7 weeks in Europe
Feb 14th, 2015, 10:27 PM
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7 weeks in Europe
Hi Guys,
My husband and I are looking to spend 7 weeks in Europe next summer. We are starting to organise our budget now so we can start to save up for it. We are hoping to do it for $25k NZD Max for both of us ($20k would be idea though). That would allow for flights, rail passes, the odd flight and around 100 Euros a day to pay for 2/3 star accomm and food/drinks.
Do you think that sounds realistic? We are flying from New Zealand. Aiming to leave Early June and Return mid-late July.
I also want to do it all, husband has been before on Contiki but this is my first time. Basically once this trip is over I'm most likely going to be popping out kids and will not have another chance to see Europe until 20 or so years! I realise 7 weeks isn't long enough but here's what I would like to do:
Start in either London or Scotland (My friend will be living in Edinburgh, so we will be able to stay with her). Explore Scotland - possibly go to Ireland? (1 Week)
Next stop London (unless already started there) Do all the usual sightseeing, possible day trip to Stonehenge. (4 Days)
Fly to Netherlands (3 Days)
Train to Belgium (3 Days)
Train to Paris (4 days)
Train to Monaco (3 Days)
Train to Florence (3 Days)
Train to Rome (3 Days)
Train to Venice (3 Days)
Croatia? (4 nights)
Athens + Greek Islands (8 nights)
That takes us to 45 nights, have to allow 4 for travelling there and back.
Is this too much, I do really want to see it all, but also don't want to spend the whole time on a train. If so, what should we cut out?
I would love to add in Switzerland and Austria but guess we would need a few more weeks and a few more thousand dollars for that
Any advice please? First time in Europe so don't know much and have only been researching for a while so be nice!
Cheers!
My husband and I are looking to spend 7 weeks in Europe next summer. We are starting to organise our budget now so we can start to save up for it. We are hoping to do it for $25k NZD Max for both of us ($20k would be idea though). That would allow for flights, rail passes, the odd flight and around 100 Euros a day to pay for 2/3 star accomm and food/drinks.
Do you think that sounds realistic? We are flying from New Zealand. Aiming to leave Early June and Return mid-late July.
I also want to do it all, husband has been before on Contiki but this is my first time. Basically once this trip is over I'm most likely going to be popping out kids and will not have another chance to see Europe until 20 or so years! I realise 7 weeks isn't long enough but here's what I would like to do:
Start in either London or Scotland (My friend will be living in Edinburgh, so we will be able to stay with her). Explore Scotland - possibly go to Ireland? (1 Week)
Next stop London (unless already started there) Do all the usual sightseeing, possible day trip to Stonehenge. (4 Days)
Fly to Netherlands (3 Days)
Train to Belgium (3 Days)
Train to Paris (4 days)
Train to Monaco (3 Days)
Train to Florence (3 Days)
Train to Rome (3 Days)
Train to Venice (3 Days)
Croatia? (4 nights)
Athens + Greek Islands (8 nights)
That takes us to 45 nights, have to allow 4 for travelling there and back.
Is this too much, I do really want to see it all, but also don't want to spend the whole time on a train. If so, what should we cut out?
I would love to add in Switzerland and Austria but guess we would need a few more weeks and a few more thousand dollars for that
Any advice please? First time in Europe so don't know much and have only been researching for a while so be nice!
Cheers!
Feb 15th, 2015, 02:01 AM
#2
NZ$20,000 is about £10,000
My initial gut reaction is that things are going to be tight, but let's look at some options
1) Avoid mid/late July and August as prices go through the roof
2) London prices are going to sting, so you need to look at a hostel for there (or find a Kiwi friend) the http://www.yha.org.uk/ have very good hostels (dorms are available but two people rooms also) in good central position
3) London sights are mainly free, but some come in well on the 2-for-1 deal, search this site for details
4) Eat like the locals; it gets the prices down. So in Italy and France have your main meal at lunch time along with the workers M-F, you'll see signs like "Menu E13" outside restaurants as you wander around. You will also see good deals like that in Netherland and Belgium but less so, you will also find going veggie, eating ethnic tends to bring prices down (so Pakistani, Turkish, Indonisian tend to be good value in the right country). In France and Italy at lunch you will often find jug wine thrown in for free but beer and water costs, as I say "eat like the locals".
5) Monaco...... why?
