lori_beth

Hi, I could really use some advice from those who have spent time in switzerland...navigating trains, cities, etc.

Here's the deal. We're flying into Paris on Thurs Aug 3, will be driving, making our way along the french riveria and then on Tues Aug 8 we were going to drive up the french/ swiss border so we can spend abt 4 days in switzerland.

I realize having a car in switzerland isn't at all necessary, esp since we're heading to the wengen.murren area, but...we could drive to lauterbrunnen from chamonix and leave the car there, which is what i'm leaning toward doing. Just b/k ditching the car in Chamonix would then mean a train from Chamonix to Lauterbrunnen, then another train, then we've gotta get ourselves to Zurich...

Current plan is as follows:

Tuesday Aug 8: drive from Nice region to Chamonix. Should take abt 5 hrs, but we'll stop a bit along the way...

Tues eve: Stay in Chamonix, explore for the day on Wed.

Wed day: Here's where it gets sketchy. Do we drive from Chamonix to Lauterbrunnen, which according to viamichelin.com will take abt 4 hours? Or do we ditch the car and take a train from Chamonix to Wengen ? Looks like we will have to make lots of connections and train time is over 6 hrs.
Our plan regardless would be to spend the remainder of wed, thur and fri in the bernese oberland region, car-free.

Sat afternoon: train to Zurich....spend evening in Zurich and leave in the morning...

I realize we're trying to squeeze a lot of places into a short amt of time, but i'm not sure what we could possibly cut. Zurich will obviously be cut short....but Wengen/Murren areas are a must...i just don't want to be hopping from one spot to another, taking my days up with travel time...

Also, if we're ditching the car, and will be visiting/hiking different areas in bernese oberland, i.e. murren, schilthorn, + other cable car rides, does it make sense to buy a swiss card or some other type of pass? We'd probably only be car-free for 2 days or so, so i'm guessing it's probably not worth it?

any advice, recs, ideas appreciated.

Obviously i need to figure this out soon as we're getting closer and closer to the dates and i need to book hotels...(nothing like waiting to the last minute)


eagerly waiting your responses.

swandav2000

Hi lori_beth,

I'm having flashbacks . . .

Here's what I posted (to you?) at another site:

If I were you, I would drop the car at the French section of the Geneva airport and take the train from there. Stop at Morges, Montreux, or Vevey if you want some time at a lakeside destination; stop at Chateau d'Oex or Gstaad if you want some rolling hills. Continue on to Wengen. The trip from the Geneva airport to Wengen via Gstaad takes about 5h30, so you could make it from Geneva to Wengen easily the same day, but stop in Gstaad for lunch at least.

Alternately, you could drop the car in Chamonix, take the Mont Blanc express to Martigny (about 1h31), then stop either at Lake Geneva or at Brig as you continue to Wengen (about 4h).

Personally I would drop Chamonix as I've heard it's not "charming" -- but of course I have this preference for Swiss charm!

I wonder what train schedule site you're using; it doesn't seem to be the best as you're uncertain of connections. If you haven't found it yet, use the Swiss rail site for schedules, www.rail.ch.

Good luck!

###

I don't know if you saw it -- if so, and it doesn't work, let me know so we can think up a new plan.

Have you investigated the cost of getting your rental car in France & dropping it in Switzerland? It can be up to $200-$300. That's why I keep saying to drop it in France (Geneva airport or Chamonix).

s

lori_beth

Yep, that was me at the other site...just thought it might be worth it to try both and get various opinions...
I'm still pretty confused though I did appreciate your suggestions.
Not so crazy abt the geneva plan as time-wise it still takes just as long as going from chamonix, it seems. maybe a little less time from geneva to wengen, but it will be more time in the car from nice to geneva. and since we'll have lots of luggage the chances of us actually getting ourselves into one of these villages for lunch (from geneva to wengen) and then back to catch the train as it continues to wengen...are slim.
....bottom line is we just don't have a lot of time to spare in btwn chamonix and wengen, so the goal is to find the best way to get to wengen.
i started toying around with different travel routes and found that we could go from nice to como, italy...stay there...and then drive the next day from italy to wengen, which seems to be around 3 hrs, not bad at all....so that's an option too,

But it looks like the drive from nice to chamonix is a beautiful one, thru the french alps, and if that's the case, perhaps it's worth it? i'm assuming nice to como is scenic too? but again, i don't know.

you're right, crossing into switzerland with the car will be another $250...but we'll easily end up spending that anyway in train fare and the truth is with the car we've got a much more flexible schedule..which is really what we need given our limited time...

any other thoughts? i do appreciate them...

enzian

Swandav has given you excellent advice. If you don't wish to go to Geneva to drop the car you can take the train from Chamonix. It is very scenic and also very easy, even with the 5 train changes. Most involve stepping off one train onto another.

