris as a base what can we reach from there?>>

Depends on how long you stay there, but there are a gazillion daytrips you can take: Versailles, Giverney, Chantilly and Senlis, the Ile des Impressionistes, Fontainebleau, Vaux-le-Vicomte, Auvers-sur-Oise...and on and on...

Oh how I wish there was a like button !!! Thank you stcirq ... As we have been to Paris before I was just going to stay one week

"Everyone has told me to go south of England but now I'm not sure if we should ..."

There is a lot of England south/SE/SW of London w/o going all the way to Cornwall. It doesn't have to be Cornwall or nothing.

Cornwall is beautiful - but it is a loooong way and there are other beautiful areas. AFAIK there are no ferries or flights from Cornwall or Devon to Ireland. But you can fly from Bristol. So you could spend a week in London, take the train to Exeter, collect a rental car, spend 4or 5 days touring Devon and Cornwall, drive up to Bristol and fly to Shannon, Cork or Dublin.

Or another option would be something like London for a week (rent a flat) then North Wales for 3 or 4 days for castles and Snowdonia, then ferry to Dublin.

What sorts of things do you want to see/do?

Hi janisj,
Thanks again for your suggestions. We have been to London before and seen all the hot spots so to speak so I guess we thought a quick trip with the kids to do the fun things like the thomas the tank theme park, zoo, parks etc was what our week was going to take.

Hubby is really keen on the driving down south and then up to stonehenge/ bath but we just don't want to be unpacking and packing up all the time with the kids! So that is why we are confused.

We really want to see castles and cathedrals with child friendly gardens inbetween

I really appreciate the advice I am getting and we are slowly getting our head around things and are so glad we haven't booked flights yet as it looks like it just might be a longer trip!

First booking has been 5 nights in Paris still needing recommendations for places to stay in London and France in general but at least I have gone 5 days Paris instead of three

I'd stay well away from that stoned hedge. It might get the munchies and try to eat the children.

Plenty of castles and cathedrals in the north of England. York and North Yorkshire has a fine collection. http://www.yorkshire.com/

But not so many castles in Devon or Cornwall and only one of the ancient cathedrals (Exeter)

is a stoned hedge a wall?

Ok we are getting somewhere we are going to spend 5 nights in London then 5days south of London ... Ferry over to France ... Stay 5 nights Paris ( got to figure out the car thing then ) 5 nights in the Provence somewhere then drive over to Spain and spend 10days somewhere over there then somehow get to lake como for a week then have an overnight stay in bologna then stay a few nights in Siena maybe longer from there we want to spend 5nights to a week somewhere near Rome before heading south of Italy.then we are stuck and not sure what we are going to do but at least we have a start! How's it sounding so far???

<<I'd stay well away from that stoned hedge. It might get the munchies and try to eat the children.>>

LOL

<< at least we have a start! How's it sounding so far???>>

Still pretty daft.

I understand that you're already going against type as Aussies by even staying in one place more than 3 nights on your OA, but having two hobbits in tow is really going to drag your touring to a crawl. Don't underestimate what requirements they have and how much they're going to require in down time and run around like nutters time. We took 5 nights to see with kids what we could have done in 3 or less on our own in Barcelona when our kids were about that age.

We did the lease/buyback Renault car three years ago. We picked up our car in Paris and returned it in Rome two months later. It worked out great.

I think it would be especially helpful with the two little ones and all the 'stuff' that they entail. I loved having the trunk as an extra storage compartment.

You could pick up the car after Paris, head down through the Loire and Dordogne (try to stay a few days here, it is beautiful), continue down to Spain, then over to Provence and on to Italy, south of Rome and then finishing up in Rome (return your car prior to your stay in Rome), fly home from Rome.

We've done extended trips, 3 months and 6 weeks, both ways, train and car. Our last trip this summer was primarily train travel, with rental cars in a few spots. I really missed having the car for an extended period. You can leave extra clothes and souvenirs in the trunk and not have to lug so much around with you every day.

Sounds like a great trip...makes me want to start planning again.

go to Spain first then to Provence then to Italy - saves time over your crisscrossing route outlined in 6:05am post.

I'm stuck on this line from your first post: "Call us crazy but we decided to live the dream ." To me that means your kids have loving grandparents to take them while you bounce around Europe. Good luck!

Hehehe our dream is travel with our kids we have finally sorted out a crazy plan!!! No longer going to Ireland,cinque terra, south Italy or Greece we are still doing a hell of a lot because of the car but I feel it'll work out best as we won't be in a rush to get to a train and the. Have to worry about luggage etc but I still feel its a lot!!! We are spending a week in london , then a little over a week going to cotsworld,Cornwall,Brighton, Dover the. Over to Calais to rheims to then go to Disneyland for 3nights and Paris for a week then we travel to lemons and bourdoux for a few nights before heading into Spain for a few nights ( just Barcelona for hubby) ...take a breath .... Back to France Avignon then Geneva and then a week in varenna then a few nights in Siena then 5nights in bracciano up to bologna for a few nights, Verona for a couple and Innsbruck for the night then Munich for a few nights over to Prague for a few nights then Berlin for a few nights then Frankfurt for a week. Then home!!! Exhausted??? I know it seems like we are trying to do a lot but a lot of it is just stopping over night for a rest from the drive etc not to really expeeriance the city etc but hey suggestions are welcomed

<<hen we travel to lemons and bourdoux>>

I can guess that the second one is Bordeaux, but lemons?

I trust you're aware of fuel and toll costs?

<<I know it seems like we are trying to do a lot but a lot of it is just stopping over night for a rest from the drive etc>>

That's precisely what would concern me, especially with two very young kids in tow (BTDT many times - the one-night stops are killers). But hey...as you said.