6) Train prices, read up at seat61.com then buy early. PalenQ has a bunch of good ideas on train deals, if he does not come along, search out his name on this site
My initial gut reaction is that things are going to be tight, but let's look at some options
1) Avoid mid/late July and August as prices go through the roof
2) London prices are going to sting, so you need to look at a hostel for there (or find a Kiwi friend) the http://www.yha.org.uk/ have very good hostels (dorms are available but two people rooms also) in good central position
3) London sights are mainly free, but some come in well on the 2-for-1 deal, search this site for details
4) Eat like the locals; it gets the prices down. So in Italy and France have your main meal at lunch time along with the workers M-F, you'll see signs like "Menu E13" outside restaurants as you wander around. You will also see good deals like that in Netherland and Belgium but less so, you will also find going veggie, eating ethnic tends to bring prices down (so Pakistani, Turkish, Indonisian tend to be good value in the right country). In France and Italy at lunch you will often find jug wine thrown in for free but beer and water costs, as I say "eat like the locals".
5) Monaco...... why?
6) Train prices, read up at seat61.com then buy early. PalenQ has a bunch of good ideas on train deals, if he does not come along, search out his name on this site
Feb 15th, 2015, 02:17 AM
#3
Ok, washing hung out
Prices in Croatia (I'm assuming that is a generic Dalmatian coast thing, rather than that country specific...) can have great prices and Greece will still be in some financial confusion then so prices to stay will be low. Since this is towards the end of the holiday the heat will be higher and the crowds in Athens will start to rise as will the pollution. If it were me I'd focus on the islands rather than Athens but that is just me. Basically money will go further here than anywhere else, and while pre-booking can be a great deal, you can still find little old ladies on the docks offering rooms for the night.
To get a good idea on prices uses bahn.de which is the website for the German rail system but has tried to pick up most of continental Europe as a service. It might be worth checking trains to Belgium from London as well flights from Stansted (the cheepo London hub).
In terms of cheepo airlins out of London, the focus needs to be on Easyjet and Ryanair, R is famous for trying to be nice to customers after a generation of not caring a rat's arse. Both charge for extras so take care and read the conditions carefully.
Prices in Croatia (I'm assuming that is a generic Dalmatian coast thing, rather than that country specific...) can have great prices and Greece will still be in some financial confusion then so prices to stay will be low. Since this is towards the end of the holiday the heat will be higher and the crowds in Athens will start to rise as will the pollution. If it were me I'd focus on the islands rather than Athens but that is just me. Basically money will go further here than anywhere else, and while pre-booking can be a great deal, you can still find little old ladies on the docks offering rooms for the night.
To get a good idea on prices uses bahn.de which is the website for the German rail system but has tried to pick up most of continental Europe as a service. It might be worth checking trains to Belgium from London as well flights from Stansted (the cheepo London hub).
In terms of cheepo airlins out of London, the focus needs to be on Easyjet and Ryanair, R is famous for trying to be nice to customers after a generation of not caring a rat's arse. Both charge for extras so take care and read the conditions carefully.
Feb 15th, 2015, 02:30 AM
#4
Estimating costs for other people's holidays is tough. But I'd estimate the following
London/Venice costs £175 a day if booked early
Rome/Paris/Belgium/Netherlands/Ireland costs £140 a day
Travel between varies by distance but lets guess at £75 per person
Flights need extra trains etc so £125 per person
Croatia/Greece £100 a day
Ireland 1 week =£980
Flight =£250
London (4 Days)=£700
Flight =£250
Netherlands (3 Days)=£420
Train=£150
Belgium (3 Days)=£420
Train=£150
Paris (4 days)=£560
Train =£150
anywhere but Monaco (3 Days)=£420
Train =£150
Florence (3 Days)=£420
Train =£150
Rome (3 Days) =£420
Train =£150
to Venice (3 Days)=£525
To Croatia =£150
Croatia? (4 nights) =£400
To Islands =£150
Athens + Greek Islands (8 nights)=£800
So about £7800
Now some will same I've over egged some of the costs and under egged others, but looks possible and my gut was wrong
London/Venice costs £175 a day if booked early
Rome/Paris/Belgium/Netherlands/Ireland costs £140 a day
Travel between varies by distance but lets guess at £75 per person
Flights need extra trains etc so £125 per person
Croatia/Greece £100 a day
Ireland 1 week =£980
Flight =£250
London (4 Days)=£700
Flight =£250
Netherlands (3 Days)=£420
Train=£150
Belgium (3 Days)=£420
Train=£150
Paris (4 days)=£560
Train =£150
anywhere but Monaco (3 Days)=£420
Train =£150
Florence (3 Days)=£420
Train =£150
Rome (3 Days) =£420
Train =£150
to Venice (3 Days)=£525
To Croatia =£150
Croatia? (4 nights) =£400
To Islands =£150
Athens + Greek Islands (8 nights)=£800
So about £7800
Now some will same I've over egged some of the costs and under egged others, but looks possible and my gut was wrong
Feb 15th, 2015, 04:55 AM
#6
>>Is this too much, <<
YES!!