If you take the car, you will have, in addition to the drop charge, the extra days' rental, and the hassle of returning the car in Zürich. With the train, you just take it right into the airport. Also---it looks to me from the map that the main driving route from Chamonix to Wengen is via Brig (thus following the same route that the train takes). I believe this route involves putting your car on the train through the Lötschberg tunnel, between Goppenstein and Kandersteg. You need to find out the cost and timing of that. The alternative for driving would be the northern route through Saanenland and Gstaad on smaller roads. Very scenic, but it will take considerably longer.

suze

<<use some advice from those who have spent time in switzerland...navigating trains, cities, etc.>>

Well that would qualify me - BUT it sounds more like you are set on doing it by car and not interested in the Geneva area, so guess I can't help after all! Good luck.

p.s. How are you going to fit "lots of luggage" into a little trunk of a rental car, or manage it if you go car-free and take the train for a few days?

swandav2000

Hi lori_beth,

Oh yes, that helps a bit! Knowing your priorities will help us find the best plan for you.

So, I'm seeing that your first priority is getting to Wengen *quickly,* right? Well, there is a discount airline, Easyjet, that flies regularly between Nice & Geneva, and then you can take the train from Geneva airport to Wengen in just over four hours. The biggest problem, though, is that Easyjet will charge a penalty for a lot of luggage.

Of course, if you take the flight from Nice to Geneva, you'll be dropping Chamonix. But you know, I just don't think that you can do Nice, Chamonix, & Wengen and do it all quickly. It's just, you know, the physics of it!

You won't have to fret about luggage on the trains, as in Switzerland you can send your luggage separately. If you send it the slow way it costs 10 chf per bag (maybe send some to the Zurich airport for your departure); if you send it the fast way it costs 20 chf per bag. Then all you take with you is a little bag.

Hmmm, hope this helps. Hope we also hear more good ideas!

s

lori_beth

Thanks guys, this really does help. I go back and forth between taking the train or not, and believe it or not, I am open to either, just don't want to be completely restricted by train schedules and long train rides. The truth is, we'd rather ditch the car and take the train thru switzerland --that way we get to sit back and enjoy the views....we're just trying to find a way to make it work. Knowing that even though we need to switch a bunch of times it's easy, helps. I was thinking, 6 train switches --logistically it seemed sorta crazy. We actually won't have a lot of luggage. Just a bag on wheels (each) and probably a backpack...

I am open to driving to Geneva, dumping the car there, taking the train to wengen. Would you say that's a quicker, easier train ride than Chamonix to Wengen? A little? Maybe there are more trains leaving from Geneva? I'm just thinking since we'll probably just spend a night in Geneva, it doesn't HAVE to be geneva...or chamonix for that matter. Someplace close to the suiss border where we can return the car and get a train to wengen is probably fine.

Keep your thoughts comin, I'm deciding for sure today!

suze

Sorry, you said "lots of luggage" above, so I was picture a big pile of suitcases. One roller bag is not a problem on the train.

lori_beth

"Also---it looks to me from the the main driving route from Chamonix to Wengen is via Brig (thus following the same route that the train takes). I believe this route involves putting your car on the train through the Lötschberg tunnel, between Goppenstein and Kandersteg. You need to find out the cost and timing of that."

Is this true???

I am getting my driving route from via michelin but i don't see "brig" mentioned it all, so i am hoping i wouldn't have to go thru brig. if i have to deal with going thru a tunnel, timing, etc than I definitely DON'T want to drive.

maybe we'll just suck it up and take the train. i just wish there was a way to travel up those french alps to the french/swiss border, hop on a train, and get to wengen in less than 6! hrs.

Perhaps it IS worth it to drive the extra hr up to Geneva and then take the train to wengen (only 3 hrs)...

One other question --there is a french side of geneva? if we wanted to return the car, and still be considered to be in "france?"

thanks again

suze

<<there is a french side of geneva? if we wanted to return the car, and still be considered to be in "france?">>

Yes. France is right there (sorry no better details) a few minutes outside the city, well to the opposite side of where's Switzerland- LOL!

Was having lunch at a nice Italian restaurant near Geneva with my friend who worked there at the time, I wouldn't have realized it except she said, "you know we're in France".

altamiro

>One other question --there is a french side of geneva? if we wanted to return the car, and still be considered to be in "france?"

There is no "French side of Geneva" but the airport has a French and a Swiss side and I believe a car rental office on either side.
There is not much to "being restricted by train schedules" in Switzerland, it is not like in some countries where 3 trains per day are considered a frequent service...

lori_beth

ok, i swear this is my last question:
(well, maybe not the LAST),

if we ditch the car in geneva, then take a train from geneva to wengen, assorted cable cars, trains in wengen/murren areas, then a train to Zurich where we go to the airport, what's the best deal? A suiss card, a suiss pass?

swandav2000

Hi again!