Would that be Le Mans? (not lemons)

I think, for your knowledge, you really need to break down each day according to how much drive time and touring time you have allotted. I personally would not want to tackle any more than 3 hours driving, every other day, with two little ones. More than that would involve so much packing, unpacking, loading, unloading, etc.

<< we travel to lemons and bourdoux >>

I hope you have GPS coordinates so you can find these places. LOL

You're worried about rushing for a train and then you come up with a driving schedule that has you rushing all over the continent.

My advice is to plan this trip very carefully since you don't have time to leave anything to chance. Rent a GPS plus get good maps for each area. Not 1 map for Europe but regional maps such as Michelin. Study the maps before you get on the road.

Don't forget to get a vignette for Austria and any other country that requires them plus an IDP.

A question - why are you zooming all over Europe and overlooking some wonderful places. As a couple of examples, you're spending a week in Varenna but are not going to Venice; you're in Frankfurt for a week but are bypassing Bavaria. I'm sure you have reasons for visiting the towns you've chosen but it's a strange (to me) itinerary with a huge area covered and yet so much left unseen.

From crazyfamilyof4:

"then a little over a week going to cotsworld,Cornwall,Brighton, Dover the. Over to Calais to rheims"

That is kind of all over the place with no good base for doing it.

"Frankfurt for a week"

Why Frankfurt? Not a bad city, but with all the wonderful cities you could visit in Europe, it sure doesn't merit a week.

"a lot of it is just stopping over night for a rest from the drive etc not to really expeeriance the city"

Why would you plan on stopping just to rest in places where you have no interest in experiencing anything? Would it not be better to choose stops that interest you? Drives that are so long that you need to rest should at least result in your getting someplace nice. Otherwise, why do such long drives?

My advice to you. Stop! Take a breath. Now, make a concise list of 8 places (areas like Provence, Tuscany, etc.) or cities that greatly interest you. Eight places or cities - period - not countries. Look at those places on a big map. See how they might logistically fit together. See if any cities could be put together in sequence or if you need to alternate cities and countryside. See if you can connect any places using a car or just trains.

Example:
English countryside - One week, One base - with car.

London - One Week, apartment - no car (do any day trips by train).

Eurostar to Paris

Paris - One week, apartment - no car (do any day trips by train).

French countryside (Provence?) - One week, One base - apartment or no more than two different hotels or stays - with car.

Fly to Barcelona

Barcelona - 5 days hotel or apartment - no car (a beach day and some park time)

Fly to Rome

Rome - five days - no car (do any short day trips by train)

Italian countryside (Tuscany or other countryside area) - One week, One base or no more than two - with car. You could even do Tuscany for 4 and Venice for 3 since they are not too far apart.


Other possibilities:
Lakes area - One week with car.
Bavaria - One week with car.
Naples & the AC - No car


Once you have chosen your primary (remember, no more than eight) bases, than you can see what is nearby to visit. You can add a lot of things (and there will be plenty) that way without adding a lot of travel time. Think about Paris, for example. Do a 30 minute day trip by train to Versailles and let your children play in the gardens. Take them in one of the little boats there, etc. Take lots of pics of them playing in the ponds/gardens of the "King." In Barcelona, there are so many parks and fountains. Venice - boat to the islands for a day.

Make sure your bases in the countryside areas have pools for days of relaxing with the children or evenings after a day of sight seeing.

Doing it this way, you minimize travel time. You maximize sightseeing time. You minimize time for kids to be strapped in their little car seats. You don't need a car in the cities, so why pay for rental and parking for days at a time. You minimize cost of gas and tolls. Give up on days of driving in the car. You see and experience little that way, yet spend a ton of money.

My itinerary is only an example. It alternates cities and countryside. You can put in or take out anything you like, but keep it reasonable. I honestly hope this approach is helpful to you.

Then again, if driving around is your thing, you could rent an RV and live in your own home the whole time - but that is a whole different kind of trip with different kind of sight seeing, with which I have no experience.

This is a very entertaining thread: First Stoned hedges, and now lemons and bourdoux. Suggest you turn off the auto-correct on your computer.

Hehehehe ... Yes that might be a good idea as charming as staying in a lemon it might just be a bit sour

Thanks for your help with sorting out our travels but we are leasing a car and are therefore stuck ... Frankfurt has a very dear friend and we figure we should leave a few days up our sleeves just in case.

Do younot think driving is best with our kids ... No time/stress to be somewhere by a set time. We figure the drive to the little towns for lunch and short breaks is an expeeriance in itself ... So a 3 hr trip will take us 6????

It is only a draft so suggestions are appreciated

Here's a suggestion: buy paper maps and plot out your trip and then you'll see how cuckoo it is. And if your plotted lines cross, you fouled up.

Do you really think turning a 3 hr trip into 6 is a good thing with two mini-yous? Ever heard the phrase "are we there yet"? Get used to it.

<<Do younot think driving is best with our kids ... No time/stress to be somewhere by a set time.>>

Oh h*ll no. Get them on high-speed trains with games and things to play with instead and not stuck in child safety seats for hours at a time. More time on the road means more whinging. Seriously, has the hub-and-spoke idea not settled into your cranium - go to X, stay in one place for (7-10) nights, day trip from there, repeat?

<<but a lot of it is just stopping over night for a rest from the drive etc not to really expeeriance the city>>

Yeah, that's the problem - you're trying to do a typical Aussie OA check-the-boxes trip ("we went here, had a beer, went there, had a beer, went yonder, had a beer") with the weans in tow. Recipe for misery.

You lot disgust me.

<< We figure the drive to the little towns for lunch and short breaks is an expeeriance in itself ... So a 3 hr trip will take us 6? >>

Have you looked at driving times? If you are going to explore small towns then you will not be driving on the autoroutes but on secondary roads so yes, a 3 hour drive will take you 6 hours plus stopping time.