>>I do really want to see it <u>all</u>,<<
Not possible to see it <u>all</u> in seven years so why try it in 7 weeks
>>but also don't want to spend the whole time on a train. <<
That is what you've locked yourselves into.
You can see a wee bit of Scotland in a week -- or a wee bit of Ireland, not both. 4 days (really 3.5 days) and including a day trip means you'll see maybe 10% of the major sites in London if you go at a dead run. You need to account for travel times -- at least half a day every time you move and sometimes an entire day. Plus all that travel GREATLY increases your costs.
You have seven weeks so slow down just a bit -- I'm not saying stay a week everyplace, London, and Paris could easily fill a week each.
You need to cut back not add . . . And drop Monaco
YES!!
>>I do really want to see it <u>all</u>,<<
Not possible to see it <u>all</u> in seven years so why try it in 7 weeks
>>but also don't want to spend the whole time on a train. <<
That is what you've locked yourselves into.
You can see a wee bit of Scotland in a week -- or a wee bit of Ireland, not both. 4 days (really 3.5 days) and including a day trip means you'll see maybe 10% of the major sites in London if you go at a dead run. You need to account for travel times -- at least half a day every time you move and sometimes an entire day. Plus all that travel GREATLY increases your costs.
You have seven weeks so slow down just a bit -- I'm not saying stay a week everyplace, London, and Paris could easily fill a week each.
You need to cut back not add . . . And drop Monaco
Feb 15th, 2015, 05:00 AM
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About 50 euros per day per person is the absolute minimum for lodging and food as well as in-city transit in europe (based on backpacking websites). This is not 2.3 * hotels - but hostels and eating lots of picnics and food from markets rather than sit down meals. Also -transit between cities (train or plane) would be on top of that - as would airfare from NZ. So I fear your budget is unrealistic/absolutely bare bones - and doesn't seem to match the type of trip you want.
(My DD went with 2 friends a couple of summer ago for 6 weeks. She traveled modest hotels but no hostels, no shopping and very minimal nightlife and it cost her about $8K US - including intercity transit in europe but not transatlantic.
I would have look now a the cost for the type of trip you want (modest hotel costs, some sit down meals, entrance fees to sights - the Tower of London alone is about $25 - and the chance for a beer or wine at a modest cafe some evenings.
You really need to think about how you want to travel and then build a budget from that up - don't make any assumptions based on your local prices.
(My DD went with 2 friends a couple of summer ago for 6 weeks. She traveled modest hotels but no hostels, no shopping and very minimal nightlife and it cost her about $8K US - including intercity transit in europe but not transatlantic.
I would have look now a the cost for the type of trip you want (modest hotel costs, some sit down meals, entrance fees to sights - the Tower of London alone is about $25 - and the chance for a beer or wine at a modest cafe some evenings.
You really need to think about how you want to travel and then build a budget from that up - don't make any assumptions based on your local prices.
Feb 15th, 2015, 08:40 AM
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I think your hoping for 2/3 star lodging and food/drinks at 100 euros a day in June is not at all realistic. Check out the prices for some 2/3 star hotels in the cities you wish to visit and you will get a better idea of prices.
Feb 15th, 2015, 10:02 AM
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Thanks guys this is really helpful. Sorry should have been clearer that is 100 euros a day each, so 200 euros for both of us a day to pay for accommodation and food. Is that realistic? Im vegetarian and not a big eater. We would go out for the odd meal but would be more than happy to make our own or buy from bakery/stalls etc. We are also okay with staying in a private room in a hostel.
Okay, will take monaco off the list!!
Thanks bilboburgler - the cost break down helps a lot.
Okay, will take monaco off the list!!
Thanks bilboburgler - the cost break down helps a lot.
Feb 15th, 2015, 10:58 AM
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I'd start at whether the itinerary you last out meets your needs. As others have said, it eats up half a day to a full day each time you change locations (as well as eating up money). If you want 3 days somewhere, you need to schedule 4 nights. Cutting a few destinations will give you time to actually explore some of these marvelous places and will save you money. When I plan, I always think about the proportion of travel days to seeing/doing/experiencing days. I figure any day I'm changing locations is a travel day so anything I accomplish in terms of experiencing a place is a bonus. Also, consider that the places you have listed vary widely in what they have to offer. London, Paris and Rome are places you could spend weeks and not run out of things to do and see.
