rtwin80days

Hi,

My husband and I have got an opportunity to travel to Europe in first week of September 2016 for 15 full days and nights (not counting the day/night of flights to and fro NYC).

We are both in early 30s, vegetarians, teetotalers. I love nature, culture, history & art, food, landscapes, immersing in local culture, taking long walks in the city centre, cooking classes, cycling, etc. He is not much into museums, art or overdose of history although he would like to see the most famous of those whilst there. He loves local culture, food, nature, lakes, music, food, hiking, skiing, etc. His job being super intense, he would like to de-stress and relax in the trip. We are active people and cover the ground, but some time to take it easy every once in a while would be nice.

I have travelled a bit in Europe (Paris, Frankfurt, Berlin, Amsterdam, Vienna, Salzburg and day trips within Salzkammergut region, Venice, Florence and day trip to Sienna, San Gimignano, etc, Rome, Perugia, Cortona, Assisi, Amalfi, Madrid, Segovia, Seville, Cordoba, Granada, Barcelona). I love Europe, especially Italy and I love travelling. My husband hasn’t travelled much in life in general and hasn’t been to Europe (except staying in London for work for few months couple of times), but he is excited about traveling.

I am terribly confused where we should head to. I would like to avoid going to places I have already visited, but I also want his first trip to Europe to be superb. He is keen to visit Paris, and I also think it's a good opener to Europe. If Paris works out to be the beginning of our trip, I guess I could throw in couple of day trips from Paris and then head to south of France for the remaining time. Probably fly back from Nice. On the other hand, combining Paris with some bit of Switzerland / Belgium / Northern Italy would be nice as well. We want to take a trip to Greece as well at some point. Not sure whether it's the right time to go there. Frankly, I'm fighting my instincts as 5 different trip ideas in different parts of Italy are floating in my head. We would use public transport for the most part, but open to renting a car for few days if it leads to a better experience.

I would be glad to receive some itinerary ideas.

rtwin80days

Oops. Is there any way to add one more country to the post above? I definitely had Switzerland added in there. I don't know how it didn't end up in the post even though it showed in the preview.

greg

It is not necessary to tag countries accurately. People understand your goals by reading the text. I suspect you have many dead-on-arrival options that is filling up your mind. Many plans that sound good get easily tossed away after you have sketched in reality and constraints: how to arrive and leave Europe, how you connect them, accommodation availability considering market pricing - that is some places are significantly more expensive/cheaper/available depending on the days, opening time/days you will be hitting each destinations. Once you have sketched in actual constraints, you would probably have less options that you have imagined. You will be recommended many different itineraries, but you have to sort through if they can be integrated properly. So, in the end, you need a way to separate essences from the fluffs irrespective of whether you have done it all by yourself or gotten many divergent itinerary ideas.

It would probably take you longer if you work linearly ganging one place after another thinking you come up with "best" itinerary by following rules. You would probably reach itineraries meeting you expectation faster by comparing sided by side five or six different itineraries you put together quickly. It is not that any one of them would work, but by studying several options, with quick travel time/cost estimates by using tools such as www.bahn.com or www.viamichelin.com, and www.booking.com, for example, you will get a sense of which routing is time consuming and infrequent, which destination would be difficult to find accommodation on certain week, which entry/exit airports are less expensive, which return trip requires you to wake up at super early in the morning, etc. to progressively reduce the number of options until you have reduce to a few you can accept choosing any.

You also have to consider how likely you would travel to Europe again. How likely is that your husband would be hooked to travel again as opposed to fed up having to do things differently.

September is still a great time to visit Greece, especially the later half just after the peak season.

ElendilPickle

>>If Paris works out to be the beginning of our trip, I guess I could throw in couple of day trips from Paris and then head to south of France for the remaining time.<<

If your husband really wants to go there, and you both want to relax, I think this sounds like a good plan.

Lee Ann

PalenQ

We would use public transport for the most part, but open to renting a car for few days if it leads to a better experience.>

some great IMO sites for planning a European rail trip: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - check the latter's online European Planning & Rail Guide for lots of suggested rail itineraries in those countries.

On the other hand, combining Paris with some bit of Switzerland / Belgium / Northern Italy would be nice as well.>

could be OK is you drop Belgium or northern Italy

Paris - 4 days

Switzerland - 7 days - hitting Alpine wonderlands like the Jungrfrau Region around Interlaken

Northern Italy - hit Lake Maggiore and Stresa - not far from Switzerland and then Milan and fly out of there.

Boolanger

You have traveled more than most in Europe and are asking for an itinerary for you and your husband? Seems odd to me, particularly in light of your several experiences there and familiarity with your husband. Then again I'm still working on imagining two tee totaling vegetarians who like to cook. To me, dining without wine is like taking a blind man to the movies, but that doesn't really answer your question does it.

Therefore, consider Santa Margherita Ligure in Italy where you have easy train access to Cinque Terre. SML and nearby places would meet many of your desires for "nature, culture, history & art, food, landscapes, immersing in local culture, taking long walks in the city centre, cooking classes, cycling, etc." Day hiking from SML to Portofino should also be of interest to you.