When I plot driving routes I always add 25% to the time suggested. I always wondered why it took me longer. Today I plotted a route, made note of the drive time and miles, then figured out how many MPH I had to drive to arrive at the destination in 2.5 hours. The answer was 66+ miles per hour (traveling via a highway).

Well...it's not possible to always drive 66MPH. For instance, pulling away from a hotel and getting to a main road - you can't possibly drive 66MPH. You can make up some time if you speed like crazy once you're on the highway but there are speed limits in some countries.

<< No time/stress to be somewhere by a set time >>

Are you not making reservations at hotels/apartments? Will you be looking for lodging when you arrive somewhere?

You do need to arrive by a certain time because the children will be hungry for supper, you will be tired, you don't want to be unpacking, feeding children, getting them down to sleep, doing laundry, etc. in the middle of the night.

If you've rented apartments the person arriving to let you in wants to know what time you'll arrive. Don't think someone will wait 4 hours for you because you don't want to keep a schedule.

Are you planning to feed your children in small towns after the traditional lunch time? I'd be re-thinking that. Where I live don't look for lunch in July or August after the traditional time to eat. You won't find a restaurant open. The town is deserted.

I'm not saying don't drive but you want to drive about 3 hours a day plus take the secondary roads plus not have any schedule and you have 2 young children in the car who will have their own agenda. Have you tried this at home? Pick a town about 170 miles away. Put the kids in the car in the morning and drive around for 3 hours on secondary roads, stopping in small towns and see how far you get and what time you finally start looking for a hotel.

You need a plan. You've had several drafts and ideas so far but no plan and time is ticking away. It appears that you're jumping from one idea to the next without any investigation.

OP: "<<Do younot think driving is best with our kids ... No time/stress to be somewhere by a set time.>>"

BigRuss: "Oh h*ll no. Get them on high-speed trains with games and things to play with instead and not stuck in child safety seats for hours at a time. More time on the road means more whinging. Seriously, has the hub-and-spoke idea not settled into your cranium - go to X, stay in one place for (7-10) nights, day trip from there, repeat?"

BigRuss makes real sense - are you paying any attention?

OP: "Thanks for your help with sorting out our travels but we are leasing a car and are therefore stuck ... Frankfurt has a very dear friend and we figure we should leave a few days up our sleeves just in case. It is only a draft so suggestions are appreciated"

Well then, If it is only a draft, how are you already stuck with a lease? My plan gives you three different week long car rentals and does exactly what BigRuss suggests: a hub and spoke plan.

Let your dear friend join you for a day or two in Paris or another place that would be easy to get to from Frankfurt. Much easier for one or two grownups to hop a train and meet up with you in some interesting place than for you to haul two little kiddies miles out of the way.

crazyfamilyof4...yes your handle tells it all! With the kids being so young your sightseeing has to be limited...or one should say tilted in the direction of naps and snacks. Surely you must think seriously about strollers and diaper bags! As was mentioned, before you get TOO involved...do you have grandparents who might love to have the youngsters for a stay while you guys whisk around Europe?

Well, maybe not or maybe you just ARE crazy. So do enjoy planning as that is much of the fun. As to details surely many have ideas and you certainly do with what you have shared. Like staying in one place for awhile. Again remember such young children will mostly enjoy splashing in a fountain and eating ice cream! Well, you are already wise enough.

Bill in Boston

as usual - aramis must complain about everyone else but hasn't opted to give any useful advice.

crazyfamily: You say you are stuck . . . are you really? Have you prepaid for a non-refundable car lease? If not, nothing is 'stuck'.

I honestly think a combo of 3 or 4 of week-ish car rentals (maybe 5 . . . you'll know once your itinerary is final-final) and lots of train trips makes MUCH more sense.

Especially in the major cities. Cars are very inconvenient in a lot of those places. I personally think the kids would LOVE the trains and tolerate (possibly) the car trips.

Picture - walking the kids up and down the aisle to stretch their legs/use up excess energy, watching scenery go by, having a snack/drinks - vs. them stuck in car seats for 4,5,8 hours and getting in to a city late, having no place to park.

Now -- in some of your areas, a car is what you want - rural England, French countryside, parts of Italy. But in London, or Paris, or Barcelona, or Prague, or Berlin, etc . . . Nope.

Well well well . .. what an interesting read to come back to! Thank god I'm thick skinned Big Russ because if I wasn't I would not reply after basically calling me an idoit for not getting your suggestions!

We appreciate what everyone is saying and yes we understand long car rides might not be as good as fast trains but there is reasons as to why we think it makes sense for us. If you look at where we live (western Australia) and you saw the distance it is to travel to the country from Perth you will see that 3hrs is the min to get anywhere and we do that often and our kids are fine with it! WHat our kids don't handle is being rushed or stuck in crowded places like busy trains and train stations. We are really worried about the luggage being put somewhere so that when we get off a train not only do we need to watch the kids but then we also need to find the luggage and then hold two kids hands while trying to drag 4 cases . .which sounds more stressful! This is why we figure we will stay on the outskirts of the major cites and train it in with just the kids and not luggage as well for day trips etc.

So . . .rather then tell me I'm an idiot and I'm not getting it ..help me find the best points of stays to get where we need to get. I agree that staying put for a week plus in parts of the trip is a good idea which is why we have taken off ireland, greece and the south of Italy.

Remember we have been before and although it was without children we have still seen a lot and won't need to re do it the same way.

A lease is so much cheaper. .. it's costing us $3000 for the car for he entire stay. Car hire for the size we need for a week at a time is really expensive and then to add on trains from one country to another etc we just don't think it's worth it.