You know, the train route Chamonix-Martigny-Brig-Wengen is sounding nicer & nicer.

Brig is just a lovely little town, so you could stay there a few hours to break up the trip or even overnight. It has a charming, flower-bedecked old town, a castle, and it's surrounded by mountains.

This route also takes you through Kandersteg, another very charming mountain village that is worthwhile as a destination in itself. So -- even though the route is long, it will be quite scenic and will probably show you a lot of the charm of Switzerland.

Since you really don't have that much luggage, I would definitely take the train on this route.

Ah well, just so you know -- there are a lot of choices and difficult decisions, but it's impossible to make a bad one. It's ALL good, whether you go Lake Geneva or Brig -- it's ALL good!

s

Dukey

Be aware that there could possibly be a very hefty drop charge if you do NOT "ditch the car" in France...I'm surprised nobody has brought that up. The reason I do is because that alone is sometimes enough to help people make their decisions.

Whether you like it or not, somebody driving that car is not going to be able to enjoy the scenery as much as the other person as opposed to both of you sitting back on the train and enjoying it. You might want to look at it as not so much being "tied to a train schedule" as being without the worries of a car, insurance, gas prices, parking/parking charges.

For the amount of train travel you are doing I suspect point-to-point tickets might be a better deal for you and you can check that by inputting your proposed itinerary at www.railsaver.com

I agree with Swan about the train route and the attractiveness of Brig (I disagree about that "castle" which I assume is the Stockalperschloss and was disappointing when I visited).

swandav2000

Hi Dukey,

I posted this at 4.54 on 17 July:

"Have you investigated the cost of getting your rental car in France & dropping it in Switzerland? It can be up to $200-$300. That's why I keep saying to drop it in France (Geneva airport or Chamonix)."

The op responded:

"you're right, crossing into switzerland with the car will be another $250...but we'll easily end up spending that anyway in train fare . . . "

So you see the drop-off charge was addressed!

Uh oh about the Stockalperschloss -- I haven't been inside yet. Thanks for the heads up!

s

enzian

lori_beth,

The car route doesn't actually go all the way to Brig; it appears from my map that you leave the Rhone at Gampel. Cars ride on the train between Goppenstein and Kandersteg:
http://www.bls.ch/autoverlad/goppenstein_e.html
Does that seem to better match your information from via Michelin? Or perhaps they route you the other way, through Gstaad.

But it sounds like you are seriously considering leaving the car in Chamonix. Good idea. We've taken the train from there to the Berner Oberland several times and found it easy, scenic, and very enjoyable. The 10:38 departure from Chamonix has the fewest changes (5). The route between Chamonix and Martigny is a steep cogwheel railway that is amazing, especially between the French-Swiss border and Martigny. You would have a 38 minute stop in Martigny; there is a little store right there if you need refreshments. Between Martigny and Brig you enjoy views of the vineyard-covered slopes above the Rhone valley, with a few castles scattered here and there. From Brig, the train climbs the mountainside, and you have great views out to the south before the train dives into the tunnel, emerging at Kandersteg.

The whole route, there are frequent trains, and you can stop for a time anyplace along the way if you like. Changing trains with a rollerbag and a small backpack each is no problem---we do that with teenagers and have never missed a connection. We just think of it as exercise.

As for which trainpass. . . that's a whole 'nother topic, one that sparks lots of interest and debate. Check Railsaver and see what they say there, but remember that a pass will give you a discount on the Schilthorn and Jungfraujoch trips if you are doing those.

lori_beth

ok. these are all great suggestions and it sounds like chamonix to wengen wouldn't be so bad. and yes, i agree, sitting back relaxing on a train and enjoying the view is certainly preferable to one of us driving and both of us sorta stressing abt directions, etc. SO. That all being said...

Does anyone have any comments on the geneva to murren train route? is that scenic as well? i'm assuming it is, but does it compare to the chamonix-wengen train?
thanks to swandav2000 and a few others postings, i've begun to investigate that and realize that the train ride to wengen is about 1/2, closer to 3 hrs instead of 6. big difference, esp since the prior day will be a long travel day (driving on french/swiss border.)

SO. That is now what i am leaning toward (of course, since some of the OP's are now seeing the benefits of a chamonix-wengen trip)

Any comments?

suze

You need to know how many days of travel and where you are actually going by train to figure out if any type of pass would be worthwhile.

At a glance and in the most general way I think buying point-to-point may be all you need.

swandav2000

Hi again lori_beth,

The route Geneva-Muerren is only scenic if you go via Gstaad & Zweisimmen, which is the longer route and is part of the Golden Pass (www.mob.ch). The travel time for this route is 5h17 to 5h42 (the direct route is 3h58 to 4h22 and goes via Bern).

Good luck!

s