Fussgaenger

"He is keen to visit Paris, and I also think it's a good opener to Europe, but I also want his first trip to Europe to be superb."

If you want to go again later as a couple, do keep his interests firmly in mind as you plan. Let's assume Paris - but "Paris-lite" since "He is not much into museums, art or overdose of history..."

"He loves local culture, food, nature, lakes, music, food, hiking, skiing, etc."

In September, let's go with hiking rather than skiing.

"I would like to avoid going to places I have already visited..."

You tagged this for Germany because Germany is an option, right? If you've only seen Berlin, you've hardly set foot in Germany. Get on the TGV at Paris Est and in less than 2 hours you'll be in Saarbruecken Germany. From there it's a short trip to several very scenic areas with traditional old-world towns, centuries-old half-timbered homes, castles, hiking trails, etc.

The Mosel Valley (which includes Germany's oldest city, Trier)- http://www.mosel-reisefuehrer.de/17-...ights-englisch

The Middle Rhine Valley:
http://www.welterbe-mittelrheintal.d...php?id=318&L=3

Rheinsteig trail: http://www.romantic-germany.info/Rhe...il.4134.0.html

Rhine Castle Trail (Rheinburgenweg) - http://www.romantic-germany.info/Rhe...eg.6751.0.html

So many great destinations here... strongly suggest you visit Oberwesel for the Wine Market Festival if you want a peek at local culture (very civilized - NOT an Oktoberfest.) Sept. 10 is a big day with the "night of 1000 fires" fireworks show, followed by a parade on Sunday, with music and street events over 4 days:

http://www.oberwesel.de/highlights/weinmarkt/

http://www.oberwesel.de/uploads/pics/P1060485.JPG

rtwin80days

Thanks for your patient responses.

UPDATE: We have zeroed in on flying off from Nyc on Friday 2nd Sep evening after office hours and flying back on Sunday 18th Sep. This way, we get one extra day of Labor Day public holiday. Able to eliminate northern Italy out of the trip, but Paris + south of France / Switzerland / Belgium, all 3 combinations sound good.

Greg, I haven't forgotten practicality completely, but I do wish for his first trip to be totally fabulous. I'm always raving about my travels and get all floaty in the memories and it may have raised the bar in his eyes. You think Greece would be a good idea for our dates? Weather, crowd, prices, etc?

Lee Ann, this is my default plan if nothing else stands out. If you've been to these areas before, how would you frame the itinerary?

PalenQ, by Switzerland / Belgium / Northern Italy, I meant Paris and Switzerland or Paris and Belgium or Paris and Northern Italy. Paris + Switzerland sounds good. Switzerland and Germany are 2 countries I have read the least about and hence would like your ideas on Paris + Switzerland itinerary.

Boolanger, your reaction is not a new one for us. It can be difficult to have such constraints and still enjoy local cuisine and culture in Europe. But I must proudly share I had the most amazing time in my one week long vegetarian cooking classes at an 18th century farm house near the border or Umbria and Tuscany couple of years back. I guess we have almost decided to cut out Italy from this trip for the sake of narrowing options. Although, spending the time solely in Sicily or Puglia would have been nice as well..........ok I'm trailing off again! See, that's the problem. I have traveled a bit and hence, I'm finding it more difficult because everything is so awesome in its unique way! It's the "problem of plenty".

Fussgaenger, what would be your ideas for Paris itinerary considering my husband's interests and that I have been there once (for hardly ~4 days, but still!)? You have given interesting ideas about Germany which I'm reading up now on.

janisj

>>but I do wish for his first trip to be totally fabulous<<

Then don't drag him all over hell and gone - pick three places TOTAL. You have from mid day the 3rd (and likely jet lagged) thru the 17th. That is just 13.5 days

Paris + south of France / Switzerland / Belgium is just much too much, much too much packing and moving and too hectic for a first timer being dragged around on the 'perfect' holiday.

Spend a week in Paris and then another week in the south of France, or split a week between a couple of places in Switzerland; or maybe split a week between somewhere in the south of France w/ one destination in Switzerland; or a week for Belgium (Bruge/Antwerp/Brussels) and maybe Strasbourg

PalenQ

Paris + south of France / Switzerland / Belgium is just much too much, much too much packing and moving and too hectic for a first timer being dragged around on the 'perfect' holiday.>

Drop Belgium and it is feasible if not ideal:

Paris 4 nights (the idea that you need several days in each place or it is not worth it is very subjective - I get tired of a big crowded city like Paris after 3-4 days and the French Riviera is more for relaxing and doing little day trips along the coast.

Riviera 4 nights

Northern Italy - take train to Lake Maggiore from Nice - stay in Stresa, a lovely resort town - just off shore are the three famous Borromean Islands each with a different neat thing on them - boats scoot there all the time from Stresa

Say just two nights in Stresa- one day is enough for those three sweet islands.

Take train to Switzerland for last days - fly out of Zurich. Head for the Jungfrau Region near Interlaken for the essence of the Swiss Alps and many varied things to see and do.