Sorry if you feel I am being rude but I really don't appreciate being told I'm not listening or getting it. I am always willing to hear what others ideas are but at the same time what you are able to handle and what my family is able to handle is two different things.

I really wanted this thread to be about what is a good place to see,stay,eat at rather then been told leave your kids at home etc.

As I have said earlier we only sat down last night to start the planning . .. nothing is in set in stone yet!

<< I really wanted this thread to be about what is a good place to see,stay,eat at >>

I've read all your posts and never once did I realize what you wanted. Probably because it's difficult to give sightseeing or lodging advice when you don't say, or know, what towns/cities you'll be visiting. You're not even sure what countries you'll be in as nothing is set in stone.

I guess I was mislead by your phrase:
<< Looking forward to what everyone can offer! >>

Once you firm up your itinerary people will be able to give better advice. If you only want sightseeing, restaurant, and lodging advice you should make that clear. For lodging and restaurants you should give a budget range.

adrenne it wasn't you that I have found rude it was "Russ"

I didn't want to "firm" up the itinerary purely because there might of been places that weren't worth going to and places nearby that might of been better etc or even people sharing what they did and wht worked for them.

But I just felt the last couple of comments were mean and rude and uncalled for . .that's all.

Lease isn't booked in yet but our travel agent assures us that this is the best money wise with children.

London 7 days is booked in . .apartment is chosen . .parking is sorted

Cotsworld area for 3 nights is planned but where we stay and what we do isn't

Cornwall area for 3 nights is planned but where we stay and what we do isn't

Brighton for 2 nights is planned but where we stay and what we do isn't

Ferry over to Dover .. who we use isn't sorted

Rheims for 2 nights is planned but where we stay and what we do isn't

DisneyLand 3 nights is planned and we are looking at the Explores Hotel

Paris for one week is booked but what we do isn't

we have a week to travel from Paris to Barcelona . . .

Barcelona for 3 nights

we then have 3 nights to get us over to Verenna in Italy

We have a week in verenna booked

Siena for 3 nights - not booked yet so if there is something that would be better then that's fine

Bracciano 4 nights - not booked yet so if there is something that would be better then that's fine

Bologna 2nights - not booked yet so if there is something that would be better then that's fine

Varona for the night - not booked yet so if there is something that would be better then that's fine

Innsbruck for the night - not booked yet so if there is something that would be better then that's fine

Munich for 2 nights - not booked yet so if there is something that would be better then that's fine

Prague 3 nights- not booked yet but this is a must for hubby

Berlin 3 nights - not booked yet but this is a must for hubby

Frankfurt 4 nights - not booked yet so if there is something that would be better then that's fine but we are flying out from Frankfurt.

So hopefully this explains things a bit more. I do appreciate advise and suggestions but not being told I'm an idiot and not listening. I'm not sure why people feel the need to be rude. If you don't have something nice to say then say nothing.

Again for those that are being helpful ..thank you!

Most people here are trying to help but there are always a few who are not offering substantive advice. Ignore the few.

I travel very differently than you and have not been to several of your locations so can't offer much more advice.

In Prague I loved the Municipal House tour and visiting the synagogues. Your kids might enjoy a marionette show. Just wandering around Prague is a delight as it's so beautiful.

I remember reading a Paris trip report of a couple with a toddler and it was very interesting and affirming. They had a second child and returned to Paris with both their children. I read the first report but not the second. You might find their reports interesting.

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/elmo-in-paris-the-parisian-adventures-of-two-parents-one-toddler-and-one-red-monster.cfm?99

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/elmo-in-paris-part-2-new-paris-adventures-of-our-family-of-four.cfm?2

thank you so much for your help I'll read those reports from Paris.

I'm sure we travel differently because you aren't 20hrs away We would of loved 2 months in Paris or Italy but we just don't know when we will ever get back. It's been 10 years since the last time! So Hubby said he had to go to Spain, Prague and Berlin. I just wanted to go and see more of France and Italy with a trip to England on the way. I really would of loved Greece and the south of italy but I have taken everyones advice and decided with young kids it would be better to save this as a trip my husband and I can take when they are older.

Many thanks again, Claire

Hi Claire,

Sorry you won't be going to Greece, but think that is the right decision. I normally don't reply to posts about long multi-country itineraries, except to comment about portions of it I know well. When I do post advice I give it only one shot — I figure it is up to the OP to decide whether to follow my advice or not. And I was serious about that auto-correct.

What I would recommend, though, is to stay as flexible as possible, and get the southern Europe part of the trip done as early in the summer as possible. When you get to late July and August many northern Europeans hit the road, clogging up the autoroutes to the Med, especially on weekends. Some seaside resorts that are pleasant to visit in June are overcrowded in August.

I did a trip similar to yours, travelling by car through France to Spain, then along the Med to Italy. It was probably faster paced than yours, but lots of fun. And I have been to Australia a couple of times (unfortunately never to WA) so know what long distances you Aussies are used to travelling. Allow yourself some extra time to stop and see things that you discover along the way. I remember travelling past Carcassonne in SW France and seeing it from a distance, but no time to stop and explore the city — I have regretted that ever since.

Late jumping in here. When our children were ages 2 and 4, we lived in Sweden. They were pretty much pieces of luggage when we wanted to travel. My thoughts - is London necessary? Out of all the places we have been, this is the one place they were treated the worst, friendly. Bus drivers did not wait, people were angry we had strollers, restuarants ignored us, the tube has no escalators. Went to Newcastle in the north - adored children, patient, kind. Same for Ireland. In Avignon, go to Arles to the bullfight. No bull killings, and the kids were transfixed. Beaches closeby are really pretty nice. In Berlin, do NOT miss the zoo. Why Frankfurt? Not particularly attractive, but a good hub for travel. In Germany, eat in the kebab houses - they are friendliest towards children, as well as bakeries. Next time, include Cyprus, Poland, and Sweden - they have been the most "child friendly" in our experience.