I'm glad you have cut Monaco. I'd consider cutting any other places that aren't absolute "musts." So consider eliminating Croatia (since you seem unsure of it) and perhaps Belgium.
It's great that you are getting started early on your planning. Consider going in the late spring April/May or early fall Sept/Oct for better prices and less crowded sites.
I'm glad you have cut Monaco. I'd consider cutting any other places that aren't absolute "musts." So consider eliminating Croatia (since you seem unsure of it) and perhaps Belgium.
It's great that you are getting started early on your planning. Consider going in the late spring April/May or early fall Sept/Oct for better prices and less crowded sites.
Feb 15th, 2015, 11:02 AM
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Thanks for the clarification on your budget. Allowing for hostel stays should help as well.
Besides Monaco, I would also cut Belgium unless you have a strong desire to visit there. It is a lovely country but I think you would enjoy adding more time in some of your other locations. I would try to figure which places are your main priorities and stick with those. By cutting some of the travel and train time and expenses, I think you can have a more enjoyable trip.
Besides Monaco, I would also cut Belgium unless you have a strong desire to visit there. It is a lovely country but I think you would enjoy adding more time in some of your other locations. I would try to figure which places are your main priorities and stick with those. By cutting some of the travel and train time and expenses, I think you can have a more enjoyable trip.
Feb 15th, 2015, 01:06 PM
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If doing those several long-distance trains check out some kind of Eurailpass that lets you choose which trains to hop once there not book in stone for a discount months in advance and even then the pass may not be much more expensive and if over 25 yrs old the pass is first class - a much much more relaxed ride, especially for folks porting around luggage - lots of empty seats in first class and more luggage room vs as typically lot more crowded 2nd class.
You could use the pass to take boats from Italy to Greece with the basic boat fare covered by the pass and even free sleeping berths on some services - take a cruise and save a day at a hotel cost.
For lots of great info on European trains, passes, etc I always spotlight these IMO superb surces: www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com (download their free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of rail itineraries in each country; and www.seat61.com - the latter an expert that makes its name on being expert on discounted tickets.
You can also take overnight trains a lot of time to dave time and cover long distances and again save on the cost of a hotel.
You could use the pass to take boats from Italy to Greece with the basic boat fare covered by the pass and even free sleeping berths on some services - take a cruise and save a day at a hotel cost.
For lots of great info on European trains, passes, etc I always spotlight these IMO superb surces: www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com (download their free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of rail itineraries in each country; and www.seat61.com - the latter an expert that makes its name on being expert on discounted tickets.
You can also take overnight trains a lot of time to dave time and cover long distances and again save on the cost of a hotel.
Feb 15th, 2015, 08:18 PM
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Okay thanks for so many helpful replies!
Thinking of an amended itinerary as follows:
Scotland (Mostly Edinburgh - staying with friends who will be living there - will keep costs low)
1 Week inc night to train to London
Overnight train to London: 5 nights (day trip to Stonehenge + typical sightseeing)
Fly? to Netherlands (4 nights)
Train or fly? to Paris (5 nights)
Overnight train from Paris to Nice (3 nights inc. night train from paris)
Train Nice to Ventimiglia - Day trip to Pisa (1 night)
Train Ventimiglia to Florence - (3 nights)
Train to Rome (3 nights)
Train to Venice (3 nights)
Ferry from Venice to Croatia (4 nights)
Ferry from Croatia(dubrovnik) to Athens/Greek Islands (7 nights)
Fly home from Athens? (depending on flight costs)
Does this look better? Any recommendations for substituting travel options.
Thinking of an amended itinerary as follows:
Scotland (Mostly Edinburgh - staying with friends who will be living there - will keep costs low)
1 Week inc night to train to London
Overnight train to London: 5 nights (day trip to Stonehenge + typical sightseeing)
Fly? to Netherlands (4 nights)
Train or fly? to Paris (5 nights)
Overnight train from Paris to Nice (3 nights inc. night train from paris)
Train Nice to Ventimiglia - Day trip to Pisa (1 night)
Train Ventimiglia to Florence - (3 nights)
Train to Rome (3 nights)
Train to Venice (3 nights)
Ferry from Venice to Croatia (4 nights)
Ferry from Croatia(dubrovnik) to Athens/Greek Islands (7 nights)
Fly home from Athens? (depending on flight costs)
Does this look better? Any recommendations for substituting travel options.