This includes travel time by train in between.

can be done - a little rushed by very very feasible IMO and again this is all subjective about how much time you MUST spend in each stop - do what suits your travel style and wishes.

rtwin80days

Oh dear, looks like my explanation went unnoticed. I do mean 3 different itinerary possibilities wherein Paris is the constant and the remaining part of the trip is taken up in Switzerland OR Belgium OR South of France. I hope I have made myself amply clear now.

"/" = OR, not AND.

PalenQ

. I do mean 3 different itinerary possibilities wherein Paris is the constant and the remaining part of the trip is taken up in Switzerland OR Belgium OR South of France.>

Weather can start getting foul IME in Belgium in September but the French Riviera should be just fine - huge crowds have magically dissipated after the last weekend in Aug/first in Sep (though still a fair number of tourists but not the thundering hoards of August) -

Belgium is closer though to Paris and weather could be just fine too - you never know - Bruges, Gent, Antwerp and even Brussels -not much liked my many here it seems but IMO an interesting if not the most old-world dream place in Europe - for a couple of days.

On the Riviera you can base in any of several places - Nice, Antibes, Villefranche, Cannes, hill towns like St Paul-du-Vence, etc - they are all connected by frequent trains and or buses - I'd say Riviera is more relaxing than those Belgian cities - natural beauty is a signature feature of the French Riviera.

Fussgaenger

"Fussgaenger, what would be your ideas for Paris itinerary considering my husband's interests and that I have been there once (for hardly ~4 days, but still!)? You have given interesting ideas about Germany which I'm reading up now on."

I'm not qualified to comment on Paris or what you might do there.

If you visit that part of Germany I suggested, you can fly out of Frankfurt Hahn airport (nowhere near Frankfurt but not far from Cochem or Trier) or out of LUX (Luxembourg, very close to Trier) or out of Frankfurt International to more distant destinations in Europe.

Cochem by the way is one of my favorite places in Europe for the sort of things your husband is into.

http://www.der-takt.de/typo3temp/_pr...087e83a8d1.jpg

Do the hike to nearby Burg Eltz Castle from Moselkern station:

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...6bfc1e8b96.jpg

http://www.bensbauernhof.com/burgeltzfrommoselkern.html

PalenQ

taking long walks in the city centre>

husband's wish list - Paris is great for that and I am one that walks all over European towns - what you pass walking in between places is oft as interesting as the destination sights themselves IME.

And Paris is great for this - when I have time I'll outline some of my favorite Paris walks.

janisj

>>Paris is the constant and the remaining part of the trip is taken up in Switzerland OR Belgium OR South of France. I hope I have made myself amply clear now. <<

Oh I am sooooooo glad

September is a wonderful time in any of those locations. Still 'summery' but seldom too hot. Not sure what Pal means by foul weather in early September. But you have a tough decision - any of the options could make for your 'fabulous'/'perfect' experience.

From my earlier post>>Spend a week in Paris and then another week in the south of France, or split a week between a couple of places in Switzerland; or maybe split a week between somewhere in the south of France w/ one destination in Switzerland; or a week for Belgium (Bruge/Antwerp/Brussels) and maybe Strasbourg<<

If it was me at that time of year -- I'd possibly choose Paris + Belgium or Paris + the south of France. Provence will be still warm and sunny but the summer hordes will have left.

I love the beer and food in Belgium, I love the wine and food in the south of France.

rtwin80days

We might have to shift the travel dates by two weeks. Fly off on fri the 16th sep and fly back sun the oct 2nd. Should that change any destination suggestions, weather-wise or otherwise?

Secondly, any opinions on current safety situation in Europe for tourists intending to travel in near future?

PalenQ

Weather-wise start in north and work south.

You are less safe at home if in the U.s. with our spate of shootings and gun violence than anywhere in Europe IMO.

AtlTravelr

Paris + South of France should fill ALL your requirements. With 2 weeks you could pick 4 spots to stay - 5/6 nights in Paris, 3 days in another spot and the remaining time in Nice and Provence. It should be a lovely time of year, maybe a little rain here and there but much better than being too hot. A mid size town between Paris and Nice such as Lyon would be a nice stop for a few days but I'm definitely prejudiced as we are currently spending a month here and love it - great place to walk and bike along the rivers. You would only need a car to drive around Provence but could train between your other destinations. For food, I like the options in France so much better for vegetarians than in Switzerland, but admit I've not traveled in Switzerland very much. I'm also partial to the 1 country per trip style of traveling to get more of a feel for the history, culture, language, etc.

As far as safety in Europe, there is nothing that would currently keep us from traveling in Europe.

rtwin80days

Thanks all. So it's final. Fly off from Nyc on 16th sep and fly back on 2nd oct.

More importantly, for now, we are keeping it simple. Only France. No Switzerland or any other country. Although it's easier said than done given so many possibilities within France.

I guess I have some preferences in mind within France and should post a fresh post.

Melnq8

Boolanger -

<To me, dining without wine is like taking a blind man to the movies>

Congratulations, you've become my new Fodor's quote for my profile.