Much nicer to come home to!!! Thanks for the advice both of you! I love London and we thought it would take a couple of days after the long flight to recover and we thought starting here when we know would be best. As we finish up in Germany our lease drop off is in Frankfurt and our flights are out from there since that was the cheapest and we have friends there we thought we would go there ... If what you say is right we will take a train trip to Luxembourg for a day or maybe just go for 2nighs rather than 4

Thanks again for your suggestions ... I've made points from them

Chat soon!!!!

<<We are really worried about the luggage being put somewhere so that when we get off a train not only do we need to watch the kids but then we also need to find the luggage and then hold two kids hands while trying to drag 4 cases.>>

Just so you know, your luggage doesn't "get put somewhere" on European trains - YOU put it wherever YOU want to put it.

Europe isn't Australia. Having a car for many of these destinations is going to prove a nightmare, IMO. In fact, the whole "plan" is so bizarre, I think I'll just give up.

Good luck.

I have hesitated to comment, in part because so much of the initial postings have been vague, over the map, and accompanied by so many happy faces and 'hehehe's'. I understand that you are now unhappy with what you perceive to be criticisms of your grand plan, but here goes.

I understand that you are coming a great distance (our daughter and her family are currently visiting the inlaws in Canberra), and it's wonderful that you can take the 8 weeks to do this, BUT you are still criss-crossing Europe in a rental car, with very young children in tow. It sounds like both babes are going to nap in car seats and strollers for 8 weeks. I wish you luck with that.

The advice you have been given to plot this out on a paper map was great, but it sounds like you have already gone and booked places. The other best piece of advice was to pick 8 places, rent apartments and make day trips in concentric cricles from the bases. Perhaps also too late.

In all honesty the part of your current planning that should concern you are all these 1 night rest stops. I have 3 young grandsons under 4; we have traveled with them, and they have visited us. They often have sleep issues the first night or two in a new place. Your children are going to be sleeping 'new' pretty much every few nights for 8 weeks.

So while your plan is brave and adventurous, I hope there is still time to rework some of it to slow down and do more than jump in and out of a rental car. Car seats,strollers, luggage, meal schedules and the need to do laundry will have to be a big and constant part of this trip. Please understand that what you
may perceive as negativity is really an honest effort to help you enjoy this long and expensive trip. But I also have to say that since your 2 year old will remember little and the 4 year old is going to remember the back sear of the rental car, you really should rethink some of the travel and find places where you can spend time in local parks, stroll the town square, etc. Our 2 year old grandson may have had a great day at Disneyland here in CA last spring, doubt he remembers a thing; 3 days at those ages may be overkill.

I will say that your trip sounds better, but IMHO still too much flitting about. Good luck.

Well i read everyones post and thought Sassafrasses had the best itinerary,, but hey you have to see what you want to see.
I will offer one piece of unsolicted advice. Do not pack 4 bags for 2 adults to deal with. One adult is on luggage duty( and parking car ,which in many cities is not going to be near the hotel or apartment, so will have to drop off the stuff and then park) one is pushing stroller and holding one childs hand.
It doesn't matter that you are going for 8 weeks, you only need a weeks worth of clothes each, do laundry when you can, apartment rentals will often have laundry, look for this feature. I had 3 kids and we took two medium large cases ,, hubby handled them, older kids ( by 6yrs ) can handle a little backpack with personal treasures, I handled stroller, diaper bag, and rug rats,, ( and are spacing was boy 8, boy 6 , girl 2) when we did our first "big trips" to America, we did some cruises and trips to Hawaii ( so single trip unpack once) when the baby was 9 months old , boys then a 4 and 6 yr old)

Single biggest stressor was logistics of transfers, parking, luggage, kid transporting through busy streets . We had three you have only 2 but you have made a much more complicated plan then we ever would. I live in Canada, so yes, we are used to long drives too, but kids , even ones who are ok with long drives , will eventually wear out after weeks and weeks.

You still have alot up in the air too , Ilike planning but wow i am finding your plans or lack of very daunting.. its hard to nail you down,, a wandering bunch of aussies,,lol

In Paris if you can, rent an apartment near Luxembourg( 5th or 6th) Gardens, kids will love it , and its still central enough to walk to many sites if you stay closer to the Seine side of the park. Buses better option then metro for strollers and tots, less stress getting off as a bunch in 1 minute if car is crowded , less stairs, and buses have buggy space in centers.

For sanity I would park outside Paris ( lots are cheaper, its about 25 euros a day to park in city) and take RER in, just me, city driving there is not fun, parking near sites impossible almost, and you simply do not need a car there .

Daytrips , kids enjoy Provins, ( look it up, world heritage site, old medival living museum type place) reachable from Disneyland by car pretty easy, and from Paris take the RER to Versailles, its 7 euros per adult return, takes 40-45 minutes. Palace is a crowded sh*t show, (its worth seeing but in summer the heat and crowds are nasty) just whiz through that, and get outside, the grounds are amazing, not totally stroller friendly in formal gardens near palace, but Marie Antionettes Hamlet is so fun, my 11 yr old thought it was very cute, and there is a small petting zoo there. Versailles is free for kids under 18 . Smart thing to do, pack a picnic lunch to enjoy on grounds, you will have to check it at palace but they do provide the service and will give it back to you when you leave palace and go out to grounds. Since you have an apartment picnics are fun to put together, you can buy an ice cream on the grounds as a treat on the grounds ( there is a sandwich/pizza concession in the gardens ,and a cafe/lunch place down by the canal).