Feb 15th, 2015, 10:31 PM
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I am always confused when people throw a country in an itinerary. Usually I believe it is an after-though to add one more country on their check-list than a decision based on specific desires to see or do something/somewhere specific. Where you have in mind in Netherlands? Adding those 4 nights somewhere else on your itinerary might ease it a bit. For example you mention Athens+Greek Islands for only 7 nights, I don't think this is enough for more than Athens+one small-ish (easily connected to Athens) island. You could add those nights in Greece and add one more mainland or island destination.
Or add more time in Croatia? You may want to allow a few relaxing days towards the end of the trip too...
I usually take 4+weeks' long trip once or twice per year and I focus on one country and travel on a much lower pace, but I find that after 10 days-2 weeks I need to slow down and allow a few "off" days every now and then. Are you sure you will be abole to cope with such a fast-paced itinerary?
Or add more time in Croatia? You may want to allow a few relaxing days towards the end of the trip too...
I usually take 4+weeks' long trip once or twice per year and I focus on one country and travel on a much lower pace, but I find that after 10 days-2 weeks I need to slow down and allow a few "off" days every now and then. Are you sure you will be abole to cope with such a fast-paced itinerary?
Feb 15th, 2015, 10:58 PM
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Hi mariha2912
Ah yes, you may be correct about the ferry it seems the review I read was from 2011 it must not run anymore. Perhaps we should train?
Originally I was going to leave out Netherlands, but then thought it would be good to go to Amsterdam, if only for a few nights. As you can read in my original post I will most likely not be returning to Europe until I am old and grey! It would be cool to see Amsterdam while we are still young! Yes I am starting to think 7 nights will not be enough for Greece, but just having a look online at prices and most budget accommodation is very reasonable so wondering if we can stretch it out for a few more nights in Greece.
I think we will cope okay with a busy itinerary. We are both very active and work in extremely busy, hands on jobs. So this will still be a holiday for us, even though very fast paced!
Ah yes, you may be correct about the ferry it seems the review I read was from 2011 it must not run anymore. Perhaps we should train?
Originally I was going to leave out Netherlands, but then thought it would be good to go to Amsterdam, if only for a few nights. As you can read in my original post I will most likely not be returning to Europe until I am old and grey! It would be cool to see Amsterdam while we are still young! Yes I am starting to think 7 nights will not be enough for Greece, but just having a look online at prices and most budget accommodation is very reasonable so wondering if we can stretch it out for a few more nights in Greece.
I think we will cope okay with a busy itinerary. We are both very active and work in extremely busy, hands on jobs. So this will still be a holiday for us, even though very fast paced!
Feb 16th, 2015, 12:05 AM
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Even when there was a ferry from Croatia to Greece, and I doubt it was running as recently as 2011, it didn't go as far as Athens (Piraeus). The nearest it came to Athens was Patras in the Peloponnese, requiring another several hours by bus to reach the city. Ferry travel over long distances is time consuming when you consider ferries cruise at about +/- 30 mph, and maybe that's why it doesn't run anymore.
Check on direct flights to Athens from Zagreb or Dubrovnik. Some islands (e.g. Santorini) in the Aegean Sea take as long as 8 hours or more by ferry from Athens, making flights an attractive alternative.
Check on direct flights to Athens from Zagreb or Dubrovnik. Some islands (e.g. Santorini) in the Aegean Sea take as long as 8 hours or more by ferry from Athens, making flights an attractive alternative.
Feb 16th, 2015, 08:18 AM
#19
Dubrovnik is only one of a series of ex-Venetian colonies along the coast. Yes it gets the most photos, but it also gets the most behomothes of ships vomiting up fat tourists with micky mouse ears on (etc) I'd also look at Trogir and Split (where the Diocletian Palace is), for me I'd rather spend time here and maybe even catch hydrofoils out to one of the Islands (I like Bol on Brac but others like Hvar on the next island over), they give you a good idea of what to expect in Greece.
Yes fly or else check if you can still take a ferry down to Puglia (another nice area) and then another to Greek Islands, must be so slow...
Yes fly or else check if you can still take a ferry down to Puglia (another nice area) and then another to Greek Islands, must be so slow...
Feb 16th, 2015, 08:36 AM
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I wouldn't have cut Belgium--Bruges and Ghent are very nice. And (without considering budget) I would certainly cut Croatia and spend more time in Italy, particularly Rome.
Do you really mean Ventimiglia? Pisa would be one very long day trip from there and back. Perhaps you meant Viareggio?
Do you really mean Ventimiglia? Pisa would be one very long day trip from there and back. Perhaps you meant Viareggio?