Oh, another thing. Consider buying a stroller once you get there. The strollers we brought from the USA were eaten alive by the cobblestones. Our stroller was designed for a sidewalk and we needed an off road vehicle. I have no idea about Australia, but they had these little skateboards in Sweden (and Germany) that you clip onto the back wheels of the stroller so older child rode standing up. However, we found that she would eventually kneel on the board, throw the majority of her body into the bottom of the stroller and simply sleep there. We got lots of stares, but it worked. And, you know your kids - my kids did fine with hardcore travel and bouncing around and sleeping in cars. Also, perhaps you can consider putting in your budget some babysitting funds - there are sites where you can hire a sitter in most major cities and perhaps you and your husband would want to go out alone once the kids are asleep? Then language won't matter if the kids sleep through it and you can enjoy a cold beer together in Prague, even if it is just in the hotel lounge.

Thanks for all this!

It must be an Aussie thing but we just don't think spend 3-4 hrs in a car is that long in a day trip and yes our kids sleepi in cars even when they only just woke up

Of couse we would like to stay longer in those places that are just 2nights but we just don't have the time and the distance from Italy to Prague is long ... So we make do with the best situation we can come up with.

Love the ideas given ...the train thing won't happen with luggage and kids...we have had a few friends now who have had cars broken into and luggage stolen from the train because they were watching their kids etc so we will always be with our luggage or it'll be in the hotel /apartment and cross our fingers

We have a bugaboo pram the the kids love and my son can stand on the back of but we aren't sure if we should take it or buy a stroller ...

Yes we will be seeing lots of parks,zoos and toy shops I almost want to write a trip report from the eyes of a child ...I am looking forward to being there with the kids and seeing things we would of otherwised missed.

Our apartment in Paris is walking distance to the lux gardens . . .based from previous recommendations

Like I said before advice is one thing but being told you are an idiot and not listening is another!

So .... Our planning continues ... We are trying to get centre points for week stays and take drives and trains from those bases ...so London, Paris , lake como and bracciano is all we have so far.

But that's still half the trip spread with shorter stays ... So I do feel I have listened and I have got some great advice.

Oh and with my kids Disneyland could never get overkill

So I'm feeling really comfortable with our stay in Paris thanks to the great thread shared prior .... Would love to know how you would suggest the drive from Paris to Barcelona should be and the drive from Barcelona to the lakes as this is what wearegoingto try and sort over the next couple of days.

Many thanks,
Claire

". . . so we will always be with our luggage or it'll be in the hotel /apartment and cross our fingers"

How do you plan on managing that? You have days and days of endless car travel. Per the above, you won't be able to stop anywhere to see anything or even have a meal along the way since you'll have to leave everything in the vehicle.

AndiM - love your suggestions, considering both of them for our family vacation. Thank you for sharing your great finds!

It might ease your mind to take a retractable ski chain lock that can be woven through the handles of your luggage. It makes it more difficult to grab a suitcase and run.

ooohhh Michael you might be right!

Today I have started to give a lot of thought towards all this advice! We went to a travel agent and got some info in car rentals per country and train info.

We are going to spend some time looking into just what will work best since everyone believes the car leasing is not the ideal situation.

I guess some other options is seeing if there is a place to leave luggage and travel on the light with the trains so we wont have to worry about luggage ...ie train it to barcelona from paris...the lady who we have our apartment booked with has already said she is fine with storing our main cases if this is what we would like to do.

All your suggestions have been great! I do agree that staying put in one places and doing day trips from that point makes sense ..it's just now seeing how I can keep everyone happy

Can you believe the bloody travel agent today said . .if I was you I would do a 10 day tour of the greek islands so you can get the discounts on the airfares!

Anyway keep the thread coming and I'll keep posting where we are at. Like I said really happy with the accommodation we have in Paris so at least that is one thing

Chat soon

I've always felt that if you park your car in busy well-lit areas and put your belongings out of sight, your car is unlikely to be broken into. You will obviously carry your passports and other valuables with you, and anything else can be replaced.

thanks Heimdall!

Another tip - I was told that even if it is obvious you are driving a rental car, put a newspaper in the native language on the front seat and hide anything written in your own language. That way a thief will look and assume that the person who rented the car is "in country" and will be more attentive to a criminal case, but a person who is from afar will just give up and go home. Home magazines work for me because I can at least look at the pretty pictures. No idea about a bugaboo stroller - if it could handle the outback, it should be able to handle Prague/Italy. And don't pack lots of the kids' stuff - they will find that new book, even if it is in another language, cool because they haven't seen it before and there are lots of places to find 1 euro enertainment. And, frankly, anywhere you are outside with the kids people will be friendly and in Southern Italy, they will probably offer them sweets a lot.

i think we are going to do what you suggest and pack a really cheap stroller and then hoprfully buy one there

love the magazine idea and yes we aren't packing much for the kids! We are going to make a book while we travel with pictures and postcards etc that they like and that should keep my son entertained.

Also I spoil my kids . .. I admit it!! So I know as a shopaholic I know I will be buying alot of things for them while we are away

Ok back to finding out how we are going to get from Paris to Barcelona. Just suggested we train it but hubby is keen on driving it! SO if we are to drive where would you recommend the stop offs to be and for how long?

Chat soon

The drive from Paris to Barcelona ( with two kids and assorted stops along the way because of kids) will mean about 2 days I figure, and the plane ride is 1 hour and 50 minutes. We flew Barcelona to Paris this past summer on Easyjet, it cost for the two of us, with taxes, fees, and one peice of checked luggage each a total of 97 euros( not each, total!) ,, the drive will cost more( gas, rental car,food and an overnight hotel in transit, and road tolls) will cost alot more and take more time, this may be a good leg to look at cost/time factors..

When we were in Europe this summer I repeatedly commented to my husband about the 'off road capable' baby strollers that we saw everywhere. Most notably were the huge tires that just glided over the cobblestones. They were mostly on the large size for a stroller, but boy did they look comfy.

Well! You being Aussies does help me understand a bit more about your daring to travel long and hard. At various times we have this found this about folks coming from Australia
...coming all that distance so make it extensive.

I really don't think people are intending to be mean and crude, maybe just questioning the idea of such very young children on such an adventure. So it would be well simply to focus on kids not destinations, i.e., sleeping and eating and entertainment which you've talked about. So it also means longer stays and not pushing too hard.

That in mind I would question down to Barcelona and then over to Italy and of course you are also headed up to Austria, Germany. That on top of quite a bit of England.

I'm thinking about our 3 year old granddaughter and realizing how fussy she does get. Yes even remember the older three gr'kids who had little patience with long trips. And sometime long ago our own three whining and fighting in the back seat (they do get along well now). I do think today the various handheld devices are a help for youngsters traveling long distances.

Anyway apologies for seemingly giving unwanted advice. Interesting about cobblestone-adapted strollers.

Bill in Boston

Crazyfamily: Looks like we got through to you

You'll get lots of terrific advice (as if you hadn't gotten too much already )

But I might suggest starting yet another thread -- since this one has taken a life of its own and is based on your original ideas of driving everywhere.

Maybe a topic along the lines of >>New plan - how does this itinerary look? << or >>crazyfamilyof4's not so crazy second plan<< or something else.

I will probably get reprimanded for suggesting this, but have you considered getting a portable car DVD for the long hauls? The one we had wasn't heavy yet fairly sturdy, and we would only whip it out when they were starting to lose it. And at that age, there is no upper limit to how many times they can watch Toy Story, and you would be adding limited weight. We did not use it in Europe, but it got us 300 miles in the U.S. without complaint. How are you traveling in France? From Avignon area or from Paris? Regardless, the Cathar castles like Peyrepetruse are pretty amazing. These are about 4 hours from Barcelona, I think. Beach fairly close in Narbonne. Here is a castle link.
http://www.catharcastles.info/peyrepertuse.php?key=peyrepertuse

Hi from a fellow West Australian - albeit one who has not lived there for a long time.
I won't enter into your route planing discussions as there have been some great helpful comments - and you seem to be re thinking some of the trickier bits.
One thought re car travel - is it possible to guarantee that the car is air conditioned? We have travelled a lot with our three, now adult, offspring.
I remember one dreadful time in the UK in summer in a heatwave - and our car was very uncomfortable.
At the time we had been living in Darwin so were heat attuned.
It does get very hot and I think we sometimes do not realise this!
Our son spent quite a few hours in the bath - and I cooled the tap water down with ice cubes!The stone walls in our hotel were warm to touch.

We have also traveled with the three of them by train a lot and provided you do not have four huge bags then it was not too much of a challenge.Indeed it was relaxing and a good break from moving around and sightseeing all the time.

Another important thing we recall is to remember that there has to be down time for adults and children alike.
This might mean a few hours watching TV, playing on some grass or in a pool, or indeed maybe just staying quietly at home.

So happy planning - take your time - keep looking at the map and distances.
Our kids were well used to outback travel and long distances, but I would have lots of spare days planned if this was to go for eight weeks.

It will be a good, if challenging, experience.

Oops forgot to say I agree maybe a good idea to start a fresh thread.

Hello!
I started writing a long reply, then I remembered I had post something similar a few weeks ago. This was about a trip with kids in Ireland, but it doesn't matter. Advice is more or less the same. You may want to have a look on my (and others) pointers:
http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/itinerary-help-2-weeks-in-ireland-with-2-small-kids.cfm

hi ... thanks for that! Great advice! We have taken into account what everyone has said and we are making sure we are staying at places with pools etc and that we have days to just relax.

Early someone asked why we were missing some places .. . we have been before ..we have been to a lot of major cities but not the countryside. This is why we thought driving would be better. We wanted this trip to be about seeing parts that you need a car to see.

The journey continues and once I have more of an idea I will post a new thread.

We are looking like our France stay will be Reims, Disney,Paris,Tours then we aren't sure about Dordogne/Bordeaux/Toulouse/Lourdes.

Regardless of what others have said, I believe car is the right mode of transport for your particular journey. I drive in England every day, and have made many trips by car on the continent. With your focus on the countryside (as opposed to cities), a car is by far the most convenient way to get around.

My daughter just spent five months travelling around Europe in a Land Rover, and had a wonderful time. She and her boyfriend are now continuing their overland trip in Africa on their way to Cape Town. Compared to what they are doing, your trip will be a walk in the park.

CrazyFamily, in all sincerity I do not intend the following as criticism, as everyone has their own travel style. I am just sharing my experience as a parent. Our children are 11 and 16, and I would not consider an itinerary like the one you are planning, and they have been traveling with us since our youngest was 2.

I think you are seriously underestimating how much time you will be spending in a car. That you drive a minimum of 3 hours to get somewhere in Australia shouldn't mean that you must drive longer in Europe in order for it be considered a vacation. Our 11-year old and I are planning a mom-daughter road trip around Europe this summer, and each time we work on the itinerary the destinations become fewer and the driving time becomes shorter. Neither of us wants to "see Europe" from the front seat of our car.

Your itinerary involves driving in cities with trams. We have been living (and driving) in Vienna now for six months, and driving along with trams, or across the tracks in heavy traffic can still put me on edge. Keep in mind how that might play out with road-weary parents and cranky and hungry children who haven't been eating their favorite foods for weeks.

As a parent I will also add this: at some point you will have a sick child. The lovely drive we though we were taking from Normandy to Giverny the year our daughter was 2 turned into my sitting in the back seat with her cleaning up vomit in the rental car while our 7 year old tried valiantly to help dad navigate from the back seat.

Sometimes there are reasons why areas are accessible only by car. That is because they are boring. Really boring. After a while the windmills aren't whimsical, and hilltowns aren't charming. Just boring.

Again, you know your own travel style best. Viel Glück to you!

yes..we are looking into that . .we know and have really taken into account your advice about not driving for ours on end every day so we are making sure somehow we are going to make this work. It'll make an interesting report for others that's for sure.

I just look forward to getting away with the family for 8 weeks of an adventure

Good morning. FOund this the other day and thought it might be of use to others

http://www.italylogue.com/planning-a-trip/luggage-storage-in-italy-train-stations.html

Looks like we just might be getting somewhere.

Not sure if this is already hidden somewhere in the other posts, so sorry if it's a double posting:

Renting cars only for that specific country you are in, has three advantages:
- the steering wheel is always on the right, err proper side,
- the safety equipment is in line with respective country's regulations,
- in countries where motorways are tolled by flat fees (e.g. a fee sticker on the car like in Austria or Czech), the local rental cars usually carry those stickers so you don't pay extra as if you entered the country from abroad.

If you cross borders with a rental car (or the leased car as it had been your initial plan?), it is YOUR duty to stock up according to the local laws. Even though you may never leave the EU, these regulations are far from uniform but differ often substantially country by country.
This does not only effect security equipment but also the aforementioned motorway toll stickers or little oddities like the environmental sticker you need to drive into the city centers of most cities in Germany.
Non-compliance to either of those dozens of national oddities often incurs steep fines - and coming from abroad will make no difference at all for the cops.
The UK's AA website has a page on all those different requirements for driving around Europe. I just can't find the link now.

After two dozen trips to the US (none to Australia so far, so you may doubt my judgement to compare your specific case) I would say that driving 3-4 hours on the interstate thru rural states is MUCH different from driving 3-4 hours on a motorway thru Central Europe. The first is hardly stressful once you left the metro areas and switched on cruise control. The latter can be constant high-density travel as if you never left the metro area. Lesser populated areas like central Spain are less stressful to drive thru on motorways.
So saying that you take 4 hours on the motorway thru rural Australia before you feel road fatigue may compute to two hours in Central Europe before you feel the same effect.
In fact, 2 hours is the standard interval until the police, auto club (and the GPS you get here) suggest a break.

The final item that comes to my mind are traffic jams (and kids).
You will be travelling in high season. Just as the other 500 million people living here. It is no once-in-a-lifetime bad luck at all to get stuck in one of the super traffic jams when vacations start or end in the different countries and in between.
I'm talking about 2-4 hours in a total standstill in the middle of nowhere in a 30-50km traffic jam, with no option to leave the motorway. You may want to have beverages and some food on board to keep your kids happy (sort of happy only, I guess). This is especially crucial at geographical bottlenecks, like the Alps.
Weekends (Fridays PM, Sundays PM) are usually worst in summer, as all those going to and from their regular vacations add up to the local day tripping traffic.

Otherwise you may find prices in Europe quite affordable (well, I got a sticker shock looking up hotels for a trip to Australia in your summer) due to better exchange rate.

The web says that you pay $1.50 per liter petrol in Perth right now. Here it's roughly the same 1.50-1.70, but in Euros!
So any 100kms you drive here, will cost you appr. 30-40% more than in Australia.
Tools like viamichelin.com also give you a breakdown of the extra costs for fixed or pay-as-you-go road tolls, tunnels etc. where applicable.

Happy travels!

P.S. When you had a little trouble with Le Mans/Lemon, I had to think about the places in Australia I want to visit and which I still can't spell properly.. Copper Peedy or Cooper Pedy or what?

Thanks for that!!! Great help!!! We are holding back on the lease ...we have till the 31st of jan to decide. There is a lot to consider. London is a definite ... Hubby wants castles ...champagne houses a must ... Disney is a definite ... Paris ... Barcelona ... Lake como and bracciano and Prague and Berlin with an end point of Frankfurt ... Then we have the dots in between to see country side of france and anything else...does everyone really believe that we would be better off not leasing

Cowboy1968 makes some very good points. The AA website page to which he referred is probably here: http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/index.html

Another advantage of renting a car in each specific country is having a registration plate for that country, as opposed to a foreign plate, making it less obvious you are tourists (re the above discussion on theft from vehicles).

Ah yes, the summer traffic jams.... I'd almost forgotten, since I take the train in Europe these days, and avoid the summer. The joys of sitting in traffic going nowhere.

But the OP says they want to see the countryside, which presumably means they won't be on motorways, even if they exist everywhere they want to go. Side roads will be much slower and more stressful.

The "domestic number plate advantage" works only so far.
It does work in countries like Spain or Sweden where the plate does not give away the driver's location.

In countries like Germany or Italy you can identify the car's home province or county, respectively, easily by the plate.
So a car with "Roma" plates is as much suspect of being a tourist in Alto Adige or Verona as one with Austrian or Croatian plates.
Or a car with "M" for Munich on its plate would be a "tourist target" (which it isn't) already 20kms away at the Starnberg lakes district where the local registration starts with "STA".


It is much more common on the Continent to have a substantial percentage of cars on the road with foreign plates as the borders are close by and some who move here choose not to register here to take advantage of lower car taxes from their former country of residence. In my street in Munich alone park cars with plates from Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Italy, and one of the Baltic states.

So I would not worry too much about this item.

Plus, all rental cars I rented in Germany during the last years had little company stickers in the rear window. Plus they usually sport an extra barcode sticker behind the windshield for the check-out/-in scanners at the rental car pickup or drop off